Overequipping and the IP reset: A follow-up

[___________Aggregate]

I see that " Envisioned" still has this little blurb about CHANGING PROFESSIONS:

The ability to change your profession – this is still in discussion as to how we want to implement this and to what degree, but it's something we think players would really enjoy – Coming around summer.

What are the chances of pushing this through for 14.2 as well? It seems there are a few classes who will be more hosed by these changes than others, and it would seem fair if you would just allow us to switch professions and not lose our tokens, level, and credits. If you're dead-set on hosing some of us, please let us switch to a more-loved (by FunCom) class...

[xbmspec]

Date of registration 2001-07-31 03:31:28 UTC
Account status Open
Subscription is cancelled

/me feels better already. Moves on to much better things.

[Painsmaiden]

Originally posted by Snublefot

You are taking them in defence by using bringing them into the discussion in the first place. As I understand the case, the FunCom executive was playing his role in an atempt to stop the *fill in bad word here*.

You are using a quote out of context to create an illusion for support of your own view. A side effect is that you for all practical purposes also gives support for the point of view that blacksnow have taken. Rest assure, I read what you posted, I read the article you linked to (and that gave a totaly different approach then you used).

Are you so blind that you don't even read to what people say. Now you are telling me that I support a group of players when I specifically told you that I didn't. If the semantics of the whole thing are getting you bent out of shape, then tough. You are trying to turn anything that I say or think into a disscussion of what YOU think I I feel, when the things I say are totally contrary to that. The quote is most certainly NOT out of context. It came directly from a Funcom rep to a player. It wasn't meant to be seen by the masses, but then again most damning quotes aren't. Sorry if you want to think that our feeback means anything. It's not my fault that they don't listen. Don't shoot the messenger.

Originally posted by Snublefot

After what I've seen Cz have been reading all the posts, and occasionaly written comments like "I'll pass that along to the design team." I guess that for every post he made he also passed on 20 other that he did not reply to. They are a norwegian company, and as that follows the norwegian tradition of actually listening. This is no big arrogan company, its a small upcoming "must give support to survive" company. They know and they do. The OE change should not come as an surprise, its a LONG time since Gaute first wrote an article about this issue...

I've read all the pages in the first thread, and I've read a lot of the other threads around this board. I can't say that the "againts OE" seem to be very loyal. Dedicated yes, but loyal no... And to put it this way, its FC that know how many customers they have. Its FC that know how often and when the same customers are online. As a norwegian company they are at the bleeding edge when it comes to CR. As rest of the norwegian IT companies they where also hit harder then most by market drop. The financiers of FC is their share holders, and as a paying customer, you are not among them.

Its not your game. Its at best yours 1/30000 (or whatever 5 digit number they have now). Most likely the increased number of "leavers" is just a fraction of the fluctuation the normaly see in their customer base. Most likely they have already seen the impact of the patch... Have you noticed how many engineers that have already adapted (just an example...)?

It IS my game just as much as it is your game. My money each month does just as much as yours. From each players point of view, it is their own game. Everyone has a valid opinion of how it should be played, since everyone pays to play it. I don't care one whit if they are a Norwegian company or a French or German company. That means nothing to me. Players are dedicated. Yes, they are even loyal. Loyal does not mean you are a fanboy, blindly following everything without question. In this case it means standing up for what you think is right and doing your best to make sure that it doesn't get ruined. Letting that happen wouldn't be very loyal would it?

Originally posted by Snublefot

I think its a good idea. Instead of basing your use of a weapon on stats you had days/weeks ago, they will now base their use by your current stats. You might have to change only that bright strenght disc after equiping your armor, instead of dropping the shining and faded too... It will not bring all toons of a lvl within 20%, we will see a lot more difference then that. You still need a very good understanding of the game to get the money, skill points and contacts to equip a implant set of 20+ you level. And I guess that an implant set of 20+ your lvl is considered a little n00b... I've lead (or rather assembled...) some very interesting teams lately, and the most interesting people I've met where not in the OE category. And they most certainly where not clones, even if their damage output where not too spread...

A personal answer: Will you quit because of this patch? And if yes, are you still playing? And if no, why are you even bothering to post on the official BB of a game you do not longer support?

