"Exploits, Nerfs, Banning and Overequipping" by Gaute Godager

[_________________Nim]

well i agree with you guys and thnk u should be hard on 3rd party users and exploiters but i think that as far as over equiping i think the people that do this is 1 moslty pvpers 2 they take alot of time to map out requirements to be able to do this 3 using the system that is provided for us 4 using there minds now if people want to play a game where they pik up and go every one same level and just shoot they can play unreal tournament i play this as well .. the fall of most mmrpgs is the complaining and whining of little kids that get mad and dont know how to take losing.. if u know thats a pvp zone and you are a gimp dont go. i lost my first 10 pvp matches but i worked harder to build my char up to standards, everyone knew older class was the warriors as they should be soldiers roked then these little kids who dont understand a skill cap wanteed to snipe self heal use melle when in close burst fa and do everything got mad and cried ... look this is a rpg [role playing game] obviously some dont know if u gonna play know your role if u a doc heal
a trader trade agent snipe ma fists and so forth you can have everything and to fun com stop accomadating them or they will just crymore every time they not pleased like spoled brats this should be a adult community but as far as i can see most are 14yrs old or havent grown up.. i think this game has a great vison and concept but with the constant nerfing and equaliing of classes it will ruin the game and unfortunatley the ones getting hurt is the long timers people since beta that helped u fix the game and work out bugs because these kids want to come in and be equal.. as in real life u come late u in back of line funcom let them stay there they chose to get that game 3 months 6 months 1yr after release give your devoted fan base and longtime players a break i mean we are the ones that have been here and supported u and help u get to where we are today in rubi ka with out us the game would of flopped the first month or 2 ...... just my opionon everyone has one

[__________NicholaSix]

Most of my characters are pretty buffed into their stuff. My 113 soldier uses 160+ armor, and always gets +40 in buffs to equip his new stuff. I wouldn't mind if it was less effective. I can self buff into my guns and have no problem keeping those buffs running. My MA, the same thing. The thing that makes me the most sick about overequiping is we all end up living in our armor or weapons and it's SO BORING to not be able to ever change clothes or take off your helmet without having to worry about finding people to buff you back into it again. Overequiping is very counter productive to role playing.

This will suck for the uber gladiator level 10 twinks, but big deal, they can level into their gear and stop being such mutants.

I think this needs to be extended to ALL equipment tho, BELTS, NCU, weapons, ARMOR, IMPLANTS. Belts in particular, because they are the root of all twinkage. IF you don't have the complit for you belt it should unequip same with NCUs.

Also if you do this please reballance PVM. It's a mess anyway. =/

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by dilinger
well i agree with you guys and thnk u should be hard on 3rd party users and exploiters but i think that as far as over equiping i think the people that do this is 1 moslty pvpers 2 they take alot of time to map out requirements to be able to do this 3 using the system that is provided for us 4 using there minds now if people want to play a game where they pik up and go every one same level and just shoot they can play unreal tournament i play this as well .. the fall of most mmrpgs is the complaining and whining of little kids that get mad and dont know how to take losing.. if u know thats a pvp zone and you are a gimp dont go. i lost my first 10 pvp matches but i worked harder to build my char up to standards, everyone knew older class was the warriors as they should be soldiers roked then these little kids who dont understand a skill cap wanteed to snipe self heal use melle when in close burst fa and do everything got mad and cried ... look this is a rpg [role playing game] obviously some dont know if u gonna play know your role if u a doc heal
a trader trade agent snipe ma fists and so forth you can have everything and to fun com stop accomadating them or they will just crymore every time they not pleased like spoled brats this should be a adult community but as far as i can see most are 14yrs old or havent grown up.. i think this game has a great vison and concept but with the constant nerfing and equaliing of classes it will ruin the game and unfortunatley the ones getting hurt is the long timers people since beta that helped u fix the game and work out bugs because these kids want to come in and be equal.. as in real life u come late u in back of line funcom let them stay there they chose to get that game 3 months 6 months 1yr after release give your devoted fan base and longtime players a break i mean we are the ones that have been here and supported u and help u get to where we are today in rubi ka with out us the game would of flopped the first month or 2 ...... just my opionon everyone has one

AMEN dilinger. A voice of reason on the board. I too have been around since Beta and played through all the changes and several nerfs. It is a lot more fun to be able to have some variance in players by equiping different levels of implants, armor, guns, etc. Ending all overequipping would hurt this.

