'Buffs' and prices. Totally wrong.

[kedo]

I'm sure this is discussed in the forums before, but I write a new thread anyway

Here is a in game experience from me today:

I had just found a mission that gave a good reward, and it was a 70% difficulty mission, I was going to solo it - And that is hard for a lvl106 Opifex Agent (With Sanoo, Premium stigma, ~3300AC)
I often do missions like these, and normally - I can't do them with self-buffs only. So my normal routine then is to go to 20k or omni ent BB and ask for Essence from a high lvl enforcer, and SG or VS from a MA.

Then I asked a lvl110 (i think) Enforcer
Me: "Hello. May I have Essence from you?"
Him: "yea-- essence of titan is 25k friend )"
Me: "Sure."

Then I waited for like two minutes, I thought he was busy or something. But he was just standing there.

Me: "Are you going to cast the Essence, or not? =)"
Him: "you gonna pay or not? "

Then I opened the trade-box with him, placed in 25000 - And waited for him to cast it. But he didn't.

So I just left him, and found another to give me Essence - And this person didn't ASK for money. I tipped him 20k, and was happy about that.

This is just one of my many experiences that people are charging to 'buff'. How hard is it really to execute a Nano Program on another ppl? I think it's insane that people are paying 350k for a 132 wrangel. 350k is a LOT for most ppls that don't have characters lvl70+, or good friends. I always tip, and I have money to tip. But think on the lowbies that have to pay lots of cash to other ppl's so they can wear better Armor and Guns. And as the game are now, you NEED to be over-equipped to kill those mobs with tons of more HP for their level. You can do pretty well if you group a lot - BUT - Funcom claims this game can be 'soloed' all the way from 1-200, and I don't see how this could be done without 'buffs' and help from others. Who can program your implants if you're an Atrox Enforcer? Who can buff you better Essence and IC so you can wear better armor? Who can wrangle you so you can wear a weapon that you can use to kill those mobs with TONS of HP? Okay..this was a little out of topic - back to the 'buff' prices heh

What my point is, is that you don't owe someone that buffs you. It's just a friendly help from my view. If you're new to the game and don't have a lot of cash - I'm sure you're not tipping for someone to buff you. And that's how it should be.
Where is the free help? Noone wants to help a newbie with snipers bliss without charging him 10k+ for it? The game has becomed like this - People have made it be like this.

Me myself think it's OK that people make money from buffs. But to put a price on a buff is stupid. Like on the shopping channels, I rarely buy a buff for those who is asking money for it. I'm getting it from those who write that they just buffs (without naming price), or are buffing - tips welcome. I always tip myself.

The Money balance in this game is created by PPL's. (and E-Bay)
PPL's: Don't put prices on buffs!!!
I know this post isn't gonna change a thing in-game. But I just want to share my opinion about this.

( Sorry for the long post and all the typos )

[____________Meskulan]

I'm an enforcer myself. I cast cyclops for free or I will accept tips, and I cast titan for tips only, mabye for free sometimes. The reason is that I need masteries running in order to cast titan, and it takes about 75% of my nano pool to cast it, which needs to be replished. You need to realize that people may be busy at the moment you ask them and 90% of the time you ask someone for a buff, it IS an inconvience for them, and you should tip.

I always tip well BTW.

[Rubirango]

I always get spammed for titan at tir grid... I usually buff people for free except pvp twinks (fresmen/rookie traders, enfs, agents etc level 10-30).
Thing that REALLY REALLY REALLY pisses me off is when i'm at mission terminals in my yalm and people ask me for essence then.
When I'm in my yalm I'm not buffing people and would rather be left alone especially when at mission terms.

[kedo]

Meskulan; I realize that many people are busy and hate to be asked for buffs - That includes me too. I don't exactely look /shout after people who's running to get a buff. I look for people in Omni ent BB. The people that stands there are mostly either giving buffs, waiting for buffs, assembling implants, trading or waiting for others. So I don't feel like I am annoying when I go to BB to ask for buffs.

Anyway, how hard is it to just say "No." if you're busy?

And I always tip well BTW too.

Bebop; I totally agree with you that it's really annoying when people comes to you at mission terminals while in yalm.

