Overequipping and the IP reset: A follow-up

[siriuslea]

Overequiping can create diversity but like the real world individuality is only good until it starts interfering with the rights of others. Many have spoken eloquently re the problems created by overequipping and how balance between classes is difficult or impossible to achieve with OE. So since we all fight the same enemies and even each other, IMO leveling the playfield a little will improve the game. I don't want to 'win' a game that gives me an advantage over my opponent that is impossible to overcome... what fun is that?

[Grupert]

Originally posted by Hermione
Overequiping can create diversity but like the real world individuality is only good until it starts interfering with the rights of others. Many have spoken eloquently re the problems created by overequipping and how balance between classes is difficult or impossible to achieve with OE. So since we all fight the same enemies and even each other, IMO leveling the playfield a little will improve the game. I don't want to 'win' a game that gives me an advantage over my opponent that is impossible to overcome... what fun is that?

Rights? What rights? Explain please.

[Greenhawk]

Originally posted by Scumbug
(posting this only in a few threads I've recently been active on)

Date of registration 2001-06-28 08:30:23 UTC
Account status Open until 2002-04-06
Subscription is cancelled
Next billing Not scheduled

It was mostly a great 9 months
but I've made my feelings clear re: funcoms attitude;
pandering to newbs/children, dumbing down the game,
and just an increasingly anti-player approach to
extending subscriptions at the expense of fun.

remember that Simpsons episode where Homer calls the
1-900 football tips hotline wanting to know which team will win,
and the recording on the other end starts speaking very slowly
"according.. to .. the ...forecast... the .. temperature... will... be..."
"Yes, hurry up!"
.... the. . .. wind. ... is... coming...... from ...... a........ north.. easterly....
direction .... and...."
"Cmon! Cmon! Don't you know this is costing me money?"

That's basically what I feel AO is turning into.

So I've made the big decision and hit the cancel button.

I've been here a long time, many will be glad to see me go,
but I hope I've helped more of you than I've pissed off.

Scumbug, signing off.

Can I have your stuff? (kidding)

Honestly, I'm sad to see anyone go... especially before the damn patch is even out. Look, whether you think this patch will solve world hunger or whether you think it is the end of mankind, let's please wait until it is actually IMPLEMENTED and then see.

Let me remind you all that they were making some HORRIFIC tuning changes back in September/October, which later were reversed. I left then because of those things. I returned earlier this year when I heard the game had become less sucky. Where I was having nothing remotely resembling fun anymore back then, I am having a blast now (mostly).

Just stick it out, folks... let's wait and see and THEN *****, ok?

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Carrah

Sure. But what difference does it make if you sit there in that room debuffed? Do mobs run out and conscript additional forces while you are rooted? Do they barricate the entrances? Do the mob engineers cast slayer droids? Do soldiers setup cannons?

No. All that happens is that you waste 3 minutes of game play sitting in that stupid empty room waiting for the buffs to wear off. How does this add to the game play for most of the population? Remember, if you want to RP, you can always sit there and do nothing. Not even heal. I prefer a way to remove the debuff so I can continue playing and having fun.

Okay, just to make sure we're both straight on this:
Ability to remove debuff = Good
Debuff removing itself if caster killed = Bad?

Originally posted by Carrah

No, they are not. Roots hinder the movement of the oponent. If you root a melee class and get out of range, you can kill them with impunity with your ranged weapon. These classes need a way to break roots. If you stack a dot with root, and get out of the zone, you will be able to take out the ranged classes as well.

That makes for more imbalance.

I know my roots usually break the minute I sneeze on the target. Or I haven't tried it lately. When I use my roots solo (trader AE and single target), I use them to isolate mobs. Never to kite. In team situations, it's the same thing. Keep the mobs at bay while the team concentrates on one mob. In missions it's too difficult, and sometimes too chancy with mobs opening doors and looking out, to attempt to get outside of range. In teams, things sometimes get too chaotic to attempt Root N Shoot. The only things I've seen it work against with a little consistancy are other players.

Originally posted by Carrah

Personally I'd recommend that when SWG comes out, you stay here and continue to suggest improvements to AO. Flattery will get you nowhere.

