A counter part to roots

**____________Xeraseus** · Mar 17th, 2002, 16:48:20

OK, first off, I'm a trader. And yes, I root like hell and love to run into MA's. I started this thread on an idea for a sort of counter root. Melee profs (with the exception of enforcers with their rage) are really stumped with roots unless they are exploiting and breaking roots with coffee making inexperience. I personally don't think that debuffing yourself to break roots should be consdiered an exploit, just a tactic. But that has been labeled that and some avoid it because of that label. Here is what I propose.

I think MAs and Adventurers should have a nano called some thing like "personal gravitation" where their target is pulled to them. It would be a bit like a counter to a root. I think this would help the melee profs who can't "legally" break roots on their own. and make it like roots in that if damage is done to the target its broken.

I've never played a melee prof. I've played fixer and trader. Both of which have great roots. I just feel it'd be a bit more balanced if the adventurers and MA's had something of their own to defend themselves.

Xeraseus

p.s.- since I've never played either of these profs (adv and MA) I don't know if they possibly may have a nano like an enforcer's rage which breaks roots. If they do I must have been fighting some pretty dumb MAs and Adv's.

anyway feedback requested

**Tsuneko** · Mar 18th, 2002, 01:03:03

Yes, this is a greay idea, as I am a 126 MA and will not duel a rooting class anymore, period (although I can kill them about 1/3 of the time)
I can easily tear down all melee classes quickly, but that's not my problem.
Also, this nano should ONLY be able to be used if you are rooted or something along those lines.
Great Idea!

**_______________Garzu** · Mar 18th, 2002, 01:32:02

Nah, that idea sucks. Of course this suggestion comes from a Trader who feels sorry for his victims... He tries to show he wants other profs to have a chance against them.

We all know Traders are totally UBER, nerf the trader, dont need to boost all profs so much that they can compete with them, that way FC saves time and money, and in the end the players will be happy.

BTW, the nano you propose is totally uber, to pull ppl towards you... thats better than roots.

They can get a root breaker, which serves as a root breaker only, it should have long execution/recharge time, and should cost lots of nano to cast.

**____________Xeraseus** · Mar 18th, 2002, 03:44:32

Well as you know, we're not the only ones with roots, so its not just a problem some of the melee classes have with traders, its roots. You can't nerf roots, that's just too important to some classes. As for feeling sorry for the meleers, I guess I kinda do, but that doesn't stop me from jumping at a chance to fight them. I wouldn't even bring this up if it was just a disadvantage, but if you start an attack on one of the above mentioned profs from a distance and know how to use roots correctly, there is absolutely nothing they can do, unless they use the self debuff "exploit".

As for the type of nano, maybe you're right Garzu, it's probably more logical to just give them something similar to Rage, but I was just trying to introduce an original idea. If MAs and Advs are given something in the future as an answer to roots, I'd bet it'd be what you said. Although I'd hate it myself, a "gravity" nano would be cool and would bring more dimensions to PvP tactics.

Xeraseus

**Oberan** · Mar 19th, 2002, 15:49:46

The free movement nano line should be extended and prevent roots from being cast upon the person buffed by it

(after all its FREE MOVEMENT!!)

**___________xenomorph** · Mar 19th, 2002, 15:59:17

I have a lvl 40 MA and I know for a fact that they do have a self buff that breaks roots (hint its in the general store). it's just a matter if they play around with there buffs long enough to know which one it is. Adv I havent played so I don't know if they do or not.

**Arinia** · Mar 19th, 2002, 18:38:08

Rage is broken and doesn't break roots anymore.

At any rate, yes, a general root breaker is needed for MAs. MAs are very very fast (teal run speed?) and having a long recharge on it wouldn't be a big deal.

As for enforcers, fix rage. It's a great balance issue, when you think of it. 22 second runbuff so when we break that root, we're fast and can get into range and get a hit or 3 before we're rooted again. It SOMETIMES works that way.

**assassimon** · Mar 20th, 2002, 19:49:11

Would rock to pull the zoning soldiers 40 m away from a zone, can you even imagine how much they would whine?

IMO a much better solution for roots are to make it a long attack time and a long recharge time, this make chain nuking impossible and it will fix a big part of the problem.

**________________cson** · Mar 20th, 2002, 20:00:47

Long attack time would just be negated by high Nano Init. But a 8 second recharge time on all the roots would be cool - for an MA anyways.

**___________xenomorph** · Mar 20th, 2002, 20:15:08

Roots already have a 3sec recharge time and cost alot on nano, they are fine just the way they are. since half the time they don't work, I can't count how many times in pvm and pvp I have rooted something and it would have the root effects but could still move around.

How about fixing nano resist then it wouldnt be that big of a deal, then anyone who has keeped it up to date wouldn't have to worry about a rooting class, or even a debuffing class.

**Arinia** · Mar 20th, 2002, 20:21:46

How about fixing nano resist then it wouldnt be that big of a deal, then anyone who has keeped it up to date wouldn't have to worry about a rooting class, or even a debuffing class.

