"Exploits, Nerfs, Banning and Overequipping" by Gaute Godager

[______________Eowyyn]

Originally posted by Tedric
Well, color me "not surprised".

The only people who are in favor of leaving tings as they are... are the people who have twinked characters. Wow, newsflash. Even less surprising is the argument that they would not be able to survive without their lvl zillion equipment.

Here's a clue: the reason why MOBs are so tough right now is you. If the game did not have twinks who have twisted the game balance out of whack, Funcom would not have been forced to upgrade MOBs - with the result we can see currently: over-equip or die.

Any game re-balance needs to go hand-in-hand with a MOB toughness balance. But isn't that what we have the test server for?

Apparently you did not read my previous post. I'm not in favor of getting rid of over-equipping, but I'm -NOT- an over-equipper myself. It's a game. Getting your butt kicked happens. Quit whinning and play.

[___________Tal Cerav]

It's simple, really. If your skills/stats drop below what it takes to use it, it should stop working. All the self buffers can just refresh their buffs. All the people who got other character types to buff them better be grouping with those types so they can be rebuffed. Simple.


Your megagun stops working because your buff runs out, equip a lower ql. That's what I do with a nanomage now... debuff keeps me from using my big nuke I use the one I used 3 levels ago. It ain't hard.

[______________Mysaad]

The way I see it, over-equiping is good and bad. It all depends on the venue. There are three broad situations I see for over-equiping. PvM, Post-75 PvP, and Pre-75 PvP.

PvM: The game has been tweeked to factor in Over-equiped players so I see no major problems with over-equiping in a PvM situation. It's already accounted for and players that don't PvP and want to over-equip should be allowed to.

Post-75 PvP: With the level range being so wide the low end needs to be able to over-equip to compete with the upper end. The ability to over-equip here is desirable and the higher up the level ladder you go the less over-equiping is needed. It should be allowed here too.

Pre-75 PvP: Over-equiping here is severly unbalancing. This is the core of the over-equiping complaints. Over-equiping here is too unbalancing and should be restricted.

But the question is how to allow some and restrict others. Also consider the fact that you can over-equip just by being. What I mean is an Atrox enforcer can equip weapons higher in quality level then its character level just because it is an Atrox enforcer. So any solution must allow for this.

So here is my solution:

Prior to the PvP level check that determines what level range you can engage in PvP combat you add a check of the equiped weapon and character level. If the quality level of the equiped weapon is 25 to 40 levels greater than the character level then the basis of the PvP level is the level of the weapon and not the character level. The 25 to 40 "grace" range is to allow for normal self-buff over-equiping. The exact line is best determined by Funcom, because they have all the numbers.

e.g. An level 35 Agent (sorry to pick on you guys... well maybe not) equiped with a quality level 93 gripo is considered level 93 for PvP purposes and finds opponents in the Post-75 PvP venue.

What this does is allow over-equiping in venues that it is not a problem and in some cases desirable, while at the same time moves the problem over-equiping to a venue that it no longer becomes a problem. Similary equiped players v similary equiped players. You can still over-equip to your hearts desire but must now fight other like equip players.

The people who PvM and do not want to engage in PvP should have no complaints with this solution because it does not effect them. Nor should the 75+ crowd because it does not effect them either. The low level casual PvP should like it too because they now have a level fighting field. No need to worry about an opponent grossly outclassing them even though they are of the same level. The Pre-75 PvP over-equipers should have not problems because they can still over-equip and now get to test their "skillz" against similary equiped players. If they do complain then I would reply in the same spirit with the answer I have heard so oft repeated to complaints of over-equiping for "everyone to just over-equip themselves and quit whining", only I would say just level up and shut up.

My solution is simple and targeted. It does not grossly change game machanics. It eliminats the problem without disallowing over-equiping.


Consul Princip Imperator

[______________Tedric]

Originally posted by Nanodood


Apparently you did not read my previous post. I'm not in favor of getting rid of over-equipping, but I'm -NOT- an over-equipper myself. It's a game. Getting your butt kicked happens. Quit whinning and play.

Ok, obviously generalities like "everyone" are dangerous. Apologies .

But as to "quit whining and play"... that's what I mostly do, but it's becoming difficult. I've avoided over-equipping out of principle (i.e. stuff I cannot equip with self-buffs), and doing missions at normal 50% difficulty is becoming more and more difficult. The MOB difficulty is more and more geared towards twinked characters, which *does* affect my own game. I wish it didn't.

[Cathail]

I think part of the problem with the overequipping discussion is there is still some ambiguity in equipping given the existance of buffing.

Which is overequipping:

1) equipping something one can't equip with base stats

2) equipping something that one can't equip with base stats and self bufs

3) equipping something that one can't equip with base stats, self bufs, and bufs from other similar level characters

4) equipping something that one can't equip with base stats and any buf they can take given their ncu limit

For those of you that think it is "1" then what are the bufs for? Some bufs raise ones ability to succesfully hit or damage, such as a weapon skill buf, but some do not. What becomes of these bufs?
For those of you that think it is "2", then why allow bufs to be cast on others? Does this not do away with an entire "market" in the game as well as some somewhat forced interaction? And again, there are some bufs that are really only useful on others, most notably some of the trader "bufs".

