Let us have a Chance

[_____________Cloudeh]

Um, If we want to be bad, an evil player, how about GIVING us a chance to be one? hmm!

fools.

[___________Windchill]

I used to play another game where you could tell who the real bad guys were, as their names were flagged in red, they took stat-loss with every murder they committed, they weren't allowed to leace certain facets of the world, and generally they whined ALOT about how the rules weren't fair to them. Furthermore, when they brought their rants to the community boards they tended to taunt everyone who made any comment about their rant, and finally, when they realized they'd lost their argument, they began the name calling.

Since there seems to be no punishment--yet--for evil behavior in the game, then I suppose we have to live with the actions of the "evil" players. However, when/if they should ever be made to pay for their crimes, via rule changes/whatever, then their rants will become even more child-like. Then, they won't understand why their being made to live in a certain area, have their name flagged, or lose rights/abilities/whatever, and they will do nothing but complain about how unfair their being treated in a game where they were supposed to have fun.

So, if you want to role-play an evil character then by all means do so! But for God's sake do it...role-play it! Mindless killing, just for the sake of it, is NOT role-playing an evil character...it's just mindless killing. Saying that "I'm evil" without having any motivation behind your evilness is not role-playing. And if your motivation is that you like ruining everyone's fun, then you're not evil, you're childish.

[______________Gerinn]

Originally posted by Windchill
Since there seems to be no punishment--yet--for evil behavior in the game, then I suppose we have to live with the actions of the "evil" players. However, when/if they should ever be made to pay for their crimes, via rule changes/whatever, then their rants will become even more child-like. Then, they won't understand why their being made to live in a certain area, have their name flagged, or lose rights/abilities/whatever, and they will do nothing but complain about how unfair their being treated in a game where they were supposed to have fun.

No, we don't have to live with it. We need to piss and moan until they fix this crap. I'm all in favor of you attacking, say, Phillip Ross... I'm also in favor of Ross's superior abilities and defense technology reflecting 90% of your damage back and his elite-clad guards with QL300 Flashpoints alpha-striking you... enjoy reclaim, oh, and you're fired!

I suspect this wouldn't be hard to push. I don't think Funcom really wants this either, do they?

So, if you want to role-play an evil character then by all means do so! But for God's sake do it...role-play it! Mindless killing, just for the sake of it, is NOT role-playing an evil character...it's just mindless killing. Saying that "I'm evil" without having any motivation behind your evilness is not role-playing. And if your motivation is that you like ruining everyone's fun, then you're not evil, you're childish.

Absolutely correct. People who attempt to justify attacking GM NPCs in any MMOG by claiming they are roleplaying evil are liars.

I will repeat that:
PEOPLE WHO ATTEMPT TO JUSTIFY ATTACKING GM NPCS IN ANY MMOG BY CLAIMING THEY ARE ROLEPLAYING EVIL ARE LIARS.

You don't care a whit about roleplaying. Now this can be a touchy subject, because what one person thinks of as roleplaying isn't necessarily another's definition. Some think you should never break character in-game... I think that's a little dumb, but they say it's roleplaying and I can't exactly disagree. It's dumbasses like you who I can unequivocally say are NOT roleplaying.

Originally posted by Cloudeh
Um, If we want to be bad, an evil player, how about GIVING us a chance to be one? hmm!

fools.

Actually, you have the chance to be an evil player right now. Or at least a stupid player. You get to ruin my fun with your moronic childishness, and get story GMs who wanted to stage an interesting scene ticked enough to AOE nuke *me*, yes, and everyone else attempting to actually advance the story, just because you're too persistent a gnat to swat directly (though insta-retaliating alpha-striking guards is a good start, I think). With the exception of whatever perverse pleasure you get from ruining everyone's day AND failing miserably, nobody is having fun.

