"Exploits, Nerfs, Banning and Overequipping" by Gaute Godager

[Cohhen]

..... part two

So you might say "overequipping" is unfair to some classes. Take NTs for example. They rely on their ability to dish out damge through their offensive nanos. So why not try to change the system in that way that you calculate debuffs different than "normal" skill lvls. Say a NT is buffing himself up for a fight and then he is able to use is best damge nano. So now he gets debuffed; why not just make him able to use that nano with reduces effectivness (similar to weapons). Same would be applicable to healing nanos for example. This would even out the current system a bit I think.

****
addendum: umm why do ya think NT have GREEN nano resist, so they're less likely to get debuffed anyway
****

But it is important to understand that not everything has to funtion in similar ways (with limited variety of development) to yield a balanced result, meaning a balanced game, in the END.
Take Metas for example they do not get to "overequip" huge guns but still they ARE very competetive right now by using pets way over their lvl and stuff.

[Dhurdahl]

Regarding exploiters/cheats.... You need to be harder... If a char is banned then should all chars connected to that credit card be banned also. Plus I think that no further transactions should be allow with that card..aka that PC can't use it to reregister again!

Over-equiping: I define that as using an item that you don't have the current skill for! May that be guns/armour/NFs/NCU/maps or what not..

I have no problem with a lvl55 Enf (Gummizluv) running around with a QL106 weapon as long as he has the skill for it.


So I'm for option nr3... aka fully dissable equipment you don't have the skill for.
BUT there are as mentioned, problems with it... mostly implants problems...
So I would suggest that implants would be treated diff from the rest of the equipment. 1) req based on natural, unbuffed ability. 2) can't be debuffed.
For most casters this would not change gameplay that much, but for the rest of the classes it would!! So a mob rebalance is needed if this is done.
This option would also increase the benefit of teams.. If you want all your equipment working, then you need a good balanced team consisting of multiple classes.


5) Yes I think that all equipment should be treated equally. Aka if your Int gets debuffed, you may drop low enough in Navigation to loose the map of the current zone!
Hum... NCU's dissabled when debuffed.... what about the NF in there then? Not able to add new buffs while debuffed ??(if used NCU is higher then current)

[_______________Spago]

Well, for me the point is simple :
I have a char a BIt overequipped, not very much, but some items is well above my level ..
FIRST OF ALL, keep in mind that i dont Pvp, i am not interested in that .... so ...
What would i do if you take away some of my "powers" ?
I will simply quit the game. No whining, not flaming at all, i will just quit in silence. This cause i WORKED for such items , and if you reduce theyr effectiveness, the time spent to get it become TOO MUCH compared to the effectiveness of the item, then i will feel GREATLY NERFED.
And after playng 2 years of EQ, i cant stand NERFS anymore.
My suggestion ? Open ANOTHER DIMENSION, where you implement your new code, so, who want to play on a BALANCED ground, will play there, but who will feel NERFED and in some way "raped" will stay on RK1 and 2.
Just my 2 cents ...

[__________WGMelchior]

Equipping an item that you can't equip by yourself is overequipping. This in itself isn't anything bad.


The bad thing is all the twinkers. They unbalance the game by giving low level characters things they possibly can't get by themselves. Most MUDs and online games has this as a bannable offence. Not AO. Why? Probably because this isn't a RPgame at all anymore. No one is every thinking in terms of their character.

It's also really hard to check up, but it's still in the greyzone. It's not actually supported by the game, but you can find workarounds.


And yes, there is no other way than one warning, then ban. Maybe ban at once if the player openly acknowledge that they know that they exploited, and that they did it on purpose. And since when does Funcom depend on naivety? They said we would have the 'benefit of doubt' when it came to item reimbursals... Fat chance!

[Redhill]

I think one way to take a bite out of the uber twinking players would be to add a maximum amount of money you can store in the bank, either based on title (although level 15 is very different from level 49) or level. This would stop level 15 agents (for example) running around with 3 million credits to spend on implants and uber rifles, and then sitting on a rooftop in meetmedere or making stret west unsafe for any 'average' players who want to do a mission there.

This would make buying and selling money on E-bay less practical, I doubt many people would want to sell huge amounts of credits and then have to spend the next two weeks giving them out in small, daily amounts.

Of course people twinking their new characters or guild mates will still be able to buy all the implants, equipment and pass them over.