Oh, and I forgot to add these:

and

Ah yes, the savior of the MMORPG genre. Everquest is famous for finally achieving some semblance of balance then releasing an expansion to throw everything off kilter. I've read the propaganda on SWG (that's all it is to me until it's something more than pretty pictures). And there are balance nightmares and pitfalls in just what Verant is promising.

[Loretta]

Originally posted by Kuroshio

I know my roots usually break the minute I sneeze on the target. Or I haven't tried it lately. When I use my roots solo (trader AE and single target), I use them to isolate mobs. Never to kite. In team situations, it's the same thing. Keep the mobs at bay while the team concentrates on one mob. In missions it's too difficult, and sometimes too chancy with mobs opening doors and looking out, to attempt to get outside of range. In teams, things sometimes get too chaotic to attempt Root N Shoot. The only things I've seen it work against with a little consistancy are other players.

Then there is no problem with roots, right? They don't work at all? What are you arguing about then?

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Carrah


Then there is no problem with roots, right? They don't work at all? What are you arguing about then?

What I was saying is that I don't think roots are intended to be used against the target you're currently fighting. They're to be used against the whoever is next after you killl your current target.

Roots in AO are almost purely crowd control. The times I've seen someone root a target and start killing from range has mostly been in PvP fights I've witnessed. And usually the target is new to PvP in AO. The newbie insists on chasing down someone he can't catch when the direction 180 degrees opposite is so much more inviting.

[siriuslea]

Well it is a game... so I'm talking about the right to a fair game and in this case a fair fight

[Grupert]

Originally posted by Hermione
Well it is a game... so I'm talking about the right to a fair game and in this case a fair fight

Heavy OE'ing will still be in the game after 14.2 for those that pvp, may not be what it is now, but it will still be there.
So, fair fight? Depending on your POV, it will be, or will not be.

[_____________Anglais]

Originally posted by Kuroshio

The times I've seen someone root a target and start killing from range has mostly been in PvP fights I've witnessed.

That would be when one person runs into a 25% zone, roots someone, runs out and as soon as he's safe his friend dumps 3k damage on you in less than a second, right?

Now THAT'S PvP...

A.

[__________CorwynRose]

Gaute: Thanks for the articles....explains LOTS....well documented.

FC: thanks for finally addressing this issue.

Players: i find it facinating that people keep saying "It will make the gap from 80-100 so hard" and "you don't know what yer talking about" etc etc. The engineer that complained that he had trouble soloing 2 yellows with a self cast bot...and had to flee once....

the gap from 80-100 is SUPPOSED to be hard....and anyone OVER 100 will, lets face it, be able to self equip within 80% easily enough....a 132 wrangle ain't much when the reqs are in the 700's.....self buffing to 80% gets easier after 100. most agents etc at lev 125-135 can usually self buff into any rifle in the game. same with enf's with their beams/hammers etc etc.

as for the engy pet thing, not being able to solo multi reds etc....get over it....the rest of us have to use care and caution, sometimes fleeing for our lives on a regular basis. Deal.

This oe thing really only hits the massively twinked chars under level 50. come on....tell me you can't keep up 80% on yer stuff at 70....20% is a HUGE gap. but a 132 wrangle, with the assorted other buffs for the specials makes a massive difference at level 12-50....sometimes quadrupling the ql of the weapon. same with essences/ic etc to get armor on...no big deal at lev 70-100+....major deal at 20.

so if yer keepin a char at a specific level JUST to kill people with....that all you use it for is pvp and NEVER intend to level, as you already have it tricked out...then yes, this patch will devestate you. and if not? then don't worry. challenge makes the game interresting.....doing 100% missions and having NO chance of death short of zombies or crashes is silly. Take the challenge and try it.

as for those who cancelled their accounts....goodbye to bad rubbish

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Kuroshio
I don't think roots are intended to be used against the target you're currently fighting.

LOL, you cant be serious... Thats the only thing I do with my roots... And now you think it wasnt intended? Bah, lol, no further comment.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Garzu


LOL, you cant be serious... Thats the only thing I do with my roots... And now you think it wasnt intended? Bah, lol, no further comment.

