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Thread: Story missions

  1. #261

    Never ever camp for anything USEFUL

    If some people as suggested above actually seem to enjoy camping, then the items they camp for must NEVER provide an advantage over other players. The balance of power should not be given to the ratpack guilds with 200+ members or those without real lives who can sit in front of a computer for 18+ hourse.

    I say reward those people with Red Yalmahas and Sunglasses with Green Lenses. These things can be uber-rare and extremely cool to look at. People can know they will probably never have a chance to get these items. This is fine.

    EDIT: I saw a post earlier that mentioned the time when Katara sunglasses were rare and sold for millions. These are the kinds of things that should be rare. They really mean something to the person who has them. He/she really looks cool in town wearing them. Not everybody has them. Hence those with gazillions of credits to spend or those with true luck or leet camping skillz get to have them. I was kind of pissed when these sunglasses became commonplace. On the other side of the coin, things as unbalancing and game altering as the Blash Shirt and Shades, should be as equally available to all players as Nullity or Grid Armor is. Whoever heard of somebody 'camping Grid Armor'? Sure you hear whining and moaning about its rarity. But, you don't hear someone complaining about hogging the Gravebeau spawn. Think about it.

    What must NEVER happen is that something that is actually useful and game unbalancing is put in the hands of the lucky or the campers. The prime example is the Black Shirt of Zuwadza. This item adds over four complete levels of pet creation skills to a metaphysicist. This is utterly imbalancing in favor of those who have this item. The problem is that not every player (who provides the same 12.95 to FunCom) has the same opportunity to get this item. This is the situation that is having people quit the game. This is the situation that is having me consider ending my subscription.

    If I want this item, I must either join a huge guild or .... well, that's about my only option. If by some bizzare freak of human nature, the huge guilds decided to let the Average Joe have a shot at this item, then I would have to sit for 18 hours and 40 minutes next to 96 other players waiting for him to 'pop'. And then have a 1 in 20 chance of getting his shirt. Where's the skill in that, and more importantly, where's the 'fun' in that?

    Now, the lucky person who is in the huge guild and gets 'issued' his shirt will always and forever have a better pet than me. Why is this fair? How does this make Anarchy Online a better game. Is it preferable that opportunity is not equally meted out to the players? I think not. Rare items should be fore rare item collectors they should be valued because they are rare, not because they are powerful. If an item is powerful, it should be rare ONLY because it is difficult to obtain. However, the OPPORTUNITY to obtain the item absolutely MUST be equal for every single player who pays to play the game.

    Players should be competing against the game for useful items not each other. Putting me against my fellow player in a struggle for an item will have me cancel my subscription. I'm not an a-hole and refuse to engage in childish pissing contests where two children are each tugging at the toy they want to play with. You know how that ends .... one of the kids starts crying or screaming his head off while the other sits smug and waves the toy at the 'loser' to add further humiliation. This is Anarchy Online now. Only 95% of the player base are losers. That's why these boards are FULL of logical and mature players posting about how foul a situation FunCom has created.

    If both kids were good and ate their meals and cleaned their rooms, then both kids should get their own toy. End of story.
    Last edited by Bionitrous; Mar 27th, 2002 at 19:01:17.

  2. #262

    NO CAMPING...PLZ!!!!

    This is just another post saying...

    PLEASE

    NO

    CAMPING!

    I am another Everquest to Anarchy Online switcher and the reason why i left EQ is due to the <*insert flame remark here*> CAMPING!

    Thank you.

    Venny 62 Engy
    Veha 24 MA

  3. #263
    Just want to put in a conversation that really happened concering one of your unique mob spawns....

    "We've been here for 20 minutes is the Trash King going to Spawn"

    "Yeah, I was here last night and helped some people kill him.. he has an 18 hour and 20 minute spawn, so he should be spawning any minute now"

    "Awesome"

    "Can we come back 18 hours after the next server reset so that I can loot him then?"

    "Sure, since you are helping me kill him, I will help you kill him"

    "The server reset today at 12:00 GMT"

    "Really????????"