To make it more clear, when I asked that guy from a essence (didn't say I was asking for titan either - just a essence, couse I needed HP for the mission) He was standing in the middle between the adv. and gen. store in 20k and looked for a team - So I don't think he was that busy.

Thanks for the response ppl's

[Corinthian]

Funcom claims this game can be 'soloed' all the way from 1-200, and I don't see how this could be done without 'buffs' and help from others.

I have never seen anywhere that they have said anything about how fast you should be able to get levels while soloing - only that it is possible. I noticed that you took a 70% mission... Maybe if you turn that lever down a couple of notches you can do without external help

ok, ok the subject is still off topic...

[_____________Paldorr]

I have several characters that can buff - Enforcer, MA, Trader. I'm convinced all buffs (except group buffs) should be self only, so you can't buy one from me. You also can't get one any other way from me. I don't bother with group buffs because I only play solo.

If you really want buffs and can't self-cast them, then be glad some people are selling them. Personally I think it's a bad thing but then that's just my opinion.

[______________Xenlee]

personally i think another aspect here could be the price the person had to pay to get that nano program in the first place, Those huge wrangles people pay big money for cost the trader over a million creds to get in the first place. While i agree that paying shouldnt be mandatory i completly understand why some people charge for a buff. Plus i think the prices should come down some, afterall if the buff cost the person 1mil creds to get and now he can use it whenever he chooses its not right IMO to charge someone else 350k for a 1 time buff.... but thats just my 2 creds

[kedo]

Originally posted by LCreek

I have never seen anywhere that they have said anything about how fast you should be able to get levels while soloing - only that it is possible. I noticed that you took a 70% mission... Maybe if you turn that lever down a couple of notches you can do without external help

ok, ok the subject is still off topic...

Yes..off topic, but interesting.
Fact is that even 50% missions are HARD for me without any outside-buffs. This should probably go in the Agent section...but I can't - that's right - I don't have a chance to solo a 50% mission without my heal-pet. And why should a Agent use a MP pet? We aren't MP's are we? Okay, I can take out a green one solo - but if it's two green ones in mission (there always are) ...I'm dead. If I had just used this game as a single-player game, how should I get my Premium Stigma then? I would probably be stuck with a QL100-110 rifle then. If you read some in the Agent forums, you'll see that rifles suck. (Not Ranee, but is slow as hell and have only 5shots)

Okay funcom, maybe it's possible to get to lvl200 (as a agent) by single-playing. By killing Millions of leets maybe? 1xp/kill!!

As a note: I play this game as a MMORPG, not a single-player game. These are just my opinions, no offence to anyone.

Anyway...Ignore this reply - Out of topic.

[kedo]

If you really want buffs and can't self-cast them, then be glad some people are selling them. Personally I think it's a bad thing but then that's just my opinion.

Paldorr:

Yes, I am glad that someone are 'selling' them. But DEMANDING money for buffs are just stupid. Of course people who are advertising buffing for tips do it for money - I only mean that they should think about inexperienced players with little cash that can't pay that much. So, buffing for tips - I think is ok. Buffing for a price that is set by the ppl who is buffing, is in my opinion stupid.

When I was new to this game and had played for 2 weeks, I had like 20k. I felt rich then. Now ppl's are asking more than that for running a single nano-formula on you. Think of that - 2 RL weeks to get 20k in a video-game.

Meaning of this thread I want ppl's to buff all for free and not accept cash heh, it's in thought of others (Newbies, not-newbies-but-with-little-cash, etc.) .

personally i think another aspect here could be the price the person had to pay to get that nano program in the first place, Those huge wrangles people pay big money for cost the trader over a million creds to get in the first place. While i agree that paying shouldnt be mandatory i completly understand why some people charge for a buff. Plus i think the prices should come down some, afterall if the buff cost the person 1mil creds to get and now he can use it whenever he chooses its not right IMO to charge someone else 350k for a 1 time buff.... but thats just my 2 creds

Xenlee

I don't think many traders buy their QL100+ crystals from shop. Most ppl's (all kind of professions too) Get their high lvl crystals from missions. I don't even know if you can find the 100+ wrangles in superior shops (are there better shops than sup.?)

