Over-equipping - here we go....

[____________Darkbob8]

opps ok i just read Zuh's huge post on the page before mine and he is right its a very good idea but i still think that level caps on weapons(not judged by their QL) could be good.

[Zyrc]

Everyone remember one little thing here.......THIS IS JUST A GAME.....


There is too much stupid crap going on in the world right now to make this big of a deal about a video game.

Personaly.. I play a game the way it was layed out to play. I don't cheat. I don't hack. I don't exploit. If Funcom beleives that overequiping is ruining their game. Then they have the right to fix it however they see fit. Be happy that you will be able to equip the weapon or armor at all. Thay could make it an across the board fix that won't allow you to equip anything 20% over your level. (Which is actually probably the better solution.)


I play this game and many others for fun. I don't take them too seriously, but I do try to immerse myself into the gameplay as much as I can.

Everyone chill out and enjoy yourselves.


/me Sits back and waits for the flames to come rolling in.

[_____________Kwangju]

What a big can of worms this could be, thank God FC is at least listening to it's customers.

Maybe my Agent is one of those characters you are targeting with this OE patch, she is level 70 using a ql168 rifle. Needless to say it takes a ton of money and game time to pull this off, and she is my third character. But I never exploited the treament labs or the tutoring devices, even though i new how to do them.
My Agent has no PvP title, and no interest in ruining some poor OT's day by killing him on his way back from a mission, but >> she sure as hell could do it. What makes me want to push the envelope with her? It's simple, even after equiping this awesome weapon, she still has a hell of a time trying to solo a 55% mission, a lot of the time she can't pull it off.

The mobs are insane in this game, their AC and hit points are crazy. My MA can never interupt a mob casting a nano, and the mobs are bugged in their favor, leaping through walls to assist others, hitting you with nukes before their spell is even finshed, shooting through walls, the list goes on.

If our characters do less damage, it's going to be hell.

But, in a perfect world this sounds like a good patch. But I see potential problems all over the place with the way you want to execute it. If FC is not blind, then they also see the same problems I see, or maybe not. So just in case, here are some problems I see:

1) My team gets attacked, we get adds,
a. A Trader debuffs my engineer, his pet refuses to respond after it kills it's last target.
b. My MP gets debuffed, heal pet and attack pet sit like dummies like the bot
c. My team gets pounded by that adds or new adds, both Engineer and MP die, or they run away.
d. Pets do not follow their masters when the team tries to move on, pets deactivate after a time since masters may be forced to leave area.

2) Twinked characters still have ql150 implants in their level 50 characters, do to the treatment and tutoring dvice exploits available even 2 weeks ago. They still have grossly high IP skills, so they still can use much better weapons/pets, so they still have unfair advantage in PvP.

3) Soldiers still suck, since they only have the +20 buff general expertise weapon skills buff. No soldier uses pistols or rifles, and these are the only ones they can use at even level 70. The requirements for the weapon masteries that soldiers really use ar not realisticaly available until a Soldier is around level 100, unless he sacrafices 180K+ IP while letting all his other skills lay dormant.

Why not make all weapon masteries in the soldier lines available to the Soldier at around level 50-60???
a. Traders can Deprive and Ransack to get very high skill boosts through out a mission or hunt.
b. The Agent has a +50 rifle buff, and sense agility buffs available at around level 40-50
c. MPs have a +50 nano mastery to all nano skills at around level 40-50
d. Enforcers have 2Hand blunt and Str+Stam buffs available early on also

The Soldier is supposed to be the king of armed combat, cannot get the masteries to weapons he uses until around level 100. These examples for other classes shown above, can attain their +50ish buffs without any sacrafices at all. And they can keep them refreshed without too much trouble at all.

I have a possible fix to this problem, all implants, weapons, nano program crystals and items have a quality level or "ql". Just make it so it is impossible to equip anything with a ql of more then +30 in ql above your level. This may take some research on FC's part, to ensure there are no nanos or items that slip through the cracks, or have inflated ql levels.

