Just a idea.. what do you all think?

[______________Soccom]

This idea is coming from someone who did nothing but pvp in UO and who doesn't pvp in AO because i am too lazy to go around getting buffs.

Why not make all areas outside of major cities 25% zones?

1. It would make it less practical to find all those important buffs (crit/hp doc+ enf) all the time as you would essentially always be open for attack.

2. It would make lvling mean a lot more. I saw a lvl 95 enforcer using dual swords ql 15.... Why?!?! because they could. Hardly anyone turns on "other hit other" because of the spam and when in a team with a doc and tank the rest of the team just sits there and hits Q over and over. Then there is the "DING" and "Gratz"
whoopy f'in deal. People can add nothing to the team and still lvl with relatively no chance of dying. Usually if they doing horrible damage they rarely get aggroed and this is actually beneficial to them.

3. This would lead to a lot more non-twink vs non-twink combat. There is always going to be the "elite" players out there wiping the floor with newbs but this is the case in every game where there are "conflicts" between players aka PVP. (14.2 is going to help minimize the gaps between the uber-twinkable classes versus the non uber-twinkable classes).

4. It would play into the storyline more. Where does this prozac gas come from out in the middle of nowhere? Is it pumped into the atmosphere somehow but avoids very small areas (MMD)?

My past pvp game experience showed me that there were 2 types of people when it comes to the people who don't like pvp.

A. They are really horrible at it and when they start learning how to and the stragedy behind it they ALWAYS end up Pro-PVP.
(This solution would lead to these people learning pvp and thus allowing there to be more pvp going on at upper lvls also)

B. The pacifists who, even though would rock at it, find conflict with other people what they really don't want to do.
(Even though this game is touted as a conflict of two sides the game needs to have a place for these people to lvl. Simple answer... MISSIONS) Lets look at if they wanted to use hunting grounds though..
If your lvl 30 the best place to lvl is lush fields (as far as omni go) How many other lvl 20-45 clan members are going to fly to these areas to specifically gank the lvling players? Even if they are uber-yalm flying peeps what are going to be the odds when they land? 20-2 or 3 (using SW mines as an example)? What if they get a bunch of clan together and invade the hunting grounds.. Isn't this what is meant by a sided conflict?

Now i know my spelling and grammar can be hellish and that these ideas come from someone who doesn't pvp in AO much (I get ganked a lot because i just self buff.. I'm about 10-45 rofl) but i would like some feedback/rebuttles in the way of a intelligent debate =)

[_____________Amanite]

Heya Irritated,

I will introduce myself too the way you did it..


I played UO too during three years.. and never Pvped.
That maybe seems crazy, but I was the guy roleplaying without fighting everybody.
I insist on one thing tough: I hated the introduction of Trammel and never left Felluca .
(for people not knowing the game: trammel= non-pvp area)

What I'm trying to say here is that even if I don't like to fight with other people, that is in my opinion a really important part of such games!
I was scary each time I had to travel from one place to another on Britannia, because there were bad reds (PK) in the wilderness.
(I never used magic to teleport.. yeah yeah, crazy Rper)
That was really something adding ****e to the game: having to find an escort as soon as you leave the town, fearing attacks, ambushs, thiefs, ...


Now, back to AO.

I don't Pvp in AO, I have a bureaucrat who don't even use a weapon, so I know it will always be hard for me to PVP.

BUT..

I want 25% zones everywhere but in the towns too!!

Because:

From a RP perspective, we are on planet with different sides "fighting" each others. A lot of clan members don't like OT, and same in the other way.

I feel secure when I'm in Omni-Trade, or in an outpost, that's great.. But why should I feel secure when walking in the wilderness, where there isn't any guards to protect me?
(and don't tell me there is a gaz, hehe)

I would like to feel the difference while in protected areas and while in wastelands.
While there are half the zones that are 25% and the other half 75%, everyone would go only to the 75% ones, but if the whole planet but the cities were 25%, the game would be totally different and bring this fear feeling that added ****e to felluca.

People would not dare leaving a town alone, groups would form at gates to be a lot when leaving town, attacks would happen everywhere and as you said, the pvpers would not be only the uber ones.


So in your categories, I'm a pacifist, but in now way, I would only want to do missions.
I really would enjoy travelling with risk
(what risk? you can save your xp before leaving a town, and you can use a plane when in the wilderness)
I really would enjoy going outside with a team of friends and feeling that I'm protected, then having to face an attack and wdo what I can do to save the others of the team, ..
That would be a totally different pvp game, and it would not anymore be "I'm going in this zone because I know there are pvpers that want to fight".

