Let Funcom sell credits, accounts, items!

[________________cson]

Originally posted by Domu

Cson, I'm sorry, but if you have no time to level a character in a game designed for charcater growth, then why are you playing a mmorpg?

I didn't say I had no time to level a character. I said I didn't want to waste time leveling another character. AO is a leveling threadmill. Lvl 1 - 100 are easy and fun. You actually experience new stuff. Lvl 100+ is the same old crap. But, AO is very addictive. Most people lvl 150+ like to PvP because there's not much else to do. What I'm saying is - I have already spent countless hours leveling up my MA to 159. I really don't want to do it again. It was fun the first time, but not so much fun to do it again. Really. I started a Trader, but it was just as boring because I had already gone through the low levels.

[________________Tuxx]

Project Entropia, that was the one I was thinking of. Thanks, I hate when i can't remember a name.

I think a premium thing might not not be a bad idea for AO. It may be to young now, not too sure about that. Perhaps, for those who have leveled a character to 200 or there about, they could pay to have access to things that make transfering items to their new characters easier, or maybe even a way to transfer experience from the older to newer character. Maybe, just an idea. I would probably be behind a premium service if it was handled well. Basically, the player will still have earned the right to use the service.

I think you are right on Project Entropia. I remember being wary of it when I first read about it and selling items back for cash would be a formula any mobster would love.

This problem has been around for a long time and I agree, I don't think any company will ever stop it completely. I do give it Funcom for standing up to them as much as they have, and I hope they smack them good.

[___________xenomorph]

Originally posted by cson


Do you even pay attention? How old are you - 15, 16? . You missed my point entirely. Just trying to point out that some people DO have lives outside of AO. You want role play? I got your role play for you right here.

lol with that little role playing comment you are the one who sounds like a 16 yr old. Only a 16yr would respond in that manner. I am 25 if you need to know.

your point is your mad at NT's and want a easy way to get them back, well I rolled my NT because a NT handed my soldier his @$$ back to him many of times, only to learn that that NT's are not that big of gods (plus the fight with the NT was before the %40 pvp rule) Maybe if the %40 cap was gone then I would agree with you that NTs have it easy in pvp, but the same could be said about a soldier and MP's.

edit:
I don't play my NT anymore except to get money my main chr is my crat now.

[________FileNotFound]

You saying FC should sell money is like saying "Why doesn't the US Mint just give me $10000000000?"

Credit from funcom have ZERO real value. They're not earned.

Same with duped/exploited credits.

Aslong as they are created in game within the limits of the game and are thus legitimate then yes I say sell all you want.

BS sold DUPED CREDITS. Thats is a problem. That devaluates credits and floods the economy.

If FC sold credits it'd be no different.

[________________cson]

Originally posted by xenomorph


lol with that little role playing comment you are the one who sounds like a 16 yr old. Only a 16yr would respond in that manner. I am 25 if you need to know.

your point is your mad at NT's and want a easy way to get them back, well I rolled my NT because a NT handed my soldier his @$$ back to him many of times, only to learn that that NT's are not that big of gods (plus the fight with the NT was before the %40 pvp rule) Maybe if the %40 cap was gone then I would agree with you that NTs have it easy in pvp, but the same could be said about a soldier and MP's.

edit:
I don't play my NT anymore except to get money my main chr is my crat now.

Yeah, ok, that was a childish comment. And no, I never said NTs were Gods, but for some odd reason, NTs think that everyone else think that they're Gods. I know they have trouble in PvM at high levels, especially if they don't have a shotty. And yes I do hold a grudge, and I want to kill all the NTs.

Maybe I will start up a soldier from scratch. I actually didn't play as much as I wanted to for the last couple of months because I recommended some very difficult graduate level courses for my girlfriend. I thought this would give her more time to study, and give me more time to play AO. Unfortunately, it backfired. I ended up speding a lot of time helping her with her homework.

I have to come up with a new plan so I can play more AO when she goes back to school next quarter. Yes, I am addicted to AO. I try to play as much as I can. Unfortunately, I can't, and I'm jealous that every else has more time than I do to play AO.

Why the hell am I telling you this? Ok, time to go home and play AO.

[Autocratt]

er... the US Treasury/Mint does make money by selling, well basically money. It prints money for pennies and everybody has to accept them. The money it prints out reduces the need for taxes to pay for the Federal budget. Shocked? Well, it's OK as long as the economy expands. Overprinting leads to inflation ala Brazil.