Artificially limiting character growth has traditionally been a bad idea. Lots and lots of people agree on that fact. Lots and lots of other people don't seem to care one way or another. That's fine. I am beyond trying to convince you fanboys. Most of you have already had your minds made up for weeks now. To answer your question, if the patch goes through and it is as bad as I think it will be then yes I will quit. I love this game and I hate to see it go down the pooper. When I do finally quit at least I will know that I did all I could to prevent it and show others what I see.

As for you and your problems with whatever I say...I don't care. Either you don't read english very well or you just want to be combative. You are taking my disdain for Funcom's plans and extending that to support for people that I specifically said that I oppose. By your logic anyone who doesn't support a bill in Congress or Parliament or what have you, well, they must be lawless anarchists. Or if a reporter were to find a transcript of goevernment officials in talks with a terrorist group. If that official said something to the terrorists that was contrary to the governments public stance and a reporter put it on the news (this kind of thing happens all the time by the way)...does that make the reporter a terrorist? Most people call it taking the goverment to task. A little thing called accountability. But by your flawed logic it makes the reporter a terrorist. And for that reason I am done talking to you. Your utter inability to refrain from making flawed connections makes talking to you impossible. Enjoy the game. Good day..

[_______________Garzu]

It sucks so much it pisses me totally off, a small quote from the article :

10. Won't one de-buff completely kill pet users?

A de-buff will affect the pet professions hard, yes, but it will also hit the direct-damage dealing nano-program and weapon users. So far, if a Trader de-buffs the Nano-Technician (NT), the NT should run for the exit or grid entrance. Now this is also true for some of the pet professions.

WHy do you want ONE UBER PROFESSIon ABOVE ALL OTHERS????

THis hwole trader thing reminds me of the stun, but I bet it will take weeks before we see a nerf of the treader debuffs

Trader debuffs AND buffs should NOT work vs nano skills. It is more htan enough with MPs.

Let the trader be the weapon debuffer and buffer, just as MP and MP alone should be the nano bufffer and debuffer.


Just look at this, traders ARE ALREADY UBER, AND NOW YOU MAKE THEM EVEN MORE UBER!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :

Traders only got ALL the most and best stuff in pvp:

1. Traders have the best damage weapons in the game, shotguns, with their draining of your skills their AMS increases vs your DMS, and your AMS decreases vs their DMS, making it more likely htey will crit against you, and more likely you will miss.

2. Traders got the BEST debuffs in the game.

3. Traders got AE roots, which is damn nice in pvp.

4. Traders got the 2nd best healing in the game, only beaten by docs. With 50% dmg vs 100% heals....

Personally I htink those 4 is the most important and best stuff any profession can have in pvp, and trader got it ALL.


I think Trader buffs AND debuffs should NOT work against nano skills. MPs got nano debuffs like Dominate MC, it works against ONE skill, but traders work againt ALL nano skills + ALL weapon skills.... and it last for just as long time. Not only that, I was just talking about 1 trader debuff now, but they can stack... oh yeah, they can stack you back to the stoneage. Debuffin you with 415 points in ALL nano skills and ALL weapon skills... thats 3 times more than an MP can do against ONE skill....

Traders are in for a HUGE nerf.

[Snee]

http://www.ironcrown.com

This system needs a new engine and there is only one alternative - Spacemaster, (",).

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by [CrispyChicken]
Date of registration 2001-07-31 03:31:28 UTC
Account status Open
Subscription is cancelled

/me feels better already. Moves on to much better things.

Can I have your st.... err never mind. I can get my own just fine WITHOUT expecting it on a silver platter.

bye bye

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Garzu
It sucks so much it pisses me totally off, a small quote from the article :

WHy do you want ONE UBER PROFESSIon ABOVE ALL OTHERS????

THis hwole trader thing ...

Traders should be able to attack NT's at will, in any zone, even if they are in a different zone.

[xbmspec]

/me Gives Dr.Sent whats left in his stash.
- Few Leet Dolls.
- Map's of Mort / Newland
- And my collection of Furniture.

Enjoy!

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by [CrispyChicken]
/me Gives Dr.Sent whats left in his stash.
- Few Leet Dolls.
- Map's of Mort / Newland
- And my collection of Furniture.

Enjoy!

No way! That stuff is waaaay to easy to get.

[_________________Zuh]

I have finish to build a very good formula for OE. Clear, simple (for those who have basis in math) and works great. One single formula and easily modulable to adjust how hard have to be the scale.

