FREEDOM! My proposal for a democratic clan election.

[Fixerben]

Plain simple fact is that we could never get the Clans to all unite under 1 leader. There are too many, and too diverse phiosophies amongst the Clans. Beleive me, I tried. There are a few key guilds you would have to get the support of in order to obtain your goal D. And they arent really into politics. You cant control them, and you cant make them follow you. I wish I could unite all the Clans, like I was trying to do with the CoA, but I doubt it will happen. If your serious about this D we should meet and talk. Send me a message onplanet.

[Lyricia]

Originally posted by Aarseth
Still don't understand why only clan leaders(or top ranked people) have been nominated(with the exception of myself)....Looks to be another elite club trying to do politics, kinda reminds me of old earth and omni-tek systems... Never mind that.
I agree on the suggestion of a clan council where the clans a represented, not only major organizations but the whole of the clans..

I don't think its an elite club. The people mentioned are natural leaders and as such I would expect them to be in positions of leadership. If a person isn't in some form or another a leader already they either don't want to be or are unfit to be one.

Personally I would rather have willing and able people represent me. And for the record I too believe that a group of representives (with no way for one to gain power over the others) is the way to go for the Clans. Or at the least the willing ones.

There will always be fringe extremist groups like the Dust Brigade that won't cooperate. I don't think these groups should be included in what we call the Clans or we will we never move beyond the "It is not my fault, it was another clan."(as Mr. Houston put it) barrier we face now.

[Racquel]

As a current Omni-Tek employee, I realize my input here is rather unnecessary and perhaps presumptious.

However, I think that there is a topic that has been lightly touched on, but still needs consideration. Whomever you choose to lead you into the future, be it another Council or an individual, it is imperative that you also look at things from Omni-Teks end. The representative(s) that you choose are people that will be asked to routinely deal with Omni-Tek employees. That requires a certain amount of political savvy and ability to remain objective at all times.

However, among the list generated thus far of potentials, all of them have one uniting character trait, they are all what could be described as militants. Not to take away from their stature in the Clan community nor to suggest that they would be automatically disqualified because of their past, but it is important to note. Radiman was accepted by us as well as you because he was a moderate. He wasnt making a mad power grab like Silverstone and his thugs were. And if you look back at comments from many Omni employees, we show a certain amount of respect for Henry Radiman. No Omni employee I know has any amount of respect for the Sentinels. We see them as third rate dictators. And that is important if peace is the goal that you are setting out towards.

When one looks at the attacks on Omni owned mining complexes, they are often being led by the same here that are being nominated as leaders for a new age of peace and freedom. To me, that says that you do not believe peace is possible as long as Omni-Tek employees remain on planet. That is a shame, and ultimately, I believe to be self defeating. If violence is the only way towards peace, one has to wonder if peace will be worth the cost.

I am aware that Omni-Tek is filled with just as many militants as the Clans, perhaps even more so. But our leaders are much more moderate, and offer a chance for peace without war. Nominating the warrior elite of the Clans sounds more to me like the beginnings of a Junta than a Council of Freedom.

[____________Minoches]

Regretfully, I am not aquianted with many of the people mentioned here. But some of the attitudes I hear, could very well lead to our downfall. The simple fact is, Omni-Tek could probably destroy most of the clans if they put their minds to it. They haven't. So far.
But how do we know they won't in the future? We must not become more fragmented than we already are, we must stand together. We must try to carve a peace. We must reestablish the clans as a sovreign entity. Since the Tir Accord was disbanded, we have steadily fallen in the eyes of OT.
We must unite, reestablish the Council of Truth or it's equvivalent. We must get the Tir Accord reinstaded. We must stand up for our rights in the exploration of the Shadowlands.
We must not be further weakened, fractionized. We can't afford to show arrogance. We must fight for our rights for freedom and peace.
We need a someone to unite behind. But it can not be warrior, that would be affront to all we belive in. I'd welocome Radiman, but he has decleared he has no intention to return as our leader. I do not know who should lead us, but if we let soldiers as Silverstone lead us into the new future, I can only see our own demise.

[truls86]

Originally posted by Lyricia


I don't think its an elite club. The people mentioned are natural leaders and as such I would expect them to be in positions of leadership. If a person isn't in some form or another a leader already they either don't want to be or are unfit to be one.

Personally I would rather have willing and able people represent me. And for the record I too believe that a group of representives (with no way for one to gain power over the others) is the way to go for the Clans. Or at the least the willing ones.

