"Exploits, Nerfs, Banning and Overequipping" by Gaute Godager

[SS_]

Where is this game going? Nowhere, fast. I just spent alot of time leveling and upgrading my character, especially with a new rifle. I did this the right way, buffs that stack. Thats what they where made for. Much like people said, if you don't have the friends to buff you or the creds to buy i.e treatment kits to keep you alive, tough, you'll have to get there like everyone else did. Someday you'll find a way to equip that thing you always wanted or maybe buy that excellent nanoprog. Most of you guys whine whine and whine, shut up for christ's sake, you're sickening. Or maybe Funcom should give everyone some ql 5 weapons and armor when they enroll so that people have some good stuff so that the newbiezone doesn't get to stiff. Hey what about removing skills and creds then everyone can equip or buy whatever they like and the whiners would shut up. You guys that say "de-equip everything" well, you guys are losers. Grow up and enjoy the game, someone's always the better one no matter how good you are. If you make me lose my hard earned equipment then I hope you burn in hell you jealous KIDS. Whatever intention is there in the buffs anyways then? Give you 1-2dmg output or you soak 1-2 pts of dmg? No they are there to get your character better so that you can get into better stuff. Imagine yourself being equipped with what your level permits, people all already ranting about how they can't do a 50% mission, what do you thin would happen? Geez, grow up or go play 'Pikachu does Paris' or something like that if you can't cope with people being better than you. Maybe remove all the levels aswell Funcom then noone would whine about higher/lower characters killing them PvP. Another sad fact is that people think that they shouldn't die in PvP, always some whining about "X killed me by method Y", guess what? People die in PvP if you don't want to die then don't PvP. Well thats it for me and I hope more of the straight players stand up and let this whiners know that this doesn't appear to be their game. I don't consider myself an exploiter since everything I've done is legit. Is it an exploit to buff up with Snipers Bliss and Rifle Expertise to get +70 in Rifle skill? No it isn't. But using the old treatment terminal bug to get an almost infinate amount of treatment is (that's the only 'exploit' i knew of and that one is gone). Well take care all of you that enjoy this game and I hope whiner don't get to this game as it has alot of potential.

[________Shadowrunner]

The only whiner here is you. Never before have I seen souch
display of Egocentrig behavour. Me ME Me. The only one here behaving like a child is you. Give some constructive advide like most other do ,maybe even a reason why it could be a good idea
to do so?

[SS_]

Me, egocentric? No not really, the egocentric people are the ones calling out for a IP reset and things like that. Imagine people lvl 110+ getting to have to 'start over' trying to re-equip their things because somebody got whacked by a 10 levels lower character that was 'over-equipped'. I like to point out that there are ways to equip stuff in a legit way and I'm in for that, but exploiting bugs to get advantages one wasn't supposed to get is plain wrong. But de-equipping or IP reset and everyhting in bank, hell no...

[_________________Tak]

I apologise, I haven't read all the articles in the thread yet. I'll have to read the rest in the evening when I'm not at work anymore. Argh I can't I'll be AOnline by then...

Question: Why not make the equipment ql's invisible, and show only requirements and e.g. damage, modifiers etc.? (just a joke )

To me its basically ok if a person carries equipment that is of a higher level than his own... after all he planned his character, looked for the right implants etc. and now fulfills the requirements and should be entitled to use the respective item. Its also somewhat rewarding if you plan your char well, and then can feel the effects manifest in higher protection, damage, and so on.

What I miss a little bit, is the actual effect my skill level has on the equipment. E.g. if you buff yourself for 40 points to wear a weapon, and the buff runs out, you should actually really feel the effect of this, e.g. you do considerably less damage with a gun, and no more crits... or none anymore since the requirements are *much* too high for you.

