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Thread: traders.....

  1. #41
    Originally posted by Piikey


    Doctor - can also raise shotgun just as much as a trader or adven. They can chain cast cheaper heals (obviously ). They also have the huge advantage of Init debuffs. I was testing these with a doc friend of mine and at one point she put this on me http://antiguardians.org/itemdb.php?...ano=1&id=99585 needless to say she might as well have frozen me to the ground 2 mins, because I could neither shoot fast (or well for that matter) nor could I cast anything...meanwhile she was happily plugging away at me with her Ithaca and killing me at her leisure. Sure I can debuff docs, but so can they and it really comes down to who gets the first debuff off which determines who will win these. Docs can use the same gun that traders can, they can heal, and they can debuff. All they cant do is root/mezz, so like the adven they are 3 out of the 4.

    Ok, lets set the record straight. Unless she was chain casting that nano on you...there's no way it stayed on you for more than 1 shot of hers. That "Huge init debuff" that everyone screams about is just like a root...lasts until the target is damaged. I'm tired of everyone seeing big numbers on one of our lines of init debuffs (there's two distinct lines) and thinking they are godly.

    The only "line" of init debuffs worth any time is the lower init/higher damage debuff.

    Traders depriving/ransacking a Doc do it regardless if they are init debuffed. It still pretty much shuts down a Doc's ability to effectively heal.

    MP's throwing Nano Shutdown on us even if Init debuffed still removes ALL healing abilities.

    NT's throwing a Frost line on us (the higher versions) pretty much shuts down a Doc's ability to effectively heal.

    Yes Docs are very successful against non-healing/slow, consistant damage over time professions....but so is ANY other class. That's why most Fixers that use a Mausser in PvP either have to eventually grid away or end up dead. Sure they do decent damage...but they dont' have the instant 1/2/3 crit and yer dead ability.

    Originally posted by Spyder9

    I see every profession now using or switching to an ithaca. I see Agents with Ithacas now.
    People have started switching to Ithaca due to:
    1. Fast attack/recharge (ideal for dark blue ranged init professions)
    2. 2 Specials (Aimed/Fling)
    3. Checks against Duck Explosion. (which lots of people still don't raise for some odd reason I can't understand).
    4. Decent clip.
    5. Ideal for use with a Low Light Targetting Scope.
    6. Decent crit ability. (Krutt/Home Defender/Vektor all actually crit higher but are slower with low init).

    Ithaca really really sucks when you meet someone with good AC and/or good Duck Explosion. If you meet someone like that, you quickly hit for min damage (about 13), and rarely crit unless you have an uber crit buff.

    Even if you are not hitting for min damage...the normal shots of the Ithaca are terrible.

    And on a side note... "I" started the Ithaca trend.

    -Fed (aka Yense)
    Last edited by Federot; Mar 15th, 2002 at 06:21:06.

  2. #42
    Originally posted by Spyder9


    UVC rules PvP not any particular class.

    you hit the nail on the head.

    make MA crit buffs self-only
    or preferably very short duration team-only
    and everything changes.

    being able to get a massive crit buff
    then run around critting every other hit for an hour is silly.

    without a crit buff, my title4 trader dies to greens/yellows in PvM.
    (so the class can't afford a nerf without becoming unsolable)

    I personally dont bother with PvP anymore.
    I dont care enough to bug an MA every hour for UVC.
    and without it, it's hard for a Trader to survive long enough
    to crit so many times. (traders have very low HP)

    btw - trader heals are bugged since new PvP rules.
    they're better than they're supposed to be atm.
    their heals are really just for healing other people,
    because of the self damage or DoT they inflict;
    but since the 50% damage thing the damage/DoT
    of the heals has been halved too. lol.

    do something about crit buffs.
    fix trader heals.
    and it's a different situation.

  3. #43

    Re: traders.....

    Originally posted by Ouzzelle
    here go's...

