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Thread: Overequipping and the IP reset: A follow-up

  1. #21

    Thumbs down So, whats more positive?

    Ok, now we know what we suspected..that it will come, it will come within a few weeks, and they will make NO changes to the patch from what they suggested.

    The pet class engineer is destroyed as a pvp character, or for that matter in single missions ( A single npc trader can divest the engineer anytime ).

    This is not balance, its madness, but hey, I am just one of the UBER twinks I guess that just want to cheat all you others out of your hard earned xp.

    And: They will not lower the hp's on mobs, only some special ones that are EXTREME.

    And: They will not increase duration on wrangles, they might see in the future, but won't PROMISE anything.

    And: The pet will only fight to defend itself, if there is two mobs, and one agro on the engineer the pet will not attack that mob after being done defending itself....

    To be honest: The lines " we are working on ..." have been heard to many times in this game and nothing have been done.

    I was hoping for a little understanding, but got none, they want weekend warriors who use little bandwith and so they don't mind if the core players leave. Well thats up to them, when this patch hits the server I hit some other game

    Oh, by the way, he didn't mention engineers one place, only crats...as if they are hit hard.

    And I know alot will say: Yes, good riddance, but be prepared to say that ALOT of times to ALOT of players.

    Yours


    Morgoth
    General of Security ( Soon retired )
    Omni Shadow Ops

  2. #22

    Re: OE Whats wrong with it ?

    Originally posted by Felix7
    LOL so u ppl think we were buff machines b4 what will we be now ? in teams constantly depriving mobs if we can to cast wrangles so ppl can hit better what a joke.
    I'm sorry, but comments like that are proof positive that you have *no* clue what it means to be a Trader.

    Sarelron

  3. #23
    Very nice article. Made the changes clear and easy to understand. Looking forward to 14.2 (and 14.0 with the team missions).

    One thing I'm afraid with the IPR though, is that Rubi-Ka will be even more flooded with shotgun wielders. It takes som fun out of it when almost everyone you meet use a shotty. To avoid this, you need to introduce some other weapons that can compete with them before or at the same time as the IPR introduction.

    --sil

  4. #24
    The only real problem I have with this is that it will make PVP even more difficult for the average casual player.

    This is because, with the everpresent option of resetting IP points, players will be able to totally configure themselves for PVP. They will reach a certain level, decide it's time to PVP for a while, and then redo their IP points. Pull >everything< out of breaking and entering, trap disarm, nanoskills that don't assist in pvp, tradeskills, etc.

    So the PVP zone will be full of players with totally maxxed body development, evades, etc. And every single one of them will be using a shotgun or one of the soldier weapons with multiple specials.

    It's hard enough competing in pvp zones now, with soldiers slamming you with flingshot/burst/full auto, then switching to a second gun which has aimed shot. What happens when every profession does this?

    PVP is all about special attacks and criticals... I forsee a day in the future when every player in pvp will be using the exact same weapon. Probably a flashpoint. Or is there another multi-special weapon that people are using now?

  5. #25
    IPR...

    reshuffeling of those to opt the char continiously....?

    Nope, will be too costly when those extra IPRs dissapears.
    So there will be a few weeks with problems yes... but then it should be over.


    Belive me those point is going to be needed... people does stupid mistakes
    Dhur the Ninja Pirate NT!

  6. #26
    Originally posted by starknaked
    The only real problem I have with this is that it will make PVP even more difficult for the average casual player.

    This is because, with the everpresent option of resetting IP points, players will be able to totally configure themselves for PVP. They will reach a certain level, decide it's time to PVP for a while, and then redo their IP points. Pull >everything< out of breaking and entering, trap disarm, nanoskills that don't assist in pvp, tradeskills, etc.

    So the PVP zone will be full of players with totally maxxed body development, evades, etc. And every single one of them will be using a shotgun or one of the soldier weapons with multiple specials.

    It's hard enough competing in pvp zones now, with soldiers slamming you with flingshot/burst/full auto, then switching to a second gun which has aimed shot. What happens when every profession does this?

    PVP is all about special attacks and criticals... I forsee a day in the future when every player in pvp will be using the exact same weapon. Probably a flashpoint. Or is there another multi-special weapon that people are using now?
    To a degree yes, but beyond the 90 period (after which you loose any of the 90 you havent spent) the amount of reset points will be too limited to do this to the degree you suggest I feel.

  7. #27
    Lol, everytime a fanboi said we should not complain because AC and HP of mobs would be balanced at the same time as necessary, I answered, they never promised that.

    And voila, ain't gonna happen

    Same goes for trader debuffs in PvM and PvP, the other key concern, not a word about that really, hihi.

