Neut's taking offense against Neut friendly clanners

[Nyadach]

Originally posted by Sumokan
Just for fyi a EO member was told by a GM that using both pads even by a neutral is a exploit.

More the fool he.

Originally posted by Sumokan
A Borlis Arena was proposed a year ago before Notum Wars hit. Since it was apparent that neutrals lagged behind PvP experence. Also the arena would have allowed low level neutrals get more aquanted with the pvp aspect of the game thereby enabling us to better protect towers. Many new comers don't even know about the pvp areas. Also as I said it was before the whompa system was in place to Last Ditch and Hope.

Even back on day one, we had MMD as a pvp area. And guess what? its over run by Omni and Clan. Now what would happen if we had an arena in Borealis? it would be overrun by Omni and Clan. As such there is no need for one. You want an arena overun with Omni and Clan go to Tir or Ent.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Exactly what point are you making? Your base is attacked more by Omnis? I was speaking about the whole neutral communty. Also the clan has attacked neutrals way before the Merc arrived in New Land. If you buy into the fact that they attacked you due to the mercs you are a bigger fool then they are.

The point I was making was that from the time your thugs took over Newland, attacks on local neutral towers, including our own where then massively more from Omni. If you don't believe me, as the FTA. That is the point I am making. You gave them the right to reign in neutral territory. And after the thugs came, the Clans who attacked all mentioned the thugs as a reason. Thereby the thugs are a major point in this, and the fool be who ignores that.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Since you seem to be directing this at me and EO let me clarify some points. The Lions Den lied about attacking our towers by mistake. They wanted towers and decided it was safer to attack a neutral guild instead of Omni. They never offered our towers back at all we asked for monatary compensation instead which they refused as well. The only compensation we could get from them is that they will help us attack a Omni tower. We waited for over a month for a apology and none came. I spoke to the Omni org leader of "The Forsaken" and was told they broke there peace treaty. I asked Lions Den if this was true and they replied "they are Omnis we don't have to respect treaties".

I then used all that information to attack Lions Dens. Now for a little information that you might not know. It was agreed that IR was going to get the tower spot if the raid was successful since ya all lost a tower spot by Omni pol (which by the way you took from Omnis in the 1st place) in exchange for some aid. You may ask Yargo about this. About moaning well I guess I should have used "Axis of Evil" instead of saying "scum sucking clanners" since one is moaing and the other is not. Get yer facts straight, at no time the clan agreed to apologize or make the matter right. When the Axis attacked ya and ya said they broke a treaty I believed ya at face value.

Actually we had a meeting to discuss the fact that a tower was going to be given to us via force. And the decission was rightly that we shouldnt accept it. It was wrong, and something we couldnt do...and we didnt do.

But you do forget something here, and that was it was you who asked me to negotiate for you with the Clans. And it was me who spent almost two weeks running back and forth with the messages of the greedy demands you yourself put to the Clans. The GA4 they accepted and got, the apologys, everything. At the start of that week I was against the Clans due to how they acted. On face value they were in the wrong, which actually they admitted. But how they were treated was the problem in this which went to fuel neutral hatred.

Originally posted by Sumokan
As far as grovling I really don't understand what I did to merit that. I contracted mercs that was ex Omni employees. Where ya not a ex Omni employee? I did not ask any Omni to help me in my raids.

Yes I am ex Omni....as are so many others. But I am open with that and do not hide it. The thugs you hired don't hide it either. They sadly still wear the OT logo. We do not, and do not wish to either.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Attacked a sided tower 1st............................IR

I can not say if the tower was the 1st or not, but it did cause alot of actions to happen due to it. Alot of the rules that govern the IR came about through debate and through what had happened. And such was due to that. That happened very quickly and as such many didnt know, but what came of it was a set of laws such as the "shall not take a tower through hostile means", and the "defence only" rules. An organisation is the sum of its parts, and what rules it makes come from them. But rules can only be formed through the events of what happens, and as such this was quiet litterally a defining moment for the IR when so many issues came to be formed into rules.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Took over a guild w/o elections..........................IR