HOORAY!

I heartily agree. I agree, and I have DARK blue nano resist. IP spent there would be well worth it if it actually worked.

**_______________Garzu** · Mar 20th, 2002, 23:07:14

Originally posted by cson
Long attack time would just be negated by high Nano Init. But a 8 second recharge time on all the roots would be cool - for an MA anyways.

Maybe that would be a possibility in the future... But now, as it is with NTs... I cannot accept it, we suck to much, and need a big boost before FC even touches roots, its not only agains meleers we use them, I also use them to run away from soldiers and traders, and to defend my self against pets, I simply cant survive it, to remove roots as a viable option for the NT in pvp now, will not at all be a good time to do it, but as I said, perhaps in the future when we do best dmg in the game, as we should.

**assassimon** · Mar 20th, 2002, 23:22:55

It's no problem to use it when you run away from soldiers and traders, with long recharge you would still be able to run without a problem, but you can't chain cast it on anyone so they are worthless and don't even have a chance to attack.

**________nyarlathotep** · Mar 21st, 2002, 00:13:08

why not just remove roots from PvP all together? most people wont duel a rooting prof with the saying "no rooting" anyway. so why not just remove the NTs only usefull tactic and make us even more gimped....

FIX THIS GARBAGE PvP SYSTEM!!!!

**________________cson** · Mar 21st, 2002, 00:22:37

To be complete honest with you, high level MAs are picking up ranged weapons. With LLS and Movement Predictors, the range can be brougt to close to 40 m. There are quite a few weapons to choose from - a lot of fast weapons with piss poor damage, but insanely high crits.

Then again, high lvl NTs (Gunnandahalf) are picking up Nova Flows, so it'll be interesting.

**_______________Garzu** · Mar 21st, 2002, 01:41:03

Originally posted by Azzazzimon
It's no problem to use it when you run away from soldiers and traders, with long recharge you would still be able to run without a problem, but you can't chain cast it on anyone so they are worthless and don't even have a chance to attack.

THere is no way an NT can stand toe to toe with ANY melee profession as it is for us now. I can see yoiur problem, but I dont want to give my roots away to make other professions better agains NTs, specially not becuase we already totally suck.

I can in the future if FC boosts the NT greatly see that it is needed, but NT roots must stay unchange until then.

The only way an NT can survive in PvP and kill ppl is with roots, and chaincast it, take that away, and we are totally useless in pvp, against ALL professions, not only soldiers, docs and traders + ranged advs + MPs (depends on weapon) and crats. With roots I got at least a chance vs meleers, without chaincasting roots, you have to admit the NTs has nothing at all to do in a pvp area.

Again I say, maybe after some high tech tweaking of the NT profession, then maybe something can be done with (from my point of view) NT roots. I do not speak for the otehr professions, maybe the crat is a damn tough opponent chain castin root while his pet bashes you, but I dont know.

**___________Zeroshift** · Mar 21st, 2002, 01:57:49

I don't really like the idea of a counter root for two reasons:

1. The people that have roots, have them for a reason. Traders, NT's, agents, fixers... Weak little sh1ts. They have to keep them at a distance for a reason.

2. Counter roots would throw the balance of power in the other direction, making enforcers and MA's PvP gods because their opponents can't take the punishment they can.

I would much rather see nano resistance become viable.

Higher nano resist should also reduce the time you spend rooted. So even if you don't resist it, it's not a total waste. This would have the side effect of making high level roots worthwhile, because right now there is no reason to waste half you nano bar rooting something for 2 minutes when the same effect can be accomplishe with a couple level 1 newbie roots.

**___________Obergeist** · Mar 21st, 2002, 02:50:47

Under the current happy joy luck system, most of the skills that would make a differance, don't. Nano resist, parry, evades(against crit buffs and llts :P).
Heh.

I can't wait until I see the effects of the 14.2 patch. Agents at 100 can attain around 1.2k in conceal. With implants and buffs, everyone else might get around 6-700 perception.

There are no weak classes in PvP currently. It's all about crits in the end. The magic answer is... shotgun.

*puke*

**____________Kikamiro** · Mar 21st, 2002, 12:16:36

LOL

Did he just call Traders weak?

". The people that have roots, have them for a reason. Traders, NT's, agents, fixers... Weak little sh1ts. They have to keep them at a distance for a reason. "

**Turin** · Mar 21st, 2002, 22:22:53

I think MAs and Adventurers should have a nano called some thing like "personal gravitation" where their target is pulled to them. It would be a bit like a counter to a root. I think this would help the melee profs who can't "legally" break roots on their own. and make it like roots in that if damage is done to the target its broken.

docs have one already. Its called "Epsilon Purge" and it doesnt work. They should fix the nanos they already have that should do this for people before they add more. As for the breaking of roots, well, all I can say is, if dot'ing and debuffing are expliots, then youd better /petition if your root me, because i will take full advantage of this, and run like hell as soon as I break your root.

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