The best solution to over-equiping in my mind is too red out items as diablo2 does. If your stats, including buffs currently running and implants, dont currently meet the requirements, the item wont work for you. But it wont be unnequipped, so you dont have to worry about inven space and such.

Being debuffed in PvP would mean whipping out a lower QL weapon, much like nanotechs have to use a lower QL nuke.

Having your armour stats debuffed could cause serious problems, having to change 7/8 pieces of armour because your debuffed is just stupid, perhaps armour would have to be an exception, and this way players obsessed with being 'better' than everyone else could waste all their time on armour.

I think implants would have to be an exception aswell, once they're in, they're in and you have the benefits until you remove them again. The biggest problem here is ramping up treatment with implants, then putting in bigger implants which ramp up treatment and putting in bigger implants again and so on. So perhaps removing treatment implants altogether, or making them less common, is an option (I dont know how much doc's use treatment)

This would make traders more popular for grouping aswell, just like a nanotech has to have a bigger nuke to benefit from a MP's buffs, a soldier has to have a bigger westinghouse in his pocket to make best use of wrangle's. This wouldnt be too painfull as in a couple of levels your higher QL weapon will become your main weapon, and your main weapon becomes your lower QL weapon (If you PvP).

Needing to carry around 3 identical weapons of different QL's does seem a bit strange though and of course MA's become even more appealing.

(I play a fixer, before anyone thinks this is biased towards casters.)

[Doctorkain]

I'm beginning to think the simplest option is to just red-out D2 style weapons and equipment you're not capable of using.

But! you cry, "The debuffers will become excessive and uber!"

Simple: debuffs will be specially checked NOT to break equipment - when hit with a debuff, if the char could equip/use that item without the debuff, it stays perfectly useable. The penalty from the debuff, is of course what the debuff does.

The same rule goes to casters - if they can use those nano kits, those offensive nanos, or those buffs, then by golly they get to keep using them.

The instant this is said, we all think "then debuffs are useless right?". The counter-action is simple: increase the power of debuffs. Instead of taking off only 56 points at level 65, take off a good 75-100. Their equipment wouldn't break, they'd be fully functional - but the Enforcer would crit far less. The doc would heal on the minimum end of the spell more. The NT would hit for low-end damage with his nuke, and also have a harder time nuking high-resist players.

Do NOT, and I repeat do NOT let casters use anything uploaded - I can upload nanos far, far above my own level with the aid of friends right now, and this would throw game balance out of whack. Like I said above - D2's 'make red, then break' system should work fine if the debuff changes are also made.

Possible exceptions for these rules might be implants & NCU belts, and also possibly armor is the players desire. But one thing is clear - with these changes in place, FunCom -must- make the monsters playable for even-level chars again. I over-equip regularly ONLY for monsters, which is kinda sad.

Edit Note: This is the way I think debuffs should work and the way I think FunCom wanted them to work - as a skill decrease, dropping your skills... not as a nano-lockout like so many use them today.

[_______________Bjond]

Well, this article makes me feel like canceling my AO account. Basically, the lead designer is working weekends plotting how to destroy the most fun I have in the game. No, this isn't exploiting, it's twinking my other characters. Hell, I don't even PvP them, just see how much high QL gear I can stuff them into (well, and a wee bit of token farming ).

The whole article talks about how he's out to nerf things -- he doesn't mention one single item, not even a tiny thing, that could even remotely be called an improvement to any class or a means to make the game more fun. This is why AO gets less fun each patch. The lead designer doesn't spend his time thinking of ways to make it fun. He spends his time thinking of ways to catch all those dirty nasty exploiters (of which I've not yet met any and thus who don't interest me at all). And, when he's not doing that, he ponders how to stomp out all the ways to play the game that he didn't think of when the game started.

Thinking back to EQ, there was a huge uproar over twinking (over-equiping in AO terms) in the early days when maybe only a handful of people were doing it. A couple months after that, twinking is the one of the major draws keeping folks playing and it's pratically a cottege industry now. The same could eventually hold true in AO, as well. If you can't give great gear to your second character and have it make a difference, what's the point of starting another character?

I don't even see why he sees it as a problem. Anyone can do it, so it's not a balance issue. The only time this could be unbalancing is when only certain classes could over-equip and then it's an issue of balancing that class not one of stopping all overequiping. I think that a move to halt or cap over-equiping would simply shorten the lifetime of the game. I don't want to play another weak newbie -- I get enough of that playing the high level game (everyone is underpowered at upper levels).

