------- (( How do you know your team of lvl 100+ will get you killed ))

[MissMaul]

When you're an adventurer, and you can heal for more than the doctor can. (True story. He was healing for 25 at..level 50.)

[Canto]

The point was that the soldier can easily delete the buffs they don't want; complaining about buffs that are easily removed makes me apprehensive that the soldier may not know how to remove them. I died twice that mission when the soldier wouldnt wait for me to finish mezzing adjacent adds before attacking the one already mezzed; triggered aggro from all including a veteran trox enf. The next time we went up a lift, he did it again and the whole team died even after I told everyone to stay down until I gave the "all clear."

Thanks for the advice, point well-taken; actually dont care much about pets except for solo, more interested in area mezz sooner, better scares/speeches and higher nukes and charms (also getting to stuns sooner would be nice ). Non MP buffed pets are useless when lvl 100ish in a 180 mission as you know. Even MP buffed are pretty much fodder.

[Aristaeus]

Originally posted by RedRazors
Don't know if this has been mentioned....

When you enter a team, and you see an mp or a nt wearing nelebs robe. Get some armour you silly **$%^&*

<snip>
I speak as a doc, I'm sick of seeing these little fellas crumple at my feet before I even have time to target them.

Speaking as a doctor who is currently wearing one there are instances when it is a useful item (like needing 8 points more for complete heal and such)

[Skebet]

Would you rather have an MP in neleb's who can cast mochams on a moments notice or an MP in tank armor who has to take it off, put on neleb's, cast your mochams, then get some outside buffs to put the tank armor back on?

There is a time and place for everything, including Neleb's (and i just got rid of it, but would have been gimped without it for a long time).

cheers
amis

[Redrazors]

At the end of the day I'd rather have an alive mp than a dead mp.

But I'm only adding my observations as a doc, everytime I come across someone in nelebs at lvl100+ they're the weak point in the team.

[___________Luuvchild]

- when you enter the mission and find the other 5 wearing wolf shape going "woof grawrls"

- your lvl 100 nt got mc mocham and a new recompiler.

[Canto]

Originally posted by ilumo
-

your lvl 100 nt got mc mocham and a new recompiler.

I'm afraid I don't get this one; sounds like a desirable teammate to me if they have some skill and there's someone in the group who can cast mezz to reset aggro.

[Skebet]

Heys Red, I hear where you're coming from. Just glad to see someone thinking about us :-)

cheers

amis

[Autocratt]

Originally posted by Amis
Would you rather have an MP in neleb's who can cast mochams on a moments notice or an MP in tank armor who has to take it off, put on neleb's, cast your mochams, then get some outside buffs to put the tank armor back on?

ROFL, I am not sure which person would get me killed faster, the one wearing Neleb's or the one who blew the IP on strength to put on tank armor and still needs outside buffs to get it back on.

Sorry, but you've got to be kidding me and I'm not sure where to start here? Mochams last one hour so when in the world would you need mochams on a moment's notice, they're not like heals or TMS. And if an MP is smart enough to know to switch Neleb's for decent armor after casting mochams, why would he pick an armor that: 1) needs outside buffs to get back on, and 2) choose tank armor that needs str and has a nano penalty. When a MP (other than Atrox I guess) has enough Str to equip tank armor, he/she won't be needing Neleb's to cast mochams.

Again, sorry to pick on you but this is too funny.

[Canto]

ROFL, and I just don't know where to start here, at anyone who thinks ONE HOUR is long enough to complete most missions at mid level, and at anyone who thinks any decent back armor worn by a level 100ish player, especially an int/psy player, is going to be hot-swappable. LOL. Sorry to pick on you but this is just too funny.

[Autocratt]

Originally posted by Suzsu
ROFL, and I just don't know where to start here, at anyone who thinks ONE HOUR is long enough to complete most missions at mid level,

OK now you're getting sad. So you'd rather do your two to three hour mission with Neleb's on all the time and absorb hundreds if not thousands more points of damage than to switch to decent armor. Causing you to possibly die, use up more Doc nanochargers or causing you to hide and afraid to nuke/shoot. Are you running ahead and mezzing the mobs alone in your Neleb's?
(Hey why are you still wearing Neleb's after you cast Mochams? - Well I gotta get ready now cuz they expire just an hour and 50 mobs later. ROFL)

Originally posted by Suzsu
and at anyone who thinks any decent back armor worn by a level 100ish player, especially an int/psy player, is going to be hot-swappable. LOL. Sorry to pick on you but this is just too funny.

OMG are you using those worthless Nano cloaks (int/psy)?! Jokes on you!

Ever hear of the white ICC Delegate Cloaks? (271/246 int/psy) The ones at QL 100 are almost good as QL 200 Nano cloaks. Just pay a fixer to buy you one and hot swap away. (Please!)

[Canto]

I have never worn Neleb's, just thinking about it because of the power to OE the other armor pieces that a crat suit and dual wielding Jess allows. Don't have time to play troll wars anymore with you Seraphirst, as it is obvious you have no experience playing a crat, but would welcome any adult comment on my Nelebs v. back armor questions posted earlier.

[Loretta]

Ahh, the good old days... Just rediscovered this post again, and it still makes me laugh after all this time.

