Hey Funcom make clan and omni cities open for PvP

[___________Jarekloss]

With the 50% gas idea, we at least have a choice when the opposing faction Grids in and decides to stroll through our streets.

I can see where Nataar is coming from (I think). Having 25% gas in the cities and towns and 0% anywhere outside the view of the city walls would be more "realistic." The whole suppression gas concept is a thin cover for play mechanics to keep people who don't wish to be able to be attacked at all times content.

I seriously don't like the idea of lvl170 marauders crashing the lowbie training grounds and having a wholesale slaughter. A very large majority of players would quit and you'd have maybe a couple hundred hard-core PvPers per server left. Maybe someone could do an RPG Quake 3 mod or something for them, instead.

So 50% allows someone to decide if they want to tangle with the Omni (for instance :P) who just Gridded in and wants to raise a little hell in Tir.

Personally, I have seen this happen, and my lowbie self (lvl 23 at the time) was raring to take a shot at those guys! A handful of high-level Omni in Tir with every self-respecting Clansman dummying on them or dying in the attempt - it would be something to see or take part in, wouldn't it? Those that didn't want to take part simply don't have to. Watch, run and hide, take pictures, whatever.

So although 50% gas isn't perfect, it goes a step towards making a bunch of us happier. Better than 75% in town, isn't it?

As for the Neutrals, hopefully they read what they were in for when they decided to sit the fence in this conflict. They chose a hard route, knowing it was a hard route. If you want to remain neutral, then it's self-defence only. You open fire first and you just chose sides, my friend. Here's your merit board, have a nice day.

Another (slightly related) idea would be to implement encryption on the Grid. You can't use the terminals held by your opposing faction, coming or going. Maybe give us fixers some love and make us able to hack that encryption aside with extremely high levels of Comp Lit. Ok, now I'm getting greedy, aren't I?

But it would cut down on the strange little "field trips" we can currently have in the core of enemy cities.

[_______________Saint]

If I remember correctly, there are several games where it is unrestricted killing opportunities. And they will even give an edge to the seasoned player. I play Perfect Dark alot. A game wich in multiplayer mode is all pvp. With titles and all. Why dont you check it out? Or CS, or Quake, or UT. Please dont tell me you never heard of those games? When you bought/downloaded the game it said RPG.

Bye bye loosers.

[Nataar]

In response too:-

Originally posted by Azzazzimon

Seems like you understand the point why it's not possible to change to 25% zones everywhere, you agreed on most of my points.

This is the exact problem, 99% of the people don't want to be attacked all the time, you even understand this yourself and still you think it's right if you could attack them?

When I do my usual rants I'm posting about stuff I would like to see changed and what would improve the game for me personally and those sympathetic to my view point. It rarely is for a change that is politically correct and meant to find favour with the majority of the player base

In answer to your question though, I do want the capability to walk up to someone not wanting PvP and attack an vice versa for someone to be able to exactly the same to me. To always be on the look out for a clan and wonder weather his looking for a fight or just scurrying about his own business not looking for trouble adds an air of tension and uncertainty to the game. It would effect how you ventured outside of cities, to me that kind of atmosphere would be just great I would love it to bits.

Originally posted by Jarekloss
With the 50% gas idea, we at least have a choice when the opposing faction Grids in and decides to stroll through our streets.

Yep, that was Azz's point. To me personally I would want to be able to force PvP and have such large scale events as major guilds forcibly turning a city into a conflict zone where everyone in the city either has to get the hell out of there fast or fight for it. Its no fun when people can just walk right by you, even spy on you without risk, passing information on to those players that do want to PvP with you. I wouldn't even bother with such events if that was possible.

I can see where Nataar is coming from (I think). Having 25% gas in the cities and towns and 0% anywhere outside the view of the city walls would be more "realistic." The whole suppression gas concept is a thin cover for play mechanics to keep people who don't wish to be able to be attacked at all times content.

heh finally someone understands where I'm coming from, thx Jarekloss

I seriously don't like the idea of lvl170 marauders crashing the lowbie training grounds and having a wholesale slaughter

Me either, not overly found of the level limits on PvP and I think there should be zones where they should not apply, but, as far as city lowbie training grounds go they should be in effect there.

A very large majority of players would quit and you'd have maybe a couple hundred hard-core PvPers per server left.

Maybe... we would lose some, but those who had avoided PvP until it was forced upon them may actually find they like it. We would also get some more, mainly those that left when they found out that AO wasn't about PvP at all

Maybe someone could do an RPG Quake 3 mod or something for them, instead.