Dead serious. But you've proven your ability to see only what you want to see many times, so I'll explain it for everyone else.

Look at the way roots work. They hold the target until the target receives damage. They don't prevent the target from fighting back against anything within it's range. They don't last very long even if nothing attackes the rooted target. The way they work makes it so that attempting to the Root N Shoot tactic extends the length of the fight tremendously and almost impossible to do indoors.

But all of the characteristics of how roots work make them ideal for team and solo crowd control. They allow the caster to separate individuals from groups, reducing incoming damage. Since the rooted mob isn't the target, the root lasts it's entire duration which gives the caster time to finish whatever mob they're targetting. In teams, it allows crowd control professions to calm the incoming mobs buying the team more time to finish killing the single target.

Now which scenario for the roots works better: attempting to root and reroot a target to keep it out of range or rooting additional targets to buy time to concentrate on a single target?

[_________________Zuh]

I use roots and snare a lot (I am a Fixer) and know many way to use them. You have 3 main line of use:

Root & shoot

Crowed control

Retreat


You use only root and shoot, you can. But don't tell others it is the only possibility. To root & shoot, you just have to use your cheapest root in NP, because it will have the same effect as you will break it quickly. You can use it well and I am very often succesfull against hard clsc mobs (of course this is no use against ranged mobs). You can also chain cast roots when you are in team to keep the mob at distance.

As Kuroshio explained, you can root mobs so you can focus on only one individual. You can even cast again your roots if needed. This is very good and very important when pulling. You wanna pull one mob, you have 3 on you (hey bad luck day : ) ). You can root the 2 others the time you need to finish the first one. Here you have to use your best root.

You can also retreat when you have far to much mobs on you. The best for this purpose are aoe snares, because you and/or the team can outrun mobs very quickly and then most of the time mobs will loose aggro. I don't know really about aoe roots but you should have similar way of use.


That said, please consider every use and not only your own before complaining.

This is as valuable for Garzu than Kuroshio.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Zuh
I use roots and snare a lot (I am a Fixer) and know many way to use them. You have 3 main line of use:

Root & shoot

Crowed control

Retreat

...

That said, please consider every use and not only your own before complaining.

This is as valuable for Garzu than Kuroshio.

I believe there are more than a few nanoformulas that originally had an intended use and developed into the uses we've forced on them. Or they had more than one intended use, with some of those uses being easier to implement than others. Root nanos are one such case.

Viewing how roots currently work, the most effective use of them is crowd control and retreat. Things like mission layouts, wandering monsters, and mob combat range (often equal or longer than the max range of the player) work against using roots in a Root N Shoot scenario. It can be done, yes but only through investment on the players behalf to do so well. Investments such as IP in nano init to reduce execution time in order to chain cast them or range extending items to increase the distance between the player and the mob.

The trader ransack/deprive nanos (back on topic) fall into this category as well. Given their duration and resist rates, it seems likely the intended use was for the trader to build a 'skill buffer' to trade to his team members in combat to help increase the team's effectiveness. Trader's further adapted them to a defensive nature, using them to temporarily prevent others from using their most effective abilities in combat. I 'force' my ransack/deprives into another use when soloing: to give myself a temporary boost in my weapon skills to increase average damage/crits. Having to recast every other fight and face the high chance of resists on the ransacks isn't the easiest thing to do (yellow mobs sometimes resisting up to 5 consecutive executions of a ransack I can cast within the bonuses to nanoskills a deprive gives me). Post 14.2, the ransack/deprives will mutate into a way for traders to maintain an OE status...if they want to ladder constantly before every fight and maintain those divests/plunders throughout the hunt.

So basically like Zuh said, a person's own use of a nano may not be the only use...or the best one availible.

[_________________Zuh]

Agree


Also root & shoot is easier than it seems, and still have a good risk vs reward. And I have never raised my nano init because it cost a lot and anyway, Fixer roots have a very low casting time.

Our first root in line 'Halt Fight' have only a 1.01 casting time and a 3.05 recharge time. By the name and the properties of this nano, it seems to me it have been dedicated to root and shoot strategie. The root effect last for 21s only and you will almost always break it before this 21s. More than that, I can sometime make 2 succeful hits, a burst, another hit and still don't break the nano. Some other times I will break it with my first shoot, and some times it will be resisted. Good risk vs reward it seems.