I'll stick to my guns and say "NO MORE MAJOR CHANGES"... cut down on Overequipping if you must, don't end it or the whole game balancing will have to be reworked again!!!

[_____________quigley]

Hey, I could just be stupid, but it seems to me that, perhaps if you people didn't want people to over-equip, maybe you shouldn't have created a whole class of people (traders) who specialize in helping people do just that. I mean, traders are built to super-buff people WAY beyond their normal means. They have a whole line of really kewl nanos solely dedicated to over-equiping. You (funcom) put them there. Is that cheating? "Here, little Billy, here's the nice new fire engine you wanted. See how shiny and red? But, for the love of God, don't ever ever play with it!" Seems kind of stupid to me to give us something and then tell us not to use it. If you "fix" (as in nerf to hell) this aspect of the game, you're going to see a huge drop in the number of traders and probably MP's around, since you will have made them utterly worthless. I like seeing traders and MP's around, don't screw them over like that.

On Exploiters: They aren't sharing their secrets with me, so I can't do anything really super kewl like drop no-drops or dupe airplanes, and that makes me jealous, so I say get rid of them. If they aren't gonna help out the rest of us too dumb or honest to go find the exploits, I say ban them. Yeah, that's right, you heard me, I'm not whining about the role-playing integrity of the game or the honesty or the morality of item-duping and the like. I'm mad at exploiters because they can do special tricks that I can't, and if I can't do the special tricks then no one should be able to. Ban the ones you catch, disband this "Faction" where they are all coming from (you can't ban them all if they didn't do anything, but you can kill their faction), and basically make it a REALLY BAD THING to exploit the game.

I keep hearing about the "unfairness" of not being able to use nanos after a buff wears off. People are saying that nanos should be like weapons, once it's loaded it can be cast without the buff. I say NO WAY! I play a 27 NT for one of my chars, so its not like I'm talking out of my butt here. The way I figure it, having to run buffs to cast your nanos is what we casters pay in return for doing MAD DAMAGE. If the nanos worked like guns, there's no doubt Funcom would reduce their damage severely to even them out with normal weapons. I don't want that. Like I said, I'm a 27 NT, and I usually pal around with a 45 Trader and a 43 Fixer (except for grouping, can't group with them yet). I've watched them battle MOBs, and we are all doing roughly equivelant damage. A level 27 doing the same damage as a 45 and a 43. I really like that. Sure they can pass me up with burst and crit and all that, but that's beside the point. I like the way nanos work, leave them alone, I don't want to be downgraded just because people don't like running buffs. If you hate the way nanos work, don't be a casting class. There's a trade off between ease of use and damage done, and I feel its about perfect the way it is (tho max range could be increased to sight range, but that's another rant altogether). Weapons are very easy to equip, don't stop working when the buffs wear off, but they do a little less damage per shot. Nanos are a pain to equip, reqs are high, and they're worthless without a good buff, but, oh baby, how I love seeing green mobs drop in three shots. Please leave this balance alone, its one of the few truly balanced things I have found in the game.

Kendek, 27 NT Clan, RK-1

[______________reggie]

-Just one quick point here.

(Sorry for not reading the last page or two but I'm growing tired of people repeating what have been said many times before and writing too excessively... and because of that I'm probably also missing some of the interesting posts).


It has been pointed out many times that even if over-equipping shall remain a key part of the game, like it is today, it should be made so that players don't -have- to over-equip at all to be able to run missions etc.

Ideally I agree with this. One problem however, is that the balance between "lazy players" (sorry folx) and those "severely over-equipping" will be far too large. Even if you would remove the ability to "severely over-equip" and sort of round tweakability off at what today is considered "normal over-equipping", the gap would be too large. Because if monsters were to be balanced to low-techers, then all players who over-equip normally (most players do this) would have a far too easy time, soloing light reds etc. Remember that the major gap today is between those who never tries to over-equip anything and those who do, the "severely over-equipping" just gives a tiny extra bonus on top of that for those who work extra hard.