    This will be bad.
    Last edited by Greystar; Mar 15th, 2002 at 16:36:22.
    RK1 Guild Apocalypse

    Dillon "Duradas" Belote, Fixer
    Kiyoko "Selarana" Vallone, Meta Physicist
    Donald "Jorman" Dublin, Bureaucrat
    Burl "Gnorrg" Marinos, Enforcer
    Florence "Florania" Aronstein, Doctor
    ----
    RK3, Arnold "Gideon" Reineman, Enforcer

  8. #28

    Thumbs down So basicly yes traders are being made gods.

    I still say this is BS.

    Most skills for weapons cap out around 1000 any how, with implants self buffs ext, and yet some weapons require skills to be that high.

    Nice to know you won't get double whammied for using a weapon with 2 primary weapon stats, BUT I'm sorry... this does NOT NOTNOTNOTNOTNTONTNOT adresses that NPC and the potentail much worse PC trader ARE being buffed to hades and bakc by these rules.

    -420 skill points from ANY weapon skill WILL leave players FORCERED to UNDER equip weapons to fight trades ( npc or pc ).

    WORSE all the incarnations of the trader skill transfers lines STACK, meaning PC traders CAN reduce other players to -0- NONE NADA -ZERO- damage based of posts made bya trader in the original where he discussed chaining this various ransack's and deprives to come up with nearly 400 points of skill drain for a character UNDER lvl 100. What happens at higher level?!

    Yes the new article helped clear things up, BUT this is still HUGE issue. If the purpose is to make trader skill transfers the garunteed death they are for NT's, and Doc's ( and to a lesser extent MA's and adventures ), the personaly I don't want to see the profession have anything EVERY increased or them get a "lovin' " patch, because this is extremely overpowering.

    IF their programs lines are fixed so they don't stack that will help.. SOME. God knows my various crit hit buffs don't freakin stack.

    Cheetarr
    Last edited by Cheetra; Mar 15th, 2002 at 16:45:06.

  9. #29

    Re: OE Whats wrong with it ?

    Originally posted by Felix7

    unless u hope that no one OE after this patch then the wrangles will not be needed........

    You can Still Wrangle and Fall inside of the O/e Rules Even with the 132 Wrangler.

    Edit:

    The thing about The Deprive and Ransack skills the prior post stats is one thing that worrries me, at any level when getting hit by a deprive then ransack you almost Never meet these O/e rules go do a mission find a npc trader and let them hit you for a deprive then ransack, preatty much none of your skills or armor will work according to these rules, the level below 100 will get hit hard. well ill i know is if i see a trader in pvP/m Runn.
    Last edited by Xyberviri; Mar 15th, 2002 at 16:45:57.
    ~I am the Virtual Virus

  10. #30

    Thumbs down Argh

    I was all for 14.2 until this "explanation" came out.

    There are several inherent flaws in what you're doing.

    1) Adventurers/Multi-Ranged skill and varioius IP losing bugs will not be affected by the IP Reset. This is just unacceptable. There is, however, an easy solution to the problem that has been overlooked. During the grace period, where you have 90 IPRs, give us the option to reset ALL skills simultaneously. I threw together a quick spreadsheet that calculates the IP that a character SHOULD have at any given level, so I *know* it isn't that hard to do programatically. If a character elects to reset all skills, then all go to base value and the number of IP that character should have for its given level will be available. Problem solved.

    2) Pets "tanking." Good concept in theory, but with my main now being a Crat, I can tell you it's, for the most part, BS. Even fighting one mob, with mudslinging on my bot and me standing idle in a corner, mobs will still decide to stop fighting my bot and aggro on me. Now, with me standing idle (no casting, healing or anything) doing 0 damage, and my bot hitting the mob for several hundred points a pop, explain to me how I draw aggro. I have heard no acceptable reason why pet effectiveness (HP/AC/damage) cannot be reduced just like weapons and armor, following the normal OE rules.

    3) Unless you want to turn AO into a math nightmare for some people (personally I find the formula quite simple, but obviously many don't) then you need to include the icon coloring in shop views as well. Let someone see, before they purchase, that based on their current skills an item will be OE.

    4) If you aren't going to apply OE to implants/NCUs at least force a one-time manditory de-equip of these items to render past exploits null and void that allowed vast OE of these items.

    5) I still have to agree with those who say OE should be a gradual process, not hard and fast steps, your ease of understanding argument not withstanding. Please think this through.

    6) I can't believe Gaute is going to ignore the fact that mobs were made vastly more power specifically because of the OE problem. If you're going to address the problem but not remove your previous "solution," then yes, you will be losing a lot of players because it will simply become to frustrating to play.

