"Exploits, Nerfs, Banning and Overequipping" by Gaute Godager

[____________MadSheep]

I had planned to read all the thread but after 5 pages full of interesting articles, I give up and put my two (Euro)cents in it.

- exploiters : ban them.
- overequipping :
Why not have a difference between PvM and PvP :
Put rules on overequipping only for PvP and diminish PvM difficulty.
This way :
- poeple who want to twink will be able to do it. They will even be able to win tons of money they will never be able to use. They will spend time killing MOBs in the fastest possible way. What's the problem if they like it. On the other hand, they will not be able to use this in PvP against players who don't want (or have time to) twink.
-poeple who wants to enjoy their character trough roleplay and event will be able to do it and also to level up and chalenge MOBs in a fair way. They will even be able to PvP if they feel the need to.

For the way to go, I will suggest the hard way :
Everything stop working but stay equipped.

[Skymarshal]

This is my thoughts.... on over equiping. There is no such thing. If i can click the button and the gun goes in my hand then it is EQUIPED. End of story, if i have to buff every ten minuites to try to use a gun that does cr*p for dmg, then I say this:

1. My soldier will be deleted.
2. The game will be deleted.
3. Funcom wont get my money.

The game is already hard enough. I have spent countless hours trying to get to use the gun that I have, and if it is all screwed up over some whinning I just wont play. It's frustrating enough to lose endless amounts of xp to monsters that hit so hard, and provide very little of that same xp (that is IF you can kill them) I cant runn a misson full of grays myself, and the rare ocasion that i can there is no point cause the xp, credit, or item reward is a joke. If alof a sudden my gun only does half the damagecase im half its level, then I don't know what to do anymore and I say AO is for the birds.

Just my very frustrated two cents.

-Skymarshal
-LVL 50 Soldier - RK1

-edited for spelling

[______________Icaria]

I've been reading about, and experiencing, many of the problems mentioned here. I also have been approached by many different players for help over the months I have been in game. And I have had more than my fair share of exchanges with the folks at "support@". I have won, and lost and broken even. But I have listened and I have learned.

Yes, some of the problems are in the game itself and I'm happy those problems are fading just about every patch.

But some things are learned by digging and asking and playing the game.

How many are aware that by moving the main slider two or three mouse clicks left of center and then moving the internal good/bad slider to full or partial bad they will get a better choice of missions and the missions they get will be well within their success range?

How many remember to check their Agg/Def slider to be sure it's still at full Agg? I have NO idea how mine moved. Yeah, right.

How many with rifles and machine guns have paid any attention to "ranged init" skill? For some it's not green but it still makes a big difference.

And while you're there try <Shift><LeftClick> on other skills and see how they might have an effect. Don't count on the color to determine importance.

What other little gems are out there we haven't learned about yet? Have you tried talking with others and learning, rather than listening to the whining and crying? There's many that take great pleasure in helping others, all you have to do is ask. I have found that when I am patient I can always find answers. I may not like them sometimes, but they ARE answers.

Some players say the game is frustrating. Some say it's a lot of fun. Some say it's a royal pain. Some say it's unplayable. Some say it's the best game they have ever played. The fun part is they are ALL correct in what they say, individually. Think about that for a bit. Why would one group say it's the greatest while another says it's not playable? And which group is far ahead in the enjoyment spectrum? Is there a possibilty one group is working at learning while the other thinks if they whine enough they wil have it all handed to them?

[_______________Lozer]

really honistly how much are you overequiped..... hummm lets think about this..... if your level 100 solger and you have a ql 200 novaflow.

hummm....
AssaultRifle 785
LR_EnergyWeapon 524
Burst 654
FlingShot 437

at level 100 you should have around 450 natural skill (unbuffed no implants) ok so with unbuffed your 50% overequiped....

if you have max treatment you could have ql130-140 implants. withc would give 140-150 AssaultRifle. so now you have 590 skill (un buffed with implanst) witch would put you at aproximently 25% overequiped.

lets add in Assault Rifle Mastery +60 and Assault Rifle Expertise +20 soooo you have 670 skill (buffed with implants) witch puts you at 15% overequiped.....

hummmmmmmmmm i see a pattern here don't you? basicly in this senero a level 100 solger should be able to equip a level 200 novaflow and not even feel the effects of this so called nerf.


lets look at my caricter.... 327 shotgun skill on my nt... my shotgun requires 408 skill... so i am 19% over equiped. i also will not feel the effects of this so called nerf...

my TWINKED enforcer level 10 compleat with a ql 60 support beam WILL feel these effects. 112 skill with the requirments on the wepon of 303 that is a 63% overequip! This caricter WILL feel the effects of the nerf badly... but then again this caicter is sevearly overpowered as is.