Good to see someone think wrangles is too expensive. Even at lvl100, 350k is a lot of cash (well - for me). But it's just human nature - ppl's in this game is it that decide the marketing price - because people (note: NOT all) are willing to pay these insane prices. And I don't like it.

[Servivious]

Originally posted by Xenlee
Those huge wrangles people pay big money for cost the trader over a million creds to get in the first place.

Ok - I'm not disputing this - I've never played a trader to that lvl, but how does it cost over 1mil to upload a nano? I assume its mission only, and relatively rare so you do need to go looking for it but then most of the higher level buffs require some hunting - anything over ql120 does.. The IP costs are high I'm sure - but traders up the IP because they want the nano, not because they have no other choice. Wheres the cost?

The other thing that I'm not sure about is the paid buff / tipped buff. For example - an NTs HE buff is rarely charged for, but high wrangles are almost always charged. Why is it that some prof / buff need to be charged for and others dont? I've never undertstood that - and I'm very rarely tipped for HE, and people tend to be rude about asking for it.

[FireC]

Originally posted by cl1nt0n
Yes, I am glad that someone are 'selling' them. But DEMANDING money for buffs are just stupid. Of course people who are advertising buffing for tips do it for money - I only mean that they should think about inexperienced players with little cash that can't pay that much. So, buffing for tips - I think is ok. Buffing for a price that is set by the ppl who is buffing, is in my opinion stupid.

Ok, yes I think people sometimes charge too much but what you just said really ticks me off. Do you realize how long it might take to get hold of some specific high level buff, how many times you get asked for that buff and how many people think that as you got one you should buff them for free just like that. Now I've always been against some outrageous trader prices but to say you should not ask money for your time and trouble?

Yes my MP does not charge low level characters for masteries but how is one supposed to know who is inexperienced and who is not? I think having some sort of set prices can be a good thing as well, I mean your 10k means nothing to high level character but you yourself can always say "no thank you" and go find someone else if the price is not good enough for you - I belive that is called economy.

[kedo]

High level buffs (lvl120+ maybe) and the lower levels, I realize there is a difference how much you 'tip' for it.

Do you realize how long it might take to get hold of some specific high level buff, how many times you get asked for that buff and how many people think that as you got one you should buff them for free just like that.

Peekaboo, I believe you got that Nano crystal so you could use it yourselves. I don't think you would stand at BB to /shout that you buffed it for free to others. But if you standed there of some reason, and a PPL sended you a tell: "Hi, can you buff me with <name of buff>?", would you telled him that you would do it for a particular price? or would you just buffed him? Point is, if that buff is hard to get, he would probably tip you good anyway. At least I would.

Lets say he don't tip; You have nothing to loose anyway (well maybe a x amount of nanopool and 30seconds) But you have helped the guy. I'm sure you're gonna be tipped for the buff sooner or later anyway.

It's really not that hard to get hold of a high lvl nano. Camp mission terminals, use AOMD to find the specific nano to find it faster, Find some friends to form a team or go to 20k and make a group and finish the mission. This is how I do it when I want some high QL nano/weapon/armor.

I think having some sort of set prices can be a good thing as well, I mean your 10k means nothing to high level character but you yourself can always say "no thank you" and go find someone else if the price is not good enough for you - I belive that is called economy.

Good point there. This is the game economy - I'm sharing my opinions on it in this forum, and I don't like it.
Agree or disagree with me, I don't care.

Good feedback PPL's , Nice to read others opinions too.

[FireC]

Originally posted by cl1nt0n

Peekaboo, I believe you got that Nano crystal so you could use it yourselves. I don't think you would stand at BB to /shout that you buffed it for free to others. But if you standed there of some reason, and a PPL sended you a tell: "Hi, can you buff me with <name of buff>?", would you telled him that you would do it for a particular price? or would you just buffed him? Point is, if that buff is hard to get, he would probably tip you good anyway. At least I would.

Mmmm. No? Traders don't use most of their most wanted buffs on them selves, they are strictly for business so they also have a set (and mostly accepted price).