Like this it would take a little more than just comparing / buffing skill levels to choose the weapon thats really fitting for you. If you see yourself doing only real small amounts damage each shot with that skyhigh-QL-rifle, after your buffs have run out... or you suddenly take much more damage 'cause you forgot how to fit the armor right perhaps you'd reconsider using equipment with the same level as you have. Or even use items with lower req's, and get rewarded with more crits, etc. because you actually *master* your equipment! Don't forget, gearheads tend to drown in steep water, after all


Concerning those other exploits, that is, bugs that are being abused by those that have enough time to figure that stuff out *lol* NUKE THEM!!! How 'bout white diapers (nodrop, har har)



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btw: sharp objects please...
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[Doctorkain]

Originally posted by SuperSolid
Me, egocentric?

Yes. You.

Originally posted by SuperSolid
I hope you burn in hell you jealous KIDS?

Heh, I was waiting for that. I think I'll quote my own post now.

Originally posted by Lanasia
I hear all the overequipers whining incessantly here that this is the way the game was meant to be played. That they spent 14.9 trillion on implants, buffs, and stuff, so they shouldn't be nerfed. Any time anyone else suggest that this is imbalanced, they scream 'jealousy', and hurl insults like mad, trying to keep their personal own character from being downgraded at all costs.

Wow man, you were even so kind to use my own words. Now that you set yourself up, the shot:

Originally posted by Lanasia
I have a level 60 MA with level 127-130 implants (intended to be 125, ended up there due to cluster quality levels). Cost 2.6 million for the implant set.

(abbreviated)

The implants I used to get those implants in cost another 200-300k. I've got various other equipment you can only buy from other players or find in missions, I've got a Yalmaha, blah ble blah blah.

(abbreviated)

Nerf it all. Kill it all. Destroy all that overequipping I did. Hours of work, down the drain, and I am asking you, FunCom, to do it. All you overequiping whiners - come on, tell me I'm jealous of your mad l33t overequip. Tell me I didn't take 2 days cluster hunting just for the imps, let alone my Zenith Taichis. Tell me I'm trying to nerf you and only, and how I don't deserve to be as uber as you because I didn't take the time. Tell me that my opinion isn't credible, even though I did it too..

Now I'm using a ql93 wall blade, with my level 125ish set of imps at level 60. Currently in the process of hunting down my full flowers tech armor set of precisely level 96, the max I can equip after buffs.

Level 127 imps.
Level 96 armor.
Level 84 Primus coat, with a 107 I might put on if I can get my Agil high enough and I don't sell it.
Level 93 wall blade.
Computer deck belt and NCU's which I lack about -95 points- of comp lit to actually equip - since I just implanted, buffed, put it on, then replaced the implants. Gives me a total of 153 NCU. Blue complit means little to me.
My ql33 Yalmaha.
My 120 token board with 156 tokens on it.

Now, SuperSolid... please, I beg of you - tell me how I am a jealous kid? Am I really? Am I jealous of your mad l33t overequip? Am I mad because I didn't do the work myself? Am I crying and whining nerf because I'm not as uber as your godlike super-duper uberized character?

Or, with all this work at risk of possibly being flushed in a quick patch, am I asking for some changes that would finally add some sensible balance to the game?

You're not arguing any of the points about dispartiy of power capable in any given level, you're not considering how the game's high levels might work better with monsters intended for chars using similar level equipment, and you're not even thinking about how PvP wouldn't need rules like 50% damage (giving healers an added bonus for no real reason?) because damage ramps due to equipment levels and monster levels (the monster levels REQUIRING the excessive damage output that now-required overequiping does). You're not thinking about what your char is going to do when he hits level 130 and is already using a ql200 weapon - and it only staying even with those yellow mobs.

Nah, none of the above. I'm just not credible. It's the first thing you said.

... it's stupid I had to write any of that just to establish lack of jealousy. To those who read and put forth thoughts instead of slinging ****, thanks.

