Crats are going to be one of the hardest hit pet professions. Crats must use OE's nano-charms in order to help themselves fight monsters worth fighting. The same goes for engineers and MP's. I believe that the pet professions will be completely gimped from here on out. However, I do agree with the changes, and I think that the IPR deal is a big step to a great goal.
I just don't want to see the pet professions die out =)
I THINK you are trying to say that people will just use IPR to drop their comp lit back down to nothing after equipping NCU.Man this is realy unfair, so i have green Computer Literacy, can i please change this free skill for another oofh say dark Blue Full auto, it will be much more usefull to me. This is very very unfair, you cannot arbitrarily decide wich skills to include on the OE (i understand your explanation on the implants, and have to agree) but you are negating the advantage of Classes with Green CL skill, unless you agree with me that the skill color on the classes is unbalanced to start with, because classes with bad CL are getting oen free skill and classes with Ggood CL are not getting much at all, if you told me that each class got to choose one free skill of choice that would be fair (redicolous, but fair). You have all the reasons to include NCUs and even all the HUD items on the OE checks.... i'm affraid i cannot take much more of the unfairnesses in this game, i have Real life to give me that.
Only a moron would do this.
Unless you are sitting in a six slot belt with six QL 200 NCU units in, you will always need to upgrade.
Unless you are willing to restrict your travel to whompahs and running/flying everywhere you won't do this, because everyone uses the Grid.
Unless you are rolling in credits computer literacty gets you more money from sales and cheaper prices when buying.
NCU Optimizers, Heatsink Coolants, Range Increasers, Shades of Lucibration.... plenty of reasons to keep your comp lit high.
Fausto "Dealbreaker" Age
Gaute please anwser this.
The new SMG have the highest requirements in the game and are the worst weapons.
I have ql200 implants and i am maxed on all abilities and SMG until lvl 190 at wich point my skills will raise a max of 50 points, right now i can selfbuff myself to 913, even with +50 that is 963 points at lvl 200 (im currently 172) the MCS ql 200 requires 1061 in SMG, i will not be able to self equip it, i will need a wrangle jsut to equip it, if i get my skill debuffed to 848 i am incuring on a -25% penalty, that is just -115 debuff, with the current state of nanoreist (does NOT work PERIODE) just about any trader can make a lvl 200 Fixer quite useless, not onyl will their attack rate be worth nothing the weapon will be 25% less effective.
So i cannot self equip a weapon my own lvl i am supposed to me an expert on (SMG) and i am prety much useless if i meet a trader 120+ even if im lvl 200.
Please comment, are you going to adjust weapon requirements after the OE patch? or give classes with a good (green) weapon skill a buff in that skill?
Please help!
This patch WILL screw people in it's current form. Read the math that myself and some others have posted. Weapons and nanos perform differently, and with a percentage based system the balance is NOT there.I'm not pushing for everyone to get screwed. As far as I'm concerned no one got screwed in the upcoming patch. It is just more balanced and people are now feeling the difficulties that NTs have felt all along. The balance in itself is justified. There is no screwing going on at all.
Again, you are basically saying 'I have been gimped, now you get to feel it too, haha'.
That doesn't fix a damn thing.
Fausto "Dealbreaker" Age
From the last OE article:Originally posted by Asmodan
I THINK you are trying to say that people will just use IPR to drop their comp lit back down to nothing after equipping NCU.
"You cannot wear anything - no implants, no armour, no NCUs - nothing - when you use the IPR."
Something more to invalidate this claim.
Sarelron
Originally posted by Asmodan
I THINK you are trying to say that people will just use IPR to drop their comp lit back down to nothing after equipping NCU.
Only a moron would do this.
Unless you are sitting in a six slot belt with six QL 200 NCU units in, you will always need to upgrade.
Unless you are willing to restrict your travel to whompahs and running/flying everywhere you won't do this, because everyone uses the Grid.
Unless you are rolling in credits computer literacty gets you more money from sales and cheaper prices when buying.
NCU Optimizers, Heatsink Coolants, Range Increasers, Shades of Lucibration.... plenty of reasons to keep your comp lit high.
i'm refferring to QL 200 NCU requiring 750 skill and you can go anywhere in the grid with 451 if im not mistaken.