For those of you that think it is "4", what's the point of having limits? The way the game is now there really are no limits, buf, wear bigger belt and memory, rinse, repeat. Eventually you can wear just about anything at any level.

My personal feeling is that "3" is the closest definition of overequipping. Unfortunately the current system does not have any way of enforcing that a given character can only receive bufs that are of a similar level.

Perhaps, rather than focusing so much on the items being equipped, perhaps the bufs themselves should be looked at. The bufs are what allow these items to be equipped, and if these were limited, rather than made obsolete or removed, the rest would laregly become irrelevant.

One possibility I offer is have a base stat or level check for the target of bufs, and if the target does not meet this check then the buf can't be used on the target. By base stat check I mean what the stats of the target are before any modifications.

Another possibility is a straight target level to buf nano quality level check.

These are just two possibilities, I am certain there are other ways that bufs could be limited. It is clear at this point that NCU usage is not really a limitation at all to someone that is ambitious enough.

[______________Hodaka]

Let's face it, making items suddenly not work if your skills drop will only made the game so tedious, that droves of people will quit. I can't name one person who doesn't have something equipped that required help. Heck, even the treatment clinic buffed me for my implants.. do I run back to it everytime I need my implants to work again?

I've always thought that maybe the most simple solution would be to make it so that no one can buff someone that is gray to them. That would keep the high level buffs away from those who shouldn't have them yet.. I used to support the idea of making items less effective, but the potential for bugs is a lot greater, and I think not being able to buff someone gray to you would give pretty much the same results..

Does funcom have any statistics on how the "self only" of complit buffs has helped? That should have prevented the huge NCUs and belts for lowlvl players.. and the rest should be growing into their belts by now..

And for reference, I'm now at a point where I can do 50% missions if I'm very careful, zone a lot, and heal a lot.. yes, I have a few items overequipped.. would I even be able to do 50% missions without this? probably not.. if they take away those items, they'd better darn well adjust missions so they can be actually played.. instead, they keep making them more difficult

besides, overequipping is just a badly used term... if I said I was equipping for maximum potential, everyone would probably think it was a smart thing to do..

many of the main complainers are just people who are too lazy to do the work, so they don't want anyone else to do it... I saw lvl40 people here saying "i guess I'd better start using implants".. heck, if you weren't using implants since lvl10, something is definitely wrong with how you play. Those people have no right to tell others they can't better their characters just because they don't know how to play the game..

as for exploiters, if funcom can't keep good enough logs to reimburse people for items that bugs have made disappear, how do they ever expect to track down exploiters? Fix your logs and maybe you can catch some people using statistics from those logs..

The fact is, Funcom made this game too configurable. There are too many options to better your character. It's the reason I love AO, but it's also the cause of most of the problems, including said "overequipping"..

PVP seems to be the only excuse for most of this argument anyway. After all, who cares about what people do on missions? Why can't Funcom simply fix PVP (I thought they had, did the new fixes not work?)..

Of course if Funcom were to drop a boatload of IP on us to make up for some of the pain they'd cause, maybe I'd forgive them

[_____________Mescale]

Originally posted by Tedric


While this is a fun idea, I think there are technical reasons why this would be a huge hassle (two codebases, with both having to be patched with new stuff).

I still suggest putting up a poll on the subject. I'd be interested in what the general concensus is - maybe I *am* in the minority in wanting over-equipping dealt with.

I thought about the two code bases, and it depends,

Is this such a big problem that it would require such a huge rewrite thus making in impossible to run two different versions? I would imagine the changes would be mostly the rules and the way it works, bug fixes and such would still work perhaps with a little tweaking. It might even give some insight to what is causing these bugs.

I agree on the poll side of it, but I think the people who complain the most are the people who stand to lose the most, and so thats why there are a lot of people opposed to the change. After all if its not for the greater good its not good right?

[Maximilian]

... here is my contribution.
Hope you brought some time with you , took me some time to digest your article, so I'll try to give you something adequate in volume (and content).

The conclusions first (you might read the text beneath, but you don't have to )

1. No (although it would make me feel good, for a few moments ...)
2. Hard (see below)
3. I would prefer a partially disabling solution. My suggestions are the following:
- Skill should be superior to ql (equipment). Means the combination of (enough) skill and ql should give optimal results, either lack should result in (significant) loss of effectivity, but lack of skill should be worse.
- Therefore I would like to see harder punishment for overequipping than planned by you. If somebody equips an item 25% over his (unbuffed) skills, first put a 10% malus on the weapon (ql) and then substract another 25% efficiency (skill). Guess how long we will see players with equipment three fold their level?!
- Treat different classses of items differently:
-- Weapons (offensive). Each time you use them, your skill is needed (checked). Highest penalty (offensive-defensive dilemma, see below) Would (almost) not affect me.
-- Armor (defensive). Skills mainly needed to wear them. Minor penalty if at all. Would affect me.
-- Implants (autarkic equipment). Skills solely needed to implant them, selfworking. No to very minor penalty. Would not affect me.
-- Special equipment (belts, damage multipliers). Items, that imbalance greatly, because the give you a great performance boost. Total disabling. Could affect me (belt).