[SS_]

Now, SuperSolid... please, I beg of you - tell me how I am a jealous kid? Am I really? Am I jealous of your mad l33t overequip? Am I mad because I didn't do the work myself? Am I crying and whining nerf because I'm not as uber as your godlike super-duper uberized character?


Well maybe you're not jealous and if you are offended I apologize, this was meant for those that whine (and go ahead and call me a whiner for complaining once in my very first post), I have only one thing overequipped at the moment (but in a level or 2 I'm going to be able to take it off and put if on at will) so I'm not this über-L337 character if that's what you think. I just thought I'd let go of some thoughts since all I read about these games nowadays is 'this too good and this is too bad change this change that', and that sucks. Thought I'd stick up for some that like the game as it is. I would've thought that you figured I didn't read all the post but what the hell, go on and share your thoughts...

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Lanasia

Now I'm using a ql93 wall blade, with my level 125ish set of imps at level 60. Currently in the process of hunting down my full flowers tech armor set of precisely level 96, the max I can equip after buffs.

Level 127 imps.
Level 96 armor.
Level 84 Primus coat, with a 107 I might put on if I can get my Agil high enough and I don't sell it.
Level 93 wall blade.
Computer deck belt and NCU's which I lack about -95 points- of comp lit to actually equip - since I just implanted, buffed, put it on, then replaced the implants. Gives me a total of 153 NCU. Blue complit means little to me.
My ql33 Yalmaha.
My 120 token board with 156 tokens on it.

Or, with all this work at risk of possibly being flushed in a quick patch, am I asking for some changes that would finally add some sensible balance to the game?

You're not arguing any of the points about dispartiy of power capable in any given level, you're not considering how the game's high levels might work better with monsters intended for chars using similar level equipment, and you're not even thinking about how PvP wouldn't need rules like 50% damage (giving healers an added bonus for no real reason?) because damage ramps due to equipment levels and monster levels (the monster levels REQUIRING the excessive damage output that now-required overequiping does). You're not thinking about what your char is going to do when he hits level 130 and is already using a ql200 weapon - and it only staying even with those yellow mobs.

Nah, none of the above. I'm just not credible. It's the first thing you said.

... it's stupid I had to write any of that just to establish lack of jealousy. To those who read and put forth thoughts instead of slinging ****, thanks.

I have to agree with you Lan... I am equipped pretty much in the same way at LVL58

Ql77 Tertius Coat
QL70 Armor
QL117 Fletchette
QL130 implants (which I worked hard to get and my treatment is high enough that the +80 doc buff puts me high enough)
QL45 Yalmaha
Only 69 tokens


And I've been flamed earlier for my posts where I thougt maybe limitting who you can and can't buff would be a good solution. For instance, if you can't team and get xp or PvP with someone or they are not higher than you, you can't buff them.

And by the way... here's a sign of the problem... Once I actually equip my new implants I will have the option of upgrading to a QL182 Stigma Rifle. That should be around Lvl 60. Currently I do it to keep up with the mobs and because I want to keep up with other PvPers in events. I don't PvP on a regular basis, but it's no fun to be griefed. As I said before... I'm willing to have my gear fall to the bank... as long as it happens to everyone and new rules are implemented to make a level playing field. Until then I will use what the game allows. I have not exploited, I have not cheated, or duped. I make money by running tons of boring missions, so I can afford something a little better. So that maybe I spend less time during an event sitting at a reclaim terminal.

I am not super duper... I am not invincible... and frankly I still die a couple of times a day (in missions since I don't PvP).

I do want to point out that most of my missions are loaded with rooms with two mobs and I can't keep up with a pair of them... Single player missions shouldn't recquire zoning 100 times in and out or 10 trips to the reclaim terminal and hardly an xp gained because you keep losing it.

If mobs are adjusted, I wouldn't try so hard to not die. I wouldn't mind putting less time into having the best equipment I can figure out how to use.

[____________Tamanaka]

Maybe someone could help clear up some questions I have based on responses I have seen to this post.