Actually, fist users can't over-equip a weapon due to a very old bug. That's an imbalance that has been ignored for a long long time. Fist+weapon wasn't even mentioned, though. Just lots of ways to halt overequiping. Guess he didn't learn anything from the last time he tried it. It wasn't the typical Funcom ineptness of the overequip nerf almost in 12.6 that was the problem, it was that overequiping was nerfed at all.

The bit about nano-casters suffering from debuffs worse than weapon users is just sophistry. It's been that way from day one and it's balanced by the ridiculous ease of falling back to a lower nano and also by the ease of obtaining nanos, which just lie there all sorted and ready to buy from any shop. It also doesn't address pet users, who are rather immune to debuffs. Their pets are their weapons and those are summoned long before the debuff hits and are often summoned after obtaining a high level MP mastery buff (basically over-equiping a pet). If this is such a problem for docs and NTs, give them a debuff-resist nano or a debuff-cleaner nano.

BTW, if the game was bug-free and more or lessed balanced in PvP and PvE, I'd say go for it. Chase down and crucify all the exploiters you can find; bite their heads off and drink their blood. Knock yourself out. The game is so far from that point that any thought of a "preemptive strike" against exploiters is a waste of effort.

IMHO, we should just strap this guy up and toss him in a padded cell for his own safety. You know .. before all those evil exploiters band together, form a local chapter of the Secret Society of the Iluminati, and plot to hijack him and all his black helicopters to Zanzibar.

---

Rhetoric aside, here are my answers to each summary point:

1. What exploiters? I've not seen any on Ka-2. I know IP-exploiters were big on Ka-1 at one time. So, do an IP wipe. It's not as if you haven't had thousands of requests for an IP wipe due to solely to nerfs destroying characters, much less exploiters.

2. If you trip over an exploiter, kick him or something, but don't waste time on a snipe hunt or on plotting new nerfs. Build on the game you did release, not on the game you wish you had released. Surfers have a phrase for this: "ride the wave you're on."

3. You should encourage and support over-equiping & twinking. It's part of the game as it is now and it extends the lifetime of the game by encouraging second, third, and more characters. Fix the fist+weapon bug (it's only been 4 months of "working on it" now). Roll back the comp-lit buff nerf and the clinic nerf. Fix portable surgery kits. Put tutoring into the game. Give nano-casters a debuff defense or cleaner. Add a pan-character bank. It's a big wave and will only get bigger. You'll wipe out if you bail now.

4. No more nerfs ever. Instead of "what can I take away to balance things", think "what can I give to restore balance". No one likes to pay to have their efforts stolen. That's what nerfs do.

[__________Spacegipsy]

Exploiters/Cheaters:

For serious exploits (duping, IP cheats etc.) - warn them - ban them - end of story.
You mention in that article that 60% of the 628 people you've banned before come from one "Faction". What do yu mean? One Guild? There actually was/is a Guild that had way over 300 people??? I think it's not fair to put something out like this which now will leave open room for speculations. I for one don't like to be dealing with exploiters - so either name "horse and rider" (German expression), or leave stuff like that out. It's not fair to all the big guilds out there who are honest.

@ CaptFallout: leave out personal accusations for which you have no proof - or do ya?

Over-Equipping:

Much over-equipping is done without any use of exploits: getting buffed, finding a trader to wrangle you... and so on and so forth.
Why do people over-equip? Hell, because even with my (slightly) over-equipped armor and (quite a bit) over-equipped Rifle I might die to a green MoB in a mission (Lvl 79 Agent). So if yu disable over-equipping or change it in *any* way, change MoBs first.
All was over-equipped without exploiting, just by using spells.
If like the idea of reducing the *effects* of over-equipped stuff, this counting for all profs, so that casters are no longer at a disadvantage.
Armor: leave as is, *all* profs can over-equip armor with respective buffs. Put buffs for psychic and int in, so casters get this advantage as well.
Weapons/Nano: make all function a little less effective when debuffed. This way Nanos could be overequipped as well (with the respective MP masteries), but they'd function less effectively when the buffs run out or when debuffed by MoB.

I think this way everybody would be happy and nobody at a too great disadvantage.