Comments and discussion:

Nerf
A "nerf" is a change in game-rules, game-items or game-balance that feels like a reduction of in-game power for the player.

What do you mean with 'feels' (Max: lvl49 dual pistol adv). I recall the dualwield 'change' rather precisely. There was a statement, that sounded approx. like: We won't do such things again, until we find a method to refund the loss of IPs that comes along with the 'change'.
Don't even try to find an excuse. Try to find someone that believes you. Just a few words: Burst, Conceal, Pillow, ... .
Please, whenever it might necessary to adapt certain aspects of the game: 'Fully comment' on it, and not let the truth (or whatever it might seem) come out in single drops communicated by players to players.


... If this was the way forward, it would become unfair to the players not "using" this repetitive system, and people stop playing -> Funcom goes out of business -> Rubi-Ka becomes but a distant memory.

Ahem, I would be careful with such predictions . How to play the game is everbody's sole decision. I enjoy collecting items, optimizing my char and trying different things, somebody else might see this entirely different (POWER). Fairness can't be achieved in a game, where the rules are not fixed and not known to everybody to the same extent (and even then, it would be hard). Remember the chess discussion between Ross and Radiman?
I don't expect to be equal or superior to somebody who invests more time into the game (playing, testing, reading) than me. I don't eypect to be superior to anybody (anything else would be arrogant, wouldn't it). But I expect to not be threatened by any cheater, that simply relies on loopwholes in the system!


How we handle exploiters

Ommit one step. As stated before: everbody that uses an exploit more than once (a few times) is (usually) aware of it. Warn him/her once, than close the ammount for one month, than ban the account. If the same credit card number is used for another account, start on stage 2 (warned). Lower status (2) after maybe 6(3) month of unsu****ious (active) playing.
It has to hurt, otherwise you will be ignored quite soon. To my knowledge (based on literature) only online compagnies with rigid banning politics were succesful so far (UO, Everquest)


... People tell me they have canned their account because they are so tired of seeing people strutting around with their "illegal gear". Just think of what this causes in PvP for instance. So how hard do YOU think we should crack down on people?

Harder.
Check the distribution of people. Where are more players online 75% or 25%(mayhem) zones. Correct the numbers for the players that are forced in to the low percentage zones (high level). Draw your conclusion. To my personal experience, people
in 75% percent zones are more of the 'enjoy-the-game' type (might be wrong).
Due to the large difference in (PvP) capabilities of the individual professions, a large faction of players might try to avoid the political zones - hell, 4 Holes in dead, or is it just me talking to guards.


... Just let me remind you that not dealing with exploiting might make the game unpredictable for you as well. It works just like in the real world, which means that general abuse influences you as well.

Is there the reason to be found you nerfed Sparrow Flight. Adventurers don't have offensive nanos (on their own). So if you don't want to nuke NTs in Reet form, just restrict executing nano formulas while morphed to 'adv only spells'. I don't want to be punished for someone elses misbehaviour.
PvP, as maybe every form of combat, is usually dominated by the more aggressive [player], spells POWER players (with exceptions, of course). Mentioned above, not every profession is suited for PvP (e.g. dual pistol wielding Adv ). So a lot of people will simply be slaughtered by the professionals of war. Like in real life. I wouldn't expect to stand against a marine. But I know, there is some law and order system (ethics) that will protect me in most of the cases (European). We are in a virtual world. So forget about law and order and ethics (until you introduce it).
Due to game design a lot of people are forced to enter dangerous zones, where they will be easy target. This is definately imbalance.
Talking about imbalance: One of the very hidden nerfs in the last patch. Money.
As a consequence of the changes to the mission system (some good, some bad), earning money has become much harder than before. I assume, this is intended to slow down the process of gaining access to any equipment desired (Yalmahas come to my mind). Well, I am hit by the 'change' as well. How do you think am I going to pay my next set of implants (ql70). Thanks for reducing my game fun again.

To achieve something like game balance, you would have to compensate for the superior combat power of some profession with some other 'essential' skills. In fact, nobody depends on trade skills, everything can be bought from the shops. Equipment that can't be bought officially, can be 'organized' by other means. This is a great imbalance to the occasional player. The standard equipment will not give you any chance to stand against a specialist (like in real life), but the knowledge (and availability) of special equipment is unfortunately restricted to a minority of players as well (oh boy, I would like to clean steps of Madness, and seem what Neleb is carrying, but I am just level 49 and neutral, so I don't dare to).
You removed the FAs successively from the game - why. Where they really that dangerous. I can't find decent Khemo Techs in the shops any longer - same thing?


