overequipping - DO NOT TOUCH IT !!!

[Soltrix]

To whom it may concern,

I am aware of the changes Funcom wants to make in the 14.2 patch and I am most surprised that they are putting a ban on over-equipping. First of all without over-equipping a trader will be nothing more then a guy that sells some useless nano's that you will never need. Second asking for buffs has always been a great way to find friends in the game but with no more over-equipping what is the use of asking for a buff??
Then, the in game economy. Without over-equipping why buy stuff from other people if you can get it in missions that you can actually do?? Paying a lot of money for a high QL weapon will be useless because you will not be able to use it to its fullest potential (in other words you are wasting your money). Missions will soon become a kind of shopping in which you pick a low level mission (we won't be able to do higher level missions because the chance of us getting killed with our low QL weapons when we get attacked by two mobs at the same level with similar weapons will be to great) and search for a nice weapon you can wear for that will be all that you can use. So most of the sales on weapons and buffs will collapse, then the few things that should still be sold over the shopping channel will not be bought because everyone is doing missions to get good weapons and will find most of the items they need.
Many professions will be useless. In the buffing field all profession will be useless as you have to renew your buff every 30 minutes. Many professions that are build around using higher level weapons, including enforcers and traders, will get a huge disadvantage. MA’s who do not need any weapons and can buff the MA skill themselves will gain a huge advantage over the rest of the players. They will become kings in PvP. All the other professions though will become too predictable in any PvP fight. Not a single team will want any profession that has always been superior by getting higher Ql weapons. MP, Eng, Enf, anyone that uses some sort of a skill required object to fight will be useless.
In conclusion I agree that over-equipping makes most of the PVP battle’s unfair and that people that know another people will have an advantage but they also have an advantage in the knowledge on how to use your IP. Are you going to give people that have another character less IP because they know how to use it?? There will always be things in this world, which are unfair and fair and there will also always be experts in area’s and beginners, but instead of taking away from the experts why not give the beginners?? Start some sort of a tutorial on what to do and how to do things in Rubi-Ka.

DirX a.k.a. SavageDirX

[Anarchin]

You can still OE, but if it's beyond 20%, the effect will be reduced. In other words, OE will continue to be a (required) part of the game => buffs will still be sold and bought, and so forth.

Keep in mind also, that QL125+ stuff can not be bought in shops (with a few exceptions).

[XtroXtreme]

GO FUNCOM; GO, GO, GO!

I´m realy looking farward to this patch, as long as can get some answers of what will happen with our pets if we get ransaced/depraved skill nanos on us? If this nanos makes pets go gagagaga pet classes will go extinct in no time. But I hope that you will go for skill lvl without deprave/ransac when desciding when pets stop listen to us.

If I remeber corect pet will just end fight. Is that curent MOB it is fighting or all MOBs involved in fight? Can we even terminate pet if we are in dire need of a pet to get up a lesser pet?

[Soltrix]

May i say in that on the average for a lvl 20 character to succesfully be able to kill two mobs of equal lvl, think of missions, you need atlest a QL 40 weapon. We need to kill equal lvl mobs to lvl at any desent rate after lvl 30 so even 20% overequipping would be not enough.

[Oberan]

as long as the +132 is not 20% of the skill you should be fine

still allow you to overequip just by not as much.

why dont people understand that!!!

[______________Nietya]

Geez, I'm level 57 and with the 20% rule in place, could use about a QL 110 gun without breaking the rules, since with implants that I have all stat reqs for and self-buffs on, I can use a QL 96 gun right now as it is...

No, this patch won't make overequipping impossible, just less ludicrous.

[__________Naturegurl]

Before we all get into a rant ... maybe you should re-read the math outlined in the 14.2 notes ...

20% is the allowed range before you pay any penalty...

The only lvl chars that now OE more than this are lower levels...

With a 60 Skill Level (around lvl 15-20) you can equip a weapon req 72 skill.

With a 100 Skill level (around lvl 25-30) you can equip a weapon requiring a 120 skill level.

With 200 Skill level (around lvl 60-70) you can equip a weapon with 240 skill level.

This is a rough estimate based on aver 3-4 pts per lvl. This does not include skill boosted with implants. At L60 if your skill was boosted by implants by 20 pts, you could now use equipment req 288 !

288 (allowed) - 220 (existing) = 68 skill OE'd

Since I dont know any attribute buffs that buff 68, this means that your armor once you pass about L70 can be OE'd to the max that it can now ... so wtf is the problem?

By the same token, you can OE your weapon by 68 pts at lvl 60-70, maybe even more depending on the implants you choose... again wtf is the problem...??

What this patch is gonna stop, and thank you FC finally, is people lvl 60 squeezing into specially stepped implants, getting wrangles, buffs, and squeezing into a weapon that has 3 times the skill requirement to what they normally run at..

