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Thread: Overequipping and the IP reset: A follow-up

  1. #41

    Thumbs down

    Cz, Cosmik, Gaute: Just wanted you to know that...

    Account status Open until 2002-04-11
    Subscription is cancelled




    Yours

    DrCam
    General
    Omni Shadow Ops

  2. #42

    Re: Overequipping and the IP reset: A follow-up

    Originally posted by Gaute
    An example: Let's say you acquire a gun with the requirements 300 in Pistol skill and 200 in Flingshot skill. The rule is then, that whichever skill gets below the 80%, 60%, 40% (etc.) of requirements will yield an over-equipping penalty. Just to explain the math here, 80% below requirements is the same as 20% over-equipped! I hope that is clear. We do not measure percentage above your skill.

    Let us say your character has 280 in Pistol skill and 180 in Flingshot skill. Using the formula mentioned, you are not over-equipped per our definition. Pistol skill is at 93% and Flingshot skill at 90%. That is no problem. Now, if either your Pistol skill drops below 240 or your Flingshot skill below 160, you'll be in trouble. This means that ONE skill is all it takes.

    The highest over-equipping is also the rule for the gun. If your Pistol skill drops to 195 (35% OE) and your Flingshot skill to 100 (50% OE), your Flingshot pulls you down to a 50% penalty. Luckily for us, the lowest skill (the special attacks are normally that) are not included in the most aggressive Trader de-buffs, for instance...
    Huh?

    Cz, please explain this.

    Let me use an example:

    Nova flow- requires asst. rifle, burst, fling, ranged energy. Now, Gaute is saying that "all it takes" is for one requirement to be below 20% to have a penalty. Again, does this mean that if each requirement is below 20% that you get 4 penalties? effectively reducing the gun by 100% (25% times 4).

    On the other hand, he seems to be saying that you only need one skill to drop below the 20% threshold to have a penalty -- yet, the penalty is decided by the highest skill --- ?? This doesn't seem to make sense. Another example:

    Example: asst rifle, fling, burst are all within the 20%. Ranged energy is below. Obviously, you get 25% penalty -- or do you? since your other skills are within the 20% threshold. If the skill loss is based on the highest of your skills, does this mean that because three skills are within the 20% that you will continue having 100% damage from your gun?

    Example2: asst rifle, fling are all within the 20%. Burst and ranged energy are below. NOW, what he seems to be saying is that you get ONE penalty determined by the higher of the skills below the 20% threshold. So, if asst. rifle is 60% below requirements -- but burst is only 22% -- you only get the 25% reduction. However, reading his article literally -- again --- you get no reduction because both asst. rifle and fling are above the 20% threshold????

    As you can see, I am confused. Can you please explain this as the original post is confusing.

    Thanks.

    -Mach

  3. #43

    yeah yeah

    I agree with all of the OE but exept the pets, leave the pets as it is and ill be happy. please dont let the innocent pets suffer for this.
    Piccolo of Storm
    -’Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war’
    -I will not take back my words, that is my way of the ninja!

  4. #44

    Account status

    2001-07-07 03:23:41 UTC
    Account status Open until 2002-04-06
    Subscription is cancelled

    Sorry Cz, enough is enough

    Yours

    Lifedrain
    ( Retired ) General of Security
    Omni Shadow Ops

  5. #45
    You're screwing up guys, screwing up bad.

    If you cut the mob HPs and its too easy, ppl will complain a little, gaine an extra few levels, and you fix it in the next patch.

    If you DON'T cut the mob HPs and cut the overequiping, people WILL get so fustrated before the next patch that they flat out quit.

  6. #46

    Thumbs down ignorance CAN hurt you.

    Sarelron,

    The magority of people playing this game have not one freaking clue what it takes to get over level 100.


    The majority of people playing this game do not understand that this patch WILL screw THEM, not just the "over equipers" they are so concerned about.

    The AVERAGE player is by definition, of AVERAGE intelligence. If Steven Hawking had gone with the general belief of the people around him, he'd not be a world famious scientist.

    It does not mater that the average player is too short sighted to see how this WILL effect them until it's too late. SOME of us DO see the problems are pointing them out NOW.

    At realse the NPC's in this game where roughly on the same hit points as the players. They FAR over compenstated by giving about 3 times the hit points to NPC's, this only made the matter WORSE, not better, because they raised the bar so that past about the mid 90's you HAD to over equip to survive.

    In response to player reponse, players generally dont' like dying repeatedly in even con mission, so players adjusted, and a large number of folks that previously didn't feel it needful to over equip to play the game started doing so to be ABLE to play the game, then FC increased nano formual usage, AC and AGAIN increased hit point of the mob's.

    Mark my words. Any one in the transition between title levels where you get NO ability to raise weapon skills in the 90+ range WILL be screwed by this patch. Those are the levels you MUST over equip to even run 50% mission, that clams down once you get back to being able to increase skills again, BUT becase FC decided long ago to mess over the "average" player by increasing npc difficulty based on the smartest most savy players abilities, you WILL feel the effects of this patch.