There will always be fringe extremist groups like the Dust Brigade that won't cooperate. I don't think these groups should be included in what we call the Clans or we will we never move beyond the "It is not my fault, it was another clan."(as Mr. Houston put it) barrier we face now.

Yes they are all excellent leaders I'm sure, but they are all military leaders. Don't think a possible clan council should be full of militant leaders who are not interested in politics and the day to day administrating of clan terretories. The militant clans should of course get their say in this but a military council could be worked out afterwards.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Aarseth
Yes they are all excellent leaders I'm sure, but they are all military leaders. Don't think a possible clan council should be full of militant leaders who are not interested in politics and the day to day administrating of clan terretories. The militant clans should of course get their say in this but a military council could be worked out afterwards.

Henry Radiman and Dr. Ervin "Hayjyin" Houston are both peaceful men. In the future, please take time and learn about who you speak of before speaking about them.

[Aazamon]

Dear Clan friends

I see no reason why Thedeacon wouldn't make a fine chairman to a Clan governing council. Thedeacon is a fine Nanomage, who's good nature can be mistaken by some to be boffoonery. This however is not the case, he is a people person and he enjoyes making people laugh. This fact should not take away from your concidering his candidacy in such a council. Also if you create this council I think Clans of all walks of life should be recognized as having a role, be they millitant, peaceful, or in your oppinion "off the wall". If they are Clan, and have a wish to participate they should be concidered.

The view to many neutrals that the Clans are barbaric and warmongers has come from the death of the Council of Truth and the Clans lapsing into true anarchy. This needs to end and I fully support anyone brave enough to even concider this monumental challenge. My piece of advice to all parties, be prepared to compromise where you can or this will all fall into peices before it goes ahead.

I would also like to say a thank you to all of you who have expressed concern over neutrals being shot by sentenels in Tir. I would like to assure you that most neutrals are just as concerned about the mercenaries in Newland City. I will be willing to work with your new Clan council to find a solution to both of these situations. Also, I have some environmental concerns that effect all Nanomages and would like to hear from any other Clans that are environtmentally concerned as well. I hope you keep a place for them in your council.

[Kithraks]

You do realize that the Clans own a vast majority of the most productive private notum mines on Rubi-Ka. For someone worried about the effects of notum mining you certainly have taken a liking to them. Perhaps this is really what you really want, to promote the clans into foolishly electing their millitary's elite to dominate and cause a war that will cause the downfall for both parties?

[Aazamon]

Originally posted by Charles
You do realize that the Clans own a vast majority of the most productive private notum mines on Rubi-Ka. For someone worried about the effects of notum mining you certainly have taken a liking to them. Perhaps this is really what you really want, to promote the clans into foolishly electing their millitary's elite to dominate and cause a war that will cause the downfall for both parties?

I am simply trying to open a dialogue and to encourage some form of stabillity where the concerns of the Nanomage people will more likely be served. Chaos, war, and destruction will only hasten the destruction of Rubi-Ka as each side strips her of her bounty to fight each other. I will admit I am strongly opposed to the Sentinels Clan for not only being warmongers, but the developers of the Clan notum mining bases. There are however many Clans who see things differently and in a time of peace and order I think it will be possible to show the Clans that thier search for short term profits through mining of notum is not only harming the planet, but ensuring the suppremecy of Omni-Tek on Rubi-Ka. That is not to say I am against Omni-Tek, the creators of the Nanomage poeple. It is simply that I do not see Omni-Tek as having a role in ruling Rubi-Ka. However before my ideals and the threat to the Nanomage poeple due to the exportation of Notum off planet can be addressed there must be order amongst the Clans. This order must be self instituted by the Clans, and to ensure stabillity it must be seen as legitimate by all Clans.

And furthermore Charles do not presume to think you can fool me into a trap by trying to insinuate I am perpetuating the war wich Omni-Tek and the Clans have had no trouble on thier own to wage for centuries. As well the privately owned mines are but a pitance compared to the huge deep mines exclusively run by Omni-Tek and that are safe from your Clan enemies while you let them wage a war in the false sense that they are actually winning something from Omni-Tek. We all know that every ounce of notum mined on Rubi-Ka still goes to Omni-Tek for processing and export. As well the only reason Omni-Tek does not directly interfere in these opperations is that they are too small to be of importance, too inneffecient to run themselves, and too profitably exploited by private Clans and Omni departments for Ommi-Tek itself to get directly involved or care.