I have seen several post saying people would lose some IP based on rings in an IP wipe, but is that really true? Aren't the rings (and board bonuses for that matter) an addition to XP, not IP? Don't you get a set amount of IP per level?

Casting buffs on grays - don't the mobs work from basically the same system players do? Wouldn't this mean that nano casters would also no longer have a way off defending themselves from gray mobs?

Someone from Funcom, please, does QL match Level? I don't think so. My level 30 Fixer can equip QL 41 armor and QL 43 Mausser with no buffs (or at least close to on the Mausser, I don't use much, haven't bothered with more than QL 15 Implants and have max'd my attribs and attacks - yes, it means I have very low nano skills).

Why do so many people seem to think your character is poor unless you can solo 4~5 oranges or a red? Isn't yellow basically your level and should be a 50/50 chance? I realize that different types of mobs will be harder or easier at yellow than others and this also makes sense. But why does it make any sense that you should ever be able to solo a red beyond low level? Reds are what, 4 to 5 levels above you to 200? And 4~5 oranges at a time? They are already higher level than you, but you want to take on 4~5 of them? And you think it isn't fair if you can't do it? Has this standard been set by exploiters?

Having read through all the post, I still think the only thing Funcom should currently do is fix the over-equipping created by exploits (or their own short-sightedness, as in the case of the Fixer Comp. Lit. buff). Just fix this and see if the system balances out somewhat. I would hope that a lot of time was spent initially to figure out the system - we have yet to see if it would work correctly due to the early bugs that people exploited. Do an IP wipe and full de-equip with the current rules and see what happens. Just annouce it ahead of time, at least two weeks - people will need time to prepare. And reduce mob health at the same time - it should never have been boosted for the uber twinks anyway, most people don't have that kind of character.

The only additional fix I think might be made at some point would be too make the attrib req on implants based on a non-buffed stat and no Treatment buff should be higher than the Clinic's (is there one? including any stackable combinations?). That would greatly decrease the QL of implants that could be installed.

[__________NicholaSix]

I have 2 characters, a very well equiped soldier, level 113, all 165+ weapons and armor (most alot higher than that) and will soon have ql160ish implants in. And a level 29 MA in full ql60 armor, 60 token board, ql70 implants, that can run into a room of 4 oranges and kill them all. I had a 4 slot belt on her at LEVEL 10. Note also that my level 113 soldier often times has to run from a single green when he solos.

It's a simple proposition. If you can buff yourself into it and keep the buffs up you can use it. Do it for everything, all weapons all armor, you can scale the usefulness of the items to the current skills ratio:req or just de-equip it. You could do the same thing for belts and NCU and if a belt's effective quality level reduced it to a lower slot belt de-equip 1 or however many NCU it would take to make it the right ql. Also reduce NCUs ql to the current max QL of the users comp-lit.

For traders increase the length of their comp lit buffs and wrangle line. Then the wrangle would be useful in team situations still.

As to de-buffs, Lan's idea was great, make them like a nano-delta on tank armor, and remove the skill reduction. You lose a percentage of effectivness with your weapon, be it nano, gun, melee weapon or MA special, rather than losing the ability to use it. The range could start at 10% off for low level ransacks and go to 50% or more.

FINALLY and most importantly PLEASE FIX PVM at ALL LEVELS balance it to the new system. Before you release a patch that creates these sweeping changes TEST IT AT ALL LEVELS and TEST it for a LONG TIME. Make some 100, 120, 150, 180 and 200 characters on test and make sure PVM is balanced for them. Test each class at each level tir, and make it work. level 120 combat classes should not have to RUN from greys if they have good gear.

[______________MKaath]

Looking at all the posts it seems to be me that most needs could be met with only two of the suggestions:

A) Allow implant stat reqs to be met only by base stats, no buffs, no implants, etc. I think in a previous post I suggested this, but also removing the treatment skill, changed my mind on that part.