    Enjoy your play time it lasts.

  7. #47

    Canceling

    People canceling because of talks about a patch that's 3 patches away. Heh. Meeeeyalatah.

    Sarelron

  8. #48

    show all the OE stats for items in addition to the requires stats

    show all the OE stats for items in addition to the requires stats
    eg:

    SKILL REQ 20% 40% 60% 80%
    pistol 100 80 60 40 20


    Please please please implement this else everyone will have to keep a calculator handy :-(

    KISS

    (keep it simple, stupid)

  9. #49

    Re: Canceling

    Originally posted by Sarelron
    People canceling because of talks about a patch that's 3 patches away. Heh. Meeeeyalatah.

    Sarelron
    Read the article... a few weeks? Heck, I don't wanna let Funcom get more money from me than necessary. If they decide to retract the patch, I can always un-cancel. But I don't think they'll get to their senses and do that...

    DrCam

  10. #50

    Re: Canceling

    Originally posted by Sarelron
    People canceling because of talks about a patch that's 3 patches away. Heh. Meeeeyalatah.

    Sarelron
    heh, what's the point in playing if the game is going to be fscked up Sarelron? :\
    Piccolo of Storm
    -’Cry Havoc and let slip the dogs of war’
    -I will not take back my words, that is my way of the ninja!

  11. #51

    Thumbs up Nice

    Thanks for the new article Guate. It explained a lot more for me, and I really hope it makes other people more comfortable! I know your in a seriously difficult situation having to balance all these changes, I'm glad I don't have your job

    Guate said
    17. Will the over-equipping rules affect monsters as well?

    The short answer is no.

    Monsters actually have different rules for damage than us (the players). You might have noticed, that weapons monsters use determine only a few things: damage type and animation type. Monsters are supposed to be predictable. During the beta-testing phase, we tried to let the monsters inherit the stats of their weapons directly. This resulted in extreme unpredictability; some monsters were very good, some very bad. To average it out, and make monsters more predictable, we control those weapons by using special weapons for the monsters. These "monster weapons" have no requirements.

    The monster will hit for less when it is de-buffed, though.
    You know what, I've just realised - this makes AO a bit more boring! Its too predictable. I liked mob having cool looking weapons, bring 'em back

    I mean come on, there are only a number of different attack animations on mob, with only a few damage types. I hope its part of the long term plan to bring back weapons on mob.

    It'll serious hurt having a mob burst on my with a chemical streamer, but I think it'll be fun! A little bit of unpredictability never hurt anyone (well, not for 10,000+ anyway hehe)

    What do others think?
    Last edited by edict; Mar 15th, 2002 at 17:20:45.
    edict
    Clan Archdeacon

    "Nothing worth while is ever easy"

  12. #52
    scenario: engi enters a PvP area.
    trader ransacks engi.
    pet cant respond
    engi runs
    trader roots engi.
    trader risk vs engi: 0

  13. #53

    Re: Re: Canceling

    Originally posted by mitnick


    heh, what's the point in playing if the game is going to be fscked up Sarelron? :\
    Originally posted by DrCam

    Read the article... a few weeks? Heck, I don't wanna let Funcom get more money from me than necessary. If they decide to retract the patch, I can always un-cancel. But I don't think they'll get to their senses and do that...

    DrCam
    Guys, I have no problem with people canceling. Heck, why should you pay for something that isn't fun for you? But, and this is just me, why not give the changes a chance? Why not actually *try* the game with these changes? Just my two cents.

    Sarelron

  14. #54

    OK, riddle me this

    We got a theoretical SMG that requires 200 MG/SMG and 100 Burst.

    So mister Fixer has 200 natural MG/SMG.

    He gets Riot Control for 100 Burst (I think I'm right there) and puts the gun on.

    Now Riot Control wears off. He has now 0 Burst skill.

    He can't even shoot the thing. He has full capalities to fire a submachine gun of that level and is Infinitately over-equipped. (0 skill). What is the penalty for infinite overequipping? Heal the Monster?

    Would it not make sense to cut the Burst damage to nill and still allow the normal SMG damage for with he is more than qualified?

    Would this not allow for greater character customization where players could choose where their strengths and weaknesses lie when making a weapon choice.

    Or are posts like mine and others that even hint of adding an element of choice or even smack slightly of making any sense immediately dismissed as 'too complex'?

    Honestly, I want what's best for the game. But I have to laugh at the Game Director. I start to wonder if he's even out of high school or played any game other than EQ before. Sorry to take it personal, but whoever is making decisions on WHAT to change seems to have a clue. Whoever is making decisions on HOW to change it should be fired before it's too late.