What do you think?

[camilaen]

Originally posted by Crymcyn


No grounds? I was responding to a comment made by Morgoth;
"The pet by the way will be yellow to the engineer at most. That is the BEST selfbuffed pet an engineer can get up on his own."

The only instance in which this is true would be an engineer, without any matcrea, t&s, or ability implants, using the available self buffs. If Morgoth knew anything about implants, then he would have never made his statement, because, and I'll repeat, it quite simply isn't true.

Hi

Your quoted post from Morgoth was longer, and it included something he himself had quoted in a way.. so it got kinda weird the whole thing..
But... Morgoth does know implants, he knows them quite well, and he's tested a selfbuffed bot

Respectfully,

DrCam

[____________Rockpitt]

Crymcyn, I think I must have missed something in Vicktors' post that caused you to rag on him (or her). Seems to me Vicktor is playing by rules so to speak: Armor within 20% reqs., self buffing and QL80 implants in a level 60 character (easily done without massive buffs). And yet you say this character isn't "meant to be running lvl 80-90 missions." I'm trying to understand how you came to that conclusion.

[____________Ejeckted]

forgive me repeating myself,
but since i'm probably one of the few who bothers to read every post
I have offered Funcom a better solution, with a specific formula,
that should make both side of this issue very happy.

Cz has assured me (and those supporting this idea)
that this formula will be delivered to Gaute and the Devs
for consideration.

however, it could always use a bump and words of support from you.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=15722

math solves everything

[Aristai]

Laughing my ass off, after reading through all these posts it finally dawned on me.
OK here's the plan, take all your IPs that you will soon get and put them ALL in to Martial arts. Forget casting, pet's, guns, nova flows and fancy swords ect ect Just Remake your self as an unarmed MA. Be sure to boost First aid and Treatment to the max. Cause with the debuffs the mobs cast you sure won't be casting heals. Forget nanomages (the unmake series will nail them every time). Pets? Pfft. Just make an MA. The patch will not effect you at all. ;P



In all honesty I don't think this patch will work. AO has too many unfixed bugs now, adding this will simply make a bad situation worse. I returned to AO after fleeing 12.6 and was delighted with the changes but annoyed that so many bugs still were unaddressed. I pray this new patch is rethought and reworked because I am having fun here and don't really want to find a new game right now. But I will, if it no longer is fun.

If you want my gaming $$s, don't bore me or ignore me.

[_____________Morgoth]

Originally posted by Crymcyn


My assumption was formed on a completely inaccurate statement made by this "treasure-house of AO knowledge."

"The pet by the way will be yellow to the engineer at most. That is the BEST selfbuffed pet an engineer can get up on his own."

Anyone who's ever played an engineer knows this to be false. With proper ip spending, proper implants and only the self buffs, the engineer can get an orange or often red pet. While Morgoth may very well be extremely knowledgable, his statement can only be construed as one of two things; 1) a lack of knowledge or 2) a complete discounting of knowledge to state an obvious falsehood to mislead others to his point of view. I feel I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, given the two choices.

I did not say any engineer, I clearly stated what lvl, implants and such. Infact I built a character after the wanted ideal, this was a long thread of messages going back and forth. I know of course that an engineer can get a better then yellow pet, I got an orange one today with my selfbuffs and ql 129 implants (nanomage ). But I really doub't that MOST engineers go around wearing ql 129 implants at lvl 69. More like ql 50 implants, and most don't play nanomage.

Lets say for funs sake that I am a lvl 69 engineer and got ql 50 implants on, and that I indeed had the creds to buy the best pet I could use. If I lose my pet, and there is a very high risk of course that I do, since I can only get so much outside buffs with the new rules I will have to selfbuff. Thats +20 and +2 more with int buffs.

K, max skills for a solitus engineer is at lvl 69 with ql 50 implants are 374, this with maxed int/psy ( not all normal players do this ).