Overequipping
... However the problems from the past currently give the newer or "honest" players a distinct disadvantaged.

Indeed. The longer I play, the more I get the feeling to be punished for rule conform playing. I didn't blitz missions when it was easy. Although I play from 09.09.01 (thanks again, tell me at least what the surprise was) I don't have millions of credits, no Yalmaha, no ql200 implants, no über weapons or armor, ... . What is the benefit - well, I die in honor when attacked - great.
Discussing your potential strategies:
1.1. Debuffing is of no value - Haha, I got the highest debuff possible xxx incompetence). Never, ever recognized any MOB (I don't PvP) being stopped from nuking my butt. The only thing it suits is to attract the MOBs attention in team fights ...
1.3. Connections and rule knowledge becomes even more important than role-playing and "honest work". - Please name one occasion/location/event, where pure power didn't win over role playing - man, the longer I write, the angrier I get.
2.1. Bah, I don't think this option is very good. It's fair though. - Correct, would be fair, but not very viable.
4.4. Another problem, although mild; it would still be felt as a nerf. Currently "everyone" has items that are beyond their level.
- Correct, but necessary. People who don't overequip get defeated in PVM. Again, name me one situation where the one with the higher AC and worse gun won against the one with the lower AC with the better weapon. Defensive skills are not that influencing in the existing combat system. Between two equal opponents the better defense might be decisive, but usually there don't meet two equals. It is enough to launch you primary attack(s), the rest is cosmetics (as in real life ...?)
4.5. Partially disabling - yup, see above
5. yes, see above

Concerning your questions (again):
1. Uhu. What if you hit 'innocent' players. In dubeo pro reo.
Although unwillingly - the crime has to be done before the punishment can be executed.
2. Hard
3. Discussed intensively above.


Some closing remakrs:
... Note1: This is an article for the achiever type of players, and is full of balancing concerns, rule discussions and MMORPG terms. This is not something for everyone!
... Ok, if you do read this, you are a persistent and intelligent player.

I read these sentences - do I feel more persistent or intelligent than before - not really. According to what I learned in several rhetoric lessons, I wouldn't call this neither an optimal starter nor a well done ending. Old problem with Funcom - great concepts, (brilliant) programming, lousy PR.

Sincerly, Thorsten

P.S. What would puzzle me most in your position is the fact, that such an important question gave only rise to less than 40 answers til today ... . I think you (and I) can remember times, where such an article would have had hundreds of answers within a few hours. THIS is your main problem, be fast [because I want to play the game a little longer and participate one day in some sort of (story) event]

[_____________Mescale]

Originally posted by Cathail
I think part of the problem with the overequipping discussion is there is still some ambiguity in equipping given the existance of buffing.

Which is overequipping:

1) equipping something one can't equip with base stats

2) equipping something that one can't equip with base stats and self bufs

3) equipping something that one can't equip with base stats, self bufs, and bufs from other similar level characters

4) equipping something that one can't equip with base stats and any buf they can take given their ncu limit

No I don't think its any of the above.
Its getting buffed up by any means then equipping an item whilst buffed (armour, weapons etc.), and then when the buff wears off you still have the item equpped, so your using an item above your level and above the objects required stats.

For instance I have elec eng of 20 I got buffed up to 36 for 30 minutes in that time I equipped a floating torch because a whole bunch of my mission were in absolute darkness. After the Buff ran out My Elec Eng dropped back to 20 but I still had a working floating light equipped.

Hence I'm over equipt because my skills do not meet the requirements for the light. But I still have it and use it.

[____________Bandicot]

I definently think that the item should become less effective if you don't have the skills. It sucks if it is disabled and you have to run from the fight. Increasing the time of missions by an unknown but large amount. So I don't think any item should get disabled. Just less effective.

Now how do we deal with nano runners. Increase the fumble rate. The more they lack in the skills the higher the rate they fumble it. You can also force the program to do only min. damage/heal when they don't meet the skills if it is a DD or heal nano. Or the Max. damage/heal decreases. For all the rest increase the fumble rate even more since you can't change the effects of the nano very much. Simple solution. They can't run the program as effectively cause they forgot how to.

So please do not bring into effect a total disable. You made this game a number game. You can easily do the math and reduce the numbers a certain percentage when we lack the skills.

[______________Lumoxx]

A preemptive strike against exploiters is perfectly acceptable, although I'd like to see an in-game warning to those who are suspect, give them a chance to voluntarily play the game honestly. A stern warning though, mention the ones who have been banned already and why these people are now suspected of the same exploits.

Over-equipping has got to go. The items should be un-equipped, if the inventory is full put it to the bank. Its clean, simple, and obvious. Give a system message about why it can't be equipped.

[_____________Salazar]

Ok well I will repeat what everone else as said, exploiters should be banned and also any other accounts on the same credit card should also be banned. Maybe even go as far as any account with the same address, as people can easily have more than one credit card. Of course this must be balanced. There will be some who do so without realising they are exploiting. Anyone found duping an item more than a few times should get an automatic ban. Once or twice, well ok as long as that person reports it.