Would be very vey cool.

So 50% allows someone to decide if they want to tangle with the Omni (for instance :P) who just Gridded in and wants to raise a little hell in Tir.

Personally, I have seen this happen, and my lowbie self (lvl 23 at the time) was raring to take a shot at those guys! A handful of high-level Omni in Tir with every self-respecting Clansman dummying on them or dying in the attempt - it would be something to see or take part in, wouldn't it? Those that didn't want to take part simply don't have to. Watch, run and hide, take pictures, whatever.

Refer you to my above point on that, but I understand your view point, it just conflicts with what I would like to see happen PvP wise to this game.

So although 50% gas isn't perfect, it goes a step towards making a bunch of us happier. Better than 75% in town, isn't it?

Maybe not sure. I really don't like the neutral style of PvP code and real don't want to see it added to zones, much better just to turn the 75% zones to 25%.

As for the Neutrals, hopefully they read what they were in for when they decided to sit the fence in this conflict. They chose a hard route, knowing it was a hard route. If you want to remain neutral, then it's self-defence only. You open fire first and you just chose sides, my friend. Here's your merit board, have a nice day.

I think newts should be given first strike options, I'm sure they all have a little black note book of people who ganked them and are just patiently waiting for a chance to do some payback, I say let em

Another (slightly related) idea would be to implement encryption on the Grid. You can't use the terminals held by your opposing faction, coming or going. Maybe give us fixers some love and make us able to hack that encryption aside with extremely high levels of Comp Lit. Ok, now I'm getting greedy, aren't I?

Not a bad idea, whompas and city gates should also have a huge number of high level guards (on long spawn timers, not the stupidly quick spawns guards have atm) so you really need nothing short of a small army to even break in. With additional guards following patrol routes through cities.

Ok my last point I have to add to his rather long post is probably another hugely unpopular one, think I probably mentioned it in other posts as well, but I like the idea.

Remove exp 100% from missions (where you need a key from a mission term to get in) from both the reward and the mobs, fix the outdoor hunting zones so everyone up to level 200 can make fast exp in the right zones. Would so love to see that happen, of course its so not going to ever happen.

Regards

--Nat

[_____________Paldorr]

Ain't gonna happen so why troll? Oh... I see

[Nataar]

Originally posted by Paldorr
Ain't gonna happen so why troll? Oh... I see

Wouldn't say I was trolling Paldorr, just expressing a view point I'm 99% certain will never effect the game and hoping maybe someone shares my perspective.

Regards

--Nat

[___________Jarekloss]

Well, it would certainly let the game live up to it's name if Nataar had his way.

When I was still an AO toddler, I wanted to be able to wander the areas close to home in relative safety from PvP. Have fun exploring without having to be constantly scanning the horizon. Probably this is still the majority's mindset. Someone should do a poll with the options mentioned here, just to find out some rough numbers.

I still haven't been in PvP combat, but the fact I was targetting and trying to fire on Omni in Tir tells me something. Maybe once I have been ganked a few times, my views will change, who knows? I just know something felt wrong when I coudn't open fire on them in my home City...

I've passed clear through 25% zones, and just being there and seeing my grace period elapse is a thrill unto itself.

One glaring hole in the facade are human NPCs that are considered "wildlife." Both enemy and ally. I was seeing what a friendly NPC had to say in Tir County, but I didn't hit <enter> before I started typing. I typed an "M" and dumped a burst at her/it. The ally NPC scorched me right there. If that was a player, it would have been impossible for me to open fire or her to return it.

I see human Omni NPCs in Tir County as well and we can fight. So these strange people are immune to the gas and so am I when I fight them. WTF? I know it's game mechanics, but the mask is sliding off badly and I can see the gears. Better to make a blanket rule for all humans, player and NPC alike, and stick to it.

Here's an idea Nataar might find interesting:
75% gas in newbie training training and backyards. Maybe also inside some official buildings. 25% within the city streets, and 0% outside would be more realistic. If you attack a fellow faction member within sight of your guardsmen outside, they warn and then shoot, just like they would for invading enemies in town.

The question is, how many would get upset and leave? Too bad the user base isn't large enough to devote a server for this kind of "anarchy." Honestly, I don't know if I logged some hours in that atmosphere if I'd want to stay or not... I'm just throwing out ideas here, and I'm sure there are some problems in them. Just ideas.