I am currently writing a thread I will post probably this night. I have spend 4 days on this thread and hope FC will pay more attention than a simple Cz report to this and other good one like "Scumbug is a genius" ; ).


The basic formula is :

OE = 1 - ( playerSkill / neededSkill )

OEDamage = weaponDamage * ( 1 - OE ) * ( 1 + e * OE )


The blue part scale the weapon damage to the damage a weapon of your current skills would deal. I will consider than that you deal 100% damage.

The orange part scale your damage to the damage you will deal, considering your OE level. e is the OE factor. If you set e to 1 then a weapon 40% OE (166% skill requiered) will deal 140% damage, a 60% OE weapon (250% skill requiered) will deal 160% damage. To increase OE malus, you just have to decrease e.

This can be vague for some players, but the result of the formula would be quite simple and that's the most important. Let's make some exemple. I will set e to 0.8, because I think it is the best scale to deal with OEing, but it is very easy to change the scale of the formula as you wish.


So you can see here some exemple to make your mind about my formula. You can see the malus your damage suffer compare to your OE %, and then the damage you deal today compare to the damage you would deal with my OE formula applied. 100% damage is the damage you would deal with a gun that requiered exactly your current skills.

e = 0.8

    0% OE -> -00.0%          100.0% -> 100.0%
    5% OE -> -01.2%          105.3% -> 103.2%
   10% OE -> -02.8%          111.1% -> 108.0%
   15% OE -> -03.8%          117.6% -> 113.1%
   20% OE -> -07.2%          125.0% -> 116.0%
   25% OE -> -10.0%          133.3% -> 120.0%
   30% OE -> -13.2%          142.9% -> 124.0%
   35% OE -> -16.8%          153.8% -> 128.0%
   40% OE -> -20.8%          166.7% -> 132.0%
   45% OE -> -25.2%          181.8% -> 136.0%
   50% OE -> -30.0%          200.0% -> 140.0%
   55% OE -> -35.2%          222.2% -> 144.0%
   60% OE -> -40.8%          250.0% -> 148.0%
   65% OE -> -46.8%          285.7% -> 152.0%
   70% OE -> -53.2%          333.3% -> 156.0%
   75% OE -> -60.0%          400.0% -> 160.0%
   80% OE -> -67.2%          500.0% -> 164.0%
   85% OE -> -74.8%          666.7% -> 168.0%
   90% OE -> -82.8%         1000.0% -> 172.0%
   95% OE -> -91.2%         2000.0% -> 176.0%
   99% OE -> -98.2%        10000.0% -> 180.0%

So here it is. You can see there is no failure, you can also adapt the formula as you like by changing e value. You can increase the OE malus or decrease it. This work for any OE %.

So what do you think about it.


FC what do you think about this one ?

[_______V.T. Stampede]

LOL garzu,

if you nerf the debuffs, the whole trader profession is gimped.

Traders are easy to gimp, you just need to nerf their debuffs and you got a gimped profession. It would the same as nerfing nuke dmg.


The problem is not the traders, it's the OE patch.

[_______V.T. Stampede]

Originally posted by speardancer
"If Funcom didn't mean for us to OE, why did they give us wrangles?"

"The only the wrangles are good for are OE'ing"

BAH!!!!!

If I hear/read one of these again, I think I'll be ill....

Let's look at the name of the classs "Trader".... hmmm, you have nanos that trade things from other people to you, and from you to other people,


So, what are those wrangles for? They were Designed to be used along with the Deprive/ransack nanos....

Trader cast his deprive/ransack on the mob, "trading" the skills from the mob to the Trader. The trader then "wrangles" those skills out to his or her teammates.

Now, I'm NOT going to say this is practical the way most people play this game, but this is what was being thought of when they were put into the design of the game, which is why they are so short.

Then why did they create a 132 wrangle?

you are aubviously not a trader, and have never played one. So stop talking what you know nothing about.

/me feels ill from speardancer's moronic post.

[______________Katsue]

fAccount status Open
Next billing 2002-03-23

Nyeh.

I support the 14.2 patch, and hope that it fixes the OE problems. However, I am seeing a few problems with it. The first, being it needs to be tested for more than a few weeks. For a change that is of this magnitude, at least a month maybe. I understand why you do not want to lower the stats of mobs yet, but if you do not it could cause calamity... What should probably be done, is selecting a handful of real players, of all classes and a variety of levels and play-styles, to copy their characters onto test with the new OE fix and work on balancing the mobs to work with them. That way, once it is live there will be at least fewer problems, and mobs will not be horribly over-or underpowered. Then, minor adjustments can be made.

