Overequipping and the IP reset: A follow-up

[TaintStain]

I migth agree on the fact that this OE thing should have been solved a long time ago, and the system suggested is indeed a good one

IF IT WAS DONE ON DAY ONE!!!!

At this point FC has spent like 6 months to balance the game towards the current OE system, they have taken some pretty awful nerfs into the game on account of this...

To in one blow adjust the OE system but not readjust the game is FATAL, suicide even. Mobs at this state are friggin insane on some points. An overall reduction of everyones Ability to whitstand and deal dmg to such a degree will make this game not 25% harder but rather 50%+ harder.

And to give ppl power and then reomve it to such a degree is, the worst PR/CS move any company can ever do, ever in the part of human history that has had comanies in its society, (that is a friggin long time), has a company gotten away with a thing like that.

Bah, for goodness sake FC, go back to school. Or better yet, go back to making "sink the ship, and, four in a row". But then you would just make it so the comp has twice the amounts of ships or that the player needs 8 in a row.

Fury Out...

[____________RedSonja]

I play an Enforcer.
She is currently Level 101.
Nothing he wears, no weapon he uses cannot be self-equipped with my own buffs.
Her weapons (2x Rider Executioners) are currently QL125.
Her armour (Graft) ranges from QL101-QL125.

If I take a 50% mission I will get mobs ranging from Green to Orange.
At the present time I can take and complete a 50% mission.
Usually envolves a little running around, occasionally I'll have to flee the mission for a quick heal and then straight back in.

1. This OE patch will effect me how?

My Level 101 Enforcer will occasionally hit those 25% suppresion zones.
Sometimes it's because of a mission location, other times she might be looking for a fight, other times she might get a fight forced upon her.
Occasionally she will win a fight, she has successfully killed people ranging from much lower levels to her to a few of higher level.
She has also lost quite a few fights too.
When she goes in to combat against somebody of similar level she is quite often at a disadvantage, where as she has QL125 weapons and QL120 armour the person she may find herself up against is holding a QL190 Weapon and wearing QL180 armour.
Although she is of a similar level and of similar skill in her choosen weapons to her enemy she is slaughtered in a matter of minutes.

2. This OE patch will effect me how?

I've witnessed many PvP fights.
As a rule, unless it's a "duel" or in the arena's it tends not to be 1 on 1.
Like the days of old on UO the fight is either a number of players against a much smaller number of players or it's a massive brawl, similar numbers on each side.
One of the tactics I've always emplyed in situations like this is the need to pick your targets with care.
If ever I've been in charge of a group or team in any of the games I've played the initial target is "The Healer".
Take down the healers as fast as you possibly can, this should leave you at an advantage.
The OS patch makes me think that maybe new tactics will be required, maybe we'll need to take the Traders down first, or maybe it will be healers closely followed by the traders.

3. This OE patch effects me how?

Answers:

1. It doesn't.
2. I may stand a better chance when going up against somebody either around me level or higher.
3. I need to make better choices and/or use better tactics when it comes to group PvP.

[______________Psilex]

So after the OE patch, it seems like de-buffs will be the way to go. If a debuff is that powerful, won't the only strong PvP profession be the trader? Do any other professions have a chance now? Sure we can go get "inexperience" nanos, but is that the same thing?

A bit confused about this...

[Lord]

i've been around since beta3 and this is what in have concludet...


ao will never get to work, FC has failed where a couple of RPG interestet kids would have ruled completely.

getting up arears for every lvl, balance, equal rules for everybody(ransack wont affect npc's ? how lame can it be?and dont tell me "lower dammage" i give a fsuck about losing 10hp less pr. shot)


so, ill agree that to build a TV it requiers some high skills. but to use it is damn easy.

so i get my mocham and premium and build my pet, now the hard part is over. but i cant controle it afterworth?

it has only been said that the pet would defend it self, not the pet holder. but even if i had eg. 2 slyrs i could care less.. cus i would get ransacked and then loose my AC, then get shot down with ease before my pets would do **** (especially since they STILL FOR MORE THAN A YEAR, have been running the opposite direction than where the enemy was).

but lets face it.. fc sux big time.. lets hope they hire some ppl at bioware to set up the damn stats for every thing... then we would have a flawless system working in mid may.

heh... i imagine a agent together with a trader, do AS on a engi thats just lost hes already lame AC and kill him with 1 shot.


pet dies wenn the petholders die ya know.. so whats the use of pet's in pvp anyway?

machine's of warfare my ass, engineers build crap after this patch, and will be ignored completely
any lvl 130 enforcer can kill an lvl 130 warbot with hes lvl 130 engineer. and he ever get to chose wich to take on first since its low risk.


the only whiners are all le n00b's that cant figure sh*t and run around asking for 10k to a amor.