I don't think whether the credits are earned or not is relevant at all. IMHO, I am quite fine with players buying credits with real money. Really, it is a game and some players want an offsetting advantage to those that don't have time.

Why do you really care? Yours and mine hard earned characters are what they are and we can be proud of it. I enjoy putting in the time. And if someone has a bought-up char I really don't need to lose sleep about it. Heck, aren't there a bunch of lvl 200 char still around who used an exploit and have not been banned?

When I see a higher lvl char (which is about everyone ) I don't feel jealousy, envy or admiration at their level or items. Not worth the heartburn. I like getting to know people and then I'll make a judgment.

PvP griefers? Well, I guess since I won't PvP I can't make an opinion on this.

[Nikki.]

Two reasons why this is not the best idea.

1. Items wherent earned legitimatly. Either way both exploiters and Funcom would be handing a player and account or items that wherent earned. Atleast the other way SOMEONE had to sweat for those levels items.

2. It doesnt solve the problem. People will STILL sell their items. The only difference there will be a hardcap on prices. And if Funcom tries to manipulate those prices then they could end up screwing the whole game. If they dont nothing changes.


I say just ban the exploiters and IMMIDIATLY erase their accounts. Let the honest player who sweated for their items ebay them. Its the only way to keep it evened out.

[____________Tempered]

Games are made to be fair to all involved. You all should have learned this when you were 4 years old. You don't start a game of checkers with more pieces than the other guy. You can't pay the umpire to get to first base. This is commonly refered to as cheating! If you played cards against a stacked deck, you would get angry and quit.

[________FileNotFound]

But there would be nothing wrong with you buying a $1000 baseball bat?

Same here. Nothing wrong with buying 200 Mil....UNLESS they were pulled out of thin air. Because then they're not worth sh|t

[_____________Paldorr]

If Funcom used only characters from cancelled accounts, every credit and exp would have been earned. They could "bank" thoe items from characters who were cancelled/deleted and use only those credits/exp/levels without impacting the economy one bit.

Also - it would allow Funcom to buy back characters/credits from people leaving (if they so desired) and re-sell them. Thus solving the issue of people auctioning off accountswhile offering a huge incentive to new players -"Play AO - When you're ready to leave we'll buy your account."

I still like the idea - Decriminalize something and the criminals go away

[Snuble]

1) Credit selling by Funcom

2) Selling higher lvl characters, if yes what is the max level you would allow to be sold?

3) Item sales?

4) Free game time for players who sell credit/rare items back to Funcom?

1: The natural reaction from a company would be; "I need more money, I can sell inline credits, so I'll make it the only way to get credits ingame."

2: Again, in the extreme case, it would probably be the only way to ever get a high level hero player

3: You want a uniqe item? Enter your credit card number here, and its in your inventory! Find it? On your own? Nope, you buy it or never see it.

4: FC give away game time? Perhaps a 50% rebate for 20M? (Most would probably say that they could get way more at ebay )

I've already looked at the concept idea of another online game that where to sell ingame stuff for reallife money, and I didnt like the idea at all. It would not be a game that I played.

[Snuble]

But there would be nothing wrong with you buying a $1000 baseball bat?

The $1000 bat would not make you an all star player (and Maradona did not become a godgifted player because of his expensive football or shoes (well in his case the money was the other way )

In AO a $1000 lvl200 Soldier would make you a semi-god, and the 200M credits would add to the ingame inflation and affect everyone else.

[________________cson]

Actually, I thought about buying Seagal's account when it came back on Ebay about two or three months ago. He wanted 2k for it I believe. My char was barely lvl 100 then, and I seriously considered buying it just for PvP. Yes, just to get revenge on all the OMNI NTs and Agents that used to kill me in 2H0 from rooftops before I fully grided. But I followed my better judgement and decided not to.

I you think about how much time you've spent playing you're characters, $2000 or even $5000 is not a lot of money. But yes, it would put people that don't have a lot of money to spend at a big disadvantage. But as it stands now, it puts people that don't have a lot of time to play at a big disadvantage.

[________FileNotFound]

Originally posted by Snublefot


The $1000 bat would not make you an all star player (and Maradona did not become a godgifted player because of his expensive football or shoes (well in his case the money was the other way )

In AO a $1000 lvl200 Soldier would make you a semi-god, and the 200M credits would add to the ingame inflation and affect everyone else.