Oddly enough, there was never an election in IR for president until I became leader. That is a fact which many ignore. Yes I came to the position of president via not being elected. But then again so had all the others. But those who followed were elected. And yet again this came through change.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Allowed a member to publically KOS a entire neut org............IR

If you are refering to myself, then its actually directed towards you and not EO. Yes EO takes the flak sometimes but thats more due to them being in the contract for the thugs. Nothing more. Our arguing is just that. Between you and me. Nothing to do with IR and EO at all.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Has officers who funded and backed the mercs......................IR

Yes we have people who backed the mercs. As a matter of fact we still have members who back the mercs. But I am not stopping them expressing there views. They are free to speak. Just as I am free to speek they are. We are all members of the same organisation. We are all citizens of Rubi-ka. That doesnt mean what I or anyone else says covers everyone does it.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Overthrow the New land Govt.............................................. ...IR

Last time I checked the Newland Council was still there. I haven't overthrown a government as far as I can tell. Have I mentioned that they should listen to the populace, and the majority yes. Have I also said that if they don't listen to the majority they should be removed. Also yes. But I havent taken arms against them. Nor have I tried to remove them by force. As always, what I have said is exactly that...what I have said and meant as something which can be worked from for a goal.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Willing to leave New Land unprotected to preserve his neutral
status..........................IR

If that means having a guard which is capable of shooting someone who attacks a neutral citizen or neutral property then Yes. If like you I would prefer to have Newland guarded by a guard who will either ignore a neutral being shot at, or actually assist the attacker then yes, I am wanting to allow these people to be stopped.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Does not beleive in able to attack 1st.........................IR

I didn't at the time due to the fact there was no need for a neutral to attack first. We didn't have a tower. We didn't own land other than Newland City itself. So at that time we had no need too. But situations can change, and now there is no other solution than to have bullets going all ways. How Rubi-ka has become a much more dangerous place.

Originally posted by Sumokan
Well damn Nyadach looking at that you are the best friend Clan can have. I mean not too many people can spit at ya, walk on ya, and call ya a fence sitter and ya remain "lets be friends" attitude. I salute you for being a prime example of Uncle Tom or in this case Uncle Funcom. If ya want to call me a Omni in neut clothing so be it. But I rather be called that then be known as a coward willing to sell out to clan all in the name of so called. phoney peace.

The differance is I havent sold out to anyone. I have, and still do use force when necessary. I do not beleive that wasting anyones life be that Omni, Clan or Neutral is a good thing...even if they can reclaim. More can be accomplished through diplomatic means and through a good case of sitting down and having a beer than through mindless slaughter over a tower or in a street. You seem to worship money, death and destruction over anything else. And I pity you for that. There is more out there than that and it is something which sadly you are missing.

p.s. and yeah, I do enjoy these rants...way too much unfortunatly hehe.

[_______________Binne]

I think most of the debate in this thread is coming from a misunderstanding. A Neutral player is not on a side in the way that Clans and Omni-Tek players are. The only thing you know about a Neutral for certain, is that they have not sided with the Clans or with Omni-Tek.

An individual Neutral may choose to defend all other Neutrals, because they believe in freedom of choice. A different individual Neutral might be on their own side, motivated purely by self-interest, trying to play everyone else against each other.

An individual Neutral might be sympathetic to one side of the cause, but not agree with them in principle enough to commit to that side. (Maybe you appreciate the technology that Omni-Tek brings to the Rubi-Ka, but you do not accept the way the corporation treats employees.)

My point, is: Neutrals are different from Clans and Omni-Tek in one very important way. Each individual Neutral has their own custom definiton of what "side" they are on. This is the essential difference. One Clan member owes a debt of loyalty to another, even if on a personal level they dislike one another. The same is true of two Omni-Tek employees. The same is not true of two Neutrals.

[Aazamon]

Originally posted by Sumokan
Greetings,

To Pyromanche:
I really only have the strength to engage one person like Nyadach so I do not wish to engage a Prima Donna as yerself. However if ya want to start a argument by stating "Nobody stoping you" then get prepared to enter the big boy forum. The main reason I was opposed to yer appointment is thus.

