Some Neutrals and Clanners find common ground

[Nevver]

Let me see if I have this all straight...
[list=A][*]Clanners were attacking Neutrals and this upset the Neutrals.[*]Some Neutrals got together and pooled their money to hire peacekeepers to keep Clanners out of Newland City so they wouldn't get killed anymore.[*]The Clanners got upset because they could no longer go to Newland City (presumably to kill more Neutrals).[*]Now, the Clanners are cozying up to the Neutrals saying they're helping the Neutrals to get rid of the peacekeepers (the same ones hired by the Neutrals to protect them from the Clanners) because the peacekeepers are not only "oppressing" (read: beating the heck out of) the Clanners, but they've convinced the Neutrals that the peacekeepers are "oppressing" Neutrals as well.[/list=a]

Am I the only one who sees the comedy in all of this?

[Aazamon]

Originally posted by Nevver
Let me see if I have this all straight...
[list=A][*]Clanners were attacking Neutrals and this upset the Neutrals.[*]Some Neutrals got together and pooled their money to hire peacekeepers to keep Clanners out of Newland City so they wouldn't get killed anymore.[*]The Clanners got upset because they could no longer go to Newland City (presumably to kill more Neutrals).[*]Now, the Clanners are cozying up to the Neutrals saying they're helping the Neutrals to get rid of the peacekeepers (the same ones hired by the Neutrals to protect them from the Clanners) because the peacekeepers are not only "oppressing" (read: beating the heck out of) the Clanners, but they've convinced the Neutrals that the peacekeepers are "oppressing" Neutrals as well.[/list=a]

Am I the only one who sees the comedy in all of this?

Indeed you are the only one to see comedy in this as you are quite uninformed. One neutral organization felt the threat of the Sentinel clan wa severe enough to hire mercenaries to "protect" Newland City. Most Neutral citizins did not support this plan and saw it as an aggression on our Clan friends. Many Clan members have expressed dismay that thier beloved Tir city has been taken over by the sentinels and have been aggressive towards thier neutral friends. These groups have always, from the very beginning supported each other in thier dislike of the more oppressive regimes in both Tir and Newland City. To simply label one a Clan and equate that with one mentallity is simplistic and foolish. The same goes for neutrals, to simply label someone neutral and equate that with a singular philosophy is quite simply incorrect. No matter your views on what it means to be a Clan member, or to be neutral the simple fact that both those factions are varied and complex and not easily tagged with singular political or philisophical views.

Therefore within the Clan and Neutral populations there has been heated debates over the presence of both the Sentinels and Thugs with supporters and detracters for both. Your obvios attempt at oversimplification is an overt attempt to make either Clans members or Neutrals seem like either fools or hypocrits when in fact on an individual basis they have been steadfast in thier personal beliefs.

[Nevver]

Thank you for clearing up the position of a large part of the Neutral community, Sumokan. As I see it, as far as Neutrals are concerned, one of the biggest differences between Omni-Tek and the Clans is that Omni-Tek doesn't smile at you one minute then stab you in the back when you turn away. Omni-Tek has never pretended to be anything other than what it is - a for-profit corporation.

These Clanners are simply unhappy about being barred from such a strategic location as Newland City and are trying to convince Neutrals that the guards that are there to protect Neutrals are somehow bad for Neutrals! This is the same crying that has been going on recently regarding the portals to Jobe. I know that the Clans have better spin doctors so it surprises me that they didn't use them when beginning their ludicrous campaign of Fear For Freedom.

I am looking forward to hearing from you when you return to Rubi Ka.

[Fixerben]

Nevver, You know damn well that most of the Clans dont like Silverstone being in Tir. Stop trying to make trouble.

Sumokan, Just because the New Land Council asked EO to fund the Mercenaries does NOT mean that other guilds support them. Therefore you can not take the hiring of these guards as an action on behalf of all Neutrals. Thats like saying that because Silverstone took over, I wanted him to, and so did all the Clans.

A majority of the Neutrals had NO say in the hiring of these Mercenaries, and for all we know they never wanted them in the first place.

Just like the Clans had NO say in Silverstone coming to Tir. You cajnt pin that on all of us.

[Nevver]

Just like you can't pin the deaths of some miners who died over two hundred years ago on all Omnis, right?

[Aazamon]

Originally posted by Nevver
Just like you can't pin the deaths of some miners who died over two hundred years ago on all Omnis, right?

Couldn't agree with you more. Although you don't have to go back a few hundred years to show evidence of Omni-Tek wrong doing, or Clan wrong doing for that matter.