People can get very high CL with implants and then drop them for other implants once the NCU is in, this is the major form of OE in the game. i'm just saying that if i have green CL its for class balance, if my Green skill is going to be free for everyone then i want to get a free skill myself, because i am at a loss here, even more inbalanced. If they do it then do it right and do it fair for all.
to give an exemple is like saying:
Character A has green "damage" and blue "evade" skill
character B has Blue "damage" and green "" evade" skill
then you say ok, evade skill is free for all
now you got:
character A with High Damage and free evade
Character B low damage and free evade
do you see my point now, give me free "damage" because i dont have it.
My CL is green their not giving me anything, i want free Full auto then
and its not just a matter of IPs or class balance, its amatter of OE balance.
Last edited by Hextorr; Mar 15th, 2002 at 22:26:02.
IPR is a good thing.
However I don't understand why FC want to allow us to reset also our abilities. Sounds kinda stupid to me.
New OE rules are crappy.
Duh, can't beleive I forgot that one :POriginally posted by Sarelron
From the last OE article:
"You cannot wear anything - no implants, no armour, no NCUs - nothing - when you use the IPR."
Something more to invalidate this claim.
Sarelron
Fausto "Dealbreaker" Age
I realy don't know what is going to happen... Trader's (nothign against the people who play them) is a proffession that seems out of this game, it rules over all the other classes, with this patch it will be even worst. This game has many many many inbalances.
Regardless of not being able to actually have NCU in and do the IPR, I still have not the slightest clue what you are trying to say.Originally posted by Hextorr
i'm refferring to QL 200 NCU requiring 750 skill and you can go anywhere in the grid with 451 if im not mistaken.
People can get very high CL with implants and then drop them for other implants once the NCU is in, this is the major form of OE in the game. i'm just saying that if i have green CL its for class balance, if my Green skill is going to be free for everyone then i want to get a free skill myself, because i am at a loss here, even more inbalanced. If they do it then do it right and do it fair for all.
to give an exemple is like saying:
Character A has green "damage" and blue "evade" skill
character B has Blue "damage" and green "" evade" skill
then you say ok, evade skill is free for all
now you got:
character A with High Damage and free evade
Character B low damage and free evade
do you see my point now, give me free "damage" because i dont have it.
My CL is green their not giving me anything, i want free Full auto then
and its not just a matter of IPs or class balance, its amatter of OE balance.
You having a green skill in comp lit is an advantage regardless if other people OE NCU. You have green skill, you can OE better NCU for less IP than someone who has blue comp lit.
Or since you have it green you might be able to get the same quality of NCU in without having to mess around with over equipping.
Regardless, a character with green comp lit will always have more comp lit than someone with blue comp lit, assuming both do the same things (implants, etc)
The ONLY thing that was broken with comp lit was the tutoring kit bug, and that's been fixed.
