Over-equipping - here we go....

[_________Truejustice]

OK I gotta chime in on this one....

1- First off for all you folks who feel that OE will ruin the feel of the game and that veteran players are going to be gimped you gotta remember that it will work in stages, for every 20%of OE you will lose 25% effectiveness, many people will still be able to OE and get a much better advantage than the lazy player that people that this patch subscibes to, a ql 200 weapon with 25% reduction in effectiveness is still far better than its lower QL counter part, most poeple I feel will fall into this catagory, meaning being afected by just 1 level of the penalty, this is patch is meant to stop the 10th level mega twinker using the QL60 weapon, do the math, you'll find that the smart, well thought out OE player will still have an advantage.

2- wrangles, well they should be upped in duration if they are to be effective in team play, at least to 20-30 min, as far as lost revenu, well I can't really say I'm sorry as most traders have really taken advantage of the wrangle on an extream level, while others were charging 10-100k for buffs, you guys were robbing people for 300k a shot.

3- Debuffs, well I play an NT and I live in fear of traders in missions, and in PVP, I get debuffed, I run! Funcom has to fix nano resist to make this attack not so fatal, traders will still rule the PVP arena, more so as far as I'm concerned.

4- Engy, well what can I say, you can't solo 100% missions any more I really feel for you....not really, you've made a ton of easy XP, you've had your fun so come back down to earth and see that the game should be challanging.

I feel funcom is making these changes to allow some social aspects of the game to come through, As Gaute said soloing was not supposed to be the be all end all of the game. Also Funcom has been working very hard to balance out the game and to do that I'm sure they plan to add new items and abilities, doing so with the current system would only further the gap between the uber player and the casual gamer( there are probably more casual gamers than you think, we probably out number the hard core gamers!) At length, why don't we wait and see what happens before we jump to conclusions, aside from a few silly mistakes AO has greatly improved in the past few months, the game play is better, some classes have been drasticly improved, and others are in the process, Agents are up next, I for one am very curious how they'll do, it seemed they actually listend to what the agents wanted( conceal to work on players) they have shown they can change the game for the better, let them do it for God sakes..

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by killerbee69

Remember the customer is always right!!!!!!!!!!

I suppose those that want this aren't customers and our opinions don't matter?

Some of us, like me, wanted a 0