    "Yeah"

    "OMFG, that means he won't be spawning for another 6 hours"

    "Well thanks for coming out here guys, wish we could've done something rather than stand around and waste 45 minutes"



    FIX THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FIX THIS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I helped someone kill trash king. It was our group of 6 vs. one group of six storm members vs another group of 6 storm members vs. another group of 6.... We got loot... maybe someday I will be the person to get my loot...

    The spawn system is horribly painful we ended up waiting 1 hour before TK actually spawned... got there early so we'd be ready and buffed and able to deal good quick damage!!!!!!!!

    You may want to keep loot rare, but instead you just frustrate a lot of players... you also force up the prices... I can't believe the number of times I've seen a pair of Shades for sale or the vest for sale over the last week and asking 100mil creds... there is two active auctions on EBAY atm that are selling them for over $100... I had someone send me a tell wishing to sell the "Third eye of Daria" for 200mil... as if it really even had much value.


    WHATEVER YOU DO, PLEASE just fix it somehow, someway, that we don't have to camp anything. The minor unique robots like ElectroUnique, Metalomania, etc. are around almost everytime I have wanted to try and fight them. They have a decent spawn time and a 100% drop rate... It was incredibly fun for me to spend the time to kill these guys and get their loot... I don't ever even get a chance at the other uniques. Please don't make us camp... The game shouldn't be about learning spawn times.. it should be about completely quests or going in to kill the Unique... Maybe move Trash King inside one of the buildings their in Athens Shire.. (they aren't used for much)... put a key dispenser next to it and that key works for an individualized mission. The mission room would be simple... entry room and main room... the main room would be the home of the Boss mob... If I got the key from the mission term and duped it then I could not get a boss spawn for 18 hours... he can go back every 18 hours if he wishes and kill the trash king until he has every drop he wants... but make the drops NoDrop NoTrade...

    if you want to force loot to be rarer then make the mobs harder... don't make them so no one ever gets to fight them. Of course if you make the mobs much harder you are only truly making the items available for people's rerolls.
    Last edited by eleetist; Mar 27th, 2002 at 20:02:13.

  4. #264

    Re: Never ever camp for anything USEFUL

    Originally posted by Bionitrous

    I say reward those people with Red Yalmahas and Sunglasses with Green Lenses. These things can be uber-rare and extremely cool to look at. People can know they will probably never have a chance to get these items. This is fine.

    If I want this item, I must either join a huge guild or .... well, that's about my only option. If by some bizzare freak of human nature, the huge guilds decided to let the Average Joe have a shot at this item, then I would have to sit for 18 hours and 40 minutes next to 96 other players waiting for him to 'pop'. And then have a 1 in 20 chance of getting his shirt. Where's the skill in that, and more importantly, where's the 'fun' in that?
    PLEASE LISTEN TO BIONITROUS FUNCOM.... I, like him, am annoyed with the camping...

    He makes the best points I have ever seen... Don't give someone a distinct advantage solely because they are in a large 200+ person guild of mainly level 150+ members or because they like to sit in the same spot for 18 hours...

    This is the main thorn in my side in this game. I can't begin to describe the number of times I have been out to the unique spawns to get my loot and have never seen 99.99999% of the uniques...

  5. #265

    NO CAMPING !!!

    Camping Bad!!!!

    NO CAMPING !!
    NO CAMPING !!
    NO CAMPING !!
    NO CAMPING !!
    NO CAMPING !!
    NO CAMPING !!
    NO CAMPING !!



    Can we say it anymore clearly???

  6. #266

    Lightbulb

    How about a random player/team specific quest appearing in the mission booths were you are given an artifact and instructions to go to a place, activate the artifact to spawn the start of the quest to eliminate the need for waiting for someone to spawn?

  7. #267

    NoDrop WHAT????

    How do you folk see making stuff Nodrop as an anticamp. It means more camping cuase then each char. someone wants the item on must be there to CAMP the mob! folk, just cuase EQ said its a cure for camping doesn't make it so. they used it as a cure for twinking. something AO has handled nicely.

    Cure for camping......