Masteries as buffs are not that hard to find and mostly I buff people asking me for buffs, but sometimes it justs gets too much. Maybe I should stay away from crowded areas and stop wearing my MP weapons/shields and nelebs cloak, or possiby stay in my yalm all the time? You have no idea how many requests one can get in a short amount of time and how annoiying it is when you are expected to buff people just cause you can do that buff..

Lets say he don't tip; You have nothing to loose anyway (well maybe a x amount of nanopool and 30seconds) But you have helped the guy. I'm sure you're gonna be tipped for the buff sooner or later anyway.

It's really not that hard to get hold of a high lvl nano. Camp mission terminals, use AOMD to find the specific nano to find it faster, Find some friends to form a team or go to 20k and make a group and finish the mission. This is how I do it when I want some high QL nano/weapon/armor.

It is not about the money - for me at least. I could never make as much money with buffing as I can make through missions. It's about how people act when they ask for buffs and how little respect they show to the people buffing. Yes it's nice to help but damn if I'm going to help everyone and their goldfish when ever I get a tell. Higher level people get tells all over the place for buffs, from people they have never even met or heard of and I don't want that happeníng to me as well (and yes it has happened already). I have been treated as the wonderous implant machine who should do them "as I can" and I sure as anything am not a buffing machine either.

Someone asks for a tip/ or has a set price - you choose whether to pay or not. That's how simple it is.

[Autocratt]

I'm new to AO but I managed in a few weeks to get a Trader to lvl 60. Guild needed another Wrangler so I made some calculations. Needed a set of 3 QL 90 implants for Psy Mod and T&S, 3 new skill drains, and then finally the wrangle. It cost me and the guild altogether over $1.3M to get to this point (all from stores).

Mind you the Skill Wrangler (Advanced) itself was almost $400K but most Traders have no way of casting it without the latest Divest/Plunder.

And it is a pain for me to cast it. Need to buff general nanos, then 5 skill drains in a row before I can cast the wrangle. 1,000 nano points and minimum of 5 minutes.

So I bought the nanos. The wrangle was so high above me it would have been impossible for me to mission for it. Haven't charged anyone yet for a Wrangle but with only 15K left in the bank I think I will have to (those who can afford it). Some people don't like prices, some people do. A set price is appealing to some, if it is 50K for this the next time you see him it might be less but never more than 50K. Plus you never risk the tip pissing him off, he asked for 50K then that is what he gets. (Conversely, if you are going to get pissed off from a 2K tip then you should have set a price.)

The only activity worse that I have seen is making a bunch of implants.

[OneManArmy]

350k is a LOT for most ppls that don't have characters lvl70+,

If you cannot afford it, you shouldn't be needing a 132 wrangle.
Lvl 30 twinks are one of the reasons the OE-patch is on it's way. It is unbalancing that too low-lvls go around with weapond 4 times their own lvl, crammed in there with a 132 wrangle.
If you cannot afford it, you probably do not need it.

How hard is it really to execute a Nano Program on another ppl?

When you get 5 tells just be running through a major city, on your way to a mission and your team is waiting.... and the biggest wrangles requires deprieve/ransack prefferably in a backyard. That takes time.

and the wrangles..... they DO take me out of comissin for the duration.

Lots of ranting about wrangling here.

And as for the price, 350k isn't that much, really. My lvl 90 guy makes 500k in no time. 50% single missions. Just gotta know what to look for. And use AOMD, of course. If he goes teammissions, he goes 100%, and, well, 1 mill isn't that far away.
~400k just for a ql 150 battlesuit. And then there's the cashreward and loot.

If you're lvl 50 (or 30 like me) YOU DON'T NEED THE HIGH BUFFS, AND THUS IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEM!
And if you don't like the price, shop somewhere else. We decide the price, you decide who gets your money. Simple as that.

[_______________Valen]

The bottom line is, people set prices and charge for buffs, because people keep paying them.

That will never change as long as people keep paying.

It reduces the time you have to spend buffing other people, and it makes you a little cash.

I have no problem with people who demand a certain cost for buffs. I have every right to chose not to get a buff from them if I don't like their price.

If newbies need buffs that bad and can't afford them (they don't *need* 132 wrangles or +80 treatment buffs) they should join a guild and get buffs from guild members.