Fausto "Dealbreaker" Age
OE Vs. Pet classes
OK, I have passively sat by and watched but now the time has come to voice my 2 cents. The recent posts on IP resets and OE changes thathave been posted seem nice at first but there are underlying effects of this that Funcom as a developer could not have possibly overlooked. The armor/Gun changes yea that's all nice...whatever, that doesn't effect much of anyone except for low lv twinkers. After your armor stats reach around 400 they have no effect whatsoever because no matter what buffs are added you cannot buff into any armor that is 20% higher then your skill. The buffs just dont reach that high. As for twinkers, if their gun is like 21% too high then yes they would be better off using a gun thats 18% too high. What is not mentioned is the fact that if their gun was high enough, say 60% over their skill, fi you take off 20% dmg then it would still do far more dmg then a 19% high gun so why bother using a lower ql one? Based on that, the real twinkers, the lv 15s with q 125 guns on would not really be affected, they would still be doing 4x the dmg they should be doing and gaining great game advantage. Now the pet classes... This is not a small note on a page like Gaute tried to make it, this is HUGE. My main char is a 118 engineer with over a month /played I can and have been able for a while to mocham+wrangle into a q200 slayerdroid. I still die very often and have not gained anything great from using him except mobs die faster. No matter what pet I'm using if I get aggroed and takes 3-6 good hits, I drop dead. Doesn't matter if I am using a q100 or q200 bot. Especially when i enter a mission with 3 mobs in the first room pet goes on one 2 aggro me and I die in roughly 8 seconds maybe 10. The fact that I can buff into basically the best possibkle pet does not mean I don't die or I totally destroy everything I see. Usually means I am fighting harder things and just die easier when atatcked. The 20% debuff rule will completely destroy ALL MPs, Crats, and Engies. (who happen to be the bigegr tradeskills guys and buffers in the game)Doing some calculations, a trader at around lv 90 could go ransack/deprive into a higher set of ransack/deprives. Nuke myself and say a 118 MP friend of mine with the debuffs then simply drop us as we stood there helpless with our pets standing there like fools. This is not a small issue and would throw the entire game so far outof balance that I am sure you would lsoe thousands of players, or everyone would go make traders since one trader of a way lower lv could simply own ANY and every MP, NT, Engie, or Crat he ran across. Effects to pet damage as if it were a gun would be a more logical approach, but making a pet just go into behind mode and tsand there is a sure death sentence for any of the above mentioned classes. It would completely destroy all gameplay and remove the fun from the game, as well as making traders BY FAR the most powerful class in game as one could in all actuality sneak up in a 25% zone and wipe out an entire pet group. After the patch when their current class just got destroyed all the former mps and engies are gonan go make traders and wouldn't a server thats 40% traders be out of balance also? Most pet classes have either pillows or low ql guns because our ip is into pet skills. Taking away our pet at anytime makes us completely uselsss sitting ducks and all that could happen is death. I could be in a mission that i got buffed got my slayerdroid and went to do, get halfway done and mochams wear off and pet doesn't work. With the new moving mob rules, odds are theres a mob or two between me and the door so I would die and lose all my exp ont he way out to fly way back into town to go and find another mocham so my pet will respond again......doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Whoever reads this and sees my point plz post and send message to funcom, everyone needs to realize that this is gonna throw the game way farther out of balance and hurt more then help....let the lv 10s have their q80 guns if they wanan waste 5 hrs getting em on to go to the arena. If by ending that you destroy thousands of 100+ lv chars that keep the economy and player/player interaction going then do that if you like...I just fear that the numer of players will take a huge drop and there won't be many people left to even cast the mochams or infuses much elss repeatedly when they wear off. After the mps get owned everytime they try to do a mission in efp or mort they're gonna quit the game ormake a new char. And no MPs Engies NTs or Crats and 3 times the amount of tradetrs is gonna completely restructure the entire game whether the developers believe so or not. Thank you all for the time fo reading this long post and I hope i turned some bells on somewhere and got some people thinkin.
Sincerely,
Frogchick-- Unit Commander-The Syndicate
118 Engineer (and in response to recent accusations by an annamed group or jealous people, I am no exploiter, all my skills are legitimate and fair and feel free to check them if you like)
ok nevermind me, just look at all the people runnign arround with huge NCUs for their lvl getting all the big buffs they shouldn't have. OE resides on the NCU first and foremost, its just a matter of beeing fair, this things cannot be arbitarily.
The argument for this patch is directed in the wrong direction.
The problem has always been the debuffs. Its silly that one nano skill can debuff you 50 levels worth of skills across the board. Not to mention stack with another to debuff you for over 100 levels worth of skill across the board.
Then you factor in non-existent nano resist skills and you start getting a headache.
This just isnt a problem with Deprives/plunder line though. Other nanos which decrease Inits by like 2400 points which is over 300 levels or more of skills being decreased across the board.
Or heck 650 conceal that stacks with other forms of conceal. Any nano that increases that much when so many other of the professions cant even get one buff or debuff will unbalance the professions.
This is what the problem is, have them take the nanos away from the NPCs until it can be fixed. But, this system is fair and should be in place. So go after the real problem and stop attacking the idea.