    The random mission layout works well. If I'm the only person in the room and my target mob is in the room ...bang i have the mob I needed. Don't make items mob drops. Make them mission and quest rewards.

    the mob drop in itself is the problem with camping!

    If I must kill the pink bunny to get my item then so must everyone else! but if its a quest .....then i kill mob X and i loot it, the quest if finished and i recives my iteam.

    whats the differants between these two?

    The Mob! Mob X can be a leet, john doe, or Bob....
    and if it's in a controled area then most of your problems are solved.

    Also if it's posible make it where only the person (or group) with the quest can attack the target mob. then the outdoors mission/quests would go alot smooter too. you could have a triggered spawn.
    Its not what ya know. its who ya know!

  8. #268

    Ozeki

    I see where you are coming from about rarity, but the only reason for the scenarios you played out is lazy programming (though your story was funny) .

    It is easier to stick people with long spawn times and fighting over the spawns than it is to provide a quest with enough subquests and puzzles to solve to similarly limit the number of that item on the server after a year. The solutions to some of the puzzles will make it onto websites, but if it is programmed properly, that still won't detract too much from the effort required (and effort = time).

    In addition to adding more content to the quest, they can lvl limit who can help with certain parts of the quest (for example if a higher lvl you can't group with and both get xp did any dmg to any monster for a combat portion of a quest, you wouldn't complete that subquest, or it wouldn't even let them in with you to begin with. As an example imagine SOM were like that. Every team got their own dungeon. A 100+ team could go in and get a replacement robe, but a lowbie couldn't go in with 5 100+ characters and get the robe. They would only be able to loot if all characters that did dmg to Neleb were in their grouping range), and even make some parts of the quest solo only (particularly for class specific quests).

    That all takes programming. Camping takes away the need for that creative programming. Sticking the player with fixing the programming problem by making them camp for huge amounts of time is unacceptable!


    Skara

  9. #269

    Re: I love camping!

    You know, that's rather a nice strawman you set up. I can barely see the stuffing. The problem is, of course...

    Originally posted by Ozeki
    As an example, I present two theoretical servers, Rubi-Kamp and Dyni-Ka, and a theoretical item, Nano-Crystal (Lag).
    Out of _all_ the items and item classes possible, you pick the one that does what _none_ of the existing rare "camped" drops does - it adds a new capability to a character. (As far as I know, there are no specific nano-crystal _quests_, though there are certainly nano-crystal rare drops.)

    Yes, right, existing rare "camped" drops do indeed influence the _skills_ a character has. But skills are all they influence. There is nothing a character with a camped drop can do that a character without one cannot do in time.

    ...heh. Of course, going into how nano-crystals break up the rather smooth power/skill ratio that quality levels establish is a rant for another time. But I do believe AO is built such that a rare camped drop of any sort _besides_ a nano crystal can be distrubuted to the population en masse and still not be seen as a necessity.

  10. #270
    - Do you want story-missions that are profession specific or not?

    Both. Make the profession specific ones solo, and you'll have the more passive gamer in your hand.

    - Do you want side-defined missions, or missions for everyone?

    Both. Be careful tho... just because a story and reward may be clan only, doesn't always mean that a clanner will pick the reward up.

    - Do you want the quests to scale with your level? (So you may take the same mission at lvl 30 and at 100, only with tougher opponents?)

    Every dungeon I've been to so far as had one major flaw. The items that you find on the way to the end of the dungeon have always been _subtantially_ lower in quality that the level of the team required to do the task.

    The first thing I would do is treat story missions like standard mission, in that you have a key. This key (which can be duplicated) will allow the person(s) to enter a story location. Not every location has to be inside a particular place, but if you put any locations that will require fighting, this will kill the problem of large guild/high level team camping.

    I would also make it so that there is no value at all in people killing "public" story-NPC's. This will stop any griefing (to some degree).

    - Do you want many small, or fewer longer quests?

    Both. Perhaps longer as you get higher.

    - Is it ok with you to camp spawns, like we see in other MMORPGs?