You want to have some REAL fun, roleplaying evil? Okay. First step, attack story NPC, whose guards promptly squish you into a fine paste. At reclaim, you discover your Omni/Clan citizenship is revoked (and now you're neutral, and can be jumped in PvP - woohoo!). You beat it the heck out of town and head to Newland, where you buy an Omni form and... WHAT THE HECK!? You can't use it! Oh my goodness, Omni-Pol has placed a lockdown on your DNA pattern and you are forbidden to rejoin them. Reverse this with the Clans. Gosh, this must be a misunderstanding, better head over to Rome and... HOLY COW! You just got smashed by the guards. Since when do they attack on sight? What was this they're shouting about "Criminals and traitors are worse than the Clans, <yourname>!"? That sucks. Oh well, let's join the Clans. There we are. Ooh, cool, a GM in Old Athen is organizing a group of people to... whatever, y'know, they're just blathering on and on and on... WTF is with that junk? Yeah, this random story NPC you've never heard of before deserves to die. You'll reflect and make up a reason later. Hee hee, your character is so evil!

DAMMIT, you're back at the reclaim. Oh, and you're banned from both sides now, forever. Your name is whispered throughout Rubi-Ka... you're famous! See, roleplaying evil is great! Wait, the whisperings are that you're a dangerous, unstable criminal and Omni-Pol and the Clans have managed to convince the ICC to invalidate your cell scan... gosh, you're mortal now. Guess you better sneak off into Stret West and... uh-oh! Boy, where did that Trader come from? Oh well, guess it's irrelevant, you're dead now.

Wow! Roleplaying a psycho really would be so much fun!

...also, "evil" != "crazy." Evil people work to degrade a system for their own benefit or to establish a new order with others like then designed for their benefit. Evil people are merciless in truth but often kind and seemingly paragons of virtue at first. When they finally show their cruel side, it's too late to stop them.

You will argue that there are crazy evil people. But the crazy evil people rarely get anywhere being totally bonkers. Hitler was probably evil AND nuts, but he didn't become the iron-fisted ruler of Nazi Germany and the cruel exterminator of political dissidents, the frail and weak, homosexuals, and Jews by going up to all the people of those groups and trying to punch them to death one by one. You want to be evil? Try offering to help that NPC defend his caravan, and promptly ignore that promise when he calls for help when the inevitable attack comes. Heck, go ahead and laugh at him. THAT'S evil. Being drawn to a green name like it's a red target symbol on the NPC's back is just stupid.

[_____________Cloudeh]

Did I say attack everything you ignorant *****?

I ONLY WANTED TO KILL KEAPA.

[MrBunny]

Originally posted by Gerinn

You want to be evil? Try offering to help that NPC defend his caravan, and promptly ignore that promise when he calls for help when the inevitable attack comes. Heck, go ahead and laugh at him. THAT'S evil. Being drawn to a green name like it's a red target symbol on the NPC's back is just stupid.

I guess then that just decides it. Cloudeh not only doesnt know how to role play an evil character. He's just down right retarded.
It's obvious Cloudeh can distinguish the difference between evil and insane. I mean, if this was Judge Judy, judge judy would see to it that Cloudeh was locked up in an insane asylum.

but then again we can't really blame poor Cloudeh.. I mean damn look at his signature. It's obvious english isnt his first language, so he is still probably grappling with nuances of the english language. Dont worry Cloudeh we understand. Hooked on phonics will one day work for you

[locomdenom]

Originally posted by Cloudeh
Did I say attack everything you ignorant *****?

I ONLY WANTED TO KILL KEAPA.

Why?

[______________Saruzi]

Lets stop the pointless bashing of Cloudeh's character, he said it was highly su****ous that person was a spy! He stated that so don't quote half the facts to try and make him look stupid. If I suspected a spy and I could tear the traitor down, I don't know which loyal OT empolyee wouldn't! Don't you people seem to have noticed that your pickings here are scant? You blame him for doing so much wrong, but he seems to have perfectly roleplayed a situation out. See a spy, kill a spy, not much more you can do to a spy in AO. Stop griping, the fact that you claim the evil excuse is worn out, is true, but on some occassions its perfectly true. Out of most of the people on the forums here, Cloudeh has constantly brought up the problem about the people who spoil this game, so why would he just become what he hates?