1. You had a hard line vs clan when in EO but since it did not give you the popular points you crave and desire in the spot lite you changed your mind.
2. Since these actions are either a person who loves the spot lite or somebody with severe bipolor disorder I thought it best somebody more level headed would represent neutrals. I would even agree to somebody like Yargo.
3. You said that "EO made me" blah blah, tell me did EO force you to cough up cash for the mercs? Did EO force ya place little towers in New Land stating "Die Clanners" and "Clan Scum"? Did you not vote to declare war on all clan after our last tower was taken?
4. Did you not state to me that Healing Hands and others was cowards fer not helping us?
5. Did you not kick out peeps in EO who did not agree with ya ways?
6. Did ya not ruin a possible merge with the Circle G?. Glar and I spoke for several hours on this. It would have been agreed to get rid of the mercs due to under a new guild funding would be cut off and hostilties would cease since it would be a fresh start. But you said no because it would have made ya step down for 3 Months while Glar was to be the leader. The next 3 monthes would have been yers but since ya did not wish to step down from the lime light and your pride did not allow it.
7. And lastly I do not trust a person who presumes themselves to be a goddess.

All this made me realize yer NOT suitable fer the Merc removal. You will remove the mercs at any cost without ensuring the security of New Land just to further your rock star lime light roll. Even that dog Nyadach would not consent to that. If you have consented to step down for 3 monthes the mercs would have been on the way out. Again neutrals are shades of everything even those who do not want to include others as well as yerself who imho are hypocrites.

Remember that post from Asterick about big frogs in small ponds?That was directed at ya and Nyadach
Remember that post from Permafrost about traitors? That was directed at ya and Nyadach.

Btw next time ya post and stick yer noise where it don't belong remember it can bitten off and before ya start posting vs me young lady ya better be prepared to roll up yer sleeves cause its gonna get DIRTY...........

Sincerely, Sumokan of Elite Operations

P.S.
If ya want to get into arguments like myself and Nyadach who I consider the only person worthy of that privlage then be prepared to muck it up otherwise stay out of the PvP (forum) arena.

I dear hope ya don't log out crying and sobbing like ya use to do in EO when somebody did not agree with ya or told ya was screwed up. But like ya said yer are stronger and better organized now and can't be pushed around.

Sumokan you have fallen far. I once respected you even though we had different opinions on many matters. You where someone who could debate an issue on the issue without making it personal. You have lost that and I can no longer engage you in any debate or cooperate on any issue unless you appologize to Pyromanche and the community for your behavior. Nothing in what Pyromanche said has warrented this attack.

1. Your attack on Pyromanche's change of heart towards Clan citizens was covered by Pyromanche when she openly addmitted she could no longer openly hate an entire faction without reason.

2. Your attack on Pyromanche's Mental condition by saying she may have a mental ilness shows your incredible heartlessness and ignorance. First off what would you do IF she in fact (( the player behind the character)) had Bipolar disorder? What would that mean? Do you know that people with Bipolar disorder are very functional and reasonable and that Bipolar disorder is treatable? What are you trying to prove by using this as an attack? Secondly about declaring that Pyromanche is a prima donna why? She did not even volunteer to be the representative for the NGI, she was selected by Xnemth and accepted the appointment.

3. Pyromanche has been clear that early in her career she was a loyal EO member and supported the mercenaries. She also stated that before she had a change of heart she viewed all Clans as an enemy.

4. No comment as I have no information.

5. No comment as I have no information.

6. Your point about Pyromanche not wanting to step down is so incredibly wrong and an out right false that you either must know nothing of what your talking about or trying to make up lies about Pyromanche for some reason to attack her personally. Pyromanche was leader of Elite Operations for 3.5 months, the entire term of her elected office. She stepped down at the end of this term voluntarily. Also is it not possible that there are other reasons that Pyromanche would be against merging with Circle G? Even now that she is President of The Union she did not seek that out. Fikksit was president and decided to go into prolonged Stasis (( leave AO for a while)) and gave her leadership. Pyromanche was not very enthusiastic about this and has never been one to abuse this position.