With self buffs +22 you can then get up Semi-Sentient Gladiatorbot ql 86 /Yellow to light orange. ( Skills needed 402, you got 404 ). This is with maxed skills in mc and ts/50ql implants /max skills in int/psy. If you are lucky you can get buffs for infuses ( If you can aford them and got ncu's ). This will give you a max skill if you want to keep the bot at 484 or a flawed Guardbot ql 99 that will be dark orange/to red. If this pet dies/dies in a sonecrash/you get disconnected you need to go back from your mission or hunt or get your own Semi-Sentient gladiatorbot who are yellow/light orange.

I am pretty sure that most engineers need alot of time to get all this, but the veteran players can get past it with pillows/pistols, nelebs cloak, ql 129+ implants and such, but then...what about balance? what about the huge amount of creds for all this ? ( you can't earn alot with twinked characters anymore). Is this balance? MP's can buff better pets..infact 3, Crats can buff the same as an engineer/but has roots/attack spells/xp spells.

Anyway, this is what I think, I am sure the pro folks soon gonna flame me again concerned as they are about " balanced ".

Yours


Lifedrain
General of Security
Omni Shadow Ops

Among other players:

Lvl 69 engineer

So I have played and I didn't know I lied.

[____________Phelisha]

Morgoth, this is very true, if any class has it best that has pets its the MP, plus they get buffs to make money off of, then ofcourse there is the crat, they get TONS of good spells to keep then kicking even with a self buffed pet, but what do engineers get?
there bot, and maby plus 200 ac............

that is a load of bull, give the engineer something already, not just light green freakin pistol skill.
engineer cant even use ahlf of there buffs for weps, its reduclious.

the only reason so many have them is for the warbots and slayer droids!
i mean, come on, who dosent want a freakin tweaked out slayer droid at lvl 110

[Rebal]

This is ridiculous! The over-equipping patch will make everyone equal. That means Newbies are just as good as Veteran players. That means that even though you have been playing for 4 months you arent any better then someone playing a couple days! This is the dumbest thing funcom has done yet, and they will lose about half over there players if this patch goes live!

[_____________Vicktor]

Originally posted by Crymcyn


What is it going to take to make you people who keep saying things like this understand that at lvl 60 you aren't meant to be running lvl 80-90 missions?

OMG what?!?! a level 60 trader running 70-80% missions?!?! Good thing this patch will fix that! ROFLMFAO Yes and as soon as this patch goes live i will walk my little ass out to 2HO and start blasting anyone i can with my completely legal, within the 20% limit, lvl 130 vektor!

Anyone that thinks this patch is gonna stop things like this happening is DEAD wrong. FUNCOM, just wait and see.

I am completely for a patch that fixes, or at least limits, these "imbalances" but this suggested plan will not do it. The key to overequipping is implants and NCU. Weapons and armor are only the end result of long and costly process (AKA overequipping). A REAL solution would be to apply a direct skill % to implants and NCU. For instance:
Comp Lit skill / Req'd Comp Lit * NCU = Actual NCU
Skill level / Req'd Skill * Implant buff = Actual implant
The combinatiopn of these would limit the amout of overequipping considerably. Although admittedly it would still be possible, using smaller steps than what is requiered now, it would severely limit the amount of OE that could be done at low levels. The more bufffs people have to keep running to use something efficiently, the less NCU they have for OE'ing. This rule should apply to everything, Weapons, armor, NCU, Nano programs, Pet damage, Armor AC, EVERYTHING!


But until funcom sees this, everyone feel free to holler at me for that extra 19.5% skill in whatever weapon skill you need And you jsut think wrangles are expensive now! ROFLMFAO (again!)

[__________Mindswayer]

I can understand you wanting to stop level 75 Engineers being wrangled/mastery'd into QL200 slayer droids and level 100 Agents using Demons an MP can't get until 130, but the pet coma thing has to ignore debuffs. The pet is already summoned/created and afterall it's YOU getting debuffed not it.