If you want to step the implants to get into a weapon, thats fine... but now you'll have to leave them in if you want to be effective with that weapon. And honestly.. isn't that the way it should be?!

Mirandia
L84 MA

[Soltrix]

Two things

1) you r a MA what do you know about OE??
2) for an Enf to have a GOOD weapon they would have to buff for 100+ at about lvl 25 - does not match your outline he????

[______Mürten La Suée]

Hi DirX, I just read the first few lines of your post and wanted to make a reply (so I'm not discussing whatever you wrote after).
It's just about the 'making friends' and 'usefulness of Traders' part. The change with 14.2 will make necessary to re-buff every time you want your overequipped item to work to its full. Consequences : Traders will be A LOT MORE demanded, you'll still make friends asking for buffs but you'll be forced to stick with them or even meet other people to get re-buffed frequently, thus enhancing team playing and social interactions.
Seems to me that it's quite the opposite of what you complained about.

[Soltrix]

Mürten La Suée,

thank you for reading and i must that i can not agree with your statement if you need to get wrangle's, basically the only usefull buff in th OEing field the traders have, and their skills will go down that mush every time you will be the only one fighe\ting, considering you need a trader with you 24/7. Also you would have to have one trader for every OEer that will come with you on missions and huts... and i doubt that will happen.

[Gantilious]

Yes Funcom take out the over equipping and force those individuals that
over equip to play the game.

haha.. PVP will now become a bit more even.

And wrangles were suppose to be a boost to criticals and hits. So they are still needed.

[_______________angst]

I actively play three classes an Adventurer, a Martial Artist, and a Doctor. The only OE that I have is from my own buffs and implants. I do not have a terriblly difficult time taking down two creature that are equal level with me.

I feel that Funcom originally developed the wrangle for an entirely different function than people now use it for. It was something they did and probably could not forsee.

For those that rely on OE'ing to do anything I say this, learn to play the game better. To rely on something like heavy OE'ing is ridiculous at the least.

I, for one, learn to adapt to situations. I hate to say it but, "If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen."

[_____________Asmodan]

And wrangles were suppose to be a boost to criticals and hits. So they are still needed.

Given that no one EVER misses that negates half of it. Your attack rating barely effects critical hits, and at higher level even 132 points of buff doesn't do much. At my traders current level I can (and do) keep my shotgun buffed by 230 during combat. I see MAYBE a 2 or 3% increase in critical hits, but even it's iffy.

Ok... how about boosting damage? Damage increases by a full integer every (roughly) 400 points of skill. So the highest level buff for a trader, requiring huge amounts of set up time with divests and plunders for most, will net you just over 25% more damage per hit. For a whopping three minutes..... The fact that to wrangle effectively you almost always have to climb the ransack/deprive ladder and the duration on those nanos is the same as a wrangle is bad. Example (taken exactly from my current trader character):

My trader casts Ransack Skills (Major)
My trader casts Deprive Skills (Advanced)
My trader casts Ransack Skills (Advanced)
My trader casts Divest Skills (Weak)
My trader casts Plunder Skills (Weak)
My trader casts Divest Skills (Minor)

Total nano cost: 980 (112 + 140 + 145 + 178 + 183 + 222)

Total time to cast: 59.5s (9.76 + 9.8 + 9.82 + 9.84 + 9.88 + 10.4)

At the end of this chain I can cast: Skill Wrangler (Advanced)

For a +74 point bonus to one character

OR

Team Skill Wrangler (Major)

For a +71 point bonus to my team

Each of these takes around two seconds to cast, pushing the total casting time over 60 seconds. Also, each cost around 200 nano, putting the total cost around 1,100 nano.

What do I get for a minute of casting and 80% of my nano pool?

An 18.5% increase to a single character damage for 3 minutes.

- or -

A 17.75% increase to my teams damage for 3 minutes.

What I definately give up:

Approximately 1,100 nano (assuming no resists or fumbles)
Approximately 60 seconds (assuming the same)
Either 90 or 157 points of my skill (depending on if I team or single)

What I in theory give up:

Roughly 8,400 points of damage (the average damage I would do over 60 seconds)
Roughly 3,600 points of damage (the amount I lose by having -157 shotgun skill for 3 minutes)

Additional Handicap:

Since the Deprive/Ransack line has a 3 minute duration, the same as the Wrangle line, another problem creeps up. Since I must Deprive/Ransack to do an effective Wrangle the remaining duration on my Plunder and Divest will be under three minutes when I cast the Wrangle. The Wrangle will lower my skill to the point that I cannot refresh my Divest and Plunder, so I therefore must let them time out due to the fact that I can't run a lower level version to refresh them (I will deprive the mob, but not gain the skill, already have a better nano running). So, assuming I cast the wrangle IMMEDIATELY after Depriving/Ransacking there is still about a 20 second space where my Deprives wear off but I still have the wrangle penalty.