No. The 200M would not affect the economy IF THEY WERE LEGITIMATE.

So if FC hired 50 people to play AO 24/7 and farm credits then sell them. Nothign wrong with it.

If they typed /give_credits 500000000000
then yeah that'd F things up.

[Autocratt]

OK, anyone here ever play tournament chess? The analogy to AO is that in tournament chess we use clocks so people are limited as to how much time you can think. (Usually, you get like 30-60 min to make 30-40 moves.) Now playing someone with a 5 hour limit vs. someone who has a 30 min limit isn't fair either but that's about what we have in AO (and in all MMORPG that have this enormous leveling treadmill.)

Is it cheating if you get to play 24/7 and someone else gets only a few hours a week? Are you sure? It can certainly feel like it.

Again, how does it really hurt you to have someone buy a bunch of credits from Funcom? I think the player earned it, he paid for it with real money he earned someplace else.

And an extra 200 mil in the economy happens everyday in AO. Where do the credits come from? Thin air. You think there is a certain limit to total credits in the game so if we reach that limit then stores will stop paying for your stuff or mobs stop dropping money? No way! Just like the US banking system can create money, AO does the same. (WTH do Leets carry credits on them?)

Unlike in UO, that 200 mil will just disappear quickly, the ppl who bought this will buy up all the stuff they need in the stores and poof 200 mil becomes worth 2 mil (i.e. the resale value of the yalm, weps, armor, ncu's, implants, nanos etc. that they bought.)

Yeah, maybe AO needs to introduce wear and tear on items so they go away after awhile like in UO. I can see it now, the total number of QL 200 Vektor shotguns just grows and grows.

[________FileNotFound]

Originally posted by SeraphFire
OK, anyone here ever play tournament chess? The analogy to AO is that in tournament chess we use clocks so people are limited as to how much time you can think. (Usually, you get like 30-60 min to make 30-40 moves.) Now playing someone with a 5 hour limit vs. someone who has a 30 min limit isn't fair either but that's about what we have in AO (and in all MMORPG that have this enormous leveling treadmill.)

Is it cheating if you get to play 24/7 and someone else gets only a few hours a week? Are you sure? It can certainly feel like it.

Again, how does it really hurt you to have someone buy a bunch of credits from Funcom? I think the player earned it, he paid for it with real money he earned someplace else.

And an extra 200 mil in the economy happens everyday in AO. Where do the credits come from? Thin air. You think there is a certain limit to total credits in the game so if we reach that limit then stores will stop paying for your stuff or mobs stop dropping money? No way! Just like the US banking system can create money, AO does the same. (WTH do Leets carry credits on them?)

Unlike in UO, that 200 mil will just disappear quickly, the ppl who bought this will buy up all the stuff they need in the stores and poof 200 mil becomes worth 2 mil (i.e. the resale value of the yalm, weps, armor, ncu's, implants, nanos etc. that they bought.)

Yeah, maybe AO needs to introduce wear and tear on items so they go away after awhile like in UO. I can see it now, the total number of QL 200 Vektor shotguns just grows and grows.

Please take an economics class. I beg you.

Creation of money without work makes the money have no value.

Do you understand that?



Do you understand that the money is not 'created' it is AWARDED for the 'work' of completing a mission. Killing a monster etc.


Do you understand that if credits were spawned then credits would have NO VALUE.

Do you not see that AO has a money issue as is?

In AO there is an unlimited ammount of credits and items. Thats why the economy is always in massive freaky inflation.

Nevermind the HUGE income difference between a lvl 1 and a lvl 200.

Spawning credits would ruin ANY GAME.

Thats why duping is such a big issue. It totaly devaluates the items.


And no...the 200Mil will never go away.

I only SELL to terminals. I buy nothing from terms but maps and heal kits. Everything else I get from players.

The other players function similarly. Thus the money never leaves the players hands, it just changes them.

The 200 Mil would NEVER 'disapear'. Thats why lvl 5's buy armor for 10 mil.

[_______Revolutionary]

Originally posted by FileNotFound



Spawning credits would ruin ANY GAME.

Thats why duping is such a big issue. It totaly devaluates the items.

Exactly right...