Over equiping should be allowed as it stands now. Most peple need to in order to survive in game, more so at higher levels. Making the mobs easier to kill so people dont need to over-equip, will not stop people from over-equiping.
One problem I can see are those that have used game mechanics which no long exist to over-equip more than is currently possible. They now have a distinct advantage over players who currently try to over-equip, as I understand it. Maybe I am wrong.
Assumings those early characters are advancing in level then the over equiping will sort itself out. If how ever they terminate rather than increase levels, then I think there is a problem. Just how much of a problem and how it effects others I do not know. I expect you will have over-equiped characters that can breeze through missions to make money and nothing else. I do not know if this actually happens. As far as PvP goes, if the majority of players are leveling their characters then sooner or later those really over-equiped ones will be in the minority and out classed.
I think I would like to see a change to losing IP points when you die. Instead of losing all IP points gained, I think you should only lose half, and maybe half of the money earnt. That way you will always level. Just more slowly if you die. You won't get players self-terminating to stay at one level.

Un-equiping items that you cant use, and here I am thinking mostly of weapons and armour at first seems fair. I play an NT and while I can buff to learn higher nanos, once that buff wears off, I can no longer use them and I have to use something that is not as good. Why should other classes not have the same restrictions? If I get debuffed I also have to switch to lower quality nanos. Again why not other classes.
However having said that I do not think it is practical nor a good idea. For starters it would mean all weapon using characters would have to carry around more than one weapon incase they get debuffed.
Reducing the effectiveness for highly over equiped itmes sounds better, but I still think that wont work either unless you also reduce mob ac/hp as well. At what level do you decrease the effectiveness. How will that effect nanos? If you reduce the damage then you run the risk of them doing the same amount of damage as low quality ones. If that is the case then implants become useless. I have some implants that are nearly 30 levels above me. With MC expertise I can increase that by another 4. So is 34 levels considered over-equiped ? I have only ever used self buff to use implants so I would not think this as over equiped.
I cant see reduced effectiveness for over equiped items can work very well and in effect this happens each time you gain a level anyway. I dont know about others, but I cant upgrade to my next nuke every level. It takes time. By the time I get to that point, my current nukes are often not very effective and it is a real struggle to level. Over-equiped items will be the same. At the start they will be good, but as the character levels the effectiveness of the item reduces.

Perhaps a change in how mobs are viewed may work. Maybe I am wrong but currently I believe that the colour of the mob is based on levels or possible just HP. Perhaps it should be changed to be relative to how much damage you can give and take. So for eaxmple if two players of equal level take on the same mob, but one is buffed more so that he can do more damage and has better armour. To the buffed player the mob may only appear yellow, but to the unbuffed one he may appear red and the amount of XP gained would be altered as well. It would not be fair if the buffed player killed the mob in 30 seconds and got the same XP as the other who may take 5 times as long. If this was done then over-equiping becomes even less relevent in PvM. Of course it would not solve any problems in PvP.
Perhaps the calculations needed to make this work would not be practical, you would have to figure in all the specials, resists and fumbles for nano casters, pets for those that have them, changing weapons mid-fight. But I think it would be better and fairer. Maybe that is the way it currently works, in which case just ignore the last bit

Anyway to sum up,
Ban exploiters.
Leave over-equiping alone.

[_____________Mescale]

Originally posted by Lumoxx

Over-equipping has got to go. The items should be un-equipped, if the inventory is full put it to the bank. Its clean, simple, and obvious. Give a system message about why it can't be equipped.

Problem is what If your wielding a perfectly legal weapon or armour and someone debuffs you thus removing some skill temporarily dropping below the requirements for your weapon/armour and so you lose that weapon or armour in a fight and your dead!.

The only way is to reduce the effectiveness of the item. so you can still fight as before but you're not as good, which is what debuffing skills are meant to do.

[cellestron]

I have read many of the ideas here and would like to add the following comments:

Degrading equipment is going to hurt people who max skills and use nano-formulas to overequip within their means.
De-equiping equipment is going to hurt those who have vested millions of cr in their overequipped gear. Hard-core players deserve to play the game they want to play.
Changing the evaluation system I believe is the best way to go as it will allow everyone to play the game the way they want to. (pls see my prev post for my evaluation suggestion). It will also allow for small amounts of overequipping with little or no penalty.

Thanks!

[Ygglens]

I think the adiea where you reset everyones IP and give us the xp we have earned to spend again etc. was a good sugestion....
You have to remember that overequipping is cheating and cheaters dont deserve to partisipate in a game! I think the over reaction with patch 2.6 was because many didnt actualy read the changes themselves, they just heard about it from players that didnt like it, if you dont like something it doesnt sound to cool when you describe it to someone else you know....
Trie this again, cheaters wont like not being able to cheat, but who cares....