    EDIT: Yes, and I'll cancel as well if this makes the game turn into a cookie-cutter fest like DAoC where caps made every player at a particular level almost IDENTICAL no matter how hard you tried. I'll give the changes a try no matter how inelegant or full of non-sequiters they are. But, if the only thing left to do in order to get better than the 'average' player is to 'level', then I'm gone in a flash as well.
    Last edited by Bionitrous; Mar 15th, 2002 at 17:16:27.

  15. #55

    How many RP points per skill?

    I am still a little bit confused on the whole IRP issue... How many RP points does it take per skill to reduce to the base? I think someone counted, and there are 75 total skills, does this mean that you are giving us enough RPs to reduce all skills and abilities down to base, and then give us three weeks to dink around with whatever we want, and reset ANOTHER 15 skills to base? Or do some skills require more then one RP to reduce?

    ie... "SMG" may only require 1 RP to reduce, but "Strength" requires 3.

    This is not important when you have 90 RPs, but when you have 6, it is

    Squick

  16. #56

    Re: How many RP points per skill?

    Originally posted by Squick
    How many RP points does it take per skill to reduce to the base?
    AFAIK, and as far as FC has said, 1.

    Sarelron

  17. #57
    brilliant article gaute. I'm afraid you've managed to do what nothing else could--including 12.6 and my husband quitting AO. I just cancelled
    Oh and hit 100 for the first time ever

    Please address the serious questions raised in the 83+ pages of thread already written to find a solution to this. Give adventurers their multi-range ip back. Find a solution for pets. TEST THIS LONGER THAN A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

    Please please prove me wrong andmake this work...

    sorry, but for rightnow, thisis just too much.

    Account status: Open until 2002-06-05. Subscription is cancelled

    Zyxlquith (lvl 100 trader)
    Acting president, Omni Shadow Ops
    Last edited by Zyxlquith; Mar 15th, 2002 at 17:50:38.

  18. #58
    1 IP reset point will refund the entire pool of IP's spent on that skill and set it to 5.

    A level 15 character can dump 3 skills completely.

    A level 50 can dump 5 skills completely.

    etc.

  19. #59

    Thumbs down Solo-ability on 100+ >:(

    3. Will the HPs (health points) of the monsters be reduced?

    We are going to go through the monsters and evaluate a reduction of hit-points for the most extreme monsters. (That is, a Level 180 Offal Larva has 10 times the amount of HPs that a normal monster has on that level.) Basically, we are going to make the variation smaller; thus the average is somewhat reduced. What I will not do is to reduce the normal monster hit-points at this time. This is not the same as saying that we'll NEVER do it - just that I would like to watch the impact of the current changes first. I am afraid of doing too many changes at the same time, and what the synergy of them might be.
    So you guys are not gonna tune the Mob HP down... would you please go and have a look at high end level play then...

    With a self cast bot as an engi I tested it, it's quite hard to solo 2 yellows at 108 for me... I can cast a feeble warbot at that level and have normal imps for that ql 125... used expertises to get that feeble warbot ... So completely solo that is... I got an unfortunate add in a mission which the pet could luckily taunt off of me, but it killed him in the end so I had to leave the mission to cast another one...

    Yes, I know you can go in again and kill em off, but I don't want to go lvl like this to all the way 200...

    I could get a team yes, but this is not an issue here, it's about the ability to solo the game... I think you should take a serious look at the high lvl end of game ... it's no fun to have to kill off 285 yellows to get a level up when on level 1-10 you can get one by killing of 15 yellow mobs...

    Why should xp you get each new level for killing a (yellow) mob increase linear over levels, and the xp totally needed per level end up exponentially? (or maybe it is linear, but then it needs some balancing I think... especially with the OE patch coming...)

    Okay guys flame on... this is just my opinion, so keep that in mind, you have the right to yours...

  20. #60
    BUT becase FC decided long ago to mess over the "average" player by increasing npc difficulty based on the smartest most savy players abilities, you WILL feel the effects of this patch.

    That is the reason that I left EQ to come to AO, if AO gets too hard I'm not going to spend my money here either.

    I'm doing fine with a level 66 Atrox Enforcer and I only equip what I can with my buffs and implants and I have very poor implants. The best I have is level 90ish armor pieces and my best implant is +12 stamina I think, I only use implants I find in missions or as rewards.

    I do even missions solo but if we get nerfed so bad that even our store bought weapons and armor won't work because a de-buff was cast by a mob (I'm always getting ransacked and deprived in missions and even now have to sit for several minutes but at least I can finish the fight and not die) then I'm out of here too.

    I don't care about PvP, I don't care about the scientific OEing and I don't care about the math. I don't intend to make a science of equiping and implanting I have better things to do with my time I just want to bash stuff a couple of hours a day and have fun SOLO, something that ended when I hit the mid-50's in EQ and something that I hope that doesn't end here.

    FC=VI these days, where can we then go to have fun again?

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