Considering that over-equipping is something that was designed into the game and that "normal" over-equipping is not at all a complicated task, I believe that this stage is what should be used as a basis for balancing. Those who put many extra hours of hard work in to "severely over-equip" will then be given an extra bonus, and those who want to use ql60 armor at level50 (which is about the armor you should easily be able to use without ANY single buff or implant at all)... well they will just have to live with being a little sub-average.

The problem with today's model is that mobs and missions (on higher levels) aren't balanced to the "normal" over-equippers like I'm suggesting, they are rather balanced to the "insane" over-equippers, so that even the average experienced player find himself having a really hard time, and for the lazier ones it's just downright impossible.


-------

NOTES:

1) By "normal" over-equipping I'm referring to: using your own buffs only, maybe asking for a simple buff from a friend, wearing a couple of implants that you would normally wear anyway, but not swapping implants actively etc. Anyone can (and should) "over-equip" to this degree.

2) By "severely" over-equipping I mean spending days looking for all the heaviest buffs there are, using a lot of different heavy implants and swapping them as you need them, getting +80 treatment buff and full medsuits, etc etc. Taking your time into doing this shouldn't be required to be able to play like it apparently is today (for some classes), but should be reserved for only the most determined players and give them a slight advantage.

3) Remember that no kind of over-equipping has ever (by Funcom) been considered cheating. It's a part of the game, and was deliberately made so. What is considered cheating is using EXPLOITS (which is basically a *bug* that is being used to an advantage) to give you extra ip etc, and that is something completely different. I will guess that much less than 1% of the community knows how to exploit. And Funcom will fix these bugs with time.

4) Using this suggested model, there are still of course imbalances in this game, but they don't belong to the general "over-equipping" debate, they are merely issues that needs to be looked into seperately, by the game balancers. (Ie. "class X needs to be nerfed, class Y needs to be boosted, mobs on level 150 must be nerfed, missions must be changed, bla bla").

From Funcom's AO Gameplay FAQ:

Is twinking an exploit?

No, we don’t consider twinking an exploit. However, we do believe twinking can unbalance the game in certain ways. Game mechanics, such as players requiring certain skills to use an item, help prevent twinking but it is possible that some people will be able to equip items that are a number of levels above their character's level. If twinking becomes a problem, and results in heavy unbalances, we will look into the situation.

[________Dumbasbricks]

1.) Exploiters must go (*bug enthutiasts*). Or even a better idea fix the bug and maybe there won't be any exploiters? nah too simple. Kick, Ban, and make it a very large issue...

2.) Over-Equipers - for the time of hours spent online and offline to get this done using legit game content. You have got to be kidding to punish them for it. You forget that this is another legit way to make some actual credits in the game since missions at high levels are nearly impossible to complete and team hunting and leveling will only make mission difficulty sky rocket. Nearing 100 and over it leveling comes to a very slow crawl unless you spend countless hours in front of your computer.

3.) Nerfing - I've made this point before. Don't try to balance a profession/class go back to your original concept of what you wanted those professions/classes to do and stick to it. A few players will complain that their Support Class can't kick ass in PVP but logic will soon sink in and they will realize that they weren't meant to win. With PVP aside and out of the way balance PVM for all professions/classes. These 2 need to be dealt with separately. Balancing the Professios/Classes in general will only create an imbalance in either PVP or PVM.

[_______________Vanya]

Hi Cosmik,

1. Make the mobs easier.
2. Ban exploiters without warning. If you know out of logs
of some exploiters ban them right now the few dollars they
bring arent worth it.
3. Leave Overequiping like it is.
4. Make better looking Dungeons they way they look and feel right now is a joke thinking this is a second gen MMORPG. Luclin is coming and it looks gooooooood.
5. Make events for the european player base or they will leave
and those dollars are worth it.
6. Fix Bugs

thats all then you have the perfect game

[______________jonjon]