    7) You say you made nanos in general difficult to resist. I say, through practical experience, that is totally bogus. Do you actually play your game Gaute? I can stand and cast the same nano 4-6 times at a mob and have it resist every time. Good example is, I'm casting the drain psychic nano to get a mob within my range to charm him. I continually cast drain psychic for the entire duration of the fight, without ever firing a shot, as soon as nanos recharge, while my bot hits the mob. I've seen many instances where 3 out of 4 attempts are resisted and the 4th is fumbled. How can an accomplished Bureaucrat who is FAR in excess of the required skills to execute a specific nano, going to fumble 25% of the time? And how is the mob resisting 75% of the time? You need to take a close look at mob nano resistance.

    8) MAKE nano resistance work for player characterrs. Even with maxed nano-resist AND implants to increase it, I almost NEVER resist a mob nano.

    All in all, I still agree the patch is a good idea, but I must say I'm far less in agreement about the implementation of it at this point.

  11. #31

    Thumbs down 14.2 bad

    Like said. If they listened. They would have changed this patch. Not only do they not listen about our concerns, they insult our intelegance by saying lets put it in the game then will figure out what the probelms our.

    OMG. I feel sorry for your company. Can you say more layoffs. Thanks to your Game Director that does not understand the game Nor has he ever played.

    Like I has said in the past articles, not once have our comments and concerns about patch been taken into concideration and made FC re-act.

  12. #32

    Nice call, Stark

    Yes, PvP will be even more imbalanced. Those poor 'casual players' who keep points in Treatment, B&E, Vehicle Ground, and the like (skills a normal character needs to advance) are likely to be completely destroyed.

    The PvP character now has his sugar daddy supplying him with 39.5% percent OE items for the best effect. He has maxed evades, nano resist, weapon skill, first aid, initiatives, all the skills needed to kill the casual player. Not a single point into anything that may be needed for 'real playing. He doesn't have to 'play'. He's got other characters for that.

    So, yes, the Twinks probably will become even more powerful in PvP than they are now. And I say good for them. For all those 'casual players' who couldn't see how shortsighted this method of addressing OE'ing is I hope they die a thousand deaths in the Arena and get disgusted and finally leave.

    I repeated at least 5 times that monsters weren't going to get any easier. Well, I guess I was wrong. The Offal Larva might get its hitpoints reduced. Joyous day. Can't remember the last time I fought one of those. Anybody finally understanding that this is really about slowing the leveling process and not some benevolent gesture towards the poor, poor, ill-equipped masses of the world?

    They could care less about the existence of PvP gods. What they do care about is how fast the rank and file of 'casual gamers' who are now about lvl50-70 (the prime time in terms of gaming enjoyment) reach lvl90+ (the point where it's all downhill and you either start a twink or quit).

  13. #33
    Hm... I don't play an engy, but: If a NPC trader fights your bot, will he still cast a debuff on the engineer?

  14. #34
    i think that the 30% OE rule for engineer would really be a great think

    i'm playing with a NT friend at this time (i = 97 engi) and (he = NT 114), the OE rules won't affect him want his nano use matcrea and time space, he uses no weapon, (actually he does more dmg than i do with my bot, my bot do 3x500 while he has time to make 2x1250) i mean with the OE rule, i ll have to wear a ql 129 bot instead of the 160ish i was having while playing with him, do u imagine, he will do stgh like 4or5x more dmg than i ll do with my bot :/)

    Engineers will really have to have some specifics change with the OE rules, don't forget taht we have no root, no calm/meez, no heal for us, the only think we have is our bot :/

  15. #35

    Re: 14.2 bad

    Originally posted by usananoman
    Like said. If they listened. They would have changed this patch. Not only do they not listen about our concerns, they insult our intelegance by saying lets put it in the game then will figure out what the probelms our.

    OMG. I feel sorry for your company. Can you say more layoffs. Thanks to your Game Director that does not understand the game Nor has he ever played.

    Like I has said in the past articles, not once have our comments and concerns about patch been taken into concideration and made FC re-act.
    I'm sorry, but if you look at the number of people who posted positively in response to both this OE post and the previous, you will see that you are by *far* in the minority. Look at the number of posts so far that say "thank you" and "looks great", and compare them to the number of posts like yours.

    Sarelron

  16. #36
    Originally posted by Beatenblue
    Hm... I don't play an engy, but: If a NPC trader fights your bot, will he still cast a debuff on the engineer?
    Oh npc's that cast nano's are wicked. they just cast all they want, on who they want. "fixed chain-casting npcs"? BAH!

