Overequipping and the IP reset: A follow-up

[_______________Elria]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
You can knock a quarter of the damage off of this level 100 item:

http://antiguardians.org/itemdb.php?&cmd=view&id=122914

with this nanoformula you can probably do by level 12:

http://antiguardians.org/itemdb.php?...ano=1&id=26399

(Yeah, I'm two points of debuff off. Through a Strength or Stamina debuff in there to finish off the job.)


The system is broken. The proposed changes are flawed. The fixes are haphazard, not well though-out, inelegant, and a mockery to the game-design and computer programming professions.

Gaute is showing his paying customers disrespect by not taking the high road and offering a PROPER fix that makes sense. Whether you support the changes or not, you are being disrespected by the lack of effort put into putting forth a PROFESSIONAL and SENSIBLE approach to making Character Skill Level matter more than Item Quality Level.

I'm just sorry that more of you players are not able to see the wool being pulled over your eyes, I'm really saddened to know these foaming at the mouth dogs starving for a bone are my peers and are so blinded they'll snap at anything, even a poisoned bone.

LOL
I like the style, there

Ok... Looking for an elegant, "PROFESSIONAL and SENSIBLE approach to making Character Skill Level matter more than Item Quality Level"... Here's my take on that:
First, Item QL is nothing, it is not used "as is" in the formulas, as far as I know. Item quality stands for a combination of several skill requirements: items can have 4, 5 ... skill requirements, the QL combines those and brings it down to a known scale (1-200); this way, one can make a quick estimation of between items, one can immediately know if a beam is a lot better than the other, for example. QL gives reference points.
The general rule is that a better item requires more skill to be used properly. Hence the link between Item QL and Character Skill Level: appropriately raising skills unlocks higher QL items. In theory, this is clean, and it is how it works for NFs: the only caps come from the skills (not levels, not title), so that is what we play with, using IPs, implants, buffs, items...
Funcom tried to make it work in the same way for armor/weapons with that old attempt at patching OE, but people did not like it, so it did not hit the Live servers. It was a zero-tolerance-to-OE patch, deactivating the items for which requirements were not met (just like NFs). That solution would have yielded an elegant, homogeneous system which would have had STRICTLY the same behaviour for every item/NF in the game.

What's my point?
In this patch, they try to fix OE while not being as harsh on weapon users. So, instead of totally deactivating your weapon (100% damage reduction), you get a 25% damage reduction and you don't absolutely have to switch weapons.

... Just remember, one SINGLE missing point in a required skill for a NF means the NF cannot be run.


However, I'm not saying "screw you". Someone else has proposed this earlier: compare current ATK vs required ATK. That may help a little.

Oh, and I think there are still options available for that support beam wielder, both before and during the fight. (As you have probably noticed in some of Crin's posts, above.)

[________________Unas]

Originally posted by hexxia
scenario: engi enters a PvP area.
trader ransacks engi.
pet cant respond
engi runs
trader roots engi.
trader risk vs engi: 0

Not just engies, any pet user. Even if the engie/MP/crat gets their pet to attack first, all the trader has to do is calm it, then proceed with your scenario.

I've got to admit, I love it. All these fools who thought this nerf would help them in PvP. Well people, you wanted it - you got it.

Enjoy.

Unas

[________________Unas]

Originally posted by Sarelron


Huh? Sounds right on. Two mobs your level, and it's hard to beat them. What's the problem?

Sarelron

The problem is that the player will probably have to do that 400 or more times before they are "rewarded" with a new level. Sounds brain numbingly boring, doesn't it?

Unas

[____________Ejeckted]

8. Shouldn't the over-equipping scheme be working gradually, instead of in steps?

No, I would like the OE to have distinct states - not a gradual reduction in power. This is much easier to understand for most people, I think.

he's practically calling us retarded . .

[________________Unas]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow



The problem is that at level 108, you need about 2.3m exp to level. A yellow mob at that level might give you 7-10k exp.

That means you have to kill 230 yellow conned mobs (max 10k exp each) in order to level once.

Do you know how much time that will take?