    Err.... no. If it's a public NPC that must be fought to in order to gain access to the reward or next step, then definately no.

    - Is it ok with you if we interweave the normal auto-content mission system in this, so that we can generate areas for you even in these story missions? (Or do you want only outdoor action?)

    I'd be happy with this. As long as the journey is rewarding, and the reward associated is worth the efforts made, then I don't think anyone will mind.

    The one thing you should be careful of, is what is happening at the moment. Public Camping. An idea may be to put something similar to the shop-of-fortune ticket machine outside any venues that will be involved in the story. If you make them the same as the standard mission key, then people can duplicate them as needed, yet you keep the story private to those involved.
    Powervault ~ Legion
    Poweredge ~ Omegastrike

    Poweredge's Soldier Guide (Now Sticky!)

    You want to use CAC in SL? READ THIS

  11. #271

    Exclamation On teh story missions and other things

    Well..i thought from the outset that ao should have had proffession specifi mssions...ie..a trader or adventuree clss could have trade transporting missions..the ma or agent could have assassination missions..soldiers and enforcers could have team missions to hunt down and kill so many onmi scum of lvl X
    the great thing about this is that it removes the repetative dungeons and that u get to try completely new missions when u start a new char with a dif prof. I think it would be such a shame not to implement this becuase it would make the game so much more interesting..i also think that a char of ne prof should be alowed to help u on a prof specific mission even if they dont have the same prf..some missions could also overlap into many profs.
    The other point i wanted to make was that i thought that to make the game much mroe fun and exciting and to keep the conflict spirit alive in citys or maybe utside citys their should be no pvp ban when omni versus clan..i mean sure the a few nebies muhgt get their asses kicked but they can always run away and it would realy make tings more interesting..i mean ive been playing for a while now on rubai 2 and ther is harly ever ne clan versu omni pvp and its dumb just going to some area in the middle of no where for a big rumble.
    Ne way this rant has got too long..I hope someone taes my views into acount
    Lubai

  12. #272

    Too late...

    For those of us who despise camping, we're already screwed. Ever tried the Alvin quest? He spawns every two hours and only lasts long enough for one person to complete the quest. Funcom, how does pitting players against each other to engage Alvin enhance the game experience?

    Not to mention the waiting aspect; I thought bandwidth was expensive and what better way to burn it up but to have people sitting around waiting for a spawn? Does anyone get a rush having to camp?

    Personally, I hope that the people who design quests requiring camping go to a Hell where they have to wait with billions of other souls for a single glass of water to appear once a millenium...

  13. #273
    Even though I am only a few weeks old into AO, here's my two credit's worth...

    Do you want story-missions that are profession specific or not?

    --Either is fine with me, as long as they make me feel as if I am partaking in the story-arc of the game.

    Do you want side-defined missions, or missions for everyone?

    --Again, either. I have characters in both the clan and Omni.

    Do you want the quests to scale with your level? (So you may take the same mission at lvl 30 and at 100, only with tougher opponents?)

    --This makes sense. I do not want to run a mission where everyone is gray and I'm not getting any points for my actions.

    Do you want many small, or fewer longer quests?

    --Again, both. If I only have an hour on AO, then a short mission would be fine. However, if the longer missions are not timed, but say once I complete part of it I gotta go find an NPC which is always around, then this would work for me, too. Actually, I would LOVE to have a mission that lasted me days to finish, not hours, but days.

    Is it ok with you to camp spawns, like we see in other MMORPGs?

    --BAD IDEA!!! I just left Ultima Online, after two years, where camping certain spawns during their infrequent attempts at a background story was rampant. This frustrated a heck of a lot of people, and if the monster/NPC/whatever was one you had to kill and it had a rare item as a drop the situation was ALWAYS bad. Nothing like going to one of the areas and find 60+ people there waiting...just a reminder: BAD IDEA!!!

    Is it ok with you if we interweave the normal auto-content mission system in this, so that we can generate areas for you even in these story missions? (Or do you want only outdoor action?)