[_______________Tiran]

Bottom line:

No one except current group members, or guild members, depending on guild policy, 'owes' you a buff. They may choose to give them free. They may choose to charge. Their choice, not yours.

Your choice is 'pay or not'. If the sellers are actually overcharging, they get less 'sales', prices tend to drop.

Charge what the market will bear' is the rule. Would you REALLY want to, oh, say, demand all MA's buff crit for free, and never pay? And then watch the MA's say, 'sure, we can deal with this... NO crit buffs for ANYone but another MA.' Happy now? Don't think you would be. <grin>

[Redrazors]

As a doctor, I dumped a whole load of ip into psy mod and sens impr to be able to cast specialist treatment. Now, I don't need to raise these skills for anything else, and the only reason I did it was to be able to make easy money. So I don't think it is that unfair expecting to get paid for it - cause I could easily have the spent the ip on something else for my own benefit.

As for the cast before or after cash. I always cast before the cash, but there again, I haven't been burned yet. Tips or set prices? I think maybe I get more from tips than I would if I set the price, especailly by those uber-twinkers.

In essence I agree with Tiran, why should anyone expect a buff for free? I do randomly help new players out, but that's my own call.

[Anitablond]

cl1nt0n: Im a lvl 110 trader and whenever i standing in a city i get /tells like "132 wrangler plz" etc. I charge people for my time and effort, still at lvl 110 it takes awhile for me to plunder/divests my way up to do a 132 wrangle. A trader needs plunder/divests to use high ql wrangles and to use those you need about crystals ql 120+. There are 6 in the plunder line and 5 in the divest line. Dont you think it costs some creds to get those? And also the wrangles cost lots of creds, the 132 wrangle is a ql 189 crystal. The highest wrangle in shop is a 74.

My point is that it takes lots of creds and time to do high wrangles and thats why people charge for it. Same for a MP i fully understand why they charge for mochams.

[_____________Cloudeh]

LoL its funny isnt it, I hate it when some classes think they are the most asked for person to be Questioned for buffs.

We al have implants, we all have nanos.

Last night I just wanted Infuse MC and BIO so I could cast Gargantua, Dont give me an **** with oh you should bealbe to self cast it plz, I sont have the IPS and not going into Nanos till I cap other skills.

All I got was, 50, 200k for one, What do they think I am? A Engineer?! I told him I didnt need it for a damned pet, all I want to do is Cast Gargantua for me and my team, Terrabahamut gave me the nano, shame it said "out of charges" 8/

I get constantly asked for Titan, It only takes, what 3 seconds, point, click, "press 5" for me.

I dont expect tips.

But most of those, "other classes" expect buffs all the time.

Enforcers get treated badly, you have doctors screaming tips for IC and we dont get anything from doing the same kind of buff, except you get HP from ours.

I have spoken to many enfs that are pissed off with this.

Its beyond haha funny, what a coincedence etc.

Tho some people earn a living doing it.
I dont.

Once I needed someone to buff my brother becuase he accidentally took off his weapon, now he has to pay a few hundred k to get it back on.

I didnt know when your ammunition is depleted and you try and fire your gun comes off, another waste.


/tell unknownMA Could I get LMA please I am trying to solo some missions and it would help.

[UnknownMA] 100k please
To [UnknownMA] Rip off.

So i did the mission without it until one of my friends buffed me with it, and I gave em titan in exchange =)

I could be really mean and always ask for a set price, but im not greedy or selfish like that, ill buff anyone.

But next time I see a trader I might think twice and go, heh, taking advantage are we?

Its a buff...click....simple.

Traders may need to divest whatever they call it for higher wrangles, but thats thier problemo.

Oh another thing, when I want to roleplay or go to a small "ex-guild" event I take my armor off and helmet and put a suit/shades on.

When it comes to putting it back on I "used to" need a higher Essence and IC, I had to pay, but, why?! I already had it on before, all I wanted to do is have fun, do I have to pay for everything?
Even for fun?!

There are a select few people who buff for free, I am one, if you ever need an Enforcer buff dont hesitate to ask.

Then I asked a lvl110 (i think) Enforcer
Me: "Hello. May I have Essence from you?"
Him: "yea-- essence of titan is 25k friend )"
Me: "Sure."


Jus ask meh