B) Allow you to equip anything, regardless of stat reqs, but progressively make it less effective the further below the stat reqs you are. And make sure that ANY item over your stats is less effective than the QL where you would exactly match the stats. e.g. a Lvl 5 who could wear QL10 armor based on their stats, when wearing QL200 armor the armor wouldn't be any more effective than that QL10 armor, preferably a bit less, whereas QL11 would be about the same as QL10, and QL20 would be much worse. The closer to your stats your weapon is, the better it works, with the absolute best for you being the one of appropriate QL. This should probably be based in %'s rather than absolutes ranges.


Item A restricts overequipping to a reasonable level, no way to "step-up" to silly high skill values.

Item B would also mean that buffs won't help you unless you've got them running, but at the same doesn't require you to swap weapons if your usual trader partner isn't playing, you just won't shoot it as well. Maybe people will actually head out places and buff people.


NCU belts I dunno about. I would probably leave the belt alone, but have the actual NCU available work as above.

MKaath

[______________MKaath]

BTW, am I the only one who can do _anything_ with reasonable equipment?

I'm currently:

Lvl62 Nano Fixer(not the most powerful pairing in the world)

QL90-93 implants(those did take a bit of messing around to get in when I put them in 10 levels ago, now I just need a treatment buff).

QL95 Mausser(only used self buffs and implants to use, had it for a while)

No Yalmaha, a Kodiak I don't use, all blue nano skills so I'm using QL40-50 nanoformulas...

I don't PvP much, but am about 50/50 in fights I've gotten into, maybe a bit less(pre PvP patch, haven't fought since).

Take greens quite easily, sometimes three at a time, can get low oranges(one or two above me on the PoD) with a bit of luck.


Now is it just me, or does all this seem pretty appropriate?

MKaath

[Hibernation]

Im fine with over-equipping the way it is and mobs are balanced to deal with that.

Problem is that it isnt done at the same conditions for everyone

example:

Solitus soldier A have a strength of 100 and stamina of 100 he wants to use good armour and get surgery implants for his head, eye and hand, then he gets all stamina and strength implants of good ql since he can do that, then treatment buff and full medsuit, then he gets IC and a good essence and there you go very uber armour is on, out with the surgery implants and with some regular implants, soldier A now has really good armour.

Nano-mage Nt have an int and psy of 100 he also wants good armour so he gets the same set of implants for surgery and puts them in and then full med suit and then treatment buff, now he realizez the int and psy implants almost each time goes in the same spot as the surgery implants and says "damn it, this wont work", he then tries to find buffs for int and psy and encounter the sad part there isnt any buffs for that he have to stick with his somewhat mediocre armour.

Is that fair!

Next problem is guns those implants are the same way as above casters nanoimplants goes in the same spots as surgery implants while soldiers weapon implants doesnt, with some exceptions.

Whites lvl 99 crat

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Tamanaka

Casting buffs on grays - don't the mobs work from basically the same system players do? Wouldn't this mean that nano casters would also no longer have a way off defending themselves from gray mobs?

I don't think this is the case since damage is calculated differently between mobs and in PvP..... but I'm not sure. If they were able to put a modifier of 40% on PvP damage I am sure they can put a req on PvP buffing....

I am now Lvl 60 and just got into Level 130 implants... this was not easy mind you and I was very satisfied that I was able to figure out how to do it. There is something very rewarding about making a move that enhances your gear. I spent a lot of time and effort putting together these implants at the costs of implants Funcom could majorly Gimp my character by making it so I can't use them.... What am I going to do as an agent at Level 60 with no implants and no money.... Of course I've got friends in game that would help me out, but I am seeing the other side now... I'm not so sure anything should be done about implants... many because of their cost to build and to equip... my set easily ran me 6-10 million, which I had to do countless missions and hours of selling items on shopping channel to get. Anyone who was Level 60 and spent the time could wear equal implants, so those who are too lazy to put time into finding clusters, a couple of people who will buff for cash, and to figure out how to get all their clusters on the same Body Attribute Req (mine being Agility) shouldn't be rewarded for their laziness.