    I'm out too.
    Last edited by DrCam; Mar 15th, 2002 at 17:24:57.

  17. #37
    21. What will happen to Bureaucrats and their "charmed Pets" (i.e. monsters turned into pets) since the "Crats" cannot use lower-level nanos due to Psychic skill-checks?

    This is true. Sadly, we cannot change that. We have decided to make the resist-rate of most nano-programs so low, that even a fairly low-level Bureaucrat could charm a high-level monster if we took out those stats. It used to be that way, and it was totally imbalanced. To avoid that imbalance reappearing, we have to stick to the way it currently works!



    Hooo thanks another nerf for the crats !
    Persoue agent 205

  18. #38
    I'm generally in favour of this OE patch although I have some concerns on how the "loss of control of pet" will actually take happen. As a crat I do get a lot of aggro since my nukes and shotgun can easily outdamage our faily lowdamge pets. Once debuffed by trader what then. First my gun will loose dmg, that's fine. I wont be able to nuke (well maby some pretty rediculas lowlevel nukes) that how it's always been. But he behavior of the pet after this is the mystery and I see in my crystal ball that there will be a lot of problems here once the patch hits test.

    So much for PvM - will most likely not be the biggst problem here though. In PvP. If a pet professiion gets hit first by a debuff. Like Dominate Mat.cre or a ransack and the pet already is around the limit of OE. Will the pet then attack the agressor or will it stop working at once. I cant do any commands on it now, cause now its overequipped. Pet professions is already now easy prey. Maybe in the future we will se all PvP players run around with Mat.cre inexprience to effectly pacify pet professions, since most will probably balance on the edge of the OE Limit with pets - Especially if they wanted a chance in PvP.

    I'm in favour of limiting the lvl of the pet, pet-users can summon- The 20% limit also sounds fair imho, but that debuffs should have a impact on pet seems far out. If they want to debuff anything they should debuff the pet, well now they can do both and both will work.

    This might balance PvM, but pet classes will be driven even further away from joining in on the real conflict on RK - PvP. Pet classes are already gimped here. They cant get outside buffs on their pets, they cant do anything about their rooted melee-pet.

    Well guess I'll have to make an account on the test server when the time comes.
    Emitter Bureaucrat
    Astolpho Keeper
    Ancarim Iron Legion - RK1

  19. #39

    Hmm, pets.

    OE changes are okay, for the most part, and the IP reset will be nice. Though I do agree with the notion that PvP will become even more difficult due to the IP reset, with people resetting their IP to create a perfectly tailored PvP monster.

    Not to mention what debuffs in PvP will do. Ugh.

    Strictly PvM, the debuff + pet thing makes me a bit nervous. It'd be nice if we actually resisted ransacks, etc., but the fact of the matter is, nano resist is botched. Down time in missions can't be used constructively, really -- and will be twice as bad if you have to wait for your pets to come back online. You'll either have to zone out (and sometimes in some pretty nasty areas) or park it somewhere inside until the debuff wears off and your pets (engi, meta, crat) become responsive again.

    And to the idea that pets always take the aggro and absorb the debuffs? I think not. At least with my personal experience as a meta, even if you're VERY careful not to let the mob see you, fiddling with your attack pet can turn the mob(s) right on you. Casting animas, chants, etc. Engy pets also lose aggro if they're not trimmed properly, and I'll assume the same goes for 'crat pets.

    I suppose other, non-pet classes probably think this is fine. And I know that debuffs have ALWAYS affected pure casters. As an NT, you always keep lower QL DDs and such handy so you won't be SOL when that nasty trader mob ransacks you. And the same debuffs lower the attack rating of a soldier. But hey, NTs can keep fighting, if they're brave, as can soldiers. Metas, engies and crats will have to flee for the exit. And will the pet(s) even zone with you? I wonder.

    Like I said, down time in missions can't typically be used constructively, and it'll be even worse for pet classes after the patch. A meta with a rasack cast on them will be a burden to the team as they wait for the nano to wear off, and it'll be a slow process soloing, as well.

    It's usually my nature to wait and see what happens before I address concerns. And I suppose it could all work out fine, but I see some annoying trends in the OE patch that have nothing to do with uber twinking and all that other crap.

    Other than the pet thing, I have no other major problems with the upcoming patch.
    Babette, Frenetic, Misophist, Yardleigh.
    "I am the queen of France!!!"


    Rejected.
    Ah, L'Amour!
    Bitter Films


  20. #40

    Thumbs up Even more in favor of 14.2 now

    I'm still pro 14.2. Very nice article. Thank you for a further explanation.

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