7. I have never seen or heard Pyromanche claim to "be a goddess" or act as if she was one. I have however witnessed her be extremely kind and helpful to young neutrals, in The Union and not in The Union. I have seen her be selfless in the extreme.

Concerning your threat that if Pyromanche decides to respond with an opinion on anything you write you will "get DIRTY" is the most cowardice and pathetic attempt to silence your opposition I have ever seen. Only those who lack all wit or reason attack thier opponents personallity and threaten them when engaging in a discussion or arguement over an issue. For this you have lost my trust, respect, and the friendship we once had. I am severly disgusted at your behavior. This is the last time I will respond to anything you say unless its a full appology. These are my personal views of what is going on here, I do not extend these feelings beyond Sumokan, so I will continue to speak to any member of Elite Operations should they be able to remain civil and not start mud slinging.

[Tezlirah]

Just choose a side Sumo and get on with it, this is getting rather tiring to continually see you verbally assault people with your words. To simple fact is, if you feel the need to insult others, you just must not feel very good about yourself. Maybe Omni-Tek or the Clan's could help ya with that...

General Kalithyzia
Nanomage Liberation Front

[Kattiedid]

Hello from the Viewing Stands....

Well to Start,.... I'm not gonna Pick apart Statements nor am I going to quote anyone, Not that I Can't, I Choose not to. most that know Me, know I can have a Sharp tounge and I feel this is Not needed nor Warrented here. I Do wish to express as a Former member of Not Only EO but CG also, that I saw then, as well as now, only a Couple people that did not represent what the 2 Guilds represented. So to tear a Guild apart based on that, is Wrong... meaning, A couple representitives (and not always the same IMO) should Not be the stamp, that those Org's get.

Way Back then , (seems years sometimes) It seemed that every one I Talked to was pro-protect neutral intrests, even omni and clan I teamed With back then. Just looking back now, Not sure everyone was the same opinion what "pro-protect neutral intrests" really was. So I can't and won't say anything about that.

As I have read this thread (and Honestly only a Couple others) I See Old friends becoming Enemies and I hope that this war will not Continue to cause more people that Can't look past sides to turn On each other. I have seen Old friends return to Rubi-ka , and ask WHAT HAPPENED? to which I Can't really answer.

I'm Presently in a Guild of some Very Individual but Great people, and the people in this Guild are a Mixture of all different Understandings Of Neutrality, Some lean, some don't, and some just don't get involved. But regardless of who they are and who I am , Neutrality is Not defined by anyone of us.

I see friends fighting friends, and truely feel torn....

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by ShadowLander
But how can the rest of u call urselfs peaceloving poeple...

I think that this attitude is at the heart of just about all the misconceptions re. neutrals and neutrality that I've seen expressed.

Here's the secret. Ready? Here it comes...

Just because you're neutral doesn't necessarily mean that you're peace loving. What it does mean is that, for whatever reason, you have decided not to join either Omni Tek or the Clans. That's it. That's all it means, that you haven't adopted either side's idealogical standpoint.

The flipside of this is that just because I haven't joined your enemy, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm not at war with you for my own personal reasons. For all you know, I may be at war with them too. However, because I'm not bound up in the ideology that drives this conflict, I have no vested interest in perpetuating the conflict for its own sake. In other words, if you settle your grievances with me, I'll cease being your enemy. If friendly relations continue for long enough that they become the norm, I'll eventually turn from enemy to friend.

Some neutrals are pacifists, of course. Some are simply disinterested in the ideology behind the conflict. Some, including myself, have decided that neither side is right and that neither side can deliver a lasting peace. I'm sure that there are plenty of other reasons out there, probably as many as there are neutrals.

But, we're not all pacifists.

Cheers,

Soyuz.

[Aazamon]

Originally posted by Sumokan
Greetings,

Posted by Kattiedid:
I see friends fighting friends, and truely feel torn....