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Fixerben
Nevver, You know damn well that most of the Clans dont like Silverstone being in Tir. Stop trying to make trouble.

Ben, where exactly do you get your figures for that? I've heard a number of clanners defend the Sentinels, Famin and possibly Cemetreygate come to mind. And certainly all clanners I have met prefer the Sentinel's to the neutral ICC peacekeeper troops, I guess on the principle that any clanner, even a fascist clanner, is still superior to the rest of humanity.

Savoy

[Nevver]

No denying that, Aazamon, but if you follow Clan logic, the very scientists who opened the Jobe portals are just as much to blame for those miners as Philip Ross simply because they worked for Omni-Tek.

[Aazamon]

I am extremely weary of the idea that there are things called "Clan Logic" or "Omni Logic". Generalizations such as these are used by leaders to villify the other side and deify themselves. Let your actions of today speak for themslelves and let no other man speak for you.

[Nevver]

Well, if you prefer, we can substitute "dogma" instead.

[Cogs]

The fact remains: The vast majority want mr. Silverstone and his thugs out of Tir, and for the city to yet again open to our friends in the neutral community.
Honestly, I do not fear the words of dilletants such as Devils Advocate or Elite Operations. They are in design and heart only interested in one thing: namely to uphold the confrontation at top level, and will stoop to any means, verbal or physical to see this through.
We dont need this extremist input, we need to get our heads together; those of us who care; to set this thing right, the sooner the better.

[Laeni]

Ah yer all bad for business. Newland City was the sweetest little gig. Now you have to tiptoe around those big goons just to make contact with the customer.

And if a neutral customer wants to meet with me, we always gotta go to Borry or Last Ditch on account of Simon and his goons.

None of ya think about the businessman...er...woman.

Katelin "Kaetty" Russi
The Independent Fixer

[Nealandbob]

Nealandbob speaks:

I do not pretend to be able to speak for all Neutrals, nor even for my Guild. My views and actions are simply my own, nothing more.

I was present at the planning meeting to hire the Thugs, and lent my support to the endeavor. I did so with a heavy heart, knowing full well that my Clan friends would find themselves hunted in Newland City, but I had to make that hard choice for what I believed to be the ultimate benefit of all concerned. Namely, the overthrow of the Sentinels in Tir, so that Neutrals and Clan could peacefully resume our previous hunting and commerce arrangements to the benefit of everyone involved. And honestly, I believed there would be a resolution much sooner than this.

Actually, the Sentinels don't even have to be overthrown to satisfy the terms of the Contract with the Thugs. They can simply change their stance to one of tolerance and non-aggression towards Neutrals. Failing that, however, replacement of the Sentinel regime in Tir with another that tolerates Neutrals but has a heavy hand towards Omni would accomplish the same thing. After all, my ONLY intention with supporting the hiring of the Thugs was the normalized relation between Neutrals and the Clans. It is not, and never was, my intention to begrudge the Clans their right to have a defensive force protecting Tir from invasion by Omni-Tek.

At the meeting, before I gave my support, I made Sumokan Promise me that the Contract would be fulfilled if Sentinels were either overthrown/replaced, or changed their policy to one of non-aggression towards Neutrals. I have no way of knowing if this was already in the Contract, or was added in, or not. I still have that Promise in my heart and in my mind however, and if Neutrals are allowed to enter Tir freely again, and our cities no longer threatened by hostile takeover, then to the best of my knowledge the Contract is fulfilled and the Thugs will IMMEDIATELY depart. Should any part of that be untrue, or if I was decieved directly, then rest assured the world will see a new Nealandbob they have never seen......and those responsible will whisper my name with great trepidation and trembling lips. I was given a Promise, and this is my Promise in return.

((OOC:I just started an RP alt, but he of course has no knowledge of the Thug Contract. I'm going to start getting into RP a bit more, I think, so please pay attention to which char I'm using atm, thanks!))

[Pyromanche]

This I personally find most disturbing...

oringinally posted by Sumokan: This is why I am writing and boarding a ship. My orgs mission statement is to protect neutral cities from inside and outside threats. I will ask the New Land Authorities for arrest warrents. With myself and some help from others we will drag those traitors to face charges and stand trail. If found guilty I Sumo will ask the pleasure of beheading those responsible!!

Since I am boarding the ship and will go to cryo sleep I will not be able to respond to the idiots that will cry over this, you made your bed now you have to sleep on it. We will talk soon enuf when I knock down your damn door and drag you by whatever parts are accesable.