IN CONCLUSION:

who here will actually FEEL the effects of this nerf? common really WHO! traders will feel the effects unless there draining there targuts continusly. WITCH I FEEL THEY SHOULD DO ANYWAY! the population that will actually feel the effects of this "nerf" is very small if no one at all. the only ones that MAY feel the effects are heavly twinked caricters.

so basicly for most players that are over level 40 will NOT fell the effects of this "nerf"

most people will feel:.......
Nothing
no how
no way
no
nada

[___________cptspanky]

I am relatively new to the game and have not developed many connections or high level characters and thus have not been involved eeply in overequiping or exploiting. One might think then that I would be opposed to these things but I am not totally. I do think exploits are wrong but i think overequiping is a cool part of the game. I am a heaavy RPG player and notice that the best RPGs are fantastic envirments with realistic social interactions. JUst like in real life, i feel that in an RPG people with more connections get better things and get places faster. Overequiping itself engorages sociability and also engourages new places to build connections and a high level chaacter to base thier new and exciting ones off of. I think that overequiping is perfect the way it it is but that duping exploits are bad. Overequiping reards diligant long term players with connections and gives new ones something to look forward to.

Thankyou

[Maddogg]

I think the best way to prevent overequiping would be to put in lvl
or title requirements in all weapons,armor items etc. etc. etc.

[_______________Orb!t]

yes, ban over-equipping and make a large percent of nanos completely and utterly useless.. that's how we like it..

[____________Anastazi]

Opinions are interesting, most of us has one, and is ultimately willing to espouse to any listener that still draws breath.

Exploiting is cheating. Using a known game error to your advantage should be a 2 time warning 3rd time ban. This policy may in effect, since I havent used exploits that I know about I havent had to experience it.

Over equipping is steeped in the game. Its a part of the design.
Otherwise why give you 100 skill points in Treatment at the implant terminal.


I would like to read some one else's comments on this.


A

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Anastazi
Opinions are interesting, most of us has one, and is ultimately willing to espouse to any listener that still draws breath.

Exploiting is cheating. Using a known game error to your advantage should be a 2 time warning 3rd time ban. This policy may in effect, since I havent used exploits that I know about I havent had to experience it.

Over equipping is steeped in the game. Its a part of the design.
Otherwise why give you 100 skill points in Treatment at the implant terminal.


I would like to read some one else's comments on this.


A

Alot of things are part of the design, but things change when it turns out it doesnt work very well for the majority of the players, or if it is unbalancing. Overequipping is unbalancing, and mobs are very tough because of it, if they turn down the effect of overequipping, they also turn down mob toughness. For weapon profs this means you cant use the ql 200 gun as early as you could, but when you finally can use it, it will be much better compared to how it is atm.

[___________KillBilly]

Originally posted by Garzu


Alot of things are part of the design, but things change when it turns out it doesnt work very well for the majority of the players, or if it is unbalancing. Overequipping is unbalancing, and mobs are very tough because of it, if they turn down the effect of overequipping, they also turn down mob toughness. For weapon profs this means you cant use the ql 200 gun as early as you could, but when you finally can use it, it will be much better compared to how it is atm.

that is a great line of reasoning. mybe a good idea for funcom would be to have the mission terminals assign mobs acording to hp and equipment, then give a moderate damage bonus for for the overequiped weapon in a mission so it is not all for not. and give a small to moderate penalty for over 30% in pvp so it would still be worth overequiping but wouldnt make you unstopable

[______________Obitus]

Originally posted by Garzu
Alot of things are part of the design, but things change when it turns out it doesnt work very well for the majority of the players, or if it is unbalancing. Overequipping is unbalancing, and mobs are very tough because of it, if they turn down the effect of overequipping, they also turn down mob toughness. For weapon profs this means you cant use the ql 200 gun as early as you could, but when you finally can use it, it will be much better compared to how it is atm.

I disagree with you on this Garzu...

I think that overequipping (for the most part) is fine as it is. The only weapons I would question are the ones that only have one requirement for use. For the NTs that can't or rather, don't overequip a weapon, I think that some of your range should be restored and your pillows should be restored. I think this would rebalance the game for NTs.

I also want to point out (as several of the other posters here have) that overequipping is not exploiting and it really disturbs me to see the two terms being used as if they are interchangeable. Putting on the best armor and weapons within the confines of the rules of the game is nothing more than striving to be the best you can be.... Using an exploit, like duping, trading no-drop/trade items, and the double equipping of implants or armor is just plain cheating. Hence, it has been removed.

I do think that the HP and AC needs to be reduced on most mobs to make the game more viable for solo missions for all professions. Three yellow mobs in the main room is a nightmare for any charachter over lvl 100, and probably for under 100 too. You can't choose a 50% mission because you need to avoid grey mobs, but if you chose even a 55% mission, you will most likely face many yellows and some oranges in your mission. Certainly there should be a variety of mobs, but to put anything more than a dark yellow in a 55% mission is rediculous. If a person want's to fight red mobs, let them choose a harder mission.