    --If this will allow everyone a chance at earning something (like a rare, which then makes it not-a-rare, heh) then by all means interweave to your hearts content. If, though, the object is to control a certain area for a certain amount of time, then make it outdoors.

    *****
    That being said, I am all for story-related missions. I had my first encounter with an NPC that talked to me today, and man-oh-man was it cool. The NPCs in UO did the same for about the first two weeks I played, and then the designers got lazy (or whatever their excuse was, at the time) and discontinued this practice. Thus the largest city there was inhabited by about 200+ NPCs which did absolutely nothing but walk around, only occasionally saying a word, and usually it was a warning to the guards that "so-and-so" was a thief, which then brought the guards in whacking the poor SOB. Otherwise, they were zombies. Talk about BORING...

    Peace.

  14. #274
    I'd love to see Adventurers use different vehicles. It would allow them allocate so much more ip into other skills... We would use our green vehicle skills to get the best, quickest ones and hopefully some new vehicles would appear with some weapon gear...

    In one fellow green skill (or more for hybrid vehicles =) ), our damage and speed would be solved, AND forget about the useless morphs...

    Now if our Mech.Eng would allow us to REPAIR, customize, modify the vehicles, it would definitely make a new adventurer type out there... Like bikers etc. And since the vehicle would become our main thing, we would like the outdoors even better

    Problem is: MISSION.

    I guess that would ask the dev team to make outdoor missions. =)

    Hey... adv love, right?

    Oh yes I know...

    So for one question, since the rest surely is not innovative and that adv's are never to be patched, yes make outdoor missions and make class specific missions.


    __________________
    _When the going gets uber, the leet goes flirting...
    _When the going gets uber, the leet goes flirting...

  15. #275
    Hehe I think its pretty unanamous, nobody likes camping

  16. #276
    Why not make it so you can't finish a quest without actually getting the mission... ?
    With Dodga (and probably Alvin too) u collect the items and deliver to get mission done... I actually didn't talk through and got mission before I tried it on test-server... Make him stay there at all times so that those doing the quest can talk to him and get the mission...
    And please if someone complain about having to talk to the NPC to get the mission let them use the mission-terminals for normal missions, the story missions and quests SHOULD be for RolePlay- ppl ONLY...

    Regards
    Flapsie

  17. #277

    Bureaucrat's Role - Mission creation - Camping

    Bureaucrat's Rp aspect - Mission Creation - Camping of items

    Heya

    At the launch of the game, Bureaucrats were supposed to be the only ones able to create player-generated missions.

    This has been forgiven since that time, and the player-created missions don't exist anymore at the moment.

    I will here try to propose a simple way to implement those without a lot of work.
    There will maybe be a lot of cons, but I think it will not be exploitable, the only real weakness of that is the amount of tells bureaucrats could maybe have if taht is implemented one day.
    (But isn't that the price for being a profession with an unique ability usefull to others people?)

    This idea come from a post in the bureaucrat forum about the use of the briefcase crats were supposed to have and the fact that having a remote access to bank was maybe more a Fixer thing.
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...0&pagenumber=1

    So let's begin:

    Bureaucrats are supposed to be leaders, they have access to private files with official informations as they are working in offices and they are the ones able to give quests to other players.
    In a perfect world, they should be able to send different people to fulfill all their needs.

    As we are here talking about story missions, and as the player-generated missions will maybe never see the light, it could maybe be a possibility to combine both of those:

    Bureaucrats should be able to get more informations when talking with a NPC.
    (Our main ability is to control people - our psychology skill is supposed to be of some use when talking to npcs)

    My naive proposition is that we could get more informations about quests, static dungeons, missions, .. when talking to the right Npcs, and be able to "sell" those informations to people in need of adventure.

    What I mean here is not informations that can be spoiled on the forums like locations of unique mobs or key words...
    Everything should be known really quick and the camping problem would not be resolved at all!

    I'm thinking about the fact that with our high psychology and charism we could talk to Npcs like Alvin and others like him, and get a Special card as we have persuaded him we are trusthworthy..