Also, in response to some comments about class balancing, I do not think that the classes should be perfectly balanced. Before somebody is flaming me, let me explain myself... I think that it is perfectly ok in a massively multiplayer environment for one class to be able to beat another most of the time in PvP. However, this must be balanced by another class being able to beat the first one. So that all classes have strengths and weaknesses, but no one class completely overpowers everyone. So, hypothetically, say that we have an Enforcer who can endure the attacks of an Engineer robot and get close enough to attack and kill the engineer, and will win in most circumstances, if neither side has help. However, another class, say Nanotechnician, could easily root the Enforcer and kill her at long range. And a soldier would be able to hit the nanotechnician at long range even with the roots. I know that the game does not work this way, and I do not see such changes coming in the near future if at all, but I think that with enough thought "unbalanced" classes can be made to be fun.

Like I said, I am not expecting to change AO with any of my sayings here, I am just voicing my opinion. Thanks for the cheesecake! ~.^

By the way, I find that my engineer is never aggroed if I simply stand in another room from my pet and the mob, where I cannot see them through the door. Although it may be different at higher levels.

[_____________Sraythe]

How many people actually read the article before posting here. Oooh, better yet, have you read the manual?

This is an oddity, normally I will read every post on a forum before responding to any of them, but there are just too many like this in this particular forum:

Originally posted by Paynie


So you guys are not gonna tune the Mob HP down... would you please go and have a look at high end level play then...

With a self cast bot as an engi I tested it, it's quite hard to solo 2 yellows at 108 for me...

Hmmm, could this be because yellow is supposed to mean that the creature is EQUAL in skill to you?

Think about this:
You are a heavyweight boxer, and you are lined up for a match. Your opponent is of the same age, weight, and skill level as you (By definition a Yellow).

This is a tough fight, but definately not impossible.

Now think about this:
You are in the same fight mentioned above, but to make it more interesting, your opponents twin brother who is at the same skill level and weight (again, yellow by definition) as both you and your opponent will also be fighting you - At the same time that you are taking on your original opponent (i.e. soloing two yellows).

This is not only a tough fight, but one that is bloody well near impossible.

I have to admit that it is really starting to get on my nerves that so many people post in here to complain that they are unable to slaughter every red monster that they come across with no problem. By definition, it should be very difficult for you to kill anything that appears red!! That is what red means!! Likewise, any fight with a yellow should, by definition, be a close call!! That is what yellow means.

If you want guaranteed kills without as much risk, hunt only green creatures. Why? Because that is what green means!!

Seriously people, think about what you complain about before you start complaining!!

[_____________Sraythe]

Originally posted by Bionitrous

If going from level 120 to 121 were just as much fun as going from 49 to 50 then people would enjoy the entire game from 1-200. Hell, they'd probably do it 8 times over with different characters. This makes sense you see? And as we know, you can't have that in Anarchy Online.

Oh, so your entire motivation in playing the game, and the only thing that makes the game fun for you is levelling?

One of the things you will notice about role-playing is that you cannot win! There is no winning, only surviving. What makes it fun is what you do whilst surviving. Constantly hunting creatures because you get a thrill when you hear that "ding" is not role-playing. If that is all you want, there are a number of games out there that allow you to do this, and are actually designed to do this. I suggest Unreal Tournament, it is exactly what you are looking for.

If you want to role-play, stop worrying about how quickly you can level, and just start living (in character).

Remember, this is an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game), not an MMOLG (Massively Multiplayer Online Leveling Game).

[_____________Sraythe]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow



The problem is that at level 108, you need about 2.3m exp to level. A yellow mob at that level might give you 7-10k exp.

That means you have to kill 230 yellow conned mobs (max 10k exp each) in order to level once.

Do you know how much time that will take?

Do you know why it is called a learning curve, and not a learning line?

You see, basic concepts are just that - basic. This means that you can pick up on them pretty quickly, and without too much effort.

Advanced concepts are just what they sound like - Advanced. It takes longer to learn these. The more advanced your knowledge becomes, the more advanced the concepts you have yet to learn are, and the longer they take to learn.