Thats all I have to say

Ymend

[Loretta]

IF you really would like to fix this game, you MUST fix the economic situation.

EXPLOITS AND BANNING:
This one is obvious. A bug in the game was discovered by a technical assurance tester (player) and instead of being reported, was used to player's advantage. Throw the book at them, for he is smarter than the rest of us...

NERFS AND OVER-EQUIPPING
I don't believe that you will ever get the nerfs right.

Every time you nerf a class, you do so retroactively. An example of that could be agents and sneaking which has been broken since v13.0 of the patch. My concealment with leet and cloaking device is at about 900 now. Before the patch I could sneak through entire 75% hard missions. Now I can't even do 50%. If I would have known that, I would have saved about 350 of my IP points, and money on implants. Are you going to give those back to me? No you won't, but since I can't put those anywhere else, my agent char is already handicapped. This game has aged and there are new ones out there. I don't know what the numbers are, but I'm sure that newland city looks much emptier now than it did a few months ago. Aren't you worried about your bottom line?

I have an agent, which I've tried to nurture with care. According to your article, I'm an exploiter because I can wield a lvl 93 rifle at lvl 57.

How did I do it?

I. lvl 90 implants. Since I don't have enough NP skill, I enlisted the help of an NT. Paid them even. Both of us benefited. Alas by your standards, my char should not be able to use them, since they don't have enough NP. Then I went out and bought a full omni med suit. Then I chose false profession (doctor) and cast doctor treatment, and standard treatment expertise. That allowed me to be precisely 2 points above the minimum required to wear those implants. Don't even ask me about the cost of those implants...

II. Hmm, ok so now my rifle skill is +73 because of implants. So little Carrah casts rifle expertise, then sniper's bliss, then false profession trader, then deprive skill an a leet, then agility and sense, and guess what. The rifle now fits.

(Note: all of this has been accomplished by myself, and within the rules of the game.If any of you need my help in buffing, just let me know...)

Without all of the above, I'm not meeting the requirements to wear that rifle. And thus I'm exploiting. If you take that "exploit" ability away from me and other players, then, well, this will be a game of MA and doctors only (or are you also going to cut off MAs' fists when they zone and don't meet the requirements?)

And guess what, if money was no object, I could get my char even higher...

THE MORE CASH I HAVE THE BETTER I CAN "EXPLOIT"
The stores charge ridiculous prices for weapons and armor at higher levels, forcing us to do missions. Missions are anti-social, they defeat the point of an online game. With the advent of millions of credits available on e-bay, the prices have sky-rocketed. I now see lvl 82 senpai coats advertised for 2mil, there is no way that a lvl 57 char can afford it unless they either have another high lvl char to pay for it or they have won an auction. Scarcity of items and availability of cash leads to inflation...

(oh, and in order to get those coats in the first place, you have to kill mobs with 10,000HP, and how am I going to do that with a rifle that does 300avg, 600crit? I guess I will enlist the help of lvl 130+ enforcer and soldier friends of mine. They will stand there just in case things get too hairy...)

EVERYTHING in this game costs credits, and they are the hardest ones to earn. The only useful items I've found in my missions were bracers of projectile protection, and a mid (a probe!!!). What the hell is a female clan agent going to do with omni-pol forest gloves or male swimming trunks???.

The ql 90 set of 5 implants cost me about 300k (had to buy those in stores, specially tailored to my taste , tank armor 50k, the rest of the armor about additional 120k, rifle 40k, nano formulas... And on top of that I have to lvl to get the IP into right skills.

Now imagine that I started off with 10 millions. No more missions, I can wear as high of an implant as I can afford, awesome rifles, incredible armor, I'm advancing, I'm powerful, my team-mates envy my kill skills, they want me in their group, I level, explore new territories, I meet friends who have other friends who can buff me even more... I can now afford that 120K bikini suit by Miir, go and dance at the reet retreat. I can buy a yalmaha and soar. I can even try to make some nanos using your broken trade skills (where a 30K nano costs 300K to make). I would even do missions, from time to time, if the rewards were actually useful and gender/class related.

But wait, I can be cool, I can get all this on e-bay...

And that's the worse exploit of it all. That's the one that causes all the imbalance...
-------------------
P.S. Well, so lets see how being normal plays out:

With legal (lvl 50 implants) and sense/agility buff I can wear about lvl 75 armor. Woohoo, so I go to the store, and look at an item, ql 75 armor sleeves... DOH 60K!!! Hmm, well, lets go to the mission terminal and choose a mission. I'm choosing 50% mission because even with my super duper rifle, and my ql 60 armor (1400AC, including ql 50 tank) I can't outlive anything above yellow without having to run out (rooting is useless in missions, since you can't shoot through closed doors, plus melee monsters hit you from a distance, and sneaking is permanently broken)

Found one, it's in Stret West Bank. Not only is the reward 16K (will need to do 4 more missions like that) but also it's in the political zone Reward? A gray cloak (I feel kind of dull today, so maybe I will wear it to reflect my mood). None of my friends are online, so we can't do a dungeon run together. Ok, so I'm paying to play a solitude online game (I thought online games were supposed to be social), but hey the graphics are great.