I would also suggest more mob types and levels.

[________________Shen]

Originally posted by Mr Saturn
The problems i am having on my p3 850 128MB RAM win ME computer aren't being paid any attention to by you or by support. To wrap it up for you for the hundredth or so time, my computer crashes due to an error in the clientr.exe file, an abnormal program termination reported by the microsoft visual C++ library. I have had this problem no matter what i did, and i'm sure it's not my computer or hardware, since other people have the same damn problem as me, many more aquiring it since your latest patch

Get something other than ME and I bet it solves your problem. Windows ME is a joke. It sucks. Get rid of it.

[________________Shen]

Just thought I'd post this...somewhere.

It took me longer to install this game than it did to defrag a 40gb HD.

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Orb!t
yes, ban over-equipping and make a large percent of nanos completely and utterly useless.. that's how we like it..

YES! Please do... and can we also delete all armor and make mobs twice as hard as well!!!! That way we can all go to the nearest backyard and I can try to kill 620,000 leets for my next level!!!! YAY!!!

/me wonders why I ever started an agent

/me wonders why I wondered about the agent

/me wonders why I ever started this game

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Shen


Fixing overequipping will balance the classes. Once the game has balance and everything works you'll see more content. Personally...I'd rather have it WORK then have more bells and whistles.

COMPLETELY WRONG!!!! It will only further imbalance the classes. How can you even begin to think this.... by stopping overequipping what will happen is simple... NT's and Meta's will remain unaffected while every other class gets hurt.... so Meta's, who many believe are already the strongest class, will not be affected while everyone else gets worse... this doesn't seem to make much sense...... Agents guns of equal level are weaker than other classes weapons, so it is just wonderful to think that we will be soon able to do half the damage! after this were put in you'd then have to have a monster and player rebalancing... I'm tired of seeing all this time put into a PvP game that doesn't exist.

[Grupert]

Originally posted by eleetist


Agents guns of equal level are weaker than other classes weapons, so it is just wonderful to think that we will be soon able to do half the damage! after this were put in you'd then have to have a monster and player rebalancing...

Well, don't know about you, but I can, as an agent, self buff into a gun 75% - 80% over my lvl. Now I'm 82, been using a 130 for some time now, depending on the rifle, I could go up to a 165 +/- 5 QL lvls. All with, as I said, Agent buffs. And with 125-130 rifle implants (full set). Lvl 2-3 more times, might be able to get into 140ish implants.......
I think if the plan goes into effect, a well designed Agent would be most nasty in PVP.......

Lt. Grupert
Division 9 R.S.G.E.
lvl 82 Agent RK1

[______________Nelida]

different Nuke hot-key. There's that little timer thing that runs once for the unequip and again for the equip, eh? And, while the rest of us are watching OUR little timer bars what, prey tell, are YOU doing TO us? "It ain't hard"...go away.

Originally posted by Tal Cerav
It's simple, really. If your skills/stats drop below what it takes to use it, it should stop working. All the self buffers can just refresh their buffs. All the people who got other character types to buff them better be grouping with those types so they can be rebuffed. Simple.


Your megagun stops working because your buff runs out, equip a lower ql. That's what I do with a nanomage now... debuff keeps me from using my big nuke I use the one I used 3 levels ago. It ain't hard.

[___________D.Shaffer]

Originally posted by eleetist
COMPLETELY WRONG!!!! It will only further imbalance the classes. How can you even begin to think this.... by stopping overequipping what will happen is simple... NT's and Meta's will remain unaffected while every other class gets hurt....

Yes, insult the NanoTechs and the Meta's, I'm sure that's going to get MANY of them to support agents.

A: Nanotechs have severe problems if they ever get hit by a matter creation debuff. There are a couple general formula's out there to debuff this stat. Unlike people with guns, they CAN NOT use a nanoprog if they dont have the stat up. This means you're going to get the same effects if we get debuffed. We're both doing smaller amounts of damage, the weapon user because his weapon stats go down, the nano user because he's shifting to a 'lower' set of nanoprogs.

B: Nanotechs rely on their nanopool to use their main attack strength. Weapon users have a LOT more combat endurance because of this. It might not matter much in a one on one, but in PvM with lots of mobs, or in PvP in gangs, they're going to run out of nano fairly fast and then they're sitting ducks. Anyone with a lot of Hitpoints is generally going to have an advantage because the Nano user is likely gonna run out of nano and be fish bait if he doesnt run.