What that handicap means:

If I want to wrangle the team again, I must climb back up the entire 'ladder' of deprives (another 980 nano/60 seconds). Also, for 20-30 seconds towards the end of the wrangle I will be doing FAR less damage than even the -600 per 30 seconds I lose from wrangling while I am still buffed from the Deprives.

Let's compare to similar 'emergency damage buff' nanos!:

Sway of Bamboo Over a minute duration, +63 damage (stacks with other MA buffs), 1 second casting time, 228 nano cost. Drawback - nano skill locked for 20 seconds

Anima of Fathomless Rage 105 point damage pet buff, short duration, 96 point nano cost, stacks with chant buffs, no drawbacks.

Brave Challenger to Colossus Over a minute duration, 813 nano cost, 1.5 seconds to cast (albeit 20s recharge, but it locks nano skills so who cares), big damage bonus, big skill bonus, big offense modifier bonus, stacks with other damage buffs. Drawback - nano skills locked for 2 minutes.

In conclusion:

Pfffft... emergency damage/crit/hit buff my arse.

[Gantilious]

Wow good info..

But you are still wrong. You as a trader are not suppose to be the damage dealer. Hmmmm yes you drop 8000 points of damage that you would do in 60 secs.

Ok. think on this. I do less damage 8000 or so. I increase everyone elses by 17.5%. For about 3 mins. If you are a team player. Then that is not a big deal. If you wanted to be the big guy doing the damage you got the wrong class.

Now think if you up the damage of everyone in the group and decrease yours then don't you think they will compensate for the damage you are not doing.

Loose 8k in damage from me gain 10k or more damage done by the rest of the team. 2k more damage done by everyone else or do I keep with my 8.

Trader support class. If you wanted to be the fighter in the group grab another class.

Also don't compare the pet buffs with the self increase buffs that have draw backs.

All I can say is know you class and your role in the game and you would not have popped of and try to shoot down what I said.

Wrangles were not made to beef up people to equip weapons they were made to help the team out in battle. Point blank. You may not agree with it but it is the truth. Be a support character and stop trying to be a soldier.

Also I see what you mean by running all those things so you can cast a wrangle. Did you ever think if you waited till you can cast it on your own you would not have to do all those nanos in chain so you can cast it.

Just my thoughts on it. I see your point but you are not looking at your class as a support class when that is what you are.

Tabrose

[Soltrix]

tahnk you Osmodan to prove the point i have been trying to bring over scientifically.

[_____________Asmodan]

Tabrose, go see this thread since I don't feel like doing the math again.

Besides actually LOSING net damage, the trader also loses most of his ablility to heal, drain health, buff AC, debuff AC, charm, and calm.

I don't mind playing a support class, but I'd really like my support to not end up making the team do worse.

And why not compare the pet damage buffs? They are 'emergency damage buffs' just like everyone keeps saying wrangles are supposed to be. Except they FRIGGIN WORK RIGHT.

I hardly call providing a page and a half of mathematical proof 'popping off'.

You want me to not chain deprives and ransacks? Great, so now I don't buff my own skills by 220 AND the most I can wrangle for is about 46 (about a 10% increase instead of 17%). Care to run those numbers and see how much more gimped using wrangles for support looks?

I'm looking at my class very carefully, since I play it. I know how it works... you apparently don't, and since you can't seem to accept actual feedback then I suggest you refrain from commenting on it til you get yourself a clue.

[Gantilious]

True this will have to be a difference of opinion on this. I will check the thread you spoke of out.

I am doing some looking into what you said.

Get back with you in about 4 hours I am at work can't do to much looking around.

[__________PostMortem]

I play an MP. I use lvl 90 implants at lvl 70 and I self buff with expertise and masteries to cast my pets. I would not consider that OE by any srtetch of the imagination. However, when I get ransacked in a mission or PvP it will make my pets useless after the fight for quite a long time.

I dont see why I should be punished for casting pets I casted with self buffs. If these are the rules thats fine, I will figure out a way arond it. But FC should atleast make debuffs fall off when the caster dies. There is no game improvement from being snared for 30 minutes (if you dont break it with the bug) or being ransaked forever after the mob/person is dead.

They are basicaly making pet classes extinct with this patch as we are helpless w/o our pet. It would be like a melee not being able to swing or a gun user not being able to shoot after every time he is ransacked, even if his gun was put on by his own buffs.

This is very lame imho.

[Johnfredone]

I know it would be great to tell the devs "Oh god no dont do it" But if I know development I'll bet 14.2 is already on internal servers in its initial stages while 14.0 is on its final phase before internal tests. Sorry to say but I bet its to late to stop 14.2 from happening now. Should have told them to stop theOE fix like 2 months ago

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by NovemberSix
Should have told them to stop theOE fix like 2 months ago

We did. and offered much better solutions. We were ignored.