Well said Kate, since I value your friendship and care for you dearly I will cease any verbal attacks on any neutral from here on out as not to cause you any more inner conflict. *Sumo Bows*

Sincerely, Sumokan of Elite Operations

Thank you Sumokan. I wouldn't dream of asking you to stop stating your opinions on any matter as long as you continue to keep to the subject and the issues. I was simply disturbed at the personal nature of your comments and feel they have no place in our community. I look forward to building the bridges that may have been damaged in our community through some rash words on many sides. As I've said at the many meetings I have attended. Let us keep the debates to the issues and not go after the people behind the ideas. No one should fear to oppose your ideas, that is how Omni-Tek and the Millitant Clans opperate and why we are not them. Let us keep our heads and remember in the end of the day we must all live together and if we learn to work together, even with some small compromises, we shall prosper. But if we let personal grievances hurt our community by sidelining other develpments we are being selfish and petty. I urge everyone, including myself, to remain on track and focused in our often heated debates.

For any non neutral here, you will notice that the neutral community is not a single entity, more like Soyuz said, we are a conglomerate of those who simply do not belong the the Clans or Omni-Tek.

[Tyranadon]

(OOC) I would like to say that the members of Elite Operations do not approve of Sumokan's attack on Pyromanches character. Nonetheless we share the blame because he is part of our oraganization. Like Nyadac said not everyone in an Organization shares the same beliefs. We seem to have a few members that are more outspoken than members of other organizations. On behalf of Elite Operations we apologize for the slanderous attack upon your person. We try to support our members and their views but in the heat of the moment people become over zealous in thier feelings and actions; whether the organization as a minority or a whole supports these actions it reflects upon the entire organization. Sumokan from what I understand, has always been outspoken and very strong in his believes. He stepped over the line this time in his attack upon Pyromanches person but I do not feel that it was his intent to be hurtful, only brash in his declaration that you must be very well armed and have a thick hide before stepping in the verbal arena with him.

Much of the hiring of the Mercs and the history of those events predate many of the members currently in Elite Operations. However much of the community looks down upon those of us that have inherited this lineage. Whether we support the Mercs in Newland or the Newland Guard Intiative is not an issue. Elite Operations faces the disdain of our fellow Nuetral brethern over issues that we had no control over. Posts like Sumokans only fuel the flames. I ask you to remember this in the future when you think and talk about Elite Operations.

I think there is too much that is lost in history for this debate over Elite Operations contracting the Mercs in Newland for it to ever be resolved. It is like a diamond in that each facet has a side and there are too many sides to distinguish. Each side is a part is but a part of the whole. There are truths that are reflected in what everyone has to say on the matter but it is too meshed with personal thoughts and memories to ever be sorted out.

Lets stop this bickering and hurting each others feelings and deal with matters as they are at the present.

Sincerely,

Tyranadon

[Pyromanche]

Tyranadon,

I appreciate your apology in the spirit in which it was intended. I know your heart is in the best place. I do feel however that I must address the lies that Sumokan spoke here in order to clear up such untrue accusations being thrown at me.

1. You had a hard line vs clan when in EO but since it did not give you the popular points you crave and desire in the spot lite you changed your mind.

I have not taken on any specifically sympathetic clan policy or omni policy for that matter. This thread had nothing to do with me or my organization.

2. Since these actions are either a person who loves the spot lite or somebody with severe bipolor disorder I thought it best somebody more level headed would represent neutrals. I would even agree to somebody like Yargo.

Defaming my character by accusing me of mental illness shows how little you know about me. Since you obviously have no idea what your talking about, how can the rest of us.

3. You said that "EO made me" blah blah, tell me did EO force you to cough up cash for the mercs? Did EO force ya place little towers in New Land stating "Die Clanners" and "Clan Scum"? Did you not vote to declare war on all clan after our last tower was taken?