C: Meta pets, and pets users in general, are going to be severely hampered by this change if they dont alter the way pets work. I think this DOES need to be changed but you're going to get a major powering down of the meta's if the overequip rule alterations go through. (You DID read that part about pets going useless if they dont have the skill up, correct?)

D: Time to get out attacks. Nanotech rely on nanoprogs to cause damage. These take time to cast. At higher levels, these require LOTS of nano to use (see B) and a fairly hefty delay. During this delay, you can see we're charging up the attack if you're paying attention. During this time when nanotechs are charging up the attack, people with weapons can hit burst, fling, full auto, and do massive damage instantaneously.

E: There really ISNT that much out there to increase the matter creation skill of a nanotech other then implants and some fairly hard to find items and with the change in treatment, they arent going to get that much signifigant a boost from it. On the other hand, the weapon users usually have some fairly nice, long lasting buffs to weapon skills AND generally have fairly nice armor buffs that any NT would love to have. NT's dont have MC buffs and little to no armor buffs that are very useful.

And for a completely DIFFERENT tangent, what is it with this influx of 'Dont do this or I leave' posts? Havent you guys ever heard of COMPROMISE? How about POSSIBLY considering the other camps point of view?

[______________Nelida]

Of course I'm a Trader so this idea would do TWO things for/to me;
1. I could sit at Athen whompa and wrangle players ALL day long and be insanely rich.
2. I could try and run a mission or hunt and be endlessly spammed by all of Rubika looking for a wrangle cause they just died.

Hmmm...the Good, and the Bad.

Funcom, if you implement THIS idea please give Traders a special Tell-filter so we can filter all tells with the word "wrangle" into an 'answering machine'.
Actually why don't you give us this anyway.

The implant thing doesn't work for me...I spend far too long in shops anyway.

Originally posted by Wild Weasel
The answer to all the over-equipping issues is pretty easy actually.

Cause everyone to lose ALL of their items on death and have to recover them at the reclaim terminal.

This includes armor and implants...

Currently, there is no real penalty for death, which I find kind of a pointless.

Eventually, everyone dies, and will have re-equip items..

[______________Nelida]

There are SO many broken professions that are contributing to this sense of a lack of balance that it would be MUCH wiser for Funcom to fix all that is broken INSTEAD of trying to balance by subtraction. You've already CREATED balance by OMISSION, now try to correct it my adding content and fixing broken content. If you continue Balance BY Subtraction you'll end up with a big fat ZERO in the end. I'd not think many of us would continue to pay for nothing.

And heed Nozzzs's comment;
"If I wanted to be in a world where mediocrity was rewarded while those who work hard to push the limits are scorned I would turn off my computer and go for a walk."
This exactly what is wrong with much of society today...try to NOT make it what is wrong with your game.

Originally posted by Nozzzs
I play a level 100 Trader and I look back fondly at the time when I could function against mobs near my level. Unfortunatley there exists a sudden boom in damage output and speed in mobs. One minute you can keep up, next minute they are shooting twice as fast and hitting for 300+ damage each time...and they are green. Trust me on this..I am pretty well optimized for my profession..In groups I can be very useful but it is always a crap shoot.

Presently I mezz mobs and they keep shooting 4-5 times before they stop. Meanwhile I'm slamming my ESC key trying to stop from shooting them. (it's impossible for a trader to fight with aggro low..shotguns are too slow and heals now reset our attack timers) And my nanos now force me to shoot at the mobs!

My ransacks and such don't stop mobs from using huge nanos on me or lower their damage output.

My AC debuffs don't increase my damage to them.

My charms are a joke and should be removed from the game.

Sometimes a green mob will resist 4-5 nanos in a row...

etc..etc..etc...


These are issues of GAME MECHANICS that need to be addressed before Funcom tries playing GOD again.
I have no problem with using the proposed system, allowing people to over-equip but reducing the effectiveness of items when the skills arent met.

however I see this whole thing as a manpower issue. Presently it would be ridiculous to spend thousands of man/woman hours on these drastic measures when so many issues have gone to Patch Hell.

Maybe it's not fair, but I can't help but charcterize people who are so vehement against over-equiping as intrusive, obsessed people who look into other people's windows to see if they are breaking the rules. Take care of YOUR OWN issues wit hthe game. It is, after all, a game. Being such, it should be acceptable that different people use different strategies to achieve different goals. Some people do sports for fun and exercise, others because they relish competition, and others because they want money and fame.

As a person who doesn't enjoy PvP I avoid it. That simple. If I chose to do it and found my character was grossly unprepared I would either set out to prepare him or do something else.


If I wanted to be in a world where mediocrity was rewarded while those who work hard to push the limits are scorned I would turn off my computer and go for a walk!


Relax, play the game, and find some balance before asking Funcom to give it to you. Oh, yeah, and have fun doing it..


Nozzzs