    /I can't believe all the lil traders taht stand in the arena thinkin they're the shiznit, and calling everyone else "scared nOObs" when all you are is an Unoriginal, Trend Following, nOOb, that's too afraid to TRY SOMETHING OriGinal!

    are you mental? traders make up less than 5% of the total population of characters in the game....how does that equate to being unoriginal?
    +Tekniker 142 Engineer
    +Xiaopingxu 121 Fixer
    +Stongrel 135 MA
    +Ukkonen 100 Agent
    +Pixelation 79 NT
    The Flying Frog Brigade

  4. #44
    hmmm, maybe they are only 5% in the game, but how many traders do you see in the arena? or MMd? or 2ho? i'd say if there are ten ppl standing in the arena, five of them are traders.

    BTW, if a trader can get his debuff on, your screwed. (even worse with 14.2) if a trader debuffs you in arena, and your remaining skill is less than the 20% OE grace, your weapon will ONLY DO 25% of it's damage potential. (-50% already in PvP, and another -25% for OE penalty)

    and if your a pet class, your just outright F*CKED.

    well, i take that last one back... Melee Advs, are takin the shaft yet again with 14.2.. the weapons they use are Rider Execs, and they HAVE to be OE'd to be worth anything.
    Ouzzelle: It's an O damnit! not a Q!... and it's pronounced Weasel to you omnis.....

    Clanners call me Ozzy

    Duffer1: SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!
    Riddance Jr.: Is it dead?

  5. #45

    Re: Re: traders.....

    Originally posted by Ukkonen



    are you mental? traders make up less than 5% of the total population of characters in the game....how does that equate to being unoriginal?
    5%? its ur imagination or u have some information about it?

  6. #46
    Originally posted by Federot
    NT's throwing a Frost line on us (the higher versions) pretty much shuts down a Doc's ability to effectively heal.

    I dont agree at all. With that slow debuff running, and I got a Crown running on you, you will outheal my nukes alot more than if both was not debuffed.

    Nukes are totally useless when I got a slow debuff running, cause if I start to nuke, I am "rooted", because nobody can move as long as you are executing. I will nuke just as fast as a -lvl 50 NT with the 1500 init debuff, and thats damn slow, think about a lvl 1 NT casting nukes such as LDI (871 MC), and reduce the init by 300 more + add max def to it which reduces it about 300 more, then its not very useful to nuke... One nuke every 12 secs (max, maybe more, 15 secs inc recharge is more probable) is nothing you cant deal with, no matter how debuffed you are by the NT.

    So, your heals will always be more effective than NT nukes, debuffed or not, and with the 100% heals vs 50% dmg rules, heals are totally uber.

    And becuase NTs and Docs can use same weapon with same skill, the doc will ALWAYS have the upper hand, no matter what.
    Last edited by Garzu; Mar 16th, 2002 at 18:21:30.
    NT phone HOME!!

  7. #47

    Re: Re: Re: traders.....

    Originally posted by loca


    5%? its ur imagination or u have some information about it?
    http://antiguardians.org/stats.php

    actually it is 4.52% atm
    ~Lone

  8. #48

    Not exactly

    it's 4.52 of every character ever created that is in a guild. It includes lapsed subscriptions, but doesn't include 'independent' characters. It's defnitely not a good basis on which to found statistical claims.

  9. #49
    So you say that traders are less in guilds than others?

    uhmm... don't think so. ;p
    ~Lone

  10. #50

    Not at all

    what I'm saying is that the number means nothing. It excludes a valid population (non-guilded) and includes an invalid one (cancelled accounts). So, it bears no resemblence to the actual count of anything.

  11. #51
    ROFL,

    now i really had to post on THAT thread.

    Whoever said that a High level Doc (with Cheal mind j00) is better then a high level Trader in Pvp is a TOTAL deadhead. I mean i'm not exactly weak and i'm 99% certain i could own ANY self buffed bum class out there (that is if they didn't run away if their measly Alpha Strikes don't scratch me, HELLOOOO Soldier wimps), EXCEPT for Traders!

    I'll tell you what usually happens:

    Player DumbassTrader#1 forces your NCU to Run UberDivest Skills

    Meaning, i can't shoot right, i can't punch right, and of COURSE i can't cast right (No Debuffs, No Complete Heals, No Dots).