This post does not address exploiters, that is a separate issue, but it does address "over-equipping." Why even have a game where you can install implants and run programs to improve yourself, if you are going to declare it "over-equipping" and take the ability away? That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. One of the biggest thrills in the game is to see what level of implants/programs I can get my hands on. If I am not using an exploit/cheat to get into that new armor then, by definition, that means I am appropriately using the implants/buffs the game has provided. I'll say it again, if you didn't want us to improve our abilities beyond our current level THEN WHY HAVE IMPLANTS/BUFFS THAT IMPROVE OUR STATS? If other people are too lazy to take the time to shop around and get implants and buffs then they should not cry about those who use them(I know a level 21 enforcer who has no implants). PvM is so unbalanced right now, that if I did not have the armor and buffs that I own, then I could not solo a single yellow mob. PvP is also too broken to go into but I suggest that most people who are complaining about overequipping are PvPers who got killed by someone they thought was a lower level then them. Again, this is not about people who use exploits to get into equipment they don't deserve. If you incorporate the idea where people only get partial utility from a higher level item then that is a nerf and it will stop people from trying to get implants/buffs and it will even make some people leave the game. Squash the exploiters and remove the bugs they use but leave the implants/buff system alone. It is one of the few ideas in this game that is still fun after all of these months.

[_______________Bjond]

Hmmm. A new thought on exploiters -- don't ban them, fine them. Charge them real money for disrupting the game. I don't think you should waste effort on an exploiter witch hunt. Spend ALL your development time fixing bugs until the game is clean. However, if a GM trips over someone exploiting, fine him and remove whatever he gained from the exploit (reset his IP, cash, xp, whatever).

[_____________Gorynel]

If I were to cancel my account, would my characters still be there if I wanted to re-subscribe later? I just need to leave AO due to financial circumstances.... Anyway, I thought somone might know the answer to this question and there wasnt any other place to ask.

[______________reggie]

Gorynel, no wonder, coz there isn't a general forum anymore.
They will store your char for 3 months. If you log in to your account on the web site, you will see details about your subscription, and information on unsubscribing.

[Cambist]

I'm assuming you meant someone you could group and gain XP with as well as letting those of lower levels buff anyone higher level than them. Posted the same earlier in the thread.. Actually a modified version of something jws suggested way back and Mikebond also suggested. Seems like a decent way to limit, but not destroy overequipping/buffing.

Originally posted by eleetist
1) Put a cap on the minimum level a player can be for you to buff them. My best opinion is that you'd have to be able to team with them. Anyone of a higher level is fine. This eliminates LvL 20 players from getting 100+ wrangles and Riot Control... Bring s game into balance, while players are still able to get +16, etc. Wrangles at the level (I think).

[Cambist]

Hey now, they already made trader buffs self-only and you can only do so much with implants. I think limiting buff levels would effectively eliminate the reasons for getting tons of ncu. It would also avoid hurting players who self-buff into ncu. My trader saves IP by buffing into her belts/memory.

Originally posted by ULTRA1
I think this needs to be extended to ALL equipment tho, BELTS, NCU, weapons, ARMOR, IMPLANTS. Belts in particular, because they are the root of all twinkage. IF you don't have the complit for you belt it should unequip same with NCUs.

-Sell-

[Champagne]

I HAVE PAID 50$ FOR A PILE OF ****!

AND NOW THAT MY FREE MONTH IS OVER, YOU BET YOUR *** THAT I WONT CONTINUE TO PAY 12.95$ A MONTH SO YOU CAN **** ME WITH ALL YOUR BUGS AND ****!!

TO ALL OF YOU NEWCOMMERS THAT JUST BOUGHT "ANARCHY OFFLINE" - YOU SUCKERS - HAVE JUST BEEN HUZZLED BY BUMMERCOM!

Funcom: You say you fix things with your patches - well since I bought the game 1 day short of a month now, I have probably downloaded over 20 mb of patches - and the game seems worse now than when I started playing.....!!!!

GUESS WHO ISN'T GETTING THEIR MONEY FROM ME IN DECEMBER?
You guessed correctly - FUNCOM!

GUESS WHO IS GETTING IT INSTEAD?
I need only say EQ!!


I have played a lot of crappy games in my life - but most of them never promised more than what they were! I COULD HAVE BOUGHT A DOUZEN OF CRAPPY GAMES FOR THE SUM I PAID FOR AO!!

FUNCOM : HOW DO I GET MY MONEY BACK? <--- I would really like an answer on this question!