OK, I don't know if I was understandable.. but I tried


Amanite

/Edit:

If most areas are 25%, we really need a murder system like we had in UO:
So basically, everyone is free to attack everyone, but that's not the case as when you kill someone you get a murder count.

If you get too much murder counts, you are considered as a murderer and freely killable by everyone, without getting a count, during a determined period of time.

So there will still be the fear to be attacked by anyone, but people will not attack as being considered as a murderer has consequences. (Guards attack you, you cannot go in 75% zones, things like that..)

In my opinion, that is the only way to bring something a lot of players don't have in AO: HONOR.

People will not anymore kill the mobs your team is trying to kill since some times.

Less "camping mob" stealing

Less Mob Training as u can kill the bad guy.

U will not be insulted without penalty anymore.

...
...

/End_Edit


Btw, it will never happen..

[Whiterrabbit]

i think its a good way to make 80% of players quit, then AO would shut down. so its a bad idea

[______________Soccom]

Originally posted by ReelBigFish
i think its a good way to make 80% of players quit, then AO would shut down. so its a bad idea

UO was setup this way for over 3 years before they introduced the 2 seperate worlds. Imagine getting looted completely regardless of "saving" . It has had and still has more people playing than AO.

[Bierbauch]

Originally posted by Irritated
UO was setup this way for over 3 years before they introduced the 2 seperate worlds.

Well I am sure its not the PvP environemt who keeps so many people in UO. Most non-Pvpers hates to get pked, thats why they introduced Trammel.

Also in UO you can escape most encounters with Recall. AO is missing this possibilty.

[______________Soccom]

Originally posted by Bierbauch


Well I am sure its not the PvP environemt who keeps so many people in UO. Most non-Pvpers hates to get pked, thats why they introduced Trammel.

Also in UO you can escape most encounters with Recall. AO is missing this possibilty.

Lets take omni as an example.
Level 5-25.. Hunt in Omni forest? Lush Fields? No where near clan. Very little chance of getting pk'd. (Remember for them to attack you in AO they have to be around your lvl)

Level 25-50 .. Hunt in Lush Fields. Could be clan because of yalm availability but what would the odds be? There would be tons of omni around.

Level 50+ Hunt in 20K. Even more Omni around and tons of lvl150+ at eye camp. Clan would have a hard time pk'ing people.

There are always missions available...

Plus in UO a character that is 1 power hour old could recall allowing them to go to any part of the world. The things needed for recall a newbie character can earn very quickly and can be given by a higher character. The only way a person can get around fast in AO to the remote areas is with a yalm. Who gives out a 5mil credits to a newbie character? A lvl 6 character can't fly even the lowest yalm.

In UO there is no limit on the person that can be attacked. You can be 2 days old (as long as you are no longer "young") and be attacked by a 7x GM. In AO you have to be around the same lvl. This is a lot more fair than UO. UO there are no sides and everyone is open to attack to everyone (no lvl restriction and no side restriction)

UO and AO are completely different types of games though. I don't think that 80% of AO's population would quit just because they would occasionally have to fight someone around their lvl (seems fair to me) in a game that is supposed to be a war between two sides.

[Bierbauch]

Originally posted by Irritated
Lets take omni as an example.
Level 5-25.. Hunt in Omni forest? Lush Fields? No where near clan. Very little chance of getting pk'd. (Remember for them to attack you in AO they have to be around your lvl)

Level 25-50 .. Hunt in Lush Fields. ---- SNIP ----

So you dont think there will be hoards of roaming gankers ?

Originally posted by Irritated
Plus in UO a character that is 1 power hour old could recall allowing them to go to any part of the world. The things needed for recall a newbie character can earn very quickly and can be given by a higher character. The only way a person can get around fast in AO to the remote areas is with a yalm. Who gives out a 5mil credits to a newbie character? A lvl 6 character can't fly even the lowest yalm.

My point was you can easy escape in UO but not in AO. People dont like to have no chance.

[______________Soccom]

Originally posted by Amanite
Heya Irritated,
/Edit:

If most areas are 25%, we really need a murder system like we had in UO:
So basically, everyone is free to attack everyone, but that's not the case as when you kill someone you get a murder count.

If you get too much murder counts, you are considered as a murderer and freely killable by everyone, without getting a count, during a determined period of time.

So there will still be the fear to be attacked by anyone, but people will not attack as being considered as a murderer has consequences. (Guards attack you, you cannot go in 75% zones, things like that..)