Ignorant: Someone who doesn't realize that a player might not play a MA or NT but can understand their problems. You don't have to be lazy to want the patch, just smart enough to figure out that there were imbalances in the game that needed to be fixed.Originally posted by Ironphist
Sure. . . now let's define "lazy" or "ignorant" : Anyone who has the ability to overequip to make their character the strongest that it can be, but don't. They are the ones that are saying things like:
"this patch is super-swell Gaute. . . thank you oh so much. Funcom really listens to its players"
This of course doesn't apply to MA's or NT's. . . I can see why an OE patch will be a good thing for them, since they are unable to overequip their main forms of damage.
BTW, Any player that wasn't very good before the nerf, won't be very good after the nerf either. The intellegence has shifted from the equipping part of the game to battle tactics.
About traders, MPs and the other profession...
hi,
First, sorry for my bad english...
then,
1. regarding traders:
When people say that wrangles will be useless with the 14.2 patch, this is not really true. An example :
A soldier with 310 in energy weapon. He can buff himself by 70 with the soldier energy weapon buff, +20 with the general buff -> 400 in this skill.
400*120%=480, so he can equip a gun requiring 480. Where to find this 80 buff?: wrangles.
He just has to be careful of keeping buffed (400 in the skill).
So wrangles will still be usefull.
One of my characters is a trader lvl 30, with my good implants and deprive/ransack I can wrangle around 36-40, but people of my level don't want this wrangle because they find it too low, they want one around 100...
I think with this patch, each trader will be usefull to people around his level what is a good social thing...
2. regarding MPs
one of my characters is a lvl 80 MP. I made my own implants : ql 125. with them I can use a ql 113 healer pet and a ql 116 attack pet. I always keep my buff on to be sure to be able to create my pets if they die. I can solo lvl 100 missions with those pets, and sometimes lvl 115. Just to say that I think that MPs won't be affected by the patch but when fighting traders or other people that can debuff...
3. regarding Engineers
another of my characters is a lvl 84 engineer. With my implants (ql 125), I can use a ql 119 bot. with it I can solo lvl 100-105 mission. I just need to be careful and to keep general buff on to be able to create a new bot. Sometimes it's very hard (2 or 3 mobs in a room, people that can root...) but usually I can do those missions. So I disagree with those people who say that engineers need a much higher bot to do missions and get nice xp.
That takes some time to do those missions, I cant get a new level in 1 hour... but xp are not so bad...
4. regarding the other profession
I agree that soldiers will be disadvantaged by the patch regarding armors but not really with guns (they have their own self buff). Enforcers will still be able to self buff them to get a nice armor and also nice weapons.
Those 2 professions will be weaker but not as much as some people are thinking. Instead of using a ql 200 hammer or nova at level 20, they will use it at level 60...
It seems that MA won't be affected by the patch or only for the armors.
I don't really know for the other professions, I don't think crats use extra buff to create their pets. same for NTs.. Agents will have some troubles with their rifle but as soldiers and enforcers will have too (they still have sniper bliss...)
5. The problem
I think the main problem will be the debuff progs. I totaly agree that traders will be very strong in PvP. And I also totaly agree that fighting a trader (or other people that can debuff) in PvM for pet masters or even for weapon users will be very hard even impossible.
I think that's the main problem...
END.
If you think I'm wrong, no problem, I'm opened to all ideas but please don't be agressive in your replies. I red a lot of messages on this forum and a lot of them were agressive. I can understand that some of you disagree with the patch but I'm not sure this behaviour can help...
Thanks for your attention
'battle tactics' oh, lord what a laugh.
On that note ... I'm out of here.
<hahaha ... chuckles on his way out to his car>
hahahaha .... 'battle tactics' he said
haha
Yes it will fix something. The playing field will be leveld. That has to happen first before any other changes can take place.Originally posted by Asmodan
Again, you are basically saying 'I have been gimped, now you get to feel it too, haha'.
That doesn't fix a damn thing.
Amen..
Amen.Last Posted by NikkiDial
This is what the problem is, have them take the nanos away from the NPCs until it can be fixed. But, this system is fair and should be in place. So go after the real problem and stop attacking the idea.