- Starter of a mini- Cloudeh fan club in his head.

[______________Gerinn]

Originally posted by Telgi
Lets stop the pointless bashing of Cloudeh's character, he said it was highly su****ous that person was a spy! He stated that so don't quote half the facts to try and make him look stupid. If I suspected a spy and I could tear the traitor down, I don't know which loyal OT empolyee wouldn't! Don't you people seem to have noticed that your pickings here are scant? You blame him for doing so much wrong, but he seems to have perfectly roleplayed a situation out. See a spy, kill a spy, not much more you can do to a spy in AO. Stop griping, the fact that you claim the evil excuse is worn out, is true, but on some occassions its perfectly true. Out of most of the people on the forums here, Cloudeh has constantly brought up the problem about the people who spoil this game, so why would he just become what he hates?

- Starter of a mini- Cloudeh fan club in his head.

OH MY GOD! *YOU'RE* A SPY!

Gentlemen, you know what we have to do.

[________nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by Ironheel


PS if you really want to find out what evil is pick up Call of Cthulu.

muahahahahahaha

[AkodoReign]

thats ok he lost his yalm maybe he'll quit now :P

[______________Saruzi]

Gernin, I dunno, you seem a bit bored. Do you know people who switch sides are usualy not 100% loyal, and one of ur characters you seem to state has switched sides to Clan from OT. I wouldn't trust you if I was Clan. If anything, you're the spy. Every post after that just seems to make no sense. if you're gonna reply, how about not just flmaing people? How about getting some evidence or a fact to base an arguement on instead of just mocking everyone. And who was the player who turned this into a flaming thread. Geez!

[______________Gerinn]

Originally posted by Telgi
Gernin, I dunno, you seem a bit bored. Do you know people who switch sides are usualy not 100% loyal, and one of ur characters you seem to state has switched sides to Clan from OT. I wouldn't trust you if I was Clan. If anything, you're the spy. Every post after that just seems to make no sense. if you're gonna reply, how about not just flmaing people? How about getting some evidence or a fact to base an arguement on instead of just mocking everyone. And who was the player who turned this into a flaming thread. Geez!

Try to remember that you're defending a person who wanted to whack a green story NPC, and wants to roleplay "evil" by killing anyone he wants.

Did he have a good reason? I doubt it, and he could have come up with one later, but let's just assume he did. He thought Kaepa was a spy. Do you expose a spy by whacking him upside the head? Probably not. I'd love to see some screenshots or logs of the conversation. The mounting su****ion as the conversation went on... was there a conversation? Somehow, I doubt it.

As to switching sides, yes, people who switch sides aren't usually 100% loyal. And they're usually not trusted. And, uh, that's part of the point of defection, isn't it? Of course my character could be an OT spy... she's not, but I can't very well prove that, can I? If I were a lifelong clanner, sure, I'd be su****ious as heck from an in-character standpoint. On the other hand, she hasn't opened fire on anybody in the past, or otherwise shown any signs of mental instability (other than wavering indecision over whether she's on the right side, with the weak conviction that she wasn't before). But that's apples and oranges to this thread, isn't it? We KNOW my character isn't loyal, and there are reasons for it (yours or mine, or anyone's, of course, and they needn't all be the same). But attacking NPCs on your own side, while claiming a sort of loyalty to the same side? That seems a little... fishy... doesn't it?

Regardless of the ad hominem, what about my "flaming?" Well, if you imply I treated Cloudeh harshly, you're correct, I did. When you say "I ONLY WANTED TO KILL KAEPA" and "Id rather kill one of them then stand around and listen to the crap they splurt out" you tend not to engender much sympathy. If Kaepa was a spy, or if Cloudeh suspected such, he could, y'know... more articulately explain this. Something like the following:

"I wish Funcom would stop having story NPCs say everything they want to say without any chance being given to us to distrust and expose them as suspected spies. I thought Kaepa was a subversive figure, or maybe a spy, and I attacked him because I had a su****ion that he needed to be silenced. But then he came back and slaughtered us. If FC is going to have events, they need to be more open to the possibility that the players aren't going to buy what the NPCs say. If we think the guy is a spy, we should have the chance to whack him."