I could also go along with an IP-Reset for all.
But I reckon that might be by far too complicated and too many things could go wrong.

Whatever you do in the end: test it thoroughly and listen to the players testing it. People are already very upset as is (I hear daily complaints left and right from just about all profs not being able to solo green MoBs in missions) - if you hit us all with the nerf bat once more without recompensation it might be the last straw for most...

[_________Chaosengine]

1) All exploiters should get 1 warning and then banned. The question is whether they persistantly do this! Example: A person could, through some mis-chance, create an exploit. Now whether they continue to do this is the question. If they continue then ban them all the way Jobe!

2) Please please please..do not..I REPEAT DO NOT tramp and walk all over my hard work! Yes I said hard work! I have spent many many hours trying to over-equip my character to an extent where she is effective in missions. I takes me in excess of half an hour to complete missions, sometimes an hour. I don't see how using ingame mechanics to your advantage that are accessible to ALL players needs revising in any shape or form!

Players who twink are players who spend more time playing the game!! Thats it! I spend more time, therefore I collect more items, I amass more money and therefore I can buy better equiptment and weapons and the buffs required to use those items.

I repeat once more! Do not destroy my hard work please. Its taken me 2 re-rolls to get this far.

[_______________Spago]

Damn, i see all the problems here come from twinked chars ...
Ok, i will try to explain my point :
I play my main char, then all of a sudden, i dont like him anymore, or i get bored with the game .. what could i do ? obviously, i will start a new char ...BUT :
Is killing leet fun ? GOD no way !
I will twink my new char to try to get rid of the early levels as soon as possible !
If you prevent me from doing this , probably i will quit.
Now, some people say that it is UNFAIr to twink a low level char , but lest face it, how could you exactly tell what is FAIR and what not ? In my point of view, it is UNFAIR to force me to play in a way that DOESNT enjoy me.
I already crawled thru low levels with my main, why should i do it again, if it dont give me any fun ?
Someone may argue that my twinked char have an advantage against not twinked chars of the same level , well, what you can do against it ? It is like in real life , there are people rich and people poor, you cant do anything against it, just LIVE with it !
And please, remember : THIS IS A GAME, let people play it THE WAY they enjoy it ! And dont tell me that twinked chars ruin your gaming experience, cause that is only JEALOUSY ! You dont like twinked chars ? just avoid em !
Btw, this is just my personal opinion, but i think many would agree with me.

[Raik]

... you got me worried...

The exploiting Part does not need to be discussed.
Out, I say.
Nobody _accidentally_ bumps into hundreds of million credits, or wakes up one morning with an extra 100.000 IP...
IF you are exploiting, you know exactly what the hell you are doing there - so you should take the responsibility for your actions.

Over-equipping is a whole different matter.
My lvl 67 Atrox Fixer is using a complete set of QL 90 Elite Armor.
Occasionally I slap on a QL 73 Light-Tank, that I can buff myself into using.
Obviously I needed help with the higher QL Elite - but here is the punch line:

Im a Fixer. And I die. Often. Even with a Doc.
Im talking 1600 / 2000 HP and 1500 / 1800 / 2100 AC here.
(the higher values obviously being with Tank armor and Doctor / Engineer Buffs on)
My steady Team features an Engi, Meta, a Medic and myself.
We are taking on Oranges, and since 2500xp per kill is VERY slow at our level range (62 - 75) we take them on in crowds...
Most of our Targets are Social, low orange to light red MOB's.

Most of the time we are doing well we have been playing as a Team for some time now, and crowd control is our daily business - but according to my fellow Team members they give much credit to my QL 103 Mausser and my 'over-equipped' high AC for that...

Well - the point is... I have been wanting to change away from my Mausser for some time now - I spent a grand total of 234000 IP on various weapon skills, just so one day I will be able to Dual-wield OT Vipers.
In the Meantime i have been able to equip Suppressors and Vipers in the QL 70-86 Range... and you wanna know what? The dont cut it.
My Mausser can crit for 540, burst for as high as 790 and regular shots range anywhere from 12 to 270 damage.
Bursting for 790, followed by a crit of around 540 on the first attack is something that would make me put on my dirtiest grin...
IF it would do more than put a dent on my Pulls makeup.
I dont know just how much HP these MOBs have at our level - but not scrathing it for more than 1/8th of its total health when im doing close to 1300 Damage just makes me wanna stand in the corner.

new scenario:
lets assume you put in a hard cap on equipment - i.e. I wont be able to equip anything I would need buffs to get into.
My Armor would top out at around QL ~70. meaning i would not even be able to equip elite yet. so top AC would be around 1300 with Light-Tank on. I would be holding a QL ~70 Mausser as well... and that mainly to keep my hands warm.