[Nostra343]

each teammate has a role.
If a doc can run a higher heal, if NT or MP can wear Neleb to nuke for 200/300 more damage every 2 seconds, can cast higher pets anytime they die (do you _really_ want your MP switching cloaks in boss room after the pet has been taking aggro that would otherwise kill a teammate?), can run higher debuffs and better buffs when/if they expire, and the total difference is what? 30-50 more damage per hit taken? Then you should appreciate the risk they're taking to help the team, and the enforcer/doctor should do their best to help that guy operate at his/her optimum.
The guy who posted "causing the doc to spend more nanochargers" obviously lacks such concept of "team" and "teamwork". Who cares about nanochargers lol? We buy them by truckloads and eat them like candy. I wouldn't want to team with anybody who would even remotely care about nanochargers in the heat of the battle. :|

There are good and bad ways to do anything, and simple act of wearing neleb's doesn't actually automatically imply that much.
Neleb-wearing nanomage with no evades will crumble. Neleb-wearing nanomage with maxed evades and other armor will take 50 more damage per hit, and not care about it one bit - especially if he has a doc and enforcer who are half-decent.

I've been out of neleb's for dozens of levels thankfully, but honestly, it's been invaluable help to me and my team (whether they know it or not) at certain levels when +8 means a new nuke, pet, or debuff.

[Autocratt]

Originally posted by Suzsu
as it is obvious you have no experience playing a crat

Funny, I have many posts in the crat forums. I wonder how I got all that expertise if I never played a crat. LOL mine is higher than yours. Be careful what you assume.

OK, OK, no need to continue the flames. Having used Neleb's in a switch for armor playstyle, I see it those 8 extra nanoskill points in this way:

Pet Casting: Neleb's is great for getting a few extra levels of pet, especially for crats since we have so many freaking bots, some of which differ by only (guess what) 8 nanoskill points. But once you're done casting, unless those 8 pts stop you from going OE (i.e. you got mocham'd/wrangled) it does nothing for you. Another problem is no one levels so slowly that they cannot skip a few bots on the way up.

Mezzing/Rooting: The only difference between high and low level nanos is simply duration. 8 extra points is used only to increase you ATK rating which really is negligible. So no need to keep Neleb's on for this.

Charms: Yes Neleb's can get you to a higher level charm with higher psychic check/lower resist but with everyone doing 100% missions there is nothing to charm even with a psychic debuff.

Nukes: Yes those 8 points can get you to a better nuke. But with crat nukes having a huge (up to 100 pt) skill gap Neleb only helps for those 2 levels where your skills are just short of casting it.

Now self-equippable back armor is worth at least 600-800 armor points which is plenty worthwhile. Is it a hassle to switch, sure but it's more of a hassle to die or be afraid to do your job as a crat which is leading a team thru a mission. ICC Cloaks are great for this.

The best mezzers always lead the way with the crat being the best since you can enter room, mez, send bot on mob while team assists, run into all adjoining rooms and mez mez mez. Traders and NT's have to stop attacking in order to mez, crats do not. To lead the way you need armor since if you crumple in 2 hits you're useless.

Too many ppl have a poor or ignorant understanding of crats. You can play your crat with Neleb's on or you can do it as I have outlined above. Your style is your own but I would almost guarantee that you will get tons of tells to join teams with the latter style.

/me casts Lead from the Front

(I swear, Neleb's robe has probably led to more deaths than any other item in the game )

[Canto]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Will try to get one of the ICC Cloaks and try it out...

[Autocratt]

Send me a tell if we're online, you can have my QL 99.

[Redrazors]

Phew, things got a bit tense there, glad to see it worked out nice in the end

I think seraph has made an excellent argument against the use of nelebs, but I just want to add one more problem about the use of mochams in missions/hunting.

Mochams takes 50 ncu a pop, and half of the team are going to take 1 or 2 of them using up 100 ncu. I can happily use 4 of them to get better heals and hp buffs. My health buffs alone can take up 50-70 ncu, plus all the other buffs people put on themselves, and other important team buffs.

So what I usually find as soon as mochams starts flying about in a mid level team is that suddenly nobody has space for my temp hp buff, and certainly no space for hots. Even with a decent fixer ncu buff this is still often the case. This means that people's health are going to be between 600-900 lower than it could be (yes, I do try to keep people filled with temp hp buff, and hots on the tank).

Of course, there are some people who are the exception to the rule, but not often. No need to tell me how many thousand ncu you have , I know you're out there with that freshman title hanging over your head.

Just saying that mochams are a mixed blessing as far as I'm concerned, so busting a gut by using nelebs to get them really early is only going to exaccerbate the ncu problems I'm talking about. I'm not saying that having mochams is entirely bad, it is of course really handy, but there is a downside.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by RedRazors
Also, any agent who tells me he doesn't want to waste ip on a repressor. Ok, big gun, low health, you make an excellent tank don't you.

Or a better one:

When the agent *has* wasted ip on the repressor, but not on maxing body dev first.

[Naels]

- When the team decides to start pulling everything in and around the 1st room at once, and everyone dies.

- When you go into the 1st room and see 3 Ace Nano-Technicians. (We all got chain area nuked and died. lol)

That's my favorites :o)