In my opinion, that is the only way to bring something a lot of players don't have in AO: HONOR.

People will not anymore kill the mobs your team is trying to kill since some times.

Less "camping mob" stealing

Less Mob Training as u can kill the bad guy.

U will not be insulted without penalty anymore.

...
...

/End_Edit


Btw, it will never happen..

AO should not be like UO though. There are many differences that help out game play. First of all people have to be of opposite sides. Second they have to be around the same lvl. Once they hit lvl75 all the good hunting spots are already 25% zones so this would change nothing for this lvl.

This isn't going to stop spawn camping etc.. and there needs to be no "murder count" system like UO. I would like rewards for killing players of the other side but this would just lead to too much exploiting thus should never be implemented.

[______________Soccom]

Originally posted by Bierbauch

So you dont think there will be hoards of roaming gankers ?

My point was you can easy escape in UO but not in AO. People dont like to have no chance.

No i do not think there would be "hoards" of roaming gankers.. would there be a few? yes definately. Just like there are people who KS.... camp high end mobs...train mobs on people and use every exploit to abuse the system as much as possible.

Do I.. IMO feel that more 25% zones would make the game more enjoyable to everyone? I honestly do.

14.2 is going to help bridge the gap between the super twinks and the casual gamer. I purposely left out people who just never get it.... and never will.

[__________Turbulence]

I think the best solution is to make Rubi-Ka 2 25% everywhere and Leave Rubi 1 as it is. Transfer everyone from Rubi-2 that wants it to Rubi-1 and vice versa...a one time transfer type thing. Or else move everyone from rubi -2 to rubi-1 and force everyone to start fresh on the rubi-2 pk server for balance purposes.

25% zones everywhere is definitely where the fun is tho, the game is becoming rather stale all my friends are losing interest and leaving the game and im about ready to leave myself theres just nothing fun to do...its the same old xp grind in missions all day...25% everywhere adds strategy and fun to the game and gives it a whole new personality.

And while i realise some people are just plain carebears and will never adapt to a pk environment thus the need for seperate pk server ala Darktide....look what Darktide did for AC that game was dead in the water until Darktide became popular and breathed new life into it...people still play Darktide to this day.

[______________Soccom]

Originally posted by Turbulence
I think the best solution is to make Rubi-Ka 2 25% everywhere and Leave Rubi 1 as it is. Transfer everyone from Rubi-2 that wants it to Rubi-1 and vice versa...a one time transfer type thing. Or else move everyone from rubi -2 to rubi-1 and force everyone to start fresh on the rubi-2 pk server for balance purposes.

25% zones everywhere is definitely where the fun is tho, the game is becoming rather stale all my friends are losing interest and leaving the game and im about ready to leave myself theres just nothing fun to do...its the same old xp grind in missions all day...25% everywhere adds strategy and fun to the game and gives it a whole new personality.

And while i realise some people are just plain carebears and will never adapt to a pk environment thus the need for seperate pk server ala Darktide....look what Darktide did for AC that game was dead in the water until Darktide became popular and breathed new life into it...people still play Darktide to this day.

I"m fine with this =)
Make RK1 all 75% zone except the arena and make RK2 all 25% zone except city and arena.

I would gladly start over even though i have 500+ lvls across all my alts lol. Once you hit lvl120ish and see nothing to do except mindless easy as hell missions you start to lose interest in AO... sadly. It would be a blast to take a lvl25 character... go to lush fields and hang out at OP. See someone in OOC yell "Clan hitting swmine" all omnis around lvl40 come quick... WAR!!!

/me misses UO days when people would icq me saying "I heard you killing people at despise again! you tool!" lol

[_____________Amanite]

I still like this idea..

I don't think that people will have "no chance to escape" :

If you zone in an ennemy area, you will always have 15 seconds to get into your plane.
Even if you don't want to enter your plane, that let you some seconds to see if there are people waiting for you.. If there is nobody, they are maybe in ambush a little further, and then if you don't want to take the risk --> yalm.

Now, lower levels characters don't have a plane, that's true, but in my opinion, everyone who wants to go in an dangerous area should already be skilled at least a little bit ( lvl 75 is the real pvp cap).
So 75- players should have a lot of places to level in Pvm safely, and earn money to get a plane..


In resume: if you don't want to fight, zone in your plane, that's safer than the recall in UO because you can even "precast" it.
if you want to live true dangerous experiences, save (you don't want to lose xp, don't you) , and then go out of town for whatever you want to do..


Even if you die, you will not lose a lot but "honor".