The problems with NPC traders and MPs in missions have always been the debuffs. I am completely in favor for full removal of this nano line for NPCs for two reasons.
First, all npcs of these types chain cast them far too often in missions and they also seem to know when the debuff is going to wear off - instacasting a new debuff to overwrite the first one milliseconds before its going to disappear.
Second, Traders and MPs cannot debuff these NPCs in missions. Debuffing the NPCs still allows the NPCs to fully cast their own debuffs.
---
As for PvP, I stated this atleast 15 times in many posts in many forums: Traders and MP debuffs need to be 50 percent resistable in PvP and in PvP only the effects should only last from 15 to 30 seconds period.
Why?
See people, this pacth is opening up a whole can of worms that I don't think ANYONE wants to deal with. The after-effects of this patch will be felt for a long long time. I don't think the devs have even scratched the surface of what this can really do to damage this game. The headaches will be severe, and I imagine that the problems it introduces will take a long time to weed out and get fixed. Meanwhile everyone will suffer.Originally posted by Hextorr
Gaute please anwser this.
The new SMG have the highest requirements in the game and are the worst weapons.
I have ql200 implants and i am maxed on all abilities and SMG until lvl 190 at wich point my skills will raise a max of 50 points, right now i can selfbuff myself to 913, even with +50 that is 963 points at lvl 200 (im currently 172) the MCS ql 200 requires 1061 in SMG, i will not be able to self equip it, i will need a wrangle jsut to equip it, if i get my skill debuffed to 848 i am incuring on a -25% penalty, that is just -115 debuff, with the current state of nanoreist (does NOT work PERIODE) just about any trader can make a lvl 200 Fixer quite useless, not onyl will their attack rate be worth nothing the weapon will be 25% less effective.
So i cannot self equip a weapon my own lvl i am supposed to me an expert on (SMG) and i am prety much useless if i meet a trader 120+ even if im lvl 200.
Please comment, are you going to adjust weapon requirements after the OE patch? or give classes with a good (green) weapon skill a buff in that skill?
Please help!
And no one has been able to tell me WHY this is a Good Thing (tm). Everyone says "Oh, I am 100% behind this." Why? Unless you are a NT or MA then you should be hating this. I *AM* an MA and I hate it, because I play other classes too.
If you are going to quote the holy grail of Balance, then save your breath. Too many imbalances exist in the basic class abilities. MP can put superbuffs on themselves for skills that are integral to OEing themselves a nice angry pet. Engineers, who are even more reliant on their SINGLE pet cannot do this. Is that fair? Is that balanced? No it's not and nerfing the ability to wear a big powerful gun is not going to solve that inbalance.
An NT (or that Engineer or anyone except poor MAs) can get buffed into a big weapon that helps make up for some of the percieved problems inherent in that class. Plus they have some pretty cool buffs of their own that I think are unique or close to it at least. NP Regen and Nano range increaser. These abilities in of of themselves are pretty powerful IMO. I'm not trying to downplay the problems that NTs have, not at all. I have a NT too and I think it's fun to play, but it does seem underpowered. If I could change that I would.
But the fact is thatthe rampant nerfing everyone else is not going to change the plight of underpowered classes. The problems with these classes run much deeper. If anyone can tell me WHY this is a good thing for ME a Martial Artist, i will be happy to listen. Until that, I reiterate my 100% against stand.
Obviously you have none. You must be one of those types that just over equipped, got into a fight, pressed "Q" and went to the bathroom.Originally posted by Bionitrous
'battle tactics' oh, lord what a laugh.
On that note ... I'm out of here.
<hahaha ... chuckles on his way out to his car>
hahahaha .... 'battle tactics' he said
haha
How about figuring out which debuffs will work best against your oponent.
How about figuring out if you would do better to cast some debuffs or attack before you get debuffed.
How about trying to decide the best target to attack in PvP. Healer, Nano Debuffer, weapon Debuffer.
Now it really would be a good idea to send a stealthy class (when Conceal works in PvP) in first to find out who you are fighting and pick targets before ganking someone.
...
Just like I thought. The over equippers really are the lazy ones.
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