[Fairin]

humm i really don't have all kinds of numbers to throw at you for my opinion but all i can say is that when i stared playing this game no less then 8 days ago. The first thing that sprang to view is how diverse the characters in AO are. Now i may not be a veteran but i do know from my limited experience that OE is in my view one of the funnest parts of this game and was large part of me deciding to not cancel the trial in the first place. I really don't think that there is anyone around who doesn't enjoy puting on an uber gun and going to go kill stuff well at least i enjoy it. i am Just saying that it is not only vets that dislike this idea but me a noobie doesn't like it either.

Now again on diversity comeing last from jumpgate (shudders) where everyone from lvl 26 up had the same ship the same guns the same exact equipment and everyone just went around killing stuff i think diversity is good.

I also think that if someone can go out with some drive and OE his character then more power to them and their OE character. I mean really why shouldn't they?? a balance issue you say well if i can do i am sure everyone else can to. They only need show some desire.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by RobotWolf
humm i really don't have all kinds of numbers to throw at you for my opinion but all i can say is that when i stared playing this game no less then 8 days ago. The first thing that sprang to view is how diverse the characters in AO are. Now i may not be a veteran but i do know from my limited experience that OE is in my view one of the funnest parts of this game and was large part of me deciding to not cancel the trial in the first place. I really don't think that there is anyone around who doesn't enjoy puting on an uber gun and going to go kill stuff well at least i enjoy it. i am Just saying that it is not only vets that dislike this idea but me a noobie doesn't like it either.

Now again on diversity comeing last from jumpgate (shudders) where everyone from lvl 26 up had the same ship the same guns the same exact equipment and everyone just went around killing stuff i think diversity is good.

I also think that if someone can go out with some drive and OE his character then more power to them and their OE character. I mean really why shouldn't they?? a balance issue you say well if i can do i am sure everyone else can to. They only need show some desire.

Then if it's diversity you want, you should be against OE. Some weapons simply work better when overequipped than others. That's why people are running around with Vektor shotguns or 2 handed hammers all the time. They give the most bang when overequipped.

[Fairin]

well there is only so far you can OE right now (right?) and becides that there is a mess of different vectors and or hammers and i have observed that perhaps only 25% use vektors and i doubt they are the same.

i guess what i am saying is i want my cake and i wish to eat it to.

IE i want diversity and i want to keep my UBER gun (evil laugh)

but as i said i really don't know i am new but i do like the OE feature the way it is none of this 20% mumbojumbo.

(fears the hords of peeps asking traders to join teams so they can get constant wrangles to keep thier over 20% OE guns)

[_________Master Wong]

Someone may calling me a flame ok but i not care.I reading all the posts,everyone ok, and i know that feelings are from the true.

But i cannot understanding why some of you always call me names,when i speak from the true also ok.

We all wanting different things,some like it very much,others no they don't ok, but what i wish to see is that the game gets better ok, and i really thinking after some time of thought that over all this change is for the better ok.

Yes,many other problems worng i knowing this ok, but after this changing patch, more improvements will coming ok.
And the game will always continuing to improving ok.

So i just wanting to say this ok,Many of you have strong anga,and don't want this changing ok, i understanding this very much ok, but looking at the larger picture if the game continuing to improving all in all this is for the good of the game ok.

I am NOT a gimp ok

please dont saying Wong you Gimp when i playing AO ok

Wong bows too you


Wong2002 31solitus neutral soldier
rubikas 1 ok
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Wongsto Level 60th Warlock 7th Hammer
Wongsti Level 57 Templar 7th Hammer- EQ
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Wongsoo Level 50th lurkeen Ranger
Merlin/Daoc
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WongMasterofPeace 151pks -7deaths 2200/1200 spar ratio( 5 hearts)
Graal2002
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HongKongWong 121 kills-797 deaths
NO MANS LAND
Infantry
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King Wong Ruler Realm 44
Dominion of Wong--Race Halfling
5,567 Land Networth 1,099,987
Realm 44
Dominion
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U are my bes fren

[Lazz]

ok