Amanite

Btw: this situation will bring a real desire for peace and agrements on a political level, so that's good for pvpers, and for non-pvpers like me.

[______________Blanch]

Really wish AO were this way but they messed up pvp bad by allowing little pockets of 75%-100% zones in must all pvp areas. Would be nice see much more 25%.

[Daimoness]

Well, I never really understood the Supression Gas system. To me, there should be no gas at all. If you attack someone near a

guard, be prepared to get all the guards on you. And I'd vote for some tougher guards around, especially in Newland, where

guards and citizens seem to be target practice for high-level crooks.

If you constantly attack Players, you'll get some kind of "notoriety", that is, killing you should yield bravery tokens for

the one who gets you. Perhaps some other reward, too.

I don't like the "loot me plenty" idea in PvP. I spent considerable time camping places to get some rare items, and I don't

want to have some uber-twinked jerk **** them off me.

Scrap the Supression Gas, simply introduce "Law Zones" and "Anarchy Zones". Attacking civilians, guards or players inside a

law zone makes you "enemy". You will be open to attack by everyone without penalty. "Law zones would be the cities and

anything around them. You could easily convert all the 100%, 75% and 25% zones into law zones, perhaps with decreasing

"importance", that is, attacking players in 25% would have less "legal" consequences than attacking in a 100% zone. 0%

(mayhem) zones are just that - anarchy. No one would care if you get killed there. Go there at your own risk. I would make

some 25% zones 0%, then, like most of Stret East and Stret West.

Anyways, this would involve changing a lot of code in the game, to introduce more than just the "alignment", but also a sort

of "legal rating". And of course a good legal rating should have benefits, too, like better reaction from sided NCSs and

stuff. Good roleplayers would in any case react better, at least that's what I would expect.

Example: Some crook starts shooting guards in Newland. He seems to high level enough to kill them. Why don't I have a right

as citizen of Newland to just send him running to the Reclaim if he starts shooting fellow citizens?

Perhaps the PvP raking system should be changed, too. Uber-twinked players who just go to 25% zones to ambush players who go

for a hunt should not be rewarded with rank increase. They should be getting "infamous" for that, well, some kind of reward,

too, but sooner or later you'll be a criminal. NPCs react worse, perhaps even attacking you. Some vendors would simply stop

trading with you. If you're a well-known criminal, guards would automatically attack you, perhaps even stack the odds, "call

in backup".

Okay, this is all just from my point of view of a more realistic "roleplaying"-style approach to the issue.

[______________Soccom]

I don't think anything major needs to be changed in the code.

1. Make all city zones 75%. Make all outside zones 25%. Make some very very far zones.. SFP... etc... 0% zones.

Its a sided conflict.

The lvl restrictions for pvp coupled with the fact that people can save and lose nothing if they step into a 25% zone just for a fight would make AO so much more enjoyable.

Nuetrals would have it the hardest because the nuetral city of newland is over-run with the clans =) Then again they were supposed to be stuck in the middle, and should have a harder life. At least that is what i got from reading the manual/listening in the newbie creation audio help.

I'm nuetral ...step outside of city limits (zone near water) and see a omni/clan fight going on... I say "Peoples... Peoples.. can't we all just get along!?!" ... Then i get jumped by both sides.... RPing!! There would be a point to it!

There would be no point in a lvl150 going to lush fields because 98% of the people there are sub 75... No/very little point in going to omni forest... because most of the people out there are lvl3-25...

When you just start lowbies would be so far away from each other that there would rarely be conflict. thus allowing new players to learn the ropes with relatively no pvp going on. Once you get to lvl 15-20ish if you really wanted to a omni could grid to newland and a clan could whompa there. Nuetral areas would actually be a battleground.

This would play into the story so much.. GRRRRRRRRRRr this would rock so much....

[______________Soccom]

Originally posted by Anatheus
Well, I never really understood the Supression Gas system. To me, there should be no gas at all. If you attack someone near a

guard, be prepared to get all the guards on you. And I'd vote for some tougher guards around, especially in Newland, where

guards and citizens seem to be target practice for high-level crooks.

If you constantly attack Players, you'll get some kind of "notoriety", that is, killing you should yield bravery tokens for

the one who gets you. Perhaps some other reward, too.

I don't like the "loot me plenty" idea in PvP. I spent considerable time camping places to get some rare items, and I don't

want to have some uber-twinked jerk **** them off me.