I have no problem limitting buffing.... or doing an ip wipe... but if I lost these implants at this point my character would be somewhat useless... I'd take a loss of 100 in my attack rating, probably more. My AC's would plummet. Or maybe I should plan for future nerfs by saving every item I have ever owned since Level 1. That is just not feasible.

Unequip my items... those are easy to replace if I have to get a lower QL item... unequip my armor.... wipe my ip.... but don't mess with my implants... unless you want to spend hours building a QL70 or 90 version, so that I can leave Omni-1 without being killed by grays.

I have spent a lot of time to get my character where I am happy with him... and I am now very happy with him. But mainly because of my implants, which were something I did through hard effort. I think there are many out there that feel the same way as me. I'd say the people that put the most time into building implants play the game an awful lot... I know I am one of those. I don't think these are the players Funcom wants to go after.

AND NO I DO NOT PvP unless it is an in game event. We have an amnesty!!! Haven't you heard???? I didn't like the state of PvP and I am having more fun developing my character through levelling, Nano's, and Implants.

[______________Hodaka]

I agree. I believe they do different checks. If I try to heal and accidentally have a mob targetted, it always tells me that it has to be a friendly target. All they'd have to do is check, and if it's unfriendly, any attack nano could still be used as usual, gray or not....

Originally posted by eleetist


I don't think this is the case since damage is calculated differently between mobs and in PvP..... but I'm not sure. If they were able to put a modifier of 40% on PvP damage I am sure they can put a req on PvP buffing....

I am now Lvl 60 and just got into Level 130 implants... this was not easy mind you and I was very satisfied that I was able to figure out how to do it. There is something very rewarding about making a move that enhances your gear. I spent a lot of time and effort putting together these implants at the costs of implants Funcom could majorly Gimp my character by making it so I can't use them.... What am I going to do as an agent at Level 60 with no implants and no money.... Of course I've got friends in game that would help me out, but I am seeing the other side now... I'm not so sure anything should be done about implants... many because of their cost to build and to equip... my set easily ran me 6-10 million, which I had to do countless missions and hours of selling items on shopping channel to get. Anyone who was Level 60 and spent the time could wear equal implants, so those who are too lazy to put time into finding clusters, a couple of people who will buff for cash, and to figure out how to get all their clusters on the same Body Attribute Req (mine being Agility) shouldn't be rewarded for their laziness.

I have no problem limitting buffing.... or doing an ip wipe... but if I lost these implants at this point my character would be somewhat useless... I'd take a loss of 100 in my attack rating, probably more. My AC's would plummet. Or maybe I should plan for future nerfs by saving every item I have ever owned since Level 1. That is just not feasible.

Unequip my items... those are easy to replace if I have to get a lower QL item... unequip my armor.... wipe my ip.... but don't mess with my implants... unless you want to spend hours building a QL70 or 90 version, so that I can leave Omni-1 without being killed by grays.

I have spent a lot of time to get my character where I am happy with him... and I am now very happy with him. But mainly because of my implants, which were something I did through hard effort. I think there are many out there that feel the same way as me. I'd say the people that put the most time into building implants play the game an awful lot... I know I am one of those. I don't think these are the players Funcom wants to go after.

AND NO I DO NOT PvP unless it is an in game event. We have an amnesty!!! Haven't you heard???? I didn't like the state of PvP and I am having more fun developing my character through levelling, Nano's, and Implants.

[Arinia]

"Example? Treatment not high enough to fit that level 90 imp in? Missing 30 points, even after 20 genera buff, the Omni Med suit, the +80 doc buff, and the +100 treatment clinic buff? Just pop a 60 shining treatment in, and pop that level 90 right in. What? The imp goes in the head slot? (location of the shining treatment) No problem, just right-click it, and the game will do the skill check before swapping. "

Tell me, how is this only marginally different than the treatment clinic stacking bug?

