The Ability to capture and hold

[____________Ironheel]

Why sneak? Why not just fly in on a Yalm and flip the switch? Might as well not have guards if they terminate when the town/area switches sides as with that scheme it's ridiculously easy to take them out at any time. There needs to be something to force people to actually get threw some of the defenses rather then being able to completely bypass them.

The tactics could be awesome. A three pronged assault designed solely to get some Engi's in so they could beconwarp in some reinforcements, some snipers sneaking in to take up good fireing positions and all sorts of fun stuff, but being able to flip a switch and instantly take out the guards negates the need for any real tactics.

[_________Decameronus]

The only way for the switch idea to work, is if it WERE behind alot of defenses. This is why the switch would have to be in a building. It couldnt be anywhere in the open where you could fly in a yalm (more on that in a sec). It would also be necessary to setup the defenses/guards/guns in a way that you couldnt just run past them. I'm really just trying to think of way to capture a town without it simple being a numbers game, like NightFear said. There must be an action involved that captures the town... and the respawn on the changed guards would have to be long, like an hour. And it would have to keep getting pushed back if the control terminal kept getting hit, that way there could a prolonged battle over the control center with no guards to much things up (think of how the tide of a battle could change when the guards run away)... maybe even Respawn terms deactivate in the town during the 1 hr of transition, so everyone who dies respawns outside town.. I'd also love the see the act of control take several skills besides the basic combat skills of tanking and healing... maybe you need a special key to activate the terminal that only an engineer can build, it requires a high B&E and comp lit so a fixer would have to use it (or another prof/skill set like a crat). So you need someone to build the key, armed forces to get the key to the control center and an escort to get a fixer/agent/crat. This way it IS a major battle BUT a variety of profs are needed.. this would give high level teams something to do and strategize.

Yalms are a messy detail to this scheme because you could fly into a town... Although i'd still like to see some way of shooting down a yalm in a political or mayhem area... like a special anti-air gun or something... but thats a whole 'nother thing.

Deca

[Etus]

All of those ideas might be good, but will Funcom even consider to get them into the game?

- Yuval

[___________burrowowl]

Your MP is not helpless when it comes to your guards: far from it.

Try telling your healing pet to help the guard. See what happens.

MPs are the only profession that can assist guards in a manner that isn't technically "abuse" per Funcom guidelines.

[-Zagadka-]

hehe, try flying through the Notum Cannons in Clon... by the time I realized I was in range of the defensive cannons, I was very hurt.

Enough of those will do it, if placed correctly.

I think that capturing should be based on time - around 2 hours. It does, after all, take time for the guards to be dispatched. Hell, it would probably work even better if a GM appeared as one of the side leaders and declared victory.

The one switch thing is a bad idea. Look at Tribes Capture and Hold...

Perhaps several stages:

1) The scanner and reclaim change sides

2) The guards stop reclaiming (the reclaim no longer being their side's)

3) The automated defenses (if any) stop responding

4) Dead period.

5) Guards start spawning to protect the area.

6) Everything else switches.

This process could take 2 hours. It would make an attack of any size a dedicated struggle, not a quick strike, or ganking manuever.

[____________Ironheel]

Ok I just had an idea. What if there were multiple switches that had to be flipped in a certain order. Flip the first switch and the outer defenses fall. Then you can dig in and work on the inner defenses. Flip anouther switch and then those defenses go so it's just the players trying to stop you from flipping the final switch to change the side of the town.

[-Zagadka-]

Hm, I think that we are getting into a complex set of automated inner defenses... :-)

I think that a more likely way would be for a GM to change it over time... at least, for large areas. For smaller ones, killing the guards will probably be the trigger.

[___________NightFear]

I really liked your suggestion Ironheel about the mutiple switches. It gives the opposing force known objectives to accomplish in order to take over the town. First, spys will have to be sent in to find the location of these switches. Second a commando group could go in to try to disrupt activities. Then an assault force will have to plan and implement the main raid. If the town is caught unprepared, oh well, hope you like living under a different flag.

But, Vrach is also correct about getting into a complicated set of automated inner defenses. Everyone knows that high levels can kill guards easily. The trick is for the town to station high levels there to protect the switchs. That will be the biggest problem, especially when there is a lull in the battle, Guard Duty!

[______________Promoo]

Whooo everybody,
this is not some uber FPS this is RP game (or tries to be). The idea of capture and hold must be based on time in the area not a flick of a switch. To capture a city you must defeat the vast majority of the guards and then those that are left will move over to your side. See earlier Salve1/my post about this idea.

[Dauhuai]

I have to agree that the switches are either a bad idea or are getting out of control. Let me change that, not a bad idea since what this thread has become is a brainstorming session. However, in practice they seem misplaced. One reason I saw them as positive at first is that I am still a relatively low level character. A few guards would stop me from running in and flipping the switch. Not so with some of the high level tanks etc.

However, I still believe that the idea of towns going through phases and slowly switching sides with terminals etc. transitioning at different times would work better. It would take a major effort over and good planning to start moving a disputed area away from enemy control. As it was transitioning it would require more effort on the defenders part to stop the transition. For example: Guards are active, a few high levels are in town on guard duty (i.e. Sitting around chatting). Enemy forces strike the town in an attempt to seize. Reinforcements are called for but the town transitions and the guards leave or are weakened. News of the attack spreads and hasty defenders arrive in their Yalms. Still transitions again, no guards. Defenders are hard pressed. Etc.

It would require a large strike force to start but the attackers have the initiative. Defenses could rely on guards but only for so long. As for guard duty. Yeah that could be dull, or it could be a party. But if no one wanted duty and the other side attacked, it would make for an easy victory for them. The battle would go to those who have the will to succeed.