Hiya Lucid

Don't you realize that all we are is uber twinked over equipers who don't have the jam to play the game the way it was intended? Don't you realize that it's supposed to take us two weeks to get a level and that we should be sending a letter of thanks to Funcom when we do?

Yeah, I didn't either, but hey, what do I know?

As I said before, they asked for it, now they've got it.

Unas

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Scumbug


he's practically calling us retarded . .

Maybe it's just directed at you?

[____________DarkOmen]

We get castrated and the mobs stay the same--big mistake
See yas all in AC2 or Star Wars

Date of registration 2001-06-27 23:38:32 UTC
Account status Open until 2002-04-06
Subscription is cancelled
Next billing Not scheduled

[speardancer2]

OK, the Advent community can understand that there is no reasonable way, to go into every single character file, and figure out where each one was when the skill was changed from bluish to green.


Give us an "/IPR all" comand to use, that will simply reset all 90 skills, and give the amount of IP appropriate for our level. And of course, use up all 90 IPR points at once.

This will, of course, eliminate the effect of any IP bonuses the character may of earned. But make sure that's part of the warning the player is given before committing to this (have to have a confirmation box on this one.)

But there are probably enough players out there (like me) who have never seen, much less used one of these "IP rings" that were around, who simply want to make sure they get what is coming to them.

If the player has used something like an IP ring, they have to decide wether the extra points they may get from doing a full reset counteract the loss from not having the IP bonuses.


I didn't read most of the thread, so this has probably been suggested more than once.

I only have one other comment on this patch....


Test it!! and when you think you're done, Test it again!!


This is generaly a good idea, the reduction (it won't be an elimination) of OE. There are alot of people who will have to reset their expectations of what they can fight, those who can't will probably quit. But it will allow the game designers to bring the bar down far enough where the casual player can survive (will have to take the long road with greens) and the hard core player will still have an advantage.

my .02 creds

[________________Unas]

Originally posted by Merkaba715
I think that the people that supported this patch the most are going to be the most nerfed by it.

Example: NT's will no longer be able to even shoot traders after getting debuffed.

I support this patch, but not because I am a trader. I don't PvP much since at this point it has no value other than a title. But, in the future, when we can hold territories, I might start. The bad thing about this patch is that its going to make Traders the new PvP gods. What you have to remember, is that untill every profession is balanced, there will be an FC love child, purposely or accidently made, into a PvP god based on the current new rules of the patch. IE: NT's and any other profession that had a Stun nano a few patches ago. What is giving us traders such a bad rep, are the few twinkers that power level up a trader to 74 and twink him and then own everyone in PvP. This is going to be even worse after this next patch and bring even more undesirable PK'ers into our profession. Take a look at the trader board, we have the least posts out of any other profession. Point being, the PK'ers dont go into those boards, they arent part of the community. Please dont hate traders as a whole or yell nerf. I dont want to be the next agents.

I think we can pretty much guarantee that there will be so much whining and howling about traders in PvP that they will be nerfed into total impotence in a future patch, maybe even as soon as 14.4.

But, you guys asked for this upcoming nerf, so you get to live with the consequences. As has been so kindly pointed out to me, you can either adapt to the changes or quit.

Unas

[______________Scorus]

Originally posted by Beatenblue
Hm... I don't play an engy, but: If a NPC trader fights your bot, will he still cast a debuff on the engineer?

Yes, it is odd. I play an MP and a crat and a mob will stop what stop hitting my pet long enough to cast a nano on me and then go back to hitting my pet (though often there is no hesitation, they cast it at me while they are hitting it). They cast at my pet also, but they cast at me very frequently.

Scorus

[________________Unas]

Originally posted by Bionitrous

I'm just sorry that more of you players are not able to see the wool being pulled over your eyes, I'm really saddened to know these foaming at the mouth dogs starving for a bone are my peers and are so blinded they'll snap at anything, even a poisoned bone.

Equally frustrating is the knowledge that nothing said here or anywhere else will have any effect on Funcoms plans. They are going to do this and don't care about the consequences (even I don't believe they aren't aware of the consequences).