It might actually make people a bit more civil around town if you know that the person you are lipping off (and their cronies) could smack you around when you stpped outside for a quick hunting trip...

The only real drawback to this are the real griefers would have a field day with making life hell for people of their own factions. I have seen plenty of that in Tribes2 and some other online games, and I get sick of those sociopaths real fast.

[Cthonian]

Originally posted by Jarekloss

It might actually make people a bit more civil around town if you know that the person you are lipping off (and their cronies) could smack you around when you stpped outside for a quick hunting trip...

Heh... even if i dont like PvP in MMORPG in general
( since it's mostly about who have wasted more time
and not about skill )
i find this argument very good !

Anyway, i think if there would be 2 servers with different rules,
one with more PvP then now, and one with less,
all the ppl. who can not stay civil now would move on PvP server
to live there according to thier instincts,
instead of harassing players
( i was never killed in PvP so far ( lvl 67 ),
but it would not be as bad as some "conversations" i was involved into )

/Quantar , MP 67 Omni RK 1

P.S. My advice for everyone:
if someone harassed you really bad,
especially in tell ---> petition
I have quite good experiences with ARKs about this,
and they have logs !
But take screenshots anyway.
It's not about revanche: being warned these troublemakers
will not ruin the game for other players

[Nataar]

In responce too:-

Originally posted by Jarekloss
Well, it would certainly let the game live up to it's name if Nataar had his way.

And it would be a lot of fun too, unless your a die hard carebear but we won't mention them

When I was still an AO toddler, I wanted to be able to wander the areas close to home in relative safety from PvP. Have fun exploring without having to be constantly scanning the horizon. Probably this is still the majority's mindset. Someone should do a poll with the options mentioned here, just to find out some rough numbers.

Would be interesting to see the results to that, as for keeping a watch out for PKers, that would be fun.

I still haven't been in PvP combat, but the fact I was targeting and trying to fire on Omni in Tir tells me something. Maybe once I have been ganked a few times, my views will change, who knows? I just know something felt wrong when I couldn’t open fire on them in my home City...

Depends who you fight, if its a lvl 15 super twink, then your not want anything to do with it, which is very understandable (adding level requirements to the QL of weapons would be one way to fix it, yep I know another very unpopular idea of mine ). Its at level 100+ when you just about got your best weapons that PvP becomes a little fairer and hence more fun to be involved in.

I've passed clear through 25% zones, and just being there and seeing my grace period elapse is a thrill unto itself.

Same (until I found out hardly anyone actually goes into 25% ), just imagine what it would be like if every zone outside of he city was 25%.

One glaring hole in the facade are human NPCs that are considered "wildlife." Both enemy and ally. I was seeing what a friendly NPC had to say in Tir County, but I didn't hit <enter> before I started typing. I typed an "M" and dumped a burst at her/it. The ally NPC scorched me right there. If that was a player, it would have been impossible for me to open fire or her to return it

I see human Omni NPCs in Tir County as well and we can fight. So these strange people are immune to the gas and so am I when I fight them. WTF? I know it's game mechanics, but the mask is sliding off badly and I can see the gears. Better to make a blanket rule for all humans, player and NPC alike, and stick to it.

Yep, double standards between players and NPC's of the same side, needs to be fixed

Here's an idea Nataar might find interesting:
75% gas in newbie training training and backyards. Maybe also inside some official buildings. 25% within the city streets, and 0% outside would be more realistic. If you attack a fellow faction member within sight of your guardsmen outside, they warn and then shoot, just like they would for invading enemies in town.

Nice idea, I'm neither for or against the world being turned mainly to 0%, but I am very set against it being 75%+.

The question is, how many would get upset and leave?

Only the carebears Jarekloss, but as I said, its best not to mention that strange lot. We would get an influx of players who like PvP as well to replace them.

Too bad the user base isn't large enough to devote a server for this kind of "anarchy." Honestly, I don't know if I logged some hours in that atmosphere if I'd want to stay or not... I'm just throwing out ideas here, and I'm sure there are some problems in them. Just ideas.

It might actually make people a bit more civil around town if you know that the person you are lipping off (and their cronies) could smack you around when you stopped outside for a quick hunting trip...

It would, 0% cities would really deal with the beggar problem lol. They would soon stop asking if you killed em on the spot for asking (1 advantage for 0% in cities).

The only real drawback to this are the real griefers would have a field day with making life hell for people of their own factions. I have seen plenty of that in Tribes2 and some other online games, and I get sick of those sociopaths real fast.