So I put on my ql 70 "legal" stigma rifle. Spend 30 minutes zoning, lagging, running, hop in, hmm, 3 yellow mobs, they all jump me, they are soldiers, high projectile ac...

Guess what, my ql 70 rifle does about 60 points of damage on a yellow mob with about 1000HP. In the meantime they do that amount of damage, at twice the rate of mine (they don't miss), and there are 3 of them (and yes, I should put ip in evade ranged, but like everything else, I'm not sure that skill works either). So I zone back and forth 10 times to replenish health. Soon I get frustrated; I wish I could macro some of this... But then, I would be exploiting again...

N-th time out. I see someone running, gosh, someone to talk to... it's an omni agent, green to me, I try to be friendly and yell hi there. She turns around and runs away from me. Apparently we are in pvp area, and she would like to do a mission, and not be killed by me, the "uber" agent.

You are nerfing this game because of PVP, aren't you? I don't personally don't care that people go, pvp and get killed by someone over equipped (if any one of you does, good for you, I'm just stating my opinion . If you are not ready, DON'T GO. And if you do, then carry the biggest stick you can afford. I did pvp yesterday, just because I wanted to see what it's like. I killed 4, assisted additional 3, then got killed by a team of 2 with a doc (I could see the health bar of my target raise and fall, mostly raise, he was a soldier, how could he heal himself so quickly). Ok, so were they exploiting because they were fighting as a team, or was Carrah stupid, because she didn't start a team of her own (preferrably with 5 docs

What's the point of PVP as related to the game right now anyway? The clanners yell "lets take over 2ho", and they run to the grid, only to be slaughtered by grid camping players from the other side. Then someone yells, "lets take metmedere" back from clanners" and the situation reverses itself. But guess what. 2 hours later the servers crash, and everyone is back in their slot. The political map has not changed. The machines still are clan or omni only. Nothing has been lost or gained. Besides, who wants to deal with all the lag...

---------------------------
(NOTE: I've not read any of the other posts in the threads, if any of this has been already addressed, I apologize)

[_____________Stratoz]

I'd just like to say:

Over equiping is NOT cheating!

Exploiting BUGS to overequip IS Cheating!

[______________Enigma]

First item, if you know about a 'coven' of exploiters, what the hell are you asking for? Just go get 'em! Major exploits should be punished by banishment. Minor exploits (i.e. the 'common' exploits that 'everyone' is using) should be punished with warnings first and suspensions for additional infractions.

As for the issue of 'over-equiping': Well, duh, one whole portion of the game is geared that way. Why else would all those buffs be important? The prevention of 'over-equipping' should ONLY focus on cases where exploits were used to achieve the results. Exploits should be dealt with; legal skill buffing and maneuvering should be rewarded. If a Soldier pays for, begs for, or lucks into buffs that will allow him to upgrade his Nova-Flow (is there a soldier out there that uses anything else?) then good for him.

The key issue to me, seems to be a 'perceived' inequity between nano casters and weapon users, in particular in relation to debuffs. I believe that you are approaching it from the wrong perspective. If this issue seems to be out of whack from a game balancing perspective, then I believe that the fix is rather simple. Change the requirements on items and nanos and maybe add a new line of nanos.

A nano-class cannot cast unless they meet all the requirements: good rule. Makes debuffing a valid combat technique. Also makes the nano-class have to think more. Instead of only having that one mega-nuke that is used over and over, they will have to be ready to fall back on some mini-nukes from earlier on. Of course, you may want to lower the casting requirements a smidge to balance against the weapon users.

Weapon users can continue to use a weapon once it is equipped, regardless of what happens to their stats later: good rule. Well, maybe not "good" rule, but it works. If you believe that players are getting weapons too far above thier levels with legitimate buffing, then raise the requirements on the weapons. Personally, I'm amazed that characters can "self-buff" into weapons/armor several levels above their own. I believe that a character should have to max their self buffing just to use a weapon the same level as themselves; if they want to go up a few levels, they should have to seek out help from other classes for specialized buffing.

And as for debuffs not making any difference on weapon users, lol, how about a whole new line of nanos? I envision a line of nanos that 'de-equips' items. Think about it. Suddenly finding yourself bare-handed in combat would be inconvenient enough, but not being able to re-equip because you had to uber-buff in the first place... Then imagine trying to go to a back-up weapon, because, hey, you're smart, you're prepared for just such an occurence, when WHAM! you get hit by the right de-buff and can't even equip your back-up! I envision a variety of these nano's that could target 1) random items, 2) weapons, 3) armors, 4) Implants, and 5) Miscellaneous (ie. belts, ncu, hud items)

A lot of players wouldn't like this effect. Heck, I'll even admit that it would be a pain, combat-wise. I mean, imagine being out in BFE on a solo-mission and having an NPC unequip one of your implants... But, I believe that, overall, this would go a long way towards balancing between weapon users and nano users while still allowing for the quest to equip and use the latest and greatest.