GO GET A MISSION DAMMIT.

but then again... why? mision's are always so damn far away that it's imposible, until u reach lvl 95-100 and can get'em in bs


im so tierd of npc flying thru the air to kill me cus im up on a big rock with my agent sniping down and using the surrounding terain to my advantage.

wenn im in shop and my pet get's in my way, i use the wait command. then wenn i leave the shop and forget my pet i run back inside, and now what...20 ppl i have newer seen is inside and the pet is gone forever. all because of paralel zoning, witch by the way happens many places.. i remember going down a dungeon .. fighting the boss with my team, go LD, then relogin, end up in a paralel dungeon, lot of xp to loose, boss back, hes insane hard helpers back, teamates in another zone with my pet.


you figure out what happends nxt...


there is somany things that aint working that THATS the most amasing with this game. why dos a treatment pack doing 1900 cost me 280k to make ? nice tradeskill fc.. ya bunch of insane idio*s.. who is going to buy my treatment pack costing 300k wenn i sell it ?

why does it cost me 50k+ to make a ql 35 crystal? who around lvl 30 is going to buy my crystal wenn i sell it for 75k ?

why does the equipment to making a crystal cost 500k-2,5milions credits ? its not like you can make money from it ya know.



you took away all my shells... now you took away my pet, now i took back my money


Account status Open until 2002-04-1
Subscription is cancelled



Lordcyrik 102 engi
Hollowpower 38 Agent
Bluepower 40 NT
Awesomepower 36 MA

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Kuroshio

1. Didn't know nor care about stun being broken, getting fixed, getting nerfed. Why was it nerfed anyways? Truthfully, or I'll just ask someone who'll tell the truth
2. Trader debuffs aren't out of line. It's the trader damage. Personally, with IPR being put in, I'm more than willing to have our 1 green weapons skill switched to pistols for all I care. But a trader, self-buffing himself to a level where most players would be considered OE, is the cause of the huge shotgun crits you see. When we're on par with the required skill of the shotgun, the damage is quite tame.
3. There is no one -400 debuff in the trader's arsenal. Stacking skill debuffs it's possible. But waaaaait a sec, that leaves us vulnerable to the same complains you NT's have been making about resists/interrupts/blackholes/fumbles. Twice actually in order to pull it off.
4. Everytime you meet a trader this happens? Trader what? Mob or Player? Actually I don't rightly give a holy hung horse if a player takes advantage of your vulnerability in PvP. That's your vulnerability, live with it. Trying to get it removed because you see others chanting "Nerf Traders" pretty much makes me not give a care anymore of the NT becomes the whipping profession of PvP. I always said they aren't meant to be great at it. Now ask me if I care about team PvP and the NT.

You didnt care if stun was fixed then nerfed, and you dont care the NTs has been nerfed every single patch since release... We have been asking for boosts all the way, the exploits had to be fixed of course, but as a result of the fixes, they also removed alot of our abilities without exploiting. ALot of Traders did all they could to nerf stun... now its time for a nerf of traders.

Its funny, all but the traders think traders are uber...

Traders debuffs is already to good, after OE nerf, they will be absolutely uber, needs to work against weapon skills only, not nano skills, same with their buffs. MPs should be the nano buffers/debuffers, not the trader.

Its stacking I am talking about.... cant you read?

Player acutally, not mobs, mobs stack only 30-40% of the time.

And I dont give **** about what you want with NTs, all I care about is to fix the trader debuffs, I am living with it... but want it changed.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Scumbug


fortunately for you I cannot find the thread anymore.
a few months back you made a thread that was titled
"bring back instakills".

You should read the content, not only the headline...

Originally posted by Scumbug

including myself. but dont just say "nerf crits"
offer a solution. the most obvious being
-make MA crit-buffs self-only
-make MA crit buffs very short duration team-only
so every other profession in the game can't just
get a crit buff and own the politcal zone for the next hour.

the best solution is probably both of the above.
make existing MA crit buffs self-only.
but so MAs are still popular in teams, make another
line of crit buffs that have exactly the same reqs
and offer exactly the same bonus for teammates,
but make these 10-15min duration.
this makes it not worth seeking out an MA for UVC
before going off to PvP. basically, you dont get the
buffs unless you have an MA by your side.
(encourages team PvP)
also: make sure they don't stack with eachother!

Thats what I call a nerf, a nerf of the MAs ability to give crit buffs to others = nerfing of crits becuase everybody got one running all the time. Im all if for it, make dmg 100% again still capped at 40% of course.