    Then i either run, or i get rooted and killed (in 3 shots or so, but hey i only got 7k+ hp, right?).
    Fun huh?

    You know what the problem with Traders is? Their debuffs, they're A. Too strong and B. Too broad spectrum (ie. Nano AND Attack skills). Divest/Ransack should be made unstackable, and split into 2 different categories, Nano Divest and Weapon Divest. (One of the reasons why i laugh at MPs is, they can't debuff all my nano skills at once, i can at least get a dot or a debuff off, with a trader debuff I (and everyone else) is hosed.)

    Sides, if you think Traders will get too strong after 14.2, go to the Next Patch forum, read my Post and Support it!

    regards

    Needlz, Smart Nerfing requires a Brain

  12. #52
    Originally posted by Noer
    So you say that traders are less in guilds than others?

    uhmm... don't think so. ;p

    Who cares really, its a fact that there is more and more traders popping up everywhere, they have all discovered the Trader uberness.
    NT phone HOME!!

  13. #53
    Originally posted by Garzu



    I dont agree at all. With that slow debuff running, and I got a Crown running on you, you will outheal my nukes alot more than if both was not debuffed.

    Nukes are totally useless when I got a slow debuff running, cause if I start to nuke, I am "rooted", because nobody can move as long as you are executing. I will nuke just as fast as a -lvl 50 NT with the 1500 init debuff, and thats damn slow, think about a lvl 1 NT casting nukes such as LDI (871 MC), and reduce the init by 300 more + add max def to it which reduces it about 300 more, then its not very useful to nuke... One nuke every 12 secs (max, maybe more, 15 secs inc recharge is more probable) is nothing you cant deal with, no matter how debuffed you are by the NT.

    So, your heals will always be more effective than NT nukes, debuffed or not, and with the 100% heals vs 50% dmg rules, heals are totally uber.

    And becuase NTs and Docs can use same weapon with same skill, the doc will ALWAYS have the upper hand, no matter what.
    Not true Garzu...he who casts first WINS.

    I killed a Trader today...a level 142 Trader. Fair fight...no camping/grid jumping...etc.
    I was able to cast first...so I won. Had she cast first...she would have won, end of story.

    Garzu.."you" can kill Docs easy...Crown, Alpha, chain Crown...forget them. Most other NT's aren't as uber as you though =p. The good debuffs take hella skill to cast..and are very easy to prevent.

    -Fed (aka Yense)
    Last edited by Federot; Mar 17th, 2002 at 09:58:47.

  14. #54
    Originally posted by Needlz
    ROFL,

    now i really had to post on THAT thread.

    Whoever said that a High level Doc (with Cheal mind j00) is better then a high level Trader in Pvp is a TOTAL deadhead. I mean i'm not exactly weak and i'm 99% certain i could own ANY self buffed bum class out there (that is if they didn't run away if their measly Alpha Strikes don't scratch me, HELLOOOO Soldier wimps), EXCEPT for Traders!

    I'll tell you what usually happens:

    Player DumbassTrader#1 forces your NCU to Run UberDivest Skills

    Meaning, i can't shoot right, i can't punch right, and of COURSE i can't cast right (No Debuffs, No Complete Heals, No Dots).

    Then i either run, or i get rooted and killed (in 3 shots or so, but hey i only got 7k+ hp, right?).
    Fun huh?

    You know what the problem with Traders is? Their debuffs, they're A. Too strong and B. Too broad spectrum (ie. Nano AND Attack skills). Divest/Ransack should be made unstackable, and split into 2 different categories, Nano Divest and Weapon Divest. (One of the reasons why i laugh at MPs is, they can't debuff all my nano skills at once, i can at least get a dot or a debuff off, with a trader debuff I (and everyone else) is hosed.)