The only problem I have with this patch is if debuffs are counted towards pets going inactive. Other than that it looks like a great patch.

And for all those people arguing that this will make Newbie Players just as good as Veteran Players I say bull. What we got ARE noobs running around as powerfull as Vets. Hell I met a level 80 enforcer who has only been playing one week. His first week in AO he goes from 1-80 from his friends twinking and powerleveling him. The guy stopped to ask me how to get to Galway Shire from Rome. A level 80 who doesn't know how to get to Galway Shire from Rome.

What this means is now it will all come down to player skill and not equipment. We can see who the real worthy level 10 Rookies are.

[___________Zyxlquith]

Alright, as if I haven't said enough already...

As a trader, I am in the unique position of getting to observe twinking in its final step-- the wrangle. Today I had the delight of wrangling several people (and no, I only work for tips, what you pay is fine with me). Three brought me-- and my customers-- particular joy. All were engineers. One, a lvl 34 engineer casting some form of guardbot, the next a lvl 69 engineer casting a warbot RED to me at lvl 98 (and that, might I add, is a VERY cool thing to see), and the last... A slayerdroid appeared right where I was standing. In each case, this wrangle elicited delight from me, the engineer in question, and the newbies out in omni forrest killing leets where I was doing my work. They were not horrified. They were not jealous. They generally can be seen saying things like: WOW! what IS that thing! that thing is SO COOL. how do I get one?

And ya know what? I think that pretty much sums up why people twink...

Oh, one other bit of a ramble and a reminiscence:

when I was a young MA hunting as a neutral in varmint woods, I had the good fortune to be on a team with Cless. I doubt many people remmeber Cless... He was the first real trader on rubi-ka, and I didn't know just how great he was when I met him. He told me I needed more ncu, and I said... but complit is a blue skill and I can't afford to raise it. and he said "I can help you with that"

Oh, and he had the first vektor i'd ever seen. UGLY thing. I was pulling rhino beserkers out of a rhino village.... and he saved me several times. Saved the whole team. *chuckles*
he was probably lvl 46 then. and I think the vektor was ql 100 or so. we were all shocked. the entire team. jaws dropping in awe.

Was there a point to this post? oh yeah...

people do not over-equip to pvp and be l33t or however, y'all spell it. well not all people. heck, this world's awe-inspiring, there are a thousand cool things in it, if not more, and I personally don't see why you should be limiting our enjoyment one little bit. A lot of people on this planet still help each other out. I frequently wrangle "newbs" into weapons i'vebought for them, and give them 100k or more to start out with. why? 'cus I can. 'cus this is a great game and I don't want to see people leaving...

and people will leave if 14.2 does not change drastically between the time of Gaute's first article and its actual release on live.

think a bit. all of you. who does OE hurt? right. you got your answer?
how is OE wrong? again, you have your answer?
okay, now this is how i see it. OE hurts because it causes jealousy, and because it means that the POD type info you get when you target someone is not "all there is to see." In other words, there is more--or less- than meets the eye about just about every person on Rubi Ka right now.
Well now think about the various mobs we meet... we all know an NPC trader is a heck of a lot scarier than an NPC crat, and most people avoid chem-damage mutants if they're smart. How many people solo, oh, a life-bleeder by choice, even if it is yellow or green?
Over-equipping bye buffing-- the form of over-equipping this patch will put an end to-- is one of the easiest and cheapest ways to customize your character. a 132 wrangle costs, on average, 250k. a full set of implants that would raise ALL your weapons and nanoskills 132 points would cost over 1 million credits from the store. In a very real way, this patch would favor the wealthy, while enforcing mundane same-ness on our population.