I did not "cough up" any cash for the mercs except for what was taken from my bank by taxes. I was only an applicant at the time the mercs were voted on by the guild, so I was not able to vote. I like the rest of EO did this based on what YOU told us about your "diplomatic meetings" with Clan leaders. Your inablitlity to tell the complete truth shows that you never really told us the truth. And yes, I did willingly help EO declare war after our last tower was taken by 7 clan guilds. I never denied it. I even have the screen shots to prove it.

4. Did you not state to me that Healing Hands and others was cowards fer not helping us?

I did at the time not totally understand why HH and other guilds turned their backs on us when asked for help. I spoke to Linaa and Billybob and learned from them why. I also after assuming leadership met with the rest of the Neutral Guild leaders, I learned why they chose not to help EO. I will not go into why, I think you know.

5. Did you not kick out peeps in EO who did not agree with ya ways?

I never kicked anyone out of EO for that reason. I kicked a couple people out of EA for behaving in ways that were outside the ethics of the guild. Jereziah and Ladykali were both involved in those decisions, I did not make them alone.

6. Did ya not ruin a possible merge with the Circle G?. Glar and I spoke for several hours on this. It would have been agreed to get rid of the mercs due to under a new guild funding would be cut off and hostilties would cease since it would be a fresh start. But you said no because it would have made ya step down for 3 Months while Glar was to be the leader. The next 3 monthes would have been yers but since ya did not wish to step down from the lime light and your pride did not allow it.

This merger was voted down by CG and CG did not want to merge. It had nothing to do with me in the least. But.. you tried to sell EO out from day one of leaving office as President. CG, IR, WB..

7. And lastly I do not trust a person who presumes themselves to be a goddess.

I do not make any presumption. I was given the title of "Goddess" by those around me, fellow neutrals, my own guild. I do not care if you do not trust me, it goes both ways.

Remember that post from Asterick about big frogs in small ponds?

Asterk left EO because of YOU. This was directed at you Sumo, not me or Nyadach.

Btw next time ya post and stick yer noise where it don't belong remember it can bitten off and before ya start posting vs me young lady ya better be prepared to roll up yer sleeves cause its gonna get DIRTY...........

Do not ever tell me where or when to speak.... I do not answer
to you.

PS... as far as the org descrition goes... that was an accident and anyone who was active in the guild at that time will tell you that it was. We all agreed to leave it as it was since it focused on our bringing in the Mercs and the reason why. Thank me not ridicule me for giving your Judge Dred purpose.

[Tezlirah]

/me looks at Pyromanche and notices she still has a nose.....

General Kalithyzia
Nanomage Liberation Front

[_______________Binne]

Makes a quick hand motion and says to Pyro, "Got your nose!"

[Jereziah]

Originally posted by Pyromanche
Asterk left EO because of YOU. This was directed at you Sumo, not me or Nyadach.

I believe Sumokan was not even on planet when Asterik got tired of the soap opera and left. The only reasons I heard expressed pointed at you to be blamed, Pyromanche.

I for one miss him. He was a hard working, honest man, so different from you. Many times more welcome as a friend to me than you ever were.

/J

[Tezlirah]

I think it's fortunate for Pyromanche then Jereziah, that most don't hold your opinion. From what I see, you and Sumokan are in a small minority. Pyromanche is a much loved part of the city I spend my time in.
The simple fact is, if we can't work within our own community to get past the finger-pointing and name calling, nothing will ever change.

General Kalithyzia
The Nanomage Liberation Front

[Cz]

Originally posted by Tyranadon
Lets stop this bickering and hurting each others feelings

Great idea. Please be nice folks.

[Slicse]

die thread die

[loca]

Originally posted by Stindy
~Neutrals Must Die!......

i can help u die)

[___________Blackhole]

I take no offense personally for what you said about OMNITEK or it's employees.What i DO take offense at is your inability to use capital letters at the beginning of a sentence.The misuse of grammar on your part is just your lack of education in this area.As an OMNITEK employee you would be educated at no cost to you.So just switch sides long enough for english101 to sink in!!!

OMNIPOL protects!!!

[Jajangmyun]

Originally posted by Slicse
die thread die

((ditto...))