Whats the Essence? (im NOT asking for Fixer-Love here)
If you downgrade peoples ability to overequip, you instantly kill ALL Classes that cant feed of Muscle or Medic power..
In a couple of weeks we wont see anything other but the generic "4 warriors and 2 clerics" Teams - which honestly are the reason why I stopped playing "that other MMORPG"

Balance Equipment, balance Monsters.
A well oiled and trained four player, three Pet team should be able to tackle a bunch of Oranges.

[elethian]

Hmmm , and what will be done to mobs?

They keep their strenght?

If you disable , or even partially give effect etc , this will affect PvM very much.

One reason i overequip is so i can solo greens and Yellows.

But i cant even handle a green at moment with a QL 147 weapn as lvl 97. I think this is kind , weird , and i know alot of people can solo now, but i am trader , and seems only way to get exp is teaming now.

Then equipment, at my lvl i need non shop items , which go for insane prices (2 to 10mil a piece) I get 30-40 k a mission , 2 hours to do the mission . Cant blitz like some still can , so how am i gonna pay for equipment?

Bottomline , if you do something against over equiping, then downgrade the mobs , or give us other ways to gain the same amount of exp in same time without fighting and having to run around the world to find trade skill items.

[_____________Lamonia]

Greetings


I have been trying to play A-O strate and fair from the first day - I stopped doing this when I got taken out of a mission dungeon by Kegern an Camilynn all I wanted was help to split a pair of RIDERS that had gotten stuck together it all ended up in an area not known where they thretened to report me with a possible ban for abuse.

Since that day I realized that the only help one can get to continue on RK is the one you can get by your friends - and that is being "pimped" as you like to call it - and you will need that a lot - nano buffs and implants and maybe a very high lv friend that finds items you wouldn't find in a shop.

And frankly Guate its not a gamer problem its a developer problem - you have simply turned the game into something that only fits those who can get help to be superpowered by someone who can do it - for god sake DOCS and others are selling their wonderous ablilities - if you haven't noticed place yourself by the Old Athen whompa or any crowded area you will find that this is what people do and that is what they must do becuase the game is now tuned only for those who do.
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If you will do any of that stuff that makes us lvl uniqeu then In my opinion you have to fix:

More items that fits each profession and breed and lvl in those lousy shops where I never find anything that fits myself at the time I want it.

More items in those lousy boxes you find all over a mission that only containes vacuum or low lv stuff.

Tune the MOBS in mission so it fit those who would like to play a fair game and would like to be able to do a middle mission on green MOBS - and not being spanked by grey.

Turn up the cash income for hunt - this is ridiculasly low.

Make tokens assesable for more than mission - I think your intention here was to attract solo gamers with those - they have become too important and too hard to get - make them come as rewards for hunting.

Yor mission are simply boring and they get more boring the higher up in lv you get - make them FUN don't make them big.

Your mission have areas that dont work - most of these are filled with water - take all "water corners" away you simply cant handle that ghrapical problem - either do we get stuck or the MOBS.
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I'm getting sick and tired of all that is being done or should be done for or against PVPERS or EXPLOITERS - start making some stuff for the casual gamers for once. If you made a bit more game flow and a better balance between cash flow, this game might suffer less form what you are affraid of - I think most people don't care about exploiting - but toady we cannot work in any other way to survive on RK.

Its really all up to you and its all your problem - its not a gamers issue - its all in your hands - if you can't show some action don't think that we shall do it - if you find that there is one guild that stand for 60% of all exploits and can't handle such a problem I say you have major lack of determination.


/salute
Lamonia

[_______wrigleyandrew]

The vast amjority of people dislike explioters.. (I hope)

Any one found expliting should be suspended / banned...

BUT

Make it a mission to kill them - they recieve notice that the next time they are killed in PvP combat there acount will be suspended or banned...

Some poeple will seek the fame and notirioty of this sure - but we need bad guys in the game - why not bad guys who are player characters....

Then advertise a (large) bounty for the kill (capture) of this player... instant mission creation !