Now THAT I might agree with. Probably not entirely, but Cloudeh would've had a real case here. I mean, there *is* a point to being su****ious. Probably not in this case, and DEFINITELY not when Phillip Ross himself is walking around ("He was a spy, I swear it!"), but all the same, I can see being a little paranoid. But there's a fine line between paranoia and psychopathic aggression. And I'm arguing Cloudeh is crossing that line, and is no longer really roleplaying. Hence, RP can't be provided as justification for whacking story NPCs. If you do, in fact, support killing 'em, go ahead and say it. Don't use the rather thin veil of "crazy mofo" roleplaying. Just laugh and be proud of your position as asshat.

As to the other posts not making sense, that's called HUMOR. "OMG YOU MUST BE A SPY" is not meant to be taken seriously. I like to think I don't use excessive capitalization except to highlight words in sentences (as, when I am speaking, I might accent a word). I'd comment on this, but that probably would be flaming.

If you think Cloudeh was justified in his reasoning, show the evidence he didn't. I don't know WHY he didn't, but he didn't, and the burden of proof lies upon his evidence (or the evidence of others who can demonstrate what he did). If his intent was to ferret out a spy, there should have been other ways. And if his point is that there WEREN'T other ways, well, there is a degree of truth to that. I doubt Kaepa would've changed his tune if someone accused him of being a subversive or a spy.

However, he comes across to me as an extremely bored thrill-kill fan who doesn't care about the story and would just as soon kill an NPC as engage them (his own words, not mine). If that wasn't his intent, he should correct himself.

Anyway, as far as loyalty goes, we can question everyone's motivations on Rubi-Ka. After all, a distressing number of people, OT employees and Clanner rebels alike, seem to be engaged zombie-like at the mission terminals, turning down perfectly good assignments in the pursuit of "lewtz" (strange that they imitate the leet calls, isn't it?) and some nebulous idea that combat experience somehow increases a set of invisible numbers that cause them to become stronger and more capable of using weaponry. It all seems very odd to me, and rather suspect...

[____________Keaorata]

Hmm ... Maybe theres a solution that would keep both sides of this argument happy?

If a character is needed alive to advance the story he should be made impossible to kill so that the story cant be confused by some over aggressive kid or even an actual roleplaying assassin...

However if there is room for someone to make a difference and the story could still be advanced if the important character stays alive or is killed then it should be possible to kill him/her...


Example:

Philip Ross is making a speech... "leetdood" trys to kill him for fun and to see what "uber" loot he has. *Splat* ... The bodyguards jump on him and hit him for 9999 damage "leetdood" is back at reclaim and learns his lesson.

Philip Ross is still making his speech despite the small disurbance ... An actual roleplayer comes along... an assassin who has actual reasons to kill Ross ... He tries and he too gets sent back to reclaim by the bodyguards without even damaging Ross. He realises that Ross cannot be killed at this time ... All is fair.

Ross survives without any hassle and the story is continued with no problems....

Next example:

An NPC called Bob is making a public appearance as some plotline. He may or may not be some kind of spy. This time however he can be killed. This gives assassins and "evil" roleplayers a chance. This char could still affect the storyline if he stays alive or is assassinated.

Obviously this wouldnt stop the people who just kill for the sake of killing but it would certainly help the roleplayers in some ways.

I dont see the problem with making certain characters immortal if its very important that they stay alive to see the event through. Even the assassin roleplayers after getting hit for 9999 damage could see it as a failed attempt and shouldnt have to complain about it....

[______________Gerinn]

The idea is good, but the switch would have to be toggled "on the fly." If Bob *can*, at some point, be attacked for su****ious activity, the guy controlling him needs to be able to make him invulnerable *until* a short while into the conversation. That way, anyone who runs up to him and hits Q right off the bat doesn't see anything (or gets instasmacked, depending on the situation)... but someone who hangs around and listens to the guy notices a slip-up, or the guy tells a blatant lie. Then, perhaps, there should be the chance to ferret the guy out and blast him. That seems about right.