Also I have petitioned you too help in the cause of YOUR people Charles and you seem to still only tow the company line. I will always support democracy and prosperity of my people whichever corner of Rubi-Ka it comes from. I do not hold great hope in the Clans but I hold hope. I also would think that should a Nanomage lead the council it would profit Rubi-Ka herself the most.

[Fixerben]

I agree with this Council idea. When I had the CoA we had a council, and the Council had 2 members from each guild. Guild leaders were not allowed to be council members. And that was 2 votes in all matters for each guild, no matter their size or importance. At the head of this Council was the Chairman. The Chairman was simply the authoratative figurehead that represented the Organization to outside parties. He was not the "President", but more of a Mouthpeice for the Council. The Council made all the decisions through a fair vote, and the Chairman would conduct the outside relations with other guilds, and advise on new policies based on the current political climate. In the case of this new Council the Chairman would need to be someone that Omni-Tek would take seriously. I hardly fit that bill, I'm the real Blue Shady. And Galahad...well...If you showed up to a political meeting to see a man in a full suit of shining armor, what would you think. The image of this Chairman is an important thing. So it has to be some clean cut, that has not gone wacko in his life time. And this person must also be objective, and able to see things from all sides. While I pride myself on having these characteristics, I would not want the responsibility, nor can I think of anyone that fits all of these traits. Of course no one is impeccable, so we would have to compromise some how. But to me, that is how it should be. The Chairman acts as the Public face of the Council, and the Council has equal representation from all interested parties to make everything fair (this would include the Sentinels, but not the Dust Brigade, we wouldnt deal with Terrorists, but we can handle extremnists).

[Nexeus]

Okay, maybe I missed a few things and didn't read every little thing to it's completely detail here, but here are my comments:

- The clans CANNOT function as an org, meaning we will fail flat on our face if we had one leader and then people who would take on other forms of leadership, like "Ministry of Defense" or "Ministry of Finance". Clearly, as expressed, we need a council, a group of us clan leaders to work together. What will happen, and what we fight against, is if there was one singular authority figure, and they make a decree that we disagree with being that person is the "Clan Leader" we are all tagged with that decision, whether we support it or not.
- Even as a council as a whole, and representatives from each org, we need several people to step up and take on several different types of roles. What does this mean? Well there are a group of organizations who deal strictly with war, why not set up within the council several houses or divisions of organizations so that they can better devise defense plans, war aid and talk to the CoT?
- Having a clan representative. This is a good idea, one of the better ones I've heard, granted we can get into the problem of having this representative speak more for us than needed. So if that is the case then, why not have an elected clan representative, and every so often re-elect this official or not based on their performance?

We as clan members are too scattered to form under one "Clan President". I think with the guidance of Mr. Radiman, and other members of the previous council we will be able to survive and work well as a cohesive unit, even if it seems that the cohesive unit is scattered and chaotic.

[Fixerben]

- The clans CANNOT function as an org, meaning we will fail flat on our face if we had one leader and then people who would take on other forms of leadership, like "Ministry of Defense" or "Ministry of Finance". Clearly, as expressed, we need a council, a group of us clan leaders to work together. What will happen, and what we fight against, is if there was one singular authority figure, and they make a decree that we disagree with being that person is the "Clan Leader" we are all tagged with that decision, whether we support it or not.

Thats right, That is why equal representation for all parties is a must.

- Even as a council as a whole, and representatives from each org, we need several people to step up and take on several different types of roles. What does this mean? Well there are a group of organizations who deal strictly with war, why not set up within the council several houses or divisions of organizations so that they can better devise defense plans, war aid and talk to the CoT?

That makes sense, infact thats how the CoA was organized. It was actually in 3 divisions. Diplomatic, Legislative, and Military. Diplomatic conducted outside relations. Legislative was where all the guilds had their say in things, and where all the rules were made and our constitution ratified. Military branch simply consisted of peacekeeping forces. I was the Captain of the Military branch, and my brother Benjacrat was the Council Speaker which was part of the Diplomatic branch. He was the public face of the CoA.

- Having a clan representative. This is a good idea, one of the better ones I've heard, granted we can get into the problem of having this representative speak more for us than needed. So if that is the case then, why not have an elected clan representative, and every so often re-elect this official or not based on their performance?

This was Benjacrat's role in the old CoA.

I would like to hear Cemeterygate's comments on this type of governing form.

[Raurie]

There have been many great ideas and certainly plenty of outstanding leaders among the clan. Some I agree would make a very good representative and others though they are good people and devoted clansmen I do not feel would be a good representation of all the clans. This is not for me to decide, but for the Clans a whole. Provided that a person is chosen by the people I would even support those I personally do not feel make the best representative.