    Sides, if you think Traders will get too strong after 14.2, go to the Next Patch forum, read my Post and Support it!

    regards

    Needlz, Smart Nerfing requires a Brain
    Have you ever tried init-debuffing a trader and seen the effect of it? An equal level doc against an equal level trader is 50/50. Whoever debuffs first wins.
    ~Lone

  15. #55
    Very true noer
    Same goes with MP <-> Trader
    Euphorie 200 Trader RK1
    DrAlban 130+ Doctor RK1

  16. #56
    I agree with ozzy, NERF THE TRADERS!!!!

    they are by far the most overpowered character in the game. all this and they are supposed to be a shop merchant. Funcom, please remove the following abilities from traders:

    - Charm/Calm
    - Heals (way too much healing power here)
    - Deprive skills
    - Roots
    - Remove thier high dmg, shop owners shouldnt be able to hit with 4000 every shot.
    - Wrangels - make max about 50, not 132.
    - comp lit buff

    Trader should only be able to buy stuff for real cheap from the stores and have alot of money, nothing more.

    I hate traders..nothing personal, except to the traders that have become cocks due to all these powers.

  17. #57
    Originally posted by Noer


    Have you ever tried init-debuffing a trader and seen the effect of it? An equal level doc against an equal level trader is 50/50. Whoever debuffs first wins.

    Agree, nerf them both.
    NT phone HOME!!

  18. #58
    Originally posted by Federot


    Not true Garzu...he who casts first WINS.

    I killed a Trader today...a level 142 Trader. Fair fight...no camping/grid jumping...etc.
    I was able to cast first...so I won. Had she cast first...she would have won, end of story.

    Garzu.."you" can kill Docs easy...Crown, Alpha, chain Crown...forget them. Most other NT's aren't as uber as you though =p. The good debuffs take hella skill to cast..and are very easy to prevent.

    -Fed (aka Yense)
    If I am so lucky to debuff the doc first, and the doc no longer is able to debuff me with 1500, he can just go a step down, and cast a debuff of 1000. I am out then, more or less dead. Problem also with docs, is that they got insane amount of hps, as they should... but if my alpha fails to instakill you, I am dead.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention the biggest power the docs has: Healing, which is totally UBER under the current 50% dmg rules, dmg and healing MUST be under the same rules, PvP favours the healing profs alot now.

    But I can as a lvl 169 NT manage to kill a lvl 116 doc yes, and thank god for that =), but without my flash, that would be VERY difficult.
    Last edited by Garzu; Mar 17th, 2002 at 22:51:15.
    NT phone HOME!!

  19. #59
    I think Trader buffs AND debuffs should NOT work against nano skills. MPs got nano debuffs like Dominate MC, it works against ONE skill, but traders work againt ALL nano skills + ALL weapon skills.... and it last for just as long time. Not only that, I was just talking about 1 trader debuff now, but they can stack... oh yeah, they can stack you back to the stoneage. Debuffin you with 415 points in ALL nano skills and ALL weapon skills... thats 3 times more than an MP can do against ONE skill....

    But traders debuffs isnt uber, oh no, thats only fair.

    Traders only got ALL the most and best stuff in pvp:

    1. Traders have the best damage weapons in the game, shotguns, with their draining of your skills their AMS increases vs your DMS, and your AMS decreases vs their DMS, making it more likely htey will crit against you, and more likely you will miss.

    2. Traders got the BEST debuffs in the game.

    3. Traders got AE roots, which is damn nice in pvp.

    4. Traders got the 2nd best healing in the game, only beaten by docs. With 50% dmg vs 100% heals....

    Personally I htink those 4 is the most important and best stuff any profession can have in pvp, and trader got it ALL.

    Traders are in for a HUGE nerf, I would start coming up with some suggestions on how to nerf traders if I were a trader myself.
    NT phone HOME!!

  20. #60
    heh, thanks for the support Maky , i completly agree with you,..

    the best quote i've seen so far was from Patk9 and holds sooooo true: "The richest profesion in the game should not also be the most powerful"


    and i never thought i'd be doin this, but i agree with Needlz also,
    -ransack/deprive should be non stackable
    -weapon debuffs/nano skill debuffs should be different nanos, and have a much longer casting time for each.
    Last edited by Ouzzelle; Mar 17th, 2002 at 22:50:48.
    Ouzzelle: It's an O damnit! not a Q!... and it's pronounced Weasel to you omnis.....

    Clanners call me Ozzy

    Duffer1: SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!
    Riddance Jr.: Is it dead?

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