Sincerly and disrespectful from a fellow norwegian former AO gamer!

EQ - HERE I COME!

[Arinia]

I'm posting a link to my editorial which focuses on many of these issues. I elected to make it a separate thread, because it is not of a complaining nature, nor does it suggest a course of action, as so many of these do. It is merely a list of observations, but an intersting read, IMHO.

It is my hope that someone from Funcom reads it.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...?threadid=2451

[TemplarRed]

Originally posted by reggie
hehehe.... rest of your post is good too.... although you have a lot of DONT's and few DO's.

DO's? Very well, then...

DO ignore player advice.

I'd love to play AO exactly as FC's creative team had originally envisioned it.

That would be first on my wish list. Listen to us when we have bugs to report, of course... but if AO becomes a piece of clay for the player community to mold, we'd soon have a piece of ever-changing, watered-down, compromised schlock. Everyone wants something different... everyone has an idea of what the game should be. If the dev folks make an attempt to appease everyone, then no one would be happy.

It's understandable, I suppose. Most of us aren't game designers or programmers (I'm not). Most of us haven't played every profession (I haven't). Many here are unable to look at the big picture (I can only try; just the same as anyone else).

A compromised/partial equipping cap/nerf wouldn't make anyone happy. The tactician/twinker community would be unhappy, for obvious reasons: A restriction is still a restriction, no matter how minor. But the 'casual players' won't notice the difference. They'd still be outperformed by any twinkers who don't cancel their accounts. Their 'problem' would remain unresolved, if anyone is able to become better than them, even if by a lessened degree. They'd still get jealous, just as before.

Off the subject, but... has anyone else noticed that a good number of these posts that call for weapon equipping nerfs have '...with my NT...' or '...my MA has...' somewhere within the context? Hehe... do you really think you guys would be left unscathed if the weapon users were destroyed? The nerf pendulum would swing back soon enough, my friends.

-Templar Red

[__________NicholaSix]

ya that's true, traders would feel the pinch the worst, but I think it needs to be done. When i made my twink I had a 4 slot belt in at level 6 and I was a meta. It was really easy.

I made 3 sets of implants
1. Comp lit and Int
2. Armor equip STR STA to stack with Iron, Behemoth, enlarge and the base
3. Combat implants

now equiping the ql80 beam was a breeze from there at level 10.

Not like these low level twinks are that useful for anything but arena combat, but it was a fun distraction.

Still as pass 100 IPs get pretty plentiful, and you will have no real problem bumping your comp lit.

If they do it for weapons they really should do it for belts and implants too. But the implant reduction would only have to be based on the stat not the treatment req.

And if this is done BY ALL MEANS Mobs must be NURFED too. They are already too strong at 100+

[Morthoseth]

Greetings!

...First off, I'd like to say that to discuss "over-equipping", you
almost HAVE to talk about exploiting as well. This is simply
because "over-equipping" is commonly mistaken for exploiting,
primarily by everday players who do not put forth the same time
and effort as the "hardcore" player. Indisputable....

Now, where do I start? Okay, well, what IS "over-equipping"?

...This, in itself, is a matter of perspective, is it not? I honestly
believe there is no such thing as "over-equipping", if infact, there is a genuine difference between equipping a high QL item fairly,
using in game mechanics creatively, and exploiting (Using bugs.) your way into something normally not within your level's reach.

Now, I know nothing of exploitation. As a matter of fact, an Mp friend of mine, and I rerolled for fun, and noticed a duping bug, which we quickly reported. This had to do with low lv PvP looting.

Anyway, to get to whatever my point initally was, I think there are
three types of equipping on Rubi-Ka. There may be more, but in
my opinion, this represtents the majority of our gaming populous:

1) The everday equipper. This person plays regularly, and enjoys
a good group hunt/mission/PvP, when they have the time to
devote to this wonderful game. They are not overly concerned
with having the absolute best equipment, nor do they have the
time to research the process to do do, however, who doesn't
want to get "Ooohs" and "Ahhhs". Who doesn't want to have that
big, cool, "Freshman, Rookie, etc." title? Everyone does, no? Well,
sad but true, these players are rarely the big hitters, or PvP
monsters. They are not weak, they are merely "average".