    This card could then be given/sold to a particular people, to a guild, to a team.. and only this people-guild-team could do the story mission.
    On the card they may be some location informations and the card is the key to open a dungeon..
    This way, the player-guild-team can travel outdoors to the mission location and do it.. alone.. I mean there will be no risk of a camped-boss, or of another powerful team already killing every mobs or training every monster at the entrance of the mission.

    That is the idea, and I find some positive points in it:

    -An alternative for player-generated missions intended for bureaucrats.
    -Less camping-Target stealing, training.. when in story missions.
    -One real challenge for the team-guild, that is unique to team and different everytime.
    -No need to make the npc disappear when someone has got the mission.


    Now the important things needed so that cannot be exploited:

    -That cannot be done more than once or twice a day
    -To avoid farming of those cards, the bureaucrat should only have a low number of slots (3 .. the 3 of the player-created missions) and these missions could only be sold to players after having been linked to their Id-Data so that only those should be able to enter the dungeon.
    This way, the bureaucrat cannot collect a lot of those missions and sell them at the same time.. That is not the point.
    -Missions should be in the level range of the bureaucrat.


    Amanite


    PS: about the Original post, I've read every answers and I have to say I think there is a vast majority of players thinking the same: Every propositions made were really intersting.. but we don't want Camping anymore.
    The proposition I made here is only an idea made to improve the RP aspect of bureaucrats, their economy, and most of all, the problem of teams camping the same boss for items.

  18. #278

    Post

    • Do you want story-missions that are profession specific or not?


    yes and several of it

    • Do you want side-defined missions, or missions for everyone?


    sided - we are in war

    • Do you want the quests to scale with your level? (So you may take the same mission at lvl 30 and at 100, only with tougher opponents?)


    yes

    • Do you want many small, or fewer longer quests?


    both and a mixture; big quests with many subquest

    • Is it ok with you to camp spawns, like we see in other MMORPGs?


    no

    • Is it ok with you if we interweave the normal auto-content mission system in this, so that we can generate areas for you even in these story missions? (Or do you want only outdoor action?)


    indoor action is ok as long as its different from the "normal" mission (mission booth generated onces)

  19. #279
    Originally posted by Flapsie
    Why not make it so you can't finish a quest without actually getting the mission... ?
    With Dodga (and probably Alvin too) u collect the items and deliver to get mission done... I actually didn't talk through and got mission before I tried it on test-server... Make him stay there at all times so that those doing the quest can talk to him and get the mission...

    Flapsie
    This problem could be solved by having one person "give" the quest, and Dodga "receive" the item. The "giver" dodn't disappear, while Dodga keeps his same actions. When I did the quest, I was told rather sternly NOT to do the preface to the quest, there was a line to give him the cards, and making him pop just to get the "official quest" was NOT going to be allowed. A pity. I was actually low enough level that the exp and credits meant something to me.

    Along the same lines...when dodga gives you "card I" he sends you to Bliss, or Tir, or Meetmedere to meet his friend who will give you the shouldpads.

    Now the mobs don't have to pop, but you can't zip through it quickly either, because each MoB has a different "give"/"receive" set of commmands.

    For "low level" quests, this is a great way to force you to travel Rubi-Ka. Imagine being a level 5 in Tir (ahem, your FIRST level 5 character <G>) and being sent to West Athen, then Freedom, then the War Academy, then back to Tir. DAoC was great with their static quests in that they forced you to travel far and wide and see the world (whether you wanted to or not). By the time yuo are level 100 you be going to 25% areas in the heart of the enemy to find your MoBs.

    Some of the more interesting places to put such mobs:
    1. The third tier of the Grid. You want the quest? Get that comp-lit up, sucker!
    2. On top of a mountain accessible only to fliers. Ok parrot-boy and MP-guy, you can pass, but everyone else needs a Yalmala.
    3. One of the "prisoners" in the OMNI dome in southern Avalon.
    4. In the middle of Old Athens.
    5. etc. etc.

    I think the mission team is thinking about these things. I strongly urge having multiple mobs spread far and wide as the solution to camping.


    Bleys

  20. #280

    Thumbs up

    A BIG BUMP to that one

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