What a load of crap. I was under the impression that you could not use an implant in the same spot to ladder up. Without this, laddering up becomes a process that you actually have to THINK about. Little did I know that it was a cakewalk.

IMHO, this is an exploit and should be fixed immediately. Too bad it's used so widespread, from the tone of this thread.

[_____________Naosuko]

Go Lanasia!

Whites: Well, yeah, but a solitus soldier is supposed to be able to wear good armor - after all, he's got a fighter class. But a nanomage NT... should be worring less about good armor and more about how do I avoid getting aggroed?

The answer, of course, is use that sol soldier over there as a shield. Caster and backup classes, honestly, shouldn't be trying to solo. They don't have the health or armor for it. Don't try to be a soldier or an enforcer or a MA if you're a NT or a trader or a doc.

Don't believe me? I'm a MA, and when I group with people, there's usually a NT, or a doc, or a trader, hiding behind me and taking the occasional potshot at the mob, but usually doing what they do best - casting. The doc keeps me alive, the NT nukes the mob, the trader does... well, whatever it is traders do in combat.

(Before you get mad at me... although having an angry hoarde of traders hunting me down could be kinda fun to watch... my other character's a trader. I don't really know what she'd be like in heated combat, because she spends all her time in Omni-Trade, testing the tradeskills. Traders shouldn't need to be in combat! They should be getting their xp from tradeskills... although that's a topic I've covered elsewhere.)

Tamanaka, MKath: Yeah, that's what I thought. For me, Grey=can't kill me, Red=I can't kill it, Yellow=it's going to be close. I've been able to take light oranges recently, but I did just get a nice new buff, which I'll probably be using for the next five-ten levels, so will become less useful.

'Course, the colors aren't balanced for class. If I had a meatheaded 'trox enforcer with a big mallet, I'd probably be able to take down deep oranges without much sweat... but I know my 'fex trader runs from light greens. So depending on who and what you are, the colors aren't exactly right. But it's at least consistent, at least to as high a level as I've seen.

And, of course, the colors don't take uberequipping into account. Off course, if you've got equpiment designed for someone twice your level, you've got a 'right' to cry and complain if you can't defend yourself against a small army of yellow RoXXor Leets in your sleep, with two hands tied behind your back, using the keyboard with your feet... blindfolded.

And that's why I complain about overequippers, but not very loudly. Personally, I don't care that they're going up against Genocide Pythons and Tac-Nuke Reets rather than the Soft Nanoaddicts I face, but if their whining forces me to join their QL175 ranks at level 50... yeah, I'm going to complain.

Yeah, I have to zone in and out of missions when there're three or four yellows in the first room. But hey, there're three or four people who are as strong as I am ganging up on me. Off COURSE I have to run away! I actually think it's kinda silly that the big rooms are designed like that, but I'm getting distracted again.

~Esselte

[Hibernation]

Aha and there we go again im not angry but this game is all about fighting and i need to do missions as well as anyone else and you tell me i shouldnt, or at least to do easier for less money, xp and loot, why should i be satisfied with that basically you are saying all should play attrox soldier or enf and wear sta/str based armour cause that rocks the most is that the kind of game we want.

Its not the game I want!


and for nukers they are goin to be attacked after a 6 second nuke for 1500 dmg, and then what, shall he just die!

I know ppl that uses ql 200 armour and weapons at lvl 120 while i a mere lvl 99 can only use 135ish nanoarmour, and if i do it will severely reduce my pet-nanos and other nanos since i have to choose and others dont.

[___________ThuleDoom]

I am against over-equipping, but it has been there for so long removing it would affect the game too much.

(Did not read all the post, someone might have written something like this???)