[_____________Cloudeh]

Just you wait hehe, I posted a post before this stating I would kill him.


I did say I would, and I did, there you go.

[_____________Cloudeh]

Well here we go

1: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...ighlight=Keapa

Killing my brother whilst he was to put it "lagged" or "crashed"

2: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...ighlight=Keapa

And people question the TBA's ideas of attacking guards or should we say "GMS"

Keeeel them aaal! AAAL OF THEM!

I personaly have a REAL BIG ISSUE with Corporal Keapa.

3:http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...0&pagenumber=2


And if stratics was up you would see what I said in my picture.
Heh.

Shame how some people have to go make fun of me, call me names and generally make OTHER people think im this but hey, I dont care.

[______________Gerinn]

Okay, so, your point is, you really have a grudge against Kaepa? Care to elaborate? Other than "killing my brother while he was LD" (which I don't entirely understand from the links posted), what did he do? Kick your puppy? Need a little more info here, chief. You're definitely digging yourself out of the hole, but I'm not sure I'm quite getting the missing link here that explains your justification...

[___________Windchill]

First, while I'm willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt, even Cloudeh, I too believe more needs to be shown in order to justify such behavior.

Second, on this past Friday evening the citizens of Omni were given an update on the cyborg situation by Representative Ridgefield in the square of Omni HQ (on Rubi-2, anyway). Saying he spoke on behalf of Ross, this intermediary gave us an update--of sorts--and told us of Omni-Tek's plans on uncovering this newest threat. He further explained, during a Q&A session, that the recent incursion of malfunctioning slayerdroids and the following explosion in the Omni HQ district might be related. During this Q&A session several folks began getting su****ious of Ridgefield and started questioning his connections to Ross, Omni, and then wondered whether the man himself was a cyborg.

All of this, except for a few twits who kept asking him for an "anal probe" (which is what happens when kids play these games), was handled extremely well by Ridgefield and the citizens, most of whom seemed to be role-playing the situation very well. Their su****ions were raised and played out VERBALLY without anyone going to an extreme and attacking him...even when he gave out "dicey" replies. I suppose, if an assassin was in the mix, this could have gone another way. All-in-all we had a good time taking part in this interactive world, where events and people do transcend the box from which it came.

Last, and as a side note, thank heavens we play AO and not EQ...on the 18th of April they will be raising their monthly subscription rate to $50 a month. I expect we'll see a rise in our population around then...

Peace.

[_________Deaddreamer]

Originally posted by Windchill
Last, and as a side note, thank heavens we play AO and not EQ...on the 18th of April they will be raising their monthly subscription rate to $50 a month. I expect we'll see a rise in our population around then...

Peace.

$50 or $15? Either way, they are upping because of the failure of Legends.

By the by, I have never seen any of the plots with EQ, and rarely ever heard of them either... at least this is somewhat of an improvement.

However, killing an NPC character is along the same lines as I was talking to a buddy of mine, someone jumps in and smacks him, he goes to reclaim, and the whole dialogue takes a nose dive.

[____________ralliral]

$50 a month? Ive been working in the tech industry for a while, and I know first hand that when a company drastically, unexplainably, increase their charges to a rediculous amount....that means they are trying to get in as much money as possible (while knowingly losing customers) before they liquidate and dissolve. It is usually considered the desperate last ditch attempt to save a product and make up for losses. I forgot which corporation owns EQ off the top of my head, but Im sure if anything bad happens they will just lay the skeleton crew staff off, and sell the EQ product to another company. Depending on the company, the brave (or foolish) ex-workers who decided not to jump ship (Im always the idiot that stays too) will or will not receive severence (I have yet to get any). Ive been down that painfull road a bunch of times, and I wish their team good luck.

Of course, I am most likely wrong with my conclusions...and Im just wasting everyones time heh. This is just my weekly post, there were no other current subjects I wanted to comment on.