I only have one question... who appointed you "Judge Dred"? You leave the planet after installation of the Mercs, not to be seen or heard from while the rest of us stay behind to rebuild the neutral community and now want to come back and tell us how to behave? pfft.... sorry Sumo, that does not fly with me.

I do not look at someone's affiliation to Clan or Omni like I used to, as a member then later, President of Elite Operations. I know all too well what went wrong, and I know that this will not fix it.
We are not the same community YOU left behind, the rude awakening is yours and anyone else's who thinks you can push one of us around.. cause you push all of us around now. We are better, stronger and more able to stand united when need be.

[Nevver]

Do not worry, Sumokan. I have already begun work on a new solution to deal with the Clans.

[Laeni]

Originally posted by Nevver
Do not worry, Sumokan. I have already begun work on a new solution to deal with the Clans.

Tsk, tsk. Amateur, strictly amateur. Couldn't fool a mutant with that, Nevver.

No wonder DA turned itself into good little Omni Goons. Couldn't make it in the business. No subtlety.

Too bad, so sad.

Katelin "Kaetty" Russi
The Independent Fixer

[Nealandbob]

To Nealandbob: You and Softouch are the only ones in the IR I admire and respect. I gave my word to you and will honor the agreement so help me God.

Thank you, Sumo. That's all I needed to hear =)

[Nyadach]

Originally posted by Sumokan
I will concede the point that the majority of neutrals (PC) do not want the mercs. However that is beside the point. The fact is the people of New Land (NPC) and the Goverment of New Land authorized the Mercs and have every right to do so.

Ahhh, so now we get it...Newland is a dictatorship and the thoughts of the MAJORITY have no right what so ever there. That now makes soooo much sense. If they say they are not a dictatorship then fine, they should do the only decent thing and stand down control of Newland to a democratically elected council. The Newland Council doesn't listen to its population, you said so yourself. And any government when they don't listen to the population, it means they should be out on there backsides. Ohh, but no they don't go...why? because they have a hired militia protecting there twisted interests in a once very busy town which was a beacon for peace and everyone working together on Rubi-ka.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Many neutral guilds such as the Independent Rubikans have policies about attacking neutral guards and even placed "Wanted" posters of Omni/Clan who killed guards. The New Land Mercs are employed by New Land hence they are Neutral guards. (OOC due to FC game mechanics the Mercs were given Omni side since if given Neutral status they would just standby and watch neutrals get killed by Sentinals)

Actually, the reason they are Omni is 1) because they then auto shoot Clanners on sight, and 2) it gives a little deterant (although not much) to all the Omnis who loved to stand in Newland killing them (they still did that for the hell of it, but still). And 3) because Omni-tek backed you're little hiring policy. Nice going there selling out to a faction. And on you're final bit there about standing by, these thugs do standby, they do NOTHING to help a neutral citizen than to make threats to them or ignore them if they are underfire from anything. All they are interesting in is making some poor little guy who's only just came to the planet get his life handed back to him time and time and time again as they are camping the backyards.

As for our poster campaigns. Yes we posted wanted posters for Neutral guard killers. We never did for the ICC, although we did massively hate them being attacked as atleast they tried to help us. And we definatly won't be for the Omni Thugs.

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Nyadach


because they have a hired militia protecting there twisted interests in a once very busy town which was a beacon for peace and everyone working together on Rubi-ka.

Newland City a beacon of peace? Who writes this stuff? NLC was always a place were people used to gather to form war parties. Until the suppresion gas was fixed, the the merchants in NLC were regularly murdered by criminals from both OT and The Clans. Not to mention the fate of the guards. I am sure the ICC troops were more than happy to leave NLC given their short live expectancy their.

So yes, by all means you can argue that Warrs mercs are a politically embarassment and that they decision to place them was not democratic. But come on, to pretend that NLC was ever a "beacon of peace" is dishonest to the extreme.

Savoy

[Nyadach]

Originally posted by Savoy
So yes, by all means you can argue that Warrs mercs are a politically embarassment and that they decision to place them was not democratic. But come on, to pretend that NLC was ever a "beacon of peace" is dishonest to the extreme.

Although it was formed through peace for when the Clans and Omni signed the peace treaty originally Newland was handed over to the Clans, who inturn released it as a neutral city 2 months later. So yes, it is a beacon of peace and of all the factions working together. And it has also been utterly corrupted by the scenes you discribe, and the Warr mongers ((sorry couldn't resist that one :P )).