Let us not make the mistakes the former CoT made. They did not listen to the people that they were to represent. It is because of this that the CoT failed. It is not Radiman's fault the CoT failed. He was simply a spokes person, the mouth piece if you will, of the CoT. It was and should be the CoT's responsibility to listen to what the huge conglomeration of Clans want and come up with the best solution so that not one person or persons or just a handful of Clans want is heard. Each and every Clansman should have had a voice and the majority of that voice should be the deciding factor. We may not all agree on every issue, but if we are doing what the majority want and use a majority rule how can we go wrong. The former CoT failed us.. yes Radiman was chairman, but he was bound by the limitations of his position. He was not and never claimed to be the LEADER of the clans, but more their voice. However as Chairman of the council he was bound to do what the majority of the council set forth... again it was the council who failed us and not Mr. Radiman. If we are to truly form another council and have any hopes that it will work we MUST hear from ALL the clan each and every person.. not just our guild leaders, but every last person should have a voice.

I have always wanted Freedom for not only the Clans but for all of Rubi-ka. I hold no ill will for the Omni employees, most want peace as badly as I do, and try to live their lives the best they know how. I support the Neutral in their right to not choose sides. It is and should be their right as a free citizen of Rubi-ka to do so. I am a proud Clanner, I have chosen to take up arms against my oppressors when necessary to protect not only my rights but the rights of ALL who inhabit this planet we call home.

I am a clanner through and through. I am nothing if not loyal. I will support defend and fight to my last breath for the freedom of all Rubi-kan citizens. However, the bottom line is I am clan, no ifs ands or buts about it. I may not always agree with my fellow clan factions we may not go about things the same way, but when it comes down to it I will defend my fellow clansman at all cost

Opposing Force is now and has always been about Freedom. Freedom from anyone who would try to deny us the rights to choose how we will live our lives. Freedom from all those that would try to oppress us and silence us. With or with out the CoT Opposing Force still stands for freedom. Our ultimate goal is for a lasting peace on this planet we call home, however peace is not always a "peaceful" process. We will stand strong and we will continue to fight for Freedom and we will do what ever it takes to gain that freedom. We will not allow our homes to be taken over, we will fight to our death if need be to ensure we do not loose what we have fought so hard to gain, and we will continue to push forward until we can live with out fear of Omni Tek or any other Corporation.


Marylynn "Rauri" Kozar
President Opposing Force

[Raurie]

[COLOR=sky blue]*****At the time when I wrote this I believed all the senseless attacks on the neutral community had ceased. Although they have not stopped totally it is a better situation than it once was. I have voiced my support of the Sentinels leaving Tir so that the neutral community can once again travel with out fear in Tir. This is however, the situation and the article that Mr. Sumokan speaks of. I feel that what I did that day was correct and honorable and Opposing Force has been true to their word. To this day we have not attacked Mr. Sumokan or any of the EO or any other neutral organization. I stood behind my advisors actions then and would again today given the same set of circumstances.

I was under the impression all was settled and maybe not friends at least we left things on civil terms. It saddens me to see such animosity over something that should have been laid to rest nearly a year ago. Those who know me know I am not a violent person nor one to harass another person. I met with Mr. Sumokan then President of EO so that we could come to an understanding. I was not present when the attack on the clanners took place nor was I available when my advisor opend fire on EO's base. Given the information of not just one person who had been killed my Mr. Sumokan and EO that day, I support the decisions made in my absence.

As to me giving him grief, well of couse I deny that. I meerly asked some questions of him and of my people so that I could fully asses the situation and come to a peaceful resolvement. I wrote the article not to cause Mr. Sumokan or EO any embarassment, but to show how we can come to peaceful resolvements in the face of conflict. Those who know me will know the truth in this.

Either way both sides have been heard. Had I realized that my commenting in support of reforming a CoT and trying to unite the Clans would have led to this getting off topic over an incident that happend eons ago then I would have remaind silent.[/COLOR]

__________________________________________________ __

12 December 02 AOVault

A word from Opposing Force-AO President, Rauri

I received an e-mail from Opposing Force President, Marylynn "Rauri" Kozar this morning. She makes her organizations stance crystal clear! She calls the attack on Tir "senseless brutality".

These are troubled times we live in. I find I must constantly make one stand after another. I am a Clanner through and through. I am nothing, if not loyal. I will support, defend, and fight to my last breath for the freedom of all Rubi-Kan citizens. However, the bottom line is: I am Clan. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. I may not always agree with my fellow Clan factions. We may not go about things the same way at all times. But when it comes down to it, I will defend my fellow Clansman at all cost.