that's how I see it

as for OE stopping role-playing... I have no problem with people role-playing highly skilled atheltic types/perfectly crafted killing machines/elite soldiers. Apparently Funcom does... because they're going to remove the tools to do just that. They leave us harlot-clothing of course hey, CZ, when're you guys going to put in DECENT clothes for respectable women?

right, enough rambling. this thread's too long already

Zyxlquith again
lvl 98 (40k to 99!) Trader, RK1
acting president Omni Shadow Ops
formerly Ariste, lvl 65 MA
Kobalet lvl 30something NT
Saeryn lvl 30something Adventurer

[_________________Zuh]

Originally posted by Darkbob8
opps ok i just read Zuh's huge post on the page before mine and he is right its a very good idea but i still think that level caps on weapons(not judged by their QL) could be good.

I am very happy to see that at least one person have given attention to my post : ).

Thanx a lot Darkbob


However I would just like to add that a level caps on weapon is not a good idea at all, especially in the solution I proposed. Because I proposed that OE still always you bonus, but lower and lower bonus as you become more and more OEed. You just gain very few bonus when you are twinked like mad.

Scumbug is in the same ideas than I I think. Our solutions, very close in the basis, can make everybody happy, the OEers and the non-OEers. So why nobody criticize them ??? I feel like everybody like them, so maybe FC have to consider them seriously. Afterall 14.2 is not for tomorow, they have time. They have done the good choice to share with players their ambitions for a distance patch.


My post is page 79, check it out. I will post a new one with well thought explanations and formulas next day I think. All with integer and clear simple formula.

[Lukavi]

Originally posted by Drabin
FC,

Make another server called the "Whine Server". All characters that don't want changes that attempt to balance the game as it is can click on a cheese icon and be transferred over to the whine server. The whine server allows full OE, has no PvP timer, allows grid camping, allows PvP'ers the luxury of 25% zones in the whole game, gives every profession EXACTLY what they want where combat is concerned, all nerfs are lifted, all rare instruction discs are found on 1 of 3 mobs, and /petitions do not exist.

You could also allow exploits, duping creds/items, and give the world a Monty Python perspective on riches.

Well spoken, I couldnt have said it better myself.

[____________Darkbob8]

If funcom has enough players then they should create a smaller PVP server or Real World server where there isnt any supression gas but you can only attack people on the other side(Clanners can attack Omnis and Neutrals but not other Clanners). But on this server you can only OE to 20% above your level in ql. Or they could have the OE patch come into effect only in PvP areas. 50% gas and lower.

-Darkbob8

[____________Phelisha]

i hate all these people who chew us engineers our cuz we like to have powerhouse bots.

well guess what? we dont get anything else! we have no buffs! we cant remake our pets at will! server crashes, or you lose conn our bots are gone for good!!

we dont have spells to help us in combat!
those crappy ac ones are beyond pathetic unless you already have tweaked out armor!!

name ONE thing that the engineer has going for them BESIDES there bot!
can anyone? no realy, i wanna know, cuz if there is something im missing here then id like to know it!

[________Adolanabantz]

put me on the negative list...

ya my post said I was for it but the ends don't justify the means... good idea but lousy implementation...


I repeat for clarity:

Dealing with OE is fine but NERF THE DAMN MOBS FIRST or this game is history (for me at least.. who needs the frustration?)

[______________Xandru]

* plays the violine for Master Wong/Drabin *

sheesh someone has one twink and ya get bent outta shape, 5 creds say if you had the money you'd do it too.

There are too many flaws in the patch that weighs down the good. OE may or may not be a problem ( it has never effect my game personally ) but I do know that with what Funcom is proposing is insane.

[___________TreeTrunk]

*(# Incoming transmission!@@#

@$*WS@234 MMORPGs are broken by the human drive for winning. 23 dshak r328 #$#$*!FSASAERF:H

34783 THGS ROX F Ignore winners. Play game. %^* NO @#$@ Ghas 345,33.223:X No winners in game anyway. Winners are fooling selves for monthly fee. Stop.

*(*End Transmission*(*