Give the players the abilty / information to police their own game (to some extent) - with help from FunCom..

Make the world Live and breath like no other MMRPG

(oh and fix the econemy guys....)

[_____________Mescale]

Ok heres My opinions, firstly I think the whole balancing thing is a good thing, I used to Admin a Cyberpunk MOO, and Players always used to ***** when we balanced the game.

On the other hand I am guilty, I needed a 36 elec eng so I could have a floating light, so a friend buffed me up, I expected when it ran out that it would be removed but it wasn't and so you'll have to pry it from my cold clammy hands!

I have to say I expected 2, the problem is if your inventory is full? The item is dropped or destroyed? Heh I can hear the whines of protest even now.

The Number 4 is an interesting idea if its at all possible. But the question is how would you disable my light? make it not work for some of the time, the way each item would be disabled would have to be worked out, if you don't then you may as well just allow items which aren't Overequip proof be equipable by everyone.

How about having a limit on items to do with your level rather than on skills, Initially it sounds like it might ruin the system but when you think about it, the things that people might complain about..
Implants, these would be more of a way to improve areas which you don't have ip to improve. After all, I still need a 64 in Multi Ranged to dual wield these level 5 biomags. the difference is that some implants won't be as useful, e.g. to boost yourself up to get better guns if you've already got the best for your level.
Buff's, Is it worth buffing youself up? well yes because skills levels still affect how well you do things.

However this is removing the nice skill based system in favour of a level + skill based system which isn't as nice.

So in order to stop Over equiping, I would say to disable the item or partially disable it if it can't be removed into their inventory, if not just remove the offending item into the inventory.
Without this the skills based system is worthless because it can just be bypassed.

But really what your looking at is a choice between Community or Profit. Make the game how it should be already or keep the overequipers's exploiters, etc. and their money. (That not to say they'll go away they might just whine alot)

Ok thats enough ranting already.

Mescale.

[______________Tedric]

My opinion on "overequipping" is simple: equipment requirements should be met at all times, not only when equipping. I'm fine with either disabling items totally or degrading them, but the current system of checking requirements only at equip is a game-killer.

"But I spent enormous amounts of time and money to get someone to boost me so I can wear my uberarmor, and I'll cancel if you nerf me!". Boo hoo. Don't slam the door on your way out.

This stupid loophole in the game mechanics makes some twinks *much* more powerful than they should be -> MOBs get upgraded -> twinks twink even more. Instant vicious circle, ending where we are now: players who don't exploit this loophole have a hard time against green MOBs. That's the problem, and the only reasonable solution is to even the playing field. This does *not* mean "make all professions the same", this means "make the rule mechanics enforce some limits". That's what game rules are for. Nano users have a hard limit (nano skill less than required? Cannot use nano). I think this works fine, and most nano users seem to agree. Armor, weapons, and other stuff should also have some limit - if does not have to be "hard", but it needs to exist.

Funcom: you are letting the screaming of come vocal twinks affect your decisions a bit too much. The same goes for exploiters: ban them, fast.

...and since there is obviously indecision on this issue, may I suggest an official poll about the subject?

[Ray]

Let nano runners be able to run nanos even though they don't meet requirements. Knowing the program is enough.

snip

Debuffing is of no value. (Even monsters will be happy about this)

And your point is? Weapon users are totally uneffected by debuffs of their weapon skills right now, so whats the big deal? Or are debuffs only meant to hit caster classes?

I dont think overequiping is bad as long as everyone can do it. Casters cant.

Ever wondered why people are overequiping that much? A few powergamers started (which is not a bad thing), you (Funcom) reacted to that, since those people were lvling too fast I'd say, by making mobs harder, and i mean way harder, to kill. The effect of this is that now most people overequip to compete and to be able to play "normal" (killing yellow mobs). Without some sort of overequiping this isnt possible for some classes (crats, pistol using adventurers anyone? dont even get me started about NTs and nano pool).

Since you want your game balanced i think you should start off with balancing the classes, then adress overequiping. Give every class the ability to overequip at a similar rate, then decide the drawbacks once their skills dont meet the requirements. Personally I'd be fine with the fact that when I'm buffed i can upload nanos 50 ql above me, but when the buffs wear off i get some sort of dmg penalty. But the same has to go for weapon users.