(I believe this has all been said before, however, I will continue.)

2)The power equipper. This is a devoted player, who spends time, and effort, to get into the best gear possible. They spend
many hours doing missions to get, or sell loot, to afford simply
the best Rubi-Ka game mechanics have to offer them. They simply
operate within the means that are allowed, never breaking any
rules, or taking advantage of bugs. Sometimes, this "class" may
take advantage of high level buffs, ramp implants to get into
higher ones, but this is merely ingenuitive equipping, using all
of the tools Funcom has given to them, and have readily been at
their disposal since day one. These are no exploiters....

They are power-levelers, and hardcore players. They, by no
means, deserve to be punished for being dedicated players.

Finally, 3) The exploiter. THIS is a person who will do *anything*
to gain the upper hand in all aspects of the game, *including*
exposing bugs for their twisted benefits. (If they want to test
bugs, they should go to the test server, and actually report
them.) They will exploit bugs that give them more IP than is
alloted in one level, dupe items various ways, use grid spawn
points as means to attacking the defenseless, in order to gain
a shallow notariety, and cushy PvP title.

These are the scum of Rubi-Ka. Truly OOC: More so than clan or
omni ever will be in each other's eyes. To truly make Rubi-Ka a free, and enjoyable place to coexist, you must first take a stand. Do not allow exploiting to knowingly continue, in any way. Friend or no, report exploiting. If you feel bad about using names, merely report the bug itself. Awareness, at least, gives FC a
chance at catching a "exploit epidemic" before it runs rampant.

We are partially responisble for sitting on exploit secrets
ourselves. My idea? Funcom should devise a "Bug and Exploit
Reporting" bonus. Not just for recruiting. If a player reports
a valid bug, that is a genuine threat to game balance, then they
should be, by all means, rewarded. Assuming they are not guilty
of using the bug to their advantage, first, which can be investigat-
ed before any reward is given to the discovering party...

That is merely one idea. There are other means, many of which
are in use, now. Such as comp lit being self only, for traders, and
agents. I did say agents, yes. Anyone can gather comp lit enough
to take on a large wrangle. For agents to self buff, or use other
profession nanos, they first need to use nano expertise's and
masteries to counteract the added nano cost, and penalties, such
as the -25 modifer that comes with the task. It's fair enough.

Treatment, admittably was another step, only because of IP
expoits, and other means to meeting requirements in an "unafair"
fashion for equipment and implants. With comp lit out of the way, they cannot buff into much higher QL implants nearly as well as they used to be, since NCU is limited. Which brings up the good
question of treatment nerfing even being an absolute neccessity.

Yes, there were players out there, already with more NCU, so
a mere comp lit nerf would not effect them. They, EXPLOITERS,
were already set, NCU wise, therefore it WAS neccessary to
"nerf" treatment, to even the odds for ALL players. This, to me,
is now understandable. But, now, you must realize this..

The players that exploited to get into the implants? One of two
things has, or in some cases, has not occured.

1) They have grown into the reqs for their implants and armor,
pre-"nerf", or are on their way into a plateu, beinging them into
even odds with us. The everyday, and hardcore players.
Treatment reqs, IMO, are irrelevant, for those who put them on
pre-12.8. That is NOT the concern. That, *at the time* was a widely used, "in-game feature. The "exploiters" cheated only the Base stat reqs. Treatment = Irrelevant. It wasn't an exploiters
tool, you MUST admit. It was thought as an allowed feature.

People who whine about high lv implant users are upset because
,perhaps, at the moment lacked the time, resource, or even
funds, to build the means to becoming "above-average".

That, as they say, is that.....

Now, 2) Here we have exploiters who stayed at lowers levels,
and to this day, capitolize on current player advancement
standards. These are what remain, as for exploiters.. at least,
of the pre-12.8 variety. There are, of course, and will always be new bugs, or in exploiter lingo "hidden features", and it is our job to keep funcom infirmed. This is reiterrated(sp) for the last time.

<b>Now. Preposed solutions.</b>

1) As mentioned, player "bug narc" insentive programs.

2)Strip all implants that do not meet the persons BASE STAT req's.
NOT their treatment reqs. Nay, to that idea.. it has nothing to do with exploits, and those who used treatment as it was, SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED. If you want us to leave, go ahead and do it....