Sorry about the length here, I'm usually more of a lurker than poster, but I believe that this issue is important enough that I wanted to take the time to comment. I've actually thought a lot more about how to make these changes, but I've tried to be as concise as possible while still getting my ideas across.

Thanks for listening.

[Betablue]

****THE COMPLETE FIX**** (DESIGNERS READ)

Step One: Give (1)one months notice prior to the following suggested changes so that players can properly prepare and meet their needs.

Step Two: Initiate the changes I have outlined below.

(Suggested Changes)

~ Create Re-allocation Booths in all Backyards.

~ When a player logs in they cannot attack or use any equipment until they visit a Re-allocation Booth in a backyard.

~ Upon entering the booth, all of the players implants, equipment and currently outfitted items are teleported to their bank. The character is now naked.

~ The character has to re-allocate all of their IPs (they had a month to plan for this).

~ After re-allocation is done that person can now leave whereupon the character can now initiate with the gaming environment properly again.

~ IMPLANTS ~
All implants are now fixed based off of the now implemented treatment scale. This means that players are balanced based off of the treatment scale and no one player will have the ability to outdo another with outfitting implants. This is now balanced.

~ Equipment ~
Equipment will only function if you have the ability to use them by normal means. Trader wrangles (should) go to a one hour duration which would allow balancing for game events or particularly high missions that a team would like to do. After the wrangle has expired, the person that received the wrangle should suffer a drain for 15 minutes of (50% skill reduction in weapons and nano abilities).

(Game Balance Issues)
Monsters health points should correspond to the above changes. Health should be randomly generated per monster reflecting a 10 percent less or greater value than an equal level character of that class. The range of health should be .90 to 1.10 times the normal health level equivallent of the class type they are. If an NT would on average have 700 health at level 50 for instance if encountering an NT mob he or she should have 700 x .90 to 1.10 health.

(PvP)
Shops in the political zones should only be accessible by the (side) controlling them. EX. 2HO shops should only allow Omni inside. This would eliminate shop jumping. Furthermore, if the side player enters a shop he or she is not allowed to leave the shop in the Political zone for 5 minutes. Keep the invulnerability setting in place but boost it to 20 seconds instead of 15 seconds due to possible slow zoning issues.

~Note~ This fixes the exploit that agents using FP-Soldier and Soldiers do with the Reflect shield whereupon they hop from shop to shop to avoid the drain effects.

((ITEM CHANGES))
Return the scopes and range increasers back to normal range or remove them fully from the game. A deck increaser should increase NF range to the maximum it states. The same with scopes. The 40m range was an incorrect attitude regarding this.

Place a time limit penalty on swapping weapons and make it equivallent to that of changing NCUs in decks. This fixes the advantage of Soldiers in PvP and allows variation.

(Experience)
Experience should be awarded to those victorious in PvP (OUTSIDE) of arenas. Experience should not be awarded if the person killed is suffering rez effects. Mark the kills in a log that cannot be deleted, noting the time and name - accessible by the /playerkill command.
EX..
/playerkill
01:23:30 Freshman Leoness
01:27:12 Rookie Buchard

This would allow for logs to be reviewed if persons try to exploit experience. It would also encourage PvP combat regardless of the balances in place.

This is a sample sketch of what should be done.

To summarize:
Remove all equipment
Re-allocate IPs
Make equipment useable by current abilities.
Make changes to the PvP environment.

Sincerely,
Cybermax a.k.a. Drabin

[______________Santse]

I really don't get how 'overequipping' is defined to begin with. I mean the reality of this game is: THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE PLAYERS 'BETTER' THEN YOU! So, what! I mean the wide variety of game play possible in this game is what makes it interesting.

Oh, so you get killed by some ueber player in PvP - Well, if you feel like getting back at him...then take the time and effort to get your character strong enough...be creative..innovative! - And for crying out loud: STOP THE WHINING!

Overequipping, generally, is the result of quite some intricate and creative cooperation between players. - In my opinion thats GOOD. If we Agents weren't allowed to overequip...well, we would really suck..not only in PvP ..but also in PvM. It's bad enough as it is already. We get ONE special..that's it - AND it can only be used ONCE in a combat situation!

About any profession out there (not to mention the self-healers) will whoop an Agent w/o having to really do anything strategical as it is right now. If an Agent wants to win..it will invariably involve roots and a lot of running. Great..and now a bunch of whiners (IMHO) is asking for an overequipping nerf, because they lack the time, energy, innovation and creativity to deal w/this very complex game. You know what: GO PLAY EQ OR DAOC! That's for folks like you.

Let's say they un-equip everything that you needed to buff for to get it equipped (i.e. Armor, Weapons, etc.) - OK..so? What does that do for the overall game play? Does it ensure that there aren't any 'BETTER' players than you? - No, it doesn't. So what are you going to whine about next?