BTW..has anyone read the full article from www.unknowplayer.com? Including the ICQ logs and emails....there is talk in there of stacks of duped items and credits. At one point it mentions "30K symbio-graft:armor
megaboosts"
Does anyone out there think that while it is debateable was to whether selling game items in RL is right or wrong, in this case it is wrong because these items where duped/exploited? In the case of Blacksnow, they deserved to be banned, they directly violated the EUCLA that they have to accept in order to play the game. These guys need to crash and burn bigtime because they greedy.

[Autocratt]

I AM an economics major and obviously you are not!

So when the government prints money it has no value because they didn't earn it? What kinda of crap is that?

All economies prosper by creating money. Ever hear of the money supply? M1, M2, M3? WTH do they mean? Er expanding the money supply?

The Federal Reserve can create money simply by buying treasury securities. Or how about when the Fed lends billions to banks (as lender of last resort.) Do you think they actually have a bank account where the money is sitting? No, the Federal Reserve (and all central banks for that matter) are good for it, nuff said.

Oh no, boo hoo! Call up your congressman, the Federal Reserve didn't earn it! The US Mint has to stop printing money!

If the money supply does not grow, your economy suffers.

Any real economics major will tell you there is a money supply in AO too. Instead of a central bank we have Funcom and they create money by: A) dropping credits as loot and B) buying your stuff in shops. And Funcom gets rid of money by selling your stuff in the shops. So there is a check and balance here, not perfect by any means. Just like a real economy, if you can grow it (i.e. the playerbase) you can print more money and inflation will not incur.

So if Funcom can grow the playerbase, it can certainly sell the credits without harming the economy. UO has a problem as gold found as loot is never eliminated from the game (except the few NPC vendors). So a house used to cost 40K gold now cost 2mil because all this gold keeps getting dropped as loot.

People, we are not taking about duping or exploits. We are all in agreement, we hate it.

It is whether Funcom should serve the needs of those people who want to pay for stuff instead.

[___________xenomorph]

Originally posted by cson


Yeah, ok, that was a childish comment. And no, I never said NTs were Gods, but for some odd reason, NTs think that everyone else think that they're Gods. I know they have trouble in PvM at high levels, especially if they don't have a shotty. And yes I do hold a grudge, and I want to kill all the NTs.

Maybe I will start up a soldier from scratch. I actually didn't play as much as I wanted to for the last couple of months because I recommended some very difficult graduate level courses for my girlfriend. I thought this would give her more time to study, and give me more time to play AO. Unfortunately, it backfired. I ended up speding a lot of time helping her with her homework.

I have to come up with a new plan so I can play more AO when she goes back to school next quarter. Yes, I am addicted to AO. I try to play as much as I can. Unfortunately, I can't, and I'm jealous that every else has more time than I do to play AO.

Why the hell am I telling you this? Ok, time to go home and play AO.

We have one thing in common we both hate omni and hate omni NT's even more =)

I used to have the same problem with my x-girlfriend. We are seperated now because of other reasson's and I am happy, hehe all the video games I want . I see why you rather pay for a chr than work on one.

I don't know what advice to give you on getting her out off your hair every woman is a different type off beast in their owne manner. Some guys get lucky and date or marry a girl that loves video games, I hope the day comes when I meet one

[Cthonian]

Sorry to say it, but this suggestion is just bullsh*t

If you search for my posts here in forums,
you will find, i never used such word for any suggestion before,
but this time i just can not find other word !

First of all, it's RPG; making game money outside of the game
makes the roleplay absolutely sensless imo.
Sure you can try to turn it in RP by saying:
"one comes on Rubi-Ka as poor man, other as reach man,
thats why some character starts with 200 mio";
"also one, who comes reach on Rubi-Ka can pay for skill development,
even the best skill, other ppl. need to work many months to obtain"
But the day AO story changes in this way will be the day i cancel my account.

This game is about equal chances in game environment only.
The game should not be mixed with RL, thats why most of us play games:
just to escape the RL and enjoy different world;
when i play a game, i want to forget RL for a while;
Take this feeling away, and you have lost me as cusomer,
as well as ( i'm sure ) many others too.
Also the easy it would be to get a "super"-char just buy paying RL money,
the more players will be in game just to "own", not to be part of other world,
to "live" in this world.
And how can be a lvl 200 char a part of Rubi-Ka world,
while he did not do anything ingame for it ?
It's just a fictive character for me, not really existing in this environment,
in fact even destroying this environment just by being there.