Levelling is nothing more than your character learning, and as such, you should not expect to get from level 100 to level 101 nearly as easily as you got from level 1 to level 2. Hell, you shouldn't expect the 100 to 101 transition to be as easy as the 99 to 100 transition for that matter.

Think about the concept behind the implementation before complaining about it, please.

[____________Halbundy]

Sraythe,

Stop telling people what to find enjoyable in the game. Some enjoy leveling and some arent good at it and find other things to enjoy, like "roleplaying". To each his own.

This patch takes away something from the people that enjoy leveling above all else, and gives nothing to those that 'roleplay' ...unless you call infringing on the enjoyment of the level oriented players as something good for roleplayers. Under the current circumstances, those that enjoy leveling can do so and those that 'roleplay' can enjoy that also.

The glee with which the so-called 'roleplayers' view this upcoming nerf is just more proof to me that 'roleplayers' are largely composed of people that wish they could level but just plain suck at it. What else can explain the bitterness that they ( the 'roleplayers' ) have towards those that play for levels ? It seems to be jealousy, pure and simple, because what one person can solo, in a solo mission, has no bearing on the performance of another player in their mission.

If you think that you shouldn't be able to kill two yellow mobs, then by all means limit your character's ability to do so. If I want to kill 3 red mobs in my missions and I'm capable of it, well that doesnt make you any better or worse so why do you care so much ? Why are you trying to enforce your view on me ?

PvP ? Do what it takes if you wanna be good at it. The game mechanics that allow OE allow everyone to do it....if you know how and have the resources. If you don't, get them. Everyone started out with one lvl 1 character at some point.

Stop worrying about what others are doing and work on your own character.

Halbundy

[____________Farraday]

Just a personal opinion, and something that I *don't* think should be applied here.

Taking away from the power levelers most definitely does help out us Roleplayers. For those of you who *are* roleplayers, you know how tough it is to maintain a character, and suspension of disbelief when you have some 1337 /\/\0r0/\/ right next to you "buff plz" or whatever else it does.

If you want to level, I don't begrudge you that right, but for the roleplayers it's an all or nothing deal. You *can't* do it if everyone isn't participating.

[Neoncoyote]

Well I have to say it... I am looking forward to 14.0

I like the OE rules (even thought I will be affected myself in a less then pleasent way But they seem fair.

I would request that Implants and such Not be touched in the future... if possible.

I LOVE the IP reset and I am glad I have never removed my quite messed up Engineer that I started Day one of this game. While he is only level 30 before Nurfings made him less than fun... I kept him for the day I could reset him. Now I will have 3 weeks of experimenting on him after I reset his IP =) I am looking forward to that... and I can also correct burnt IP from other nerfed characters I do still play.

I think I can honestly say this is the first patch I am really looking forward to!

Ah I cant remember though are Team Mission booth fixed yet or will they be in 14.0? I have been MIA lately.

Oh and one last thing... well two really in the patches that follow... make some functional and *attractive* weapons? Enough with the big ugly guns (is there weapon envy?) Or the guns that look like hams one needs to fist (biogun) Or the silly Giant Hammers. Every other aspect of this game has style, and then it's ruined with these silly cartoon weapons... and all the good looking weapons like the 'Shakey' are such a crummy weapon no one uses it. Dont let the Ugly & Silly sized weapons reduce the style of the game. Leave some big uglies for those with 'Weapon Envy' But those of us who spend time being fashion aware should not be forced to Use Vectors to survive when they are such a nast nasty looking weapon I would be Happy to consult for you on Attractive weapons with good sound effects as well

And Finally... Please for the Love of the Goddess Buffy... Put a Couch in the apartment item machines. I want to have company over, and I hate sitting on the floor all the time. I am not asking for anything other than A couch (Though you might want to make a tasteful audio system not the 'Big Nasty' that I paid some 20k creds for then deleated because it was so ugly... it's about Style

Keep up the great work!

-Koyote

[Krazakraith]

Ok i've been skimming through a lot of these posts, skimming because most of them are too long, so i'll get to the point, this is a great idea, it should've been implemented WHEN THE GAME WAS RELEASED. Right now the majority of the playerbase, especially pet classes, depend upon the way the system is now. This patch will rip the rug out from under them. And ppl wonder why there is such a strong opposition to this patch.

Basically if Funcom had taken the time to properly beta test the game...need i say more?