Scrap the Supression Gas, simply introduce "Law Zones" and "Anarchy Zones". Attacking civilians, guards or players inside a

law zone makes you "enemy". You will be open to attack by everyone without penalty. "Law zones would be the cities and

anything around them. You could easily convert all the 100%, 75% and 25% zones into law zones, perhaps with decreasing

"importance", that is, attacking players in 25% would have less "legal" consequences than attacking in a 100% zone. 0%

(mayhem) zones are just that - anarchy. No one would care if you get killed there. Go there at your own risk. I would make

some 25% zones 0%, then, like most of Stret East and Stret West.

Anyways, this would involve changing a lot of code in the game, to introduce more than just the "alignment", but also a sort

of "legal rating". And of course a good legal rating should have benefits, too, like better reaction from sided NCSs and

stuff. Good roleplayers would in any case react better, at least that's what I would expect.

Example: Some crook starts shooting guards in Newland. He seems to high level enough to kill them. Why don't I have a right

as citizen of Newland to just send him running to the Reclaim if he starts shooting fellow citizens?

Perhaps the PvP raking system should be changed, too. Uber-twinked players who just go to 25% zones to ambush players who go

for a hunt should not be rewarded with rank increase. They should be getting "infamous" for that, well, some kind of reward,

too, but sooner or later you'll be a criminal. NPCs react worse, perhaps even attacking you. Some vendors would simply stop

trading with you. If you're a well-known criminal, guards would automatically attack you, perhaps even stack the odds, "call

in backup".

Okay, this is all just from my point of view of a more realistic "roleplaying"-style approach to the issue.

Even though getting a reward for killing someone of the opposite faction would really play into the storyline aspects, it can never be done because it would be exploited up the @ss.

Omni and Clan killing nuetral guards/players/npcs should be expected. Clans and Omni killing their own sides should result in something happening to them...but what could be done that wouldn't require a major code re-write? I would prefer simple solutions and just ignore the factions kill their own guards...

[________________Kush]

IF it should be 25% everywhere, then FC should make the lvl 150+ stop owning 75´s. What i mean, is that implament lvl limits for attack even after lvl 75.


/thor rk2

[Rubirango]

Thing is, In AO pvp isnt at all balanced not in the slightest, whereas UO it was very well done, not to mention the lag and other bugs in this game...

I would be up for this if pvp was reworked and had balance for all.

[______________Soccom]

IMO pvp should never truely be "balanced".
Certain classes should dominate other classes.
Then turn around and be dominated by others.
The problem is 2 classes (fixers and adventuerers) don't own anyone in any situation. And then Crit buffs make certain professions extremely powerful (soldier/trader).

Everyone is outside buff crazy. Because there are so few zones to pvp in, people get huge outside buffs before even stepping foot in the zone. Have all zones 25% and this would be impractical. Most people you would be fighting would only be using self buffs which, after the 14.2 patch especially, would greatly even out the pvp spectrum.

Traders/docs/soldiers .. usually touted as the pvp gods, all are much much much weaker without outside buffs. Sure there are going to be super buffed people roaming around looking for fights but in AO there are at least level restrictions to who you could fight.

In UO i was a 7x gm mage (back when you could equip a weapon while having the casting target cursor up... OLD SCHOOL) and 28ping. I rarely lost even against 2 people at the same time (double ebolt was the shiznatch when everyone else could only cast 1 at a time).
I could pk anyone(meaning regardless of their characters power) that was outside of town (there was no "young" back then) and believe me i did. You could of bought the game 15 mins ago... and got your newbie sword to go outside and kill a deer and i could be there and nuke you with a exp/eb combo. Dead... There were no level restrictions/omni:clan

In UO ping is 50%, time macroed is 25%, and skill of player was 25% of the fight. In AO buffs are 75% of the fight, equipment is 15% of the fight, and skill of the player is 10% of the fight.

Make all zones 25% and people would fight without buffs because finding people to constantly hit them with a crit buff would become unviable.

[____________Infamine]

Uhm even if i like the RP part of this thread i cant bump it for a simple reason, after 75 your leveling in pm prolly at Shades, VBs, BH, etc...
It will be way to easy say for Garzu (sorry had to pick one up ;p) or any other high lvl NT to come and area nukes ur asses straight to reclaim then just yalm back and jet back to safe place then repeat, the same goes for omni forest/greater forest/lush.
also add the point that this would cause even more gank that there is already and theres in no way you can escape from those places even omni forest.


NB: really didnt mean to pick up a name but Garzu sounded good since Snarf isnt around anymore and i saw noone else at Aces camp area nuking the happy faithfull levelers.