All I can really do now is laugh. The most recent article by Gaute has confirmed all of my worst case scenarios about this nerf. Weapon users are scr*wed, pet users are scr*wed, everyone is equally susceptible to a traders debuffs (mob or player). Damage and AC is reduced but mobs still have monster hit points and insane minimum damage. What can you do but laugh?

As some NT's have been saying in this thread, "welcome to their world". Funcom appears to have realized one of its most cherished dreams, we will now all be equally helpless.

Unas

[_____General Jinjinn]

Hmmm, do they realy think this will fly with the majority of their long standing customers? I know the IP reset is gona be great even though it will have a huge amount of problems at the start because I know they can't think out every possible situation until the masses put it ot the test. With time it will be awesome. Now for the OE rules they are putting in, I think not. I know most of their long term customers are not even willing to dish out another 60 bucks to wait out their soon to be made mistake. The ones I have talked to said they had plenty of time left on their accounts but as soon as the patch hits they are gona let it fade out and look for a new game to play. I guess I'll give them a try but I'm not one to play the real test bunny for their changes. I know they have a test team but that is what they are a test team, not the many "VALUED" customers that have to put up with the game they love being totaly cashed in for a long time. They say OE is a problem because everyone is doing it and having fun, maybe you should rethink the situation.

Jinjin, General of Entropy Dawn

[Shandrahs]

Originally posted by Unas


Equally frustrating is the knowledge that nothing said here or anywhere else will have any effect on Funcoms plans.

why would it? the majority seems to agree with all the points in 14,2.

Originally posted by Unas

Weapon users are scr*wed, pet users are scr*wed, everyone is equally susceptible to a traders debuffs (mob or player). Damage and AC is reduced but mobs still have monster hit points and insane minimum damage. What can you do but laugh?

Hmmm, you could try and actually play the game... 20% margin to OE (with no external buffs) and you can't do things that you are actually meant to do? I'm sure you can.

Originally posted by Unas

As some NT's have been saying in this thread, "welcome to their world". Funcom appears to have realized one of its most cherished dreams, we will now all be equally helpless.

Yes, indeed welcome to the NT world... where even the most pathetic yellow mob can send you to the reclaim if you aren't paying attention. (specially with a nanobreed )

STILL....

Originally posted by Elria

In this patch, they try to fix OE while not being as harsh on weapon users. So, instead of totally deactivating your weapon (100% damage reduction), you get a 25% damage reduction and you don't absolutely have to switch weapons.

... Just remember, one SINGLE missing point in a required skill for a NF means the NF cannot be run.

As you see (and probably knew already) EVEN with this patch the NT still keeps the largest end of the nerf stick up his rear.. so it can't be all that bad

[______________Rez-SN]

2001-06-29 07:09:26 UTC
Account status Open until 2002-03-22
Subscription is cancelled

[__________Mindswayer]

"So far, if a Trader de-buffs the Nano-Technician (NT), the NT should run for the exit or grid entrance. Now this is also true for some of the pet professions."

Hello? This is a design FLAW! No one nano/spell should render any class completely useless. This is something that should be fixed! Instead you extend this crap to include other professions?

"The difference is that a high NCU count would make people more social - they'd find team play more enjoyable etc. I don't want to affect that. That is why..."

So level 1's with QL 200 NCU's are OK with you because they need to talk to other people for the buffs they fill their exploited NCU with? What a garbage answer. You're letting the real super twinks like Megabio with his buffed level 13 that has more HP's than a level 70 character, just go on continue getting their cheap kills.

So those cheaters are ok because they play with others? Pfft what crap. Let them have the same damn amount of NCU as other Team Players who don't cheat.


"On the upside, all people using the infamous "IP Rings" back then, get to keep their IP spent!"

Oh really? They do? You mean the one's who may now have double the amount of IP they should have thanks to all the duped Rings of Knowledge? The same rings you can still find on eBay today. Oh and don't forget all the people who capitalized on the bugs that allowed you to add IP to your pool. So again you like to reward *true* exploiters? One of the main reasons many people wanted an IP reset was to fix such characters.