I think you actually let out an option, how bout lvl requirements on weapons and armor. If you dont want a lvl 50 to have ql 100 armor, make the ql 100 armor lvl 75+ only. This is just an example and those numbers are pretty much random, thats a point Funcom has to think about. But it would solve a lot of things without rendering anyone useless. Now if you say what happens if you already have a gun too high (i.e. exceeding that lvl cap). Well it just goes to the bank, since you were able to overequip that much i think you got the cash to get another gun anyway.

But I'll let others do the thinking about the facts/problems, my point is another one.

Due to the people overequiping, a lot of changes have been made to certain classes, not to mention the mob changes. If you solve the overequiping "problem" you have to revert nearly every nerf you did in the AO history. That includes burst/fa, aimed shot and so on (and I'm not an Agent nor Soldier). Along with this the mobs have to get their hps reduced to 50-60% of what they have now. Otherwise this game becomes unplayable in every way. You wont be able to kill greys with your weapon (in case there is a penalty due to the player not having the stats to use it). Also, i dont know if the 13.0 PvP changes are a good idea once overequiping changes.

So generally be careful how you solve this issue, too many things go along with it. I like the post about the IP wipe (theres a good suggestion on the Game Mechanics board), since it would also slap a lot of exploiters right into their face. A word on exploiters, warn em, ban em, period. No mercy, if someone is suspected to be exploited and you have some sort of evidence (other than rumors). Its up tp the exploiter to proof he's innocent (at least if Funcom has proof of him exploiting).

To sum it up, the main problem is changing game mechanics 5 months after release is generally a good way to piss off customers. When you implement such big changes, theres has to be an IP wipe of some sort just to get things settled again. Otherwise its pretty much

people stop playing -> Funcom goes out of business -> Rubi-Ka becomes but a distant memory

just my 0.02 creds

Dark

P.S.: it would be helpful to make some sort of poll, maybe when somone logs on a window pops up where we can vote, would make such things a bit easier for you and us all.

[______________Tedric]

Originally posted by Mescale
But really what your looking at is a choice between Community or Profit. Make the game how it should be already or keep the Nerfer's exploiters, etc. and their money. (That not to say they'll go away they might just whine alot)
Mescale.

Well, on the other hand you also have a lot of roleplayers and anti-twink people leaving right now because they are sick of the current over-equipping-is-the-way-to-go and exploit-all-you-want mentality in AO. I for one would love to see changes to the rule to stop all over-equipping (as defined by "equipping stuff that has requirements that you cannot *continually* meet with your own stats/buffs"), and would not miss the people who gave up the game as a result. Good riddance.

[Shredder]

Here's how I would fix exploiting, duping, etc:

Offense 1: Roll back the exploiting character to the last patch. You guys keep logs on everything I'm sure. (I sure as hell would.) They would lose any gear, XP and anything else they acquired since the last patch, if they don't report it immediately. I think Everquest has logs of every item in the game, and if something is created out of nowhere, it's flagged. Pretty much what you want to do is screw them to the point where they would never consider doing it again. Maybe remove their PVP title and replace it with "Exploiter." You need to make examples out of people, and rule with an iron fist on this issue. People should be scared to do it. Ban IPs, credit cards, your policy should be ZERO TOLERANCE.

But what if someone finds an exploit on accident? Ok, maybe one warning should be in effect. Or if they report it, and give you exact details on how they did it, they should be forgiven. Anything that happens out of the ordinary should be flagged immediately, they player should be yanked away by a GM and questioned gestapo style.

As far as overequipping goes, I really don't know how this can be fixed. If you make it so people have to meet the requirements or the gear becomes useless, the traders main nano line would be good for nothing. In a skill based system like this, it's pretty hard to regulate. In Diablo, there are no buffs, you get all your extra attributes from items, so that system doesn't really apply here. In EverQuest, there are no skill/level requirements on items, and the overequipping and twinking is totally out of hand. Maybe a hard level cap should come into play here. For example:

At level 20, the max 1 hand slashing skill of an enforcer can be, say, 100. The skill is maxed for his current level (IP wise) at say, 50. Then he gets some implants which raise it to 75. Now say he gets someone to wrangle him +30. The skill would cap at 100, so he wouldn't get 105. All the buffing in the world would not put him past 100. It would put him AT 100, but not PAST it. Maybe make the cap 25% of the maxed base skill for the level? 10%? I'm not sure exactly, but that would make it balanced by being impossible to buff to holy hell to put on a QL100 item at level 30.