[____________Dirragon]

Okay. I'd like to say thank you to Funcom, first of all, for making AO what we all hoped it would be in the beginning, and for continuously working with the player community on issues that relate so directly to our online alter-egos.
I think the patch is a wonderful addition, and have no problems with it, save one, which has doubtless been discussed many times. I felt I needed to reply, anyway-
The engineer. I have an engineer on Rubi-Ka, and love the class dearly, and am sincerely hoping that they get a fair shake in this whole business, which as of now does not seem to be doing so. I honestly don't understand why the pet has to go into a /pet behind stance once all enemies are done attacking it. This is potentially dangerous for engineers, and certainly not what I would call a "fair" way of dealing with the situation.
Think of our pets like our weapons, yes? Since that is essentially what they are, why would our weapons simply stop working, while a soldier's would continue to work, albeit at decreased efficiency? Why not simply decrease the efficiency of the pet? We don't need to have a larger OE range, but we do need to be able to survive in dangerous situations. If we lose that which is our salvation, you might as well, throw in the towel. One less engi alive in the land.
I mean, in the event of a trader debuff, an engineer would be rendered absolutely defenseless, giving the trader class a WIDELY unfair advantage, in solo, pvp, and team play. Is it really going to become necessary to carry a requisite trader around in my backpack at all times, in the case of severe debuffs that make me lose absolute control of that which my life depends on?
Being mainly a solo player, and truly enjoying that aspect of AO I might add, I enjoy getting the most out of my implants and bringing about the best robot possible by my OWN hand. I have never relied on trader buffs or MP buffs, nor do I ever feel I should have to.
At any rate, I simply think there is a better way, a more fair way, to take care of the OE with regards to the engineer specifically. Decreasing pet agressiveness, damage, AC, on a temporary basis until we can get our stats back up to par- these are all viable options, and ones that would not give engineers an unfair advantage over other classes, but make the OE patch even across the board.
I can only hope you consider the alternatives before making a solid decision.

[______________Weazul]

Ok, I have to agree and disagree...

Yes, your pets are something like weapons, BUT they provide some interesting side benefits that my weapon does not...

1) Monsters attack ME, not my weapon.
2) My weapon attack does not allow me to "kick the monster too".
3) My weapon does not allow me to sit down and heal myself while it shoots.
4) My weapon costs credits to reload, I don't just have to pay for it once and shoot forever.

Now I admit I am new here, my character is only 20 hours old, but having gotten to level 22 solo, I think I have seen how things work. If any of my points above are wrong, please say so, I am always game to learn more.

Weazul

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Garzu

Thats what I call a nerf, a nerf of the MAs ability to give crit buffs to others = nerfing of crits becuase everybody got one running all the time. Im all if for it, make dmg 100% again still capped at 40% of course.

It's not a nerf at all.
doesn't affect MAs because the duration for the one
they've been using all this time is unchanged.
they can still cast it on other people (makes them wanted in groups)
but the only difference is they'd have to recast it on the team
every 10-15min.
minor inconvenience, but only as bad as many other team buffs.

the objective is to not let non-MAs use this buff for long without
an MA around. every profession has an hour long crit buff now.
but if you have to spend 15min running around town looking
for an MA to buff you, then add travel time back to the PvP zone,
now you have <10min left on the buff anyway.. you wont really
be doing much actual PvP with this strategy. the inconvenience
to the non-MA is the limiting factor.

[___________FearDeath]

Originally posted by Raysight
So rant, complain, whine all you want - cuz when it gets right down to it, as long as the FC staff gets their paycheck, they don't care what you think.

Don't you know it's sad but true.

"And yet if I were to have them all killed, I would be a criminal. Where is the justice in that" (monty burns)

Its just sad that nobody has taken the time to crack this game and make it so everyone can play for free.. Then we could express our displeasure in the only place UnFuncrap cares about. The bottom line.

[Ditka]

Originally posted by Weazul
Ok, I have to agree and disagree...

Yes, your pets are something like weapons, BUT they provide some interesting side benefits that my weapon does not...

1) Monsters attack ME, not my weapon.
2) My weapon attack does not allow me to "kick the monster too".
3) My weapon does not allow me to sit down and heal myself while it shoots.
4) My weapon costs credits to reload, I don't just have to pay for it once and shoot forever.

Now I admit I am new here, my character is only 20 hours old, but having gotten to level 22 solo, I think I have seen how things work. If any of my points above are wrong, please say so, I am always game to learn more.

Weazul

1. Mobs do turn and atk pet owners, we share in the hate the pet generates. Also, when breaking first rooms, if you screw up the pull the addidional mobs will ignore the pet and go for the owner.

2. Huh? If you're refering to us having guns as well, i manage to hit for a whole 70-80 points of damage with mine at lvl 85. That may sound like a lot to you, but the green mobs at my level have 3K in HP.