To move on, this (#2) is explained, like so:

If your BASE STATS were buffed for you to get into an implant,
then it can be done again. No one, unless absent from logging in
for a given amount of time, pre-12.8, has not grown into the
BASE STAT req's, unless they are possible exploiters. If you are
having to be buffed into implants, chances are these are still new,
"fresh" implants, made after treatment was "altered".

To use myself as an example:

Around Lv37, I could equip QL90 *Agility* implants, with only
feline grace. Their req's were agility. Those *3* QL90 *Agility*
implants upped my agility enough to get into QL110's, with yet
another hit of feline grace. From there, I could not "Ramp" to
anything higher. This was as far as I could go, fairly using in game
mechanics. (I believe I used a Tsak for an additional +20 AGL)

This was an ingenuitive(sp) use of in game mechanics. Nevermind
treatment, as it was not a exploitive issue, and available to all.

Now, at Lv55, with the same implants in, I FAR surpass the req's
naturally. It is only natural that these stay on my person, consider
-ing that I meet the base REQ's. Must I mention, again, that
treatment is a "non-issue" in this matter? Thought not..

Another aid, 3)

Remove Armor, NCU's with their belts, as well as weapons from
all persons. (Again, not implants.) With the current self-only comp lit buffing, previous exploiters cannot get into their belts, and NCU's, this time around. If they can buff fairly into them, then it's all good, yes? Correct! Armor, is the one ever changing constant for those who level. Most exploiters stay at one level, since thier level of NCU's, and therefore buffed into armor, are dominant.

(I forgot to add nano crystals.)

Weapons, given NCU was fairly equipped, can be rebuffed on. If
your armor was buffed on prior to use, using a weapon
"req bonus", then it is suggested that you equip it first, and then
the armor afterwards. "It", being the weapon...

4th) Which hurts me to say, since I am an Agent:

Limit the agent self only comp lit buff to the +55 variety. There is also a +120 variety, which I have seen on a clan shopping channel. They have access to the +55, which is enough to get into a 6x belt, and 192NCU (32 per.) by level 65, or so, with an implant or two for comp lit. By the time they can use the 120, they will have been at a high enough level to max comp lit, and put one on reather naturally. No harm done. It was intended for agents to be able to use all profession nanos, and while I hate to mention agent issues here, it is a part of a comp lit discussion, therefore, is more than valid a point. With that said, on to "final five".

5)Wipe ALL IP! This would eliminate the advantage IP exploiters
have, from using whatever bug it was that gave them that "gift".

It would also, assuming nano crystals are removed, keep them
from using nanos, hence buffs, far beyond their levels. This in
itself, adds a great deal of balance itself. To be fair, completely
remove IP rings. That way, they're not there, and NO ONE shall
complain about not having the bonus from them, since no one
anylonger has the opportunity. (I knew IP rings would be an issue
and think this is the one, and only need for "tough love".)

**DEEP SIGH***

I think I have said my peace, and hope some actually do respond
to this, as it is my first REAL post on the official board. I do not
want a debate here, nor do I want things taken out of context, or topic. I believe this last statement has made that quite clear.

Respectfully,

Agent: Malik "Morthoseth" Cifuentes.

Hope lies in the rubble of this rich fortress,
Taking today, what tomorrow never brings!"

-Long live clan freedom. Adios...

(And if anyone knows anything about the ARK program, and if
they are still accepting applicants, please e-mail me at
Midgarizard@earthlink.net. Your help is very much appreciated. I merely lost the link given to me by an ARK on Rubi-Ka1, and would like the opportunity, still, to help my fellow players.)

(Thanks for the inspiration, Kunshi!! >8-)

[___________Ganymeade]

Buffing to equip or upload can't have been an oversight. There's too many ways in the game to "boost" your stats - both permanently with implants and temporarily with buffs - to not allow someone to equip something or upload something that their raw skill wouldn't have allowed. Buffing to equip an implant to get a "permanent" skill/stat boost is just a clever extension.

Several people have pointed out that not anticipating the complit buff, to over-belt, to over-NCU, to uber-over-buff for uber-over-equipping was the root of the current problem. But now that complit buff is not usable on others, that "vicious circle" is gone, right?