Not everyone, who have not much time to play
neccessery have that much money to pay for computer game.
I have no respect for ppl. buying credits or account on ebay or want to buy it from FC:
why they do it ?
i also don't have much time to play, play since october, only lvl 70 char + few minors.
Do i worry about not being lvl 200 yet ? Hell, no !
I play to explore the world, and to explore this world how it was intended by devs,
i trust them, that this is the best way ( and anyway i have an advantage, i can enjoy it longer
then some ppl. who play 10 hours/day; keep in mind i probably also don't get bored longer,
stay paying customer longer )
Buying credits, items, and especially whole characters on ebay is just cheating for me.
And you know what? They buy mostly to "own", to "own" these,
who they "own" already in RL !
Let this game be different, fresh start for everyone,
equal chances for everyone !

That some ppl. CAN not play as much as others is just another BS:
everyone, who play much PAY for it in one or other way,
some even get in real trouble, other just miss thier chances
to gain more money, learn something, or just some fun in RL.
But i hope most of them play much not just to "own" in game,
but because they love this game so much, they sacrifice other things;
and THESE ppl. should be awarded,
and can be proud to be *something* in this world,
to call it thier own world...

I would even ask to change rules so that it would be more difficult
to buy AO accounts/money/items on ebay
1) The player can change his bank connection, but not the person
who the credit card belongs too.
That would make neccessary for buyer to pay to the owner again and again;
even paying for a year - what's after this year if he still want to play,
and the firs account owner isn't there around anymore ?
2a) There should be a limit for money the char can own on lower levels;
a level 5 char dont need 100 mio
2b) There should be a limit for QL of items, a low level char can own;
especially after OE patch there is no use of QL 200 sword for lvl 10 char
2c) Make some unique items higher level then now, other items nodrop
( these, which can be sold for 100 mio and more )

Ppl. who want all "toys" in the game available right from the start -
are even not worth talking about imo.
The only real problem i see is PvP. That is the point where i always tryed to defend
casual gamers, and will fight for it as long as i play MOORPG:
if someone "can not"/"dont want" ( what is the same ) to play a lot,
he should not be "owned" by these who play a lot.
It's not an argument "just to stay away from PvP zones",
as casual gamer he could be limited to non-PvP zones for the rest of his AO-life,
especially with gimped ( not neccessary by himself ) char.
It's enough as new player he have to fear mobs, others kill easily and laugth about it,
"waste" time ( i hope he dont really count it as "waste of time" in RL, say just in character )
to walk somewhere, others need 1/10 time to fly,
look at all these cool things, he can have only in few months.
That is all ok, being a patient player behind the screen he should not be jealous about it,
finaly they worked hard for it.
( exept someone really laugh at him just cuz he is lowbie,
but this would be even again game rules, i hope ? )
Also to see friends, he used to play with, all playing with high level chars can be a bit frustrating,
but again - a patient player would accept it and still see it as fair, one can find other friends,
also friends among these, who also don't level fast !

It's very different in PvP, since there ppl. are just forced
either to play much more then they can/want ( i mean here the ballance,
so they play in the first place to enjoy Rubi-Ka world,
just in the second may be to become higher and higher char;
also note "become higher char" not "own higer char"(probably just to "own"),
that the difference between "living" in game (RPG) or "to beat the game"/"own" in the game ),
or to buy accounts on ebay.
The posting(s) of cson show exactly the problem with PvP
in case of casual gamer or when weapon/skill/profession is gimped.
One is almost willing to pay 2k $ mostly to "pay back". Is it fun anymore?
i refuse to see it as fun,
it is the point where i would better leave the game :/
There are at least 3 possible solutions, which dont make the game
more unrealistic imo
1) splitting in 2 servers with different rules ( more and less PvP )
2) civilian/military application which is expensive and take few real day to switsch the status,
but set to "duel mode only"
( there are a lot of areas, where you can not fight already, of can not fight just your own side,
or even neutrals, who can not attack but can be attacked - so would not be much more "unrealistic" )
3) The same as (2) with difference, that "civilians" can be attacked,
but the attacker ( or this civilian if he starts the fight ) becomes a huge penalty,
may be hostile even in own cities for a while etc.

Quantar MP, 70, Omni, RK1
( finaly got my Neleb's robe heh )