I know this can be done, and probably easily. You guys can cap nano range at 40m no matter how many range buffs you have on, so capping a skill at a certain level should no be too hard. Granted, you would have to make different caps for different classes (Enforcers 1 hand slash should max at 100 at level 20, while a nanotechs one hand slash should max at 75 for the same level.) Now note that these numbers are not exact, as I have no idea what an enforcers 1 hand slash should be at level 20, but you get my point.

Right now some people are thinking, "Well what about the people who already have weapons equipped 100QL over their level?" Easy. Take off ALL weapons, and put em in the bank. Armor does NOT qualify for ANY of this, because it's pretty damn impossible to equip armor way over your level anyways. And if you took peoples armor off, well, you'd have a riot. You will probably have one either way, but what can you do.

Oh, and one more thing before I go. If you want people not to exploit, make sure the stuff in the game works as intended. Namely, portable surgery clinics. The way it's set up now, everyone in the game has to raise, if not max, their treatment skill, even if it's dark blue, to keep up with the implants they need to survive.

Ok, that's all for my ideas. Read them, improve upon them, tear them apart. They are just ideas.

[____________Kohistan]

Originally posted by Luthcian
....Over-equipping is a whole different matter.
My lvl 67 Atrox Fixer is using a complete set of QL 90 Elite Armor.
Occasionally I slap on a QL 73 Light-Tank, that I can buff myself into using.
Obviously I needed help with the higher QL Elite - but here is the punch line:

Im a Fixer. And I die. Often. Even with a Doc.
Im talking 1600 / 2000 HP and 1500 / 1800 / 2100 AC here.
(the higher values obviously being with Tank armor and Doctor / Engineer Buffs on)
My steady Team features an Engi, Meta, a Medic and myself.
We are taking on Oranges, and since 2500xp per kill is VERY slow at our level range (62 - 75) we take them on in crowds...
Most of our Targets are Social, low orange to light red MOB's.

Most of the time we are doing well we have been playing as a Team for some time now, and crowd control is our daily business - but according to my fellow Team members they give much credit to my QL 103 Mausser and my 'over-equipped' high AC for that...

Well - the point is... I have been wanting to change away from my Mausser for some time now - I spent a grand total of 234000 IP on various weapon skills, just so one day I will be able to Dual-wield OT Vipers.
In the Meantime i have been able to equip Suppressors and Vipers in the QL 70-86 Range... and you wanna know what? The dont cut it.
My Mausser can crit for 540, burst for as high as 790 and regular shots range anywhere from 12 to 270 damage.
Bursting for 790, followed by a crit of around 540 on the first attack is something that would make me put on my dirtiest grin...
IF it would do more than put a dent on my Pulls makeup.
I dont know just how much HP these MOBs have at our level - but not scrathing it for more than 1/8th of its total health when im doing close to 1300 Damage just makes me wanna stand in the corner.

new scenario:
lets assume you put in a hard cap on equipment - i.e. I wont be able to equip anything I would need buffs to get into.
My Armor would top out at around QL ~70. meaning i would not even be able to equip elite yet. so top AC would be around 1300 with Light-Tank on. I would be holding a QL ~70 Mausser as well... and that mainly to keep my hands warm.


Whats the Essence? (im NOT asking for Fixer-Love here)
If you downgrade peoples ability to overequip, you instantly kill ALL Classes that cant feed of Muscle or Medic power..
In a couple of weeks we wont see anything other but the generic "4 warriors and 2 clerics" Teams - which honestly are the reason why I stopped playing "that other MMORPG"

Balance Equipment, balance Monsters.
A well oiled and trained four player, three Pet team should be able to tackle a bunch of Oranges.

Exactly - As a fixer I know everything about those nasty QL Maussers we HAVE to wield just to survive. Still with a Mausser somewhat 40-50 ql's over my own level I can have a hard time solo Green/Yellow mobs.
The essense must be that As long this game is about ur income (the sole way to survive is money in AO I think ) and the only way u can get a decent cash flow is by Hack 'n' slash then u should leave over-equipment as it is.
Concentrate on turning this game into RP instead of wondering how to nerf. If u would put an effort into turning it slowly to something more RP'ing - So that Combat skills would be less high priority U would see the Rubi-ka citizens follow that path instead. /nuff said


Kohistan
Fixer