Yes, there always a problem. 1 way to deal with that is to have a faction system introduced that goes down when you kill enough of your own side (outside of the arena), so your own sides guards shoot you on sight and refuse to trade with you. You could have an outlaw community then, would add some depth to the game. Maybe even an "Outlaw" title that goes on your name as well

Another thing I think that may make PvP more fun is to remover players from tab, so you have to manually find and target them, adds something to a surprise attack in favour of the attacker. An anonymous feature would be nice as well so only your allegiance was shown, not your level, guild or prof.

Regards

--Nat

[Cthonian]

Originally posted by Nataar

It would, 0% cities would really deal with the beggar problem lol. They would soon stop asking if you killed em on the spot for asking (1 advantage for 0% in cities).

LOL
( not that i vote for 0%, but i must admit it would have
many advantages too )

[infrared]

i agree with the 50% area idea

[___________Jarekloss]

I like the anti-merit/outlaw idea (as long as it was swift to take effect and severe in it's repercussions), and I actually was thinking about giving less or no level/power rating indication today at work! People would be far more hesitant to attack someone if they aren't sure how they stack up against you. Just like real life...

[____________Xeraseus]

Originally posted by darkphoenix
I think if an Omni comes through the whompa to Tir any clan citizen should be able to mop the floor with him, not just the guards. The same should be if a clanner went to an Omni city(except those skinny Oni punks would get a whooping like none other). What do you guys think?

Yeah that's a great idea! then all those newbies that don't have a clue can sit there at fair trade and die over and over while they're trying to get some advice about what a nano is. Hordes of lvl5 omni alts coming thru the whompa and no one that knows what the hell they're doing could help. I hope this was like a joke post, as I don't sense the humor. Otherwise you're, well.....retarted.


Xeraseus

[Nataar]

Hmm, well were all entitled to our opinions, here is mine

Originally posted by Xiauzon

Yeah that's a great idea!

Ok you actually made a very good start their Xiauzon, pity the rest of your post was not along those lines. I agree with you on this point, it was a great idea and a good post

then all those newbies that don't have a clue can sit there at fair trade and die over and over while they're trying to get some advice about what a nano is. Hordes of lvl5 omni alts coming thru the whompa and no one that knows what the hell they're doing could help.

If you had read the other posts instead of jumping right in, you would have seen a few of us stated that if this ever happened we would like to see the city well guarded, here is part of one of my earlier posts on this thread

Originally posted by Nataar

whompas and city gates should also have a huge number of high level guards (on long spawn timers, not the stupidly quick spawns guards have atm) so you really need nothing short of a small army to even break in. With additional guards following patrol routes through cities.

If something like that was done then lvl 5's would get instant killed by the guards when they try to enter the city

I hope this was like a joke post, as I don't sense the humor. Otherwise you're, well.....retarted.

Manners Xeraseus, that was actually boarding on being very unpleasant there .

Warm regards

--Nat

[Kinkstaah]

I like the 50% idea.


I would also like a /duel command where you can target X and type /duel (obviously) then you get the 15 second timer come down, all external buffs disappear and you cant be attacked by anyone outside the duellers OR zone. (in any supression zone)

But 50% in cities (and most areas actually) would be good.

[Tsuneko]

I really like the idea of 50% areas, this also should coincode with the envisioned idea od 'owning' land too.
For instance, Clans come to somewhere like an outpost some where that is owned by Omni, and, as the guards die, and Omni players cannot defend ther land, the land will become occupoed by clan (not guards necessarily), but the outpost would return to Omni if Clanners cannot keep conrtol of it by either guards or players killing them, or if they leave the outpost.
I had thought there should be a 50% zone or something for sometime, but wasn't able to thnk what would make it that;
Great idea!
In times of major war between the two (Omni-Tek and the Rebel Clans) sities like Omn-1 would drop down to 50% sometimes, but be unpredictable, it should also be rather hard to overtake a city (not just a group of 30 150+ clanners, but more like 400 clanners of all levels)
Trade is literally Headquarters (just figurative) for Omni as it is a place of commerce, what Omni is about, and for Clan, Athens is the Clan's place of interest.
Game Deisgners, please investigate this as a possibilty for the future.

[Nataar]

Few points

Originally posted by MiKEBoND
I like the 50% idea.

No no no is a bad idea much better to have 25%, heh think I probably been saying that a little to much.