Sure would make European's popular since they could strike while most of us working stiffs slept. I could just see a few early (for Americans) attacks on vulnerable outposts carried out by teams of Europeans. We would log on to a new tactical situation.

Sincerely,
Randalpho 49th Level MP
Fought a guard the other day, just to see. With my heal pet on me, my attack pet attacking, I got him down 10%. I died proud and defiant.

[______________tiitii]

all good ideas, i love idea of being able to capture and hold territory

imagine if whompa in 2HO switched from omni to clan control!! lol
grid would always be available to both sides, but whompa, save terminals, shops could switch sides

my idea for taking control would be simple, capturable territories would have to have more guards and guns, in a few rings

the outer ring would be weakest, in order to control the outer ring, say the gate to 2HO for example, clanners would have to kill the guards repeatedly, and perhaps take out a few guns

the guns could be rather difficult, but once they are destroyed, an engineer has to come fix them and repair them, taking much longer

the guards, each time they are killed become weaker, and the respawn becomes longer, could be anywhere from 2hours to a full 24hours for guards to no longer respawn, then the outer ring is taken out

the inner ring would be more difficult, more higher level guards, heavier guns

so, imagine someone goes to do a mission at 2HO, and notices that some guns by the gate have been destroyed, and the guards at the gate are no longer red to him, but appear orange now!! whoa! he calls some guildies, try to come up with some engineers to come repair the guns, a call is made to protect the gate so the clanners can not further weaken the guards

for the omni side to be effective, they might have to prevent the clan side from killing the guards, and their engineers would need to repair the guns faster than the clanners could destroy them (or kill the engineers, and the engineer would lose a rare item to fix the gun with) gradually, over 2-24 hours, the guards could be back up to full strength and the guns fully repaired

but, if the clan side is stronger, they could overpower the omni force, taking out the outer defenses, and the omni side would fall back to the inner defense, now it would be a serious call by all loyal omni to prevent clanners from taking over control of the whompa access, access to stores, insurance reclaim, mission terminals, etc.

[______________tiitii]

many people complain about favorite hunting grounds being in 25% areas

well, what if access to these could be better controlled? and, a small outpost with a save terminal could be controlled by either side

if the 25% zone was omni, there would be some omni guards patrolling a few roads, bridges, a couple of strategic entry areas

there might even be a small garrison of omni guards not far from the hunting ground where a team could run to if they noticed some clan gankers nearby

then, if say a team of lvl 80-100 got ganked by a few of the hi lvl clanners, they would respawn at a save some distance away, but still in the same zone, and safely controlled by omni guards, guns, slayerdroids, etc. if they did manage to get revenge on the gankers, or bring some hi level buddies to help, however, the clanners would have a much longer trip from a save terminal outside the zone

or, what might be fun is, say the hunting ground is mainly for lvl 80-100 groups, in the small region of the hunting ground, it could be PVP for anyone lvl 75-100 or so, but u could not be attacked by a lvl 150 ganker unless u attacked them first

most of the zone would be a regular 25% zone, and it would be risky getting to the hunting ground, but once you are in the hunting area, a team of omni could level fairly risk free, UNLESS a team of clan around that level moved into the hunting ground, then u could fight over it, and have fun team vs. team fights with teams that are around the same level, but not the pointless ganking of hi-lvls against those many levels lower than them

[_____________Aadilya]

Having spent a number of months playing Dark Age of Camelot, which is 100% RvR (Realm vs Realm) oriented, I've a bit of a unique perspective on this whole discussion. I won't bore you with the specifics of DAoC, but suffice it to say that even the ability to take and hold cities and outposts gets very boring very quickly. Why? Because a given target just ping-pongs back and forth continually.

Imagine the ability to take control of a city, let's say Tir. It doesn't matter what must be done to make it change sides, let's just assume that once Tir is "liberated", all guards respawn as either Omni, Neutral or Clan, depending on who took the city. So, Omni claims the city. What happens? Well, first of all, any unfortunate Clanner who can't escape (via grid, or gate/whompa in a fast Yalm) get's killed. Ok, so within say, 1 hour, there are no longer any Clanners in Tir. Obviously they want it back, so what do they do? They mass in some other Clan city, and all likely Grid in, and assult whatever mechanism they need to assume control of the City. This continues until they get control, and *poof*, Omni is out. This continues on, happening over, and over. Eventially you stop logging out in cities because when you get back online there's only a 33% chance it's still yours, and you might get ganked by a guard immediately.

In DAoC, there were certain rewards that everyone of that realm got for claiming specific "Realm Keeps" (think capitol cities). These Keeps were much harder to take, but again, the same thing eventually happened. People soon levelled to the point where there were lots of high level players, people understood the best tactics for taking the Keeps, and suddently these Realm Keeps started getting swapped regularily. Again, it didn't take long to wonder what the point of taking them was. Would you bother trying to attack an enemy town if you knew they'd just take it back within 24 hours? And 24 hours after that your side would reclaim it? Gets pretty tired.

I don't know what the solution is. Like everyone (who is Omni) I'd love to be able to assume control of Tir. It would have to be sufficiently difficult so as to really make it a challenge, and have a real reward with it. Does the side who owns it get some sort of stat bonuses? Do they "tax" the inhabitants and get credits while they are IN THE TOWN DEFENDING"? And most importantly, these activities must affect the storyline immediately. Sure, that makes it more difficult on FC, but it'd be the story we're all looking for.

Aad

[Hyperion]

I allow myself to point to the link in my sig. I think you'll like it...