3. No and I don't have TMS. Sorry our classes aren't exactly the same in all respects, maybe you should try checkers.

4. I go thru over 50K credits in nano rechargers on a hard mission. How many bullets do you go thru?

[Ditka]

CZ,

If that poll is some kind of lame attempt to show that the OE changes (as described) have player support, I'm going to be a very upset customer.

I'll reiterate what myself and a lot of players I know have said.

You roll 14.2 w/o serious NPC Mob HP reductions and we're going to stop our accounts.

[______________Nelida]

You think that they'll "level the playing field" THIS time by nerfing everyone else BUT when some one class or group of classes becomes 'uber' for it then they'll raise everone else UP? No, think again, they'll just nerf the new 'uber' ones. And so it will continue. It is always easier to nerf than to truley fix. They will always take the easier way out since it also the CHEAPER way.

Originally posted by Crin


Yes it will fix something. The playing field will be leveld. That has to happen first before any other changes can take place.

[______________Molgan]

I dont like the IP reset system at all, it will be abused like hell!
How about this idea:
The first time you log in with a character after the patch you get a message saying "Do you want to reset all your characters IP´s?"
So that its a one-time change only... why do we need to change the IP-setup more than once anyways???

[Loretta]

I remember reading several months back that the difficulty of mobs has been increased in response to the players who over-equipped within the game rules.

Then there was the glorious article which asked asking us, players how they (funcom) should deal with over-equippers. A heated discussion followed. In that article, a statement has been made that Funcom would tie the OE changes with lowering the difficulty of the mobs.

Now, there is a new thread once again. But this time OE changes will not automatically mean that the mobs will be lowered in difficulty.

And that means that the past 3 months of the over-equipping saga have turned out to be smoke screen. Take a look at all those arguments being made by people who were for the OE patch. Their biggest argument was that if both over-equippers and the mobs are adjusted, then we will be back to square one.

Then I have to ask, why would anyone be for these changes in the first place. How precisely is this going to make things better for everyone in this game? How is it going to balance AO? Those who are not over-equipped now won't see a change after the patch. Those who are, however, will see everything they worked for turn to dust.

The IP reset is about giving back resources lost due to nerfs, isn't it? (see all those who put IP into dual wielding FAs only to see them removed from the game later). Who will refund the time and money spent by people who went out of their way to remain competitive with the changes made to the game play throughout game's history?

Even if Gaute stated that the changes are needed to bring balance to the PvP I will disagree. There is not much PvP in this game anymore, just go and visit 2ho at 8pm EST. I don't believe that there will be more PvP after the patch;

Forget about external buffs for a second. Forget about ransacks. After the patch it will be those who have the best implants who will have still prevail in PvP. Those who say that they can't afford the implants, buffs, and weapons to over-equip now will still be hurting afterwards. Those who have the resources and friends (money for implants, and friends who can assemble them and cast buffs to put them in) will continue to have upper hand.

Which leads me to conclude that the only reason for the OE patch is to lower the rate at which people gain levels, and that all I've been reading about reasoning for OE patches prior to this latest post has been a big lie.

After being away for a week, I tried to play my "over-equipped" agent today. I spent most of my time by the grid in entertainment trying to get to BS to do some missions for experience. 30 minutes later the grid was fixed. I went to a mission, the mission crashed half way through. When I relogged, I got killed by newly respawned mobs. I came back after reclaiming my items, zoned out, crashed, and went into a crash loop. Couldn't log back in. Mobs rejoiced. Casual role-players danced at Baboons.

Stability of the game is much more of an issue than anything else that Gaute can come up with.

If Funcom wanted to prevent me from gainging levels, they have succeeded without the OE nerf. Kudos for a job well done.

If this is going to be the pattern for the next few days, it will be enough to make me cancel. Then all those asking the "can I have your stuff" questions will be able to buy my account on e-bay. Including a lvl 71 agent with ql 188 ranee. A gun, which I have equipped legally within the current rules of the game. And which, before the OE patch, still means something.

[Lord]

LOL... so.. you crashed too ? i was halfway thru the mission.. a real tough one.. and what.. crash.. big time.. black wall and all
finaly a LD after 15min of fighting the same moob.. i couldnt stop the attack, could sit, couldnt do dammage, couldnt run out..like always.. and wenn i got back..


Hi there mister A-2000 soldier being very red looking very angry.


oh.. this is fammiliar suroundings... aint this the reclaim ?

[Lord]

now this is a great link to all that find fc killing the game

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories...636409,00.html

[Loretta]

hehe, funny, I was looking at the new games which are coming up, and was at that precise page about 3 hours ago

[Lord]

i was thinking that shadowbane would be interesting..

maby we should start a thred where ppl could come up with idears.. if many chose the same game we could make a guild called somthing fc wouldnt lik... nahh... never mind =) hehe

[Lord]

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories...854452,00.html