I would also like a /duel command where you can target X and type /duel (obviously) then you get the 15 second timer come down,

Would be a nice addition, it really is a pain having other people ruining duels

all external buffs disappear

Not sure on that one, some classes need buffs more than others, but I see your perspective anyone with an alpha strike weapon without a crit buff being removed would just own the duel. On the other hand as a meta having all my buffs removed before a duel would just cripple me. Maybe have it as a 2 stage process, stage one, removes buffs and prevents others from buffing you, you can then self buff up and type say /duel again to start the fight.

and you cant be attacked by anyone outside the duellers OR zone. (in any supression zone)

Could be exploited to by pass PvP, lets say 6 clanners decide to go hunt in mort, they select a partner and type duel, then go of to hunt and enjoy total PvP protection, or two people decide to "duel" each other to pass through a PvP zone in safety.

But 50% in cities (and most areas actually) would be good.

I'm sure that was a typo you meant 25% of course, right?

and ...

Originally posted by Tsuneko
I really like the idea of 50% areas, this also should coincode with the envisioned idea od 'owning' land too.

lol another typo, you meant 25% of course

For instance, Clans come to somewhere like an outpost some where that is owned by Omni, and, as the guards die, and Omni players cannot defend ther land, the land will become occupoed by clan (not guards necessarily)

omg that would suck, not being able to defend your own OP's lol if anything could screw up the capture territory idea that would be it.

In times of major war between the two (Omni-Tek and the Rebel Clans) sities like Omn-1 would drop down to 50% sometimes

eek, no thankyou, I would like to be able to defend my home city if clan attacked, to be reduced to the point of having to train guards onto the clan to defend ones own city would be terrible.

it should also be rather hard to overtake a city

On that point I do agree with you.

Regards

--Nat

[__________NicholaSix]

50% gas is interesting, I know you are working up toward what we all want, fighting in cities, but i think 25% gas would just be better. There are a few reasons for this; too much power to the defenders to pull their targets. If, say, one day omni tried to attack tir in force, 10 guys thru the whompa or grid at once (lol yes that is "in force" but this is AO here) it would be very easy for the defenders to just take down 1 target at a time unless they were teamed.

25% is more free-form, more options for all, but I still think maybe we should throw the newts a bone here, give them immunity from PKs, and make it so they can't initiate either. If they want to PVP they can pick a side.

[____________Xeraseus]

Originally posted by Nataar


Manners Xeraseus, that was actually boarding on being very unpleasant there .

Ok, you got me, I apologize and admit that I didn't read all the other posts. I don't know what got into me there :P

Xeraseus

-once again, I apologize. Been reading the boards too much today........starting to get in auto-flame mode.

[____________Xeraseus]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon
I only want this change if the omni that come to Tir can't attack until he is attacked, we need 50% zones, zones that are "owned" by one side and only that side can start an attack.

Ok now for the constuctive post (I put a**hole xeraseus to bed). I do agree with this. I was in tir a few weeks ago with about a bazillion fellow clanners sitting around watching 5 omnis killing the guards at the west gate. Man, it would have been nice to be able to do something about that.


Xeraseuse (the good one)


p.s.- in response to the last post ultra made, I see the difficulties in the 50% theory. Instead of making it 25%, I'd like to see it be where if one of the "defending" side, the one in their home city starts an attack, they are open to attack from all on the opposing side. That way if you're minding your own business and have no interest you can still carry on with whatever you're doing without being attacked and the people attempting the raid arent at a huge disadvantage.

While this all seems cool, the Fair Trade area in Tir is one of the laggiest chunks of land in the game due to all the people congregated there all the time. Could you imagine 20 omnis coming thru and all of them fighting on top of the hugh amount of people there already?

[Tsuneko]

nataar, uyou misunderstoof what i said there, yes i meant 50%
and second, YES, you CAN defend your own bases, but this was a scenario (as if omni did not know about some invasion or whatever)
as for clan invasions, i have no idea what you mea there, please elaborate
eek, no thankyou, I would like to be able to defend my home city if clan attacked, to be reduced to the point of having to train guards onto the clan to defend ones own city would be terrible.

if clan came to your town and it was 50%, you would be able to attack clan (but not them first). how can you defend them if its 75% other than training guards oon them ? (usually training them can be very tricky if the clanners see you training them on them, theyll just go full def and stop attacking, and the guards that are/were attaking them, will now be on you)
(BTW, clan guards hit MUCH harder than Omni guards, at least what ive observed, those Blades are badass)
please reread my entire 1st post slowly