Opposing Force has always supported the Neutral community, we believe they have the same rights to freedom as any other person living on Rubi-ka. The brutal attack on Commander Steel has me so torn. Yes, Fisk was brutal, but
we fought and urged for Tir to be a safe haven for Neutrals.

Fisk may still feel the way he did, but the attacks on the Neutral community have come to an end. So, I was
horrified to find out that President Sumokan of Elite Operations, had lead a brutal attack called "Operation Gank Steel" and went as far as ordering Steel's head cut off. This was not just an attack on The Sentinels, but an attack on fellow Clansman and on our great city of Tir. This affront to the clans came shortly after Opposing Force and several other guilds put their lives on the line to aid the Independent Rubikans.

Members of Opposing Force and Apocalypse, to name a few, were brutally killed in cold blood after defeating the Omni and running them out of the area, saving the IR's base in the process. While the IR's were busy thanking the Clansmen who had come to their aid, Sumokan repeatedly killed the very people who were there to try to help the Neutral community, in cold blood.

When President Sumokan was contacted, because it was hoped that it was a mistake, he and his men replied with more threats to those who had just risked heir lives on the battlefield.

After Sumokan's senseless brutality and the attack on Tir, Opposing Force's advisor, Kunn, was so angered that he lead a raid on the Elite Operations base and destroyed it in retaliation.

The next day I met with the President of EO and one of my members who had been attacked by him the day before and an understanding was reached. As long as EO does not attack another Clanner we will leave them in peace and
never attack them again.

I must say this now, not as an idle threat, but as a promise. If any of my people or any of my fellow clansmen are attacked, Opposing Force will respond in kind and no mercy will be shown. We will not live in fear of anyone, Clan, Omni, Neutral or otherwise."

Marylynn Rauri Kozar
President Opposing Force AO

[Nealandbob]

((OOC: Sorry to be sidetracking your thread like this))

It is as at this point that I must step in, to also give my perspective of what happened that day.

The members of Op For, Apocalypse, and other Clan guilds((forgive me, it's been too long to remember)) were there to help defend IR's base at my own urgent bequest. Your people fought gallantly and bravely that day, and brought much credit to the Clans as a whole in my eyes with their timely and courageous help. I was, and still am, proud to be able to call those people friends.

It is here that I would like to say that the misunderstanding between EO and OpFor that day is entirely my fault. I would have announced this earlier, but I was unaware and not included in the interactions between EO and OpFor following the unfortunate event at our base. By the time I learned about what happened between EO and OpFor in the days following the attack, it was too late for my input to be of any help.

I had my own personal comms set up for defenders that fateful day. However, between the raging battle and frantically trying to send and answer private tells, I was unaware EO was enroute with reinforcements......it is entirely possible I simply missed the message in the battle spam. As a result, EO was never in the private channel I had set up for defenders to communicate. The first I knew of EO's presence was immediately after the attack had been repelled.

The battle was freshly over, and we were enthralled to see the Control Tower slowly repairing itself after taking a rather severe 95% damage. Had my Clan friends arrived 2 minutes later than they did, the base surely would have fallen. I was busy starting to thank everyone who rushed to our aid that day, helping to repel the attack even though our base's defenses were malfunctioning, and attacking the very people there to help us((this is a good reason why NW has been so hard for Neuts.......we can come to help Sided people to defend, but it's hard for them to come help US because they're attacked by our Towers, even when teamed )). Sumokan apparently mistook Javaschick to be an attacker........had he and the rest of EO been in the channel I had set up, this would NEVER have happened(I learned later EO had just come from defending against a Clan attack, and evidently assumed Clan there were attackers instead of defenders because of that). As soon as I realized what was happening, I shouted for Sumokan to stop.........alas, too late

To the best of my knowledge, Javaschick was the only one who met an untimely demise this way. The statement about "repeatedly killing in cold blood" is incorrect, imho; at least, this single occurance is the only one I was unfortunate enough to witness.

I tried frantically to mediate the situation after that, but with no success. The thrill of victory turned to agony oh, so quickly that day :/

That was all I witnessed personally, so the rest of the interactions between EO and OpFor, either before or after that day, I can't comment on.

But I must reiterate: what happened that day was completely my fault. I have no doubt whatsoever that this would never have happened, had EO been in the chat I had set up. This was a VERY unfortunate accident, nothing more. That is the conclusion I must draw from my experiences that day.