(EDIT: Read some more of the posts, not all, phew...)
I take the old time RPG view: 'If you over-equip you get burden.' Sounds logical doesn't it? If you are not Arnolt Swartzennegger you shouldn't be able to lift weights like him... And you shouldn't be able to wield 2H sword like Conan. Or shoot like Rambo...

SOLUTION(?):
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1. Side effects: (Let FC figure out the algorithm )

Strength based over equip: (armor/weapon)
Effective STR is reduced affecting carry weight, functional skills ...

Agility based over equip: (armor/weapon)
Effective Agility reduced, fumble chance with melee/ranged weapons

Intelligence based over equip:
Fumble chance with nanos up and effective INT down a bit

Comp Lit based over equip: (belt/NCU)
??? This is hard, shorter NCU time?

2. Skill drop
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The effective skill with weapon is calculated with a fair multiplier between char skill and weapon requirement, as in the #4 solution (I think? ...)

NOTES
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But if things are going this way, the same should work under-equipped, Lev200 Soldier should make pretty good damage with QL1 gun too... ??? And you should be able to cast nanos when debuffed too, just at lower skill...

And of course make it up to Traders and Fixers by giving new ways to steal our money...

[____________Scopique]

Ban exploiters. Period. They aren't playing the game for fun. They are interested in ruining it for others.

Over equipping should follow the DAoC model: Everyone can use items, but you have an optimal range that flows from "item is too simple for you", to "item is perfect for you", to "item is beyond you". You can use these items, but the further they are from your skill, the less effective they will be. This allows buffs and debuffs to be effective, and rewards those who raise their skills though hard work.

[_______________Calio]

OK. here's my $.02

The question deals with several inter-related, but ultimately different issues and there is no one answer that covers all the bases. As I see it, there are 3 basic issues:

1) exploits (defined as design flaws to illegitmately get something - like duping).

here I would simply freeze the accounts. No ifs, ands, or buts. Simple as that.

2) Overequiping may seem like an exploit but its not really. The reason i say that is that buffing is structurally integral to the game itself. That people use the ability to stack such buffs and use equipment that is otherwise way over their head, may be unintended by the designers, but short of getting rid of buffs, it's here to stay. As far as using earlier design flaws (like treatment centers) to overequip - what one can call an exploit of sorts, this is probably less of a long term problem that it seems now. By that i mean that eventually levels will catch up to equipment/implants and without the ability to continue the exploits (treatment centers now work normall), the impact of the earlier exploit will become minimal as the individuals involved are forced to do what everyone else is doing all along. In other words, the exploits only yield temporray benefits. I also don't think there's anything to do about overequiping that won't generate a debacle on a par with 12.6 patch. Buffing is part of the game by its very design. rather than trying to find a way to nerf if (a lost cause), balance the other elements of the game to match the buffs (this seems to have been done already).

3) The effect of debuffs: First off, let me say that I play an NT with my main and so don't benefit from buffs to the degree some other professions do and debuffs kill me (there's nothing like being debuffed by a trader type in PvM and chipping a awy at a MOB with 6k health with a nuke that only does 200 damage, cause the 500 damage nuke wont work).

I think all the across-the-board suggestions for handling debuffs (proportional reduction in damage/AC, etc.) are flawed one way or another. The choice boils down to nerfing debuffs, which kills traders and MP's, or nerfing everyone else. neither is a viable choice. The problem remains, though, for how to balance nano users, versus physical combat types, as nano users are rendered helpless why physical combat types remain unaffected at all. here's what i propose on this score.

Make debuffs do proportional reductions to weapon damage/AC for all types. For nano users, create a new "dispell" nano that gets rid of debuffs completely!!! The nano user hit by a debuff is completely helpless for the 2-3 rounds of combat it take to get rid of the debuff and then back to normal thereafter. The overall _average_ effect is the same for all professions. Combat types suffer a long-term proportional reduction in power, nano users suffer a much shorter and greater reduction in power and then get normal power back after casting the dispell.

That's make take on things.