"Also, if they reset their abilities last, they might find they have some "illegally" high skills. We shall accept this."

Oh boy! Another flaw open for exploitation provided by Funcom! I can't wait to get my nanoskills to cap then reset Int,Psy, and put it all into Str Stam and be a NT/MP/Crat in full QL 200 Omni Pol Elite.

[Noe]

yes, but it will also hit the direct-damage dealing nano-program and weapon users. So far, if a Trader de-buffs the Nano-Technician (NT), the NT should run for the exit or grid entrance. Now this is also true for some of the pet professions.

well Im glad to see the changes coming in general... but this statement had me laughing...

what IS it you guys have against the NT's?

seems there is a morbid obsession w/ screwing us at every turn possible...

/shrug...

oh well, at least this one is not AIMED at the NT's, but basically what he is saying is that the end result is that is screws NT's...

grr.

[xbmspec]

If your going to make debuffs over powering with no counter.

Fix the Doctor's Elipson's Purge, damnit, how long will we wait for it?

Fix the Enforcer's Rage Line. They are supposed to break Roots. And Remove random Hostile Programs.

[___________x-genesis]

YAY, As the new patch comes down the pike, the balance of the game will shift, towards the trader. Now I know Trader's won't make any money anymore, after all casting wrangles were their bread and butter. But that's ok, even if you're going to be playing a merchant class that doesn't make any money, FEAR NOT, you WILL be the officially-sanctioned Over-Equipping class in AO. I mean, you can wrangle yourself over and over ad-nauseum and over-equip to your hearts content! And with one or 2 carefully placed debuffs you can easily cause players who have equipped without exploits or cheats to be CONSIDERED as over-equippers and recieve penalties to their damage...perhaps even make their pet 100% useless. Who needs money? I say we ALL start Traders today! The future of the market is bright!

[____________Surefoot]

Originally posted by EvilGlitch
"So far, if a Trader de-buffs the Nano-Technician (NT), the NT should run for the exit or grid entrance. Now this is also true for some of the pet professions."

Hello? This is a design FLAW! No one nano/spell should render any class completely useless. This is something that should be fixed! Instead you extend this crap to include other professions?

Actualy we've learned to cope with this by keeping a secondary hotkey bar of nanos we can use in case we get debuffed. We don't have to run if we're prepared. I'm sure other classes can learn to cope with debuffing just as we have.

[_____________Vicktor]

Man, this patch is gonna be great! After everyone buffs themselves to the max and buys that weapon thats 19.5% or 39.5% bigger then they are, guess where they are gonna be running to finish off the skill?!?! What, you dont know?!?! TRADERS! And when they step into that 0 or25% zone, who are they gonna be running from?!?! TRADERS! Oh, and when someone wants a weapon made or item created, what character is gonna be retired and maxed out in trades skills?!?!?! TRADERS! You can just guess how much that is gonna cost you lowbies! ROFL Its a good thing FC hasnt put a cap on the number of TREADERS we can make, because everyone is gonna have a trader or 2 in their char list.

I feel pity for all the mundane, average players. They are gonna suck in missions now (not jsut in PVP like before) and its gonna take them longer to get that legitimate IP.

Ok, enough of the sarcasm. Back to business.

I am a trader and i love the patch. Both fot it limiting the twinking to some extent. People (myself included) are going to find new ways to twing, wither IP reallocation or illigetimate means (myelf not included in this part), and the average player is always gonna be....whats the word ... AVERAGE. But traders will not be the "End All" in PVP. A well built NT can completely topple a trader int he time it takes to wrangle him. MP's can do the same. And we all know what a MA can do.

This patch ewas designed to affect the younger players more than the higher levels. And, after much research and algebra, its decided that this patch will in now way affect my lvl 130 gun on my 60 trader, or my lvl 60 gun on my 15 trader, or my lvl 60 gun on my 35 crat (and yes, she can charm lvl 70's).

So, CARRY ON FC. This is exactly what ew need, more ways to twink ourselves to high heaven!