Several people have suggested no giving buffs to players who are grey to you. Good idea. It would need to be implemented for the rest of my preferred solution to work.

I agree with the position that if you buff to equip or upload something, it should not de-equip (or be "unlearned/unusable") when the buff fades. If you choose to unequip it, you'll need to get re-buffed to get it back on (or in), of course.

I also agree with the position that once the buff fades, that "overequipped" item or nanoprogram should not work at 100% effectiveness (unless you get re-buffed). But I think it SHOULD give you some degree of advantage. For example, if I could normally only equip a QL 25 thingymajig, but I get buffed and equip a QL 35 thingymajig, once the buff fades I should get a "less than optimal" QL 35 thingymajig - it's better than a QL 25, but maybe any of the following change - different damage distribution, different chances for fumbles/criticals, might only have a % chance to activate (for all-or-nothing type items), reduced protection values or impeding of defensive skills for armor, altered duration/casting time/resistance chances for NP, etc. (Not sure how to handle "constant benefit" items like a light source.)

The net result is, I'm better off with my overequipped item or NP, but it's not optimal and/or kind of unpredictable - I need to "grow" into it - or get re-buffed for temporary optimal performance. And the greater the gap between what I could have equipped w/out the buff and my overequipping, the lesser proportional advantage it gives me. (i.e. need a "diminishing returns" curve on the overequipping gap.)

The tricky part will be over-equipped implants, since they could have a "cascade" effect. I think the best thing there is a simple proportional reduction of the bonus they provide, once the buff that allowed implanting them fades. (And like other overequipped stuff, you "grow" into it or can get temporary optimal performance from a rebuffing.)

Not having any high lvl characters, I would not have thought of the MOB problem - but people are right - since there will certainly be degrade of existing players, MOBs will need a rebalance if you implement a "reduced effectiveness on overequipped stuff" fix.

I think this kind of solution will do two things - it will still allow for players to plan, work for, and get benefit from buff overequipping, without the uber-belt for uber-implant problem. But it will reduce the degree of the "WAY" overequippoing.

Will it "totally nerf" the trader's skill wrangle line? Not sure. Never played a trader and not familiar enough with detailed overequipping tactics to really have a good handle on it. (If it makes it as useless as Fixer summon ammo, yeah, it nerfs it bad. ) Might that be fixed by extending the duration of skill wrangle? i.e. make it not just an "equipping/loading" buff line but a "temporary optimizing for you overequipped people" buff? Sure, it would change the economics of the buff - think about it traders, give the first buff away for free, they'll be coming back for more buff-fix... and the wider their overequip gap, the more important for them to get those temporary optimizations...

That's the solution I'd vote for if it was put to a vote, anyway.

BUT - not everything should be up for a vote. What was the designers' intent? what went wrong? How would what was envisioned by more fun for more people than either a "mob rule" vote or a giant "try to please everyone a little" compromise?

Whatever you decide, people will find a way to "minmax" the system.

[Morthoseth]

Nah,

The strength of a weapon is already weaker buffed into, than when it is naturally equipped. Try being an agent, and actually *grow* into a rifle. As time passes, your attack rating, and damage will to. "Nerfing" the effective damage of a weapon, has already been done to plenty of classes. Don't screw with it any damn further. Instead, impower the classes that are in need of it.

Weapon damage, all around, has been altered enough.

As for traders not being able to buff a grey, I don't like it. It's an in game feature, that anyone can take advantage of. Why else would it be there? Any Lv40 can have enough NCU to get a +121 wrangle. It's not an exclusive thing, you know. If you have the NCU, you should be able to recieve the corresponding buffs, end of story. As mentioned above, with my plans encorporated, NCU's would then be on an even playing field, therefore ensuring that everyone has the SAME opportunity to make use of those buffs, depending on how they invest in comp lit. This also depends on one's natural affinity for such a skill. All a part of game mechanics.

NCU's control the buffs you get, and how big they are. Even a "non-over-equipping" player knows that. The playing field can be more than even without altering something as drastically, as that.

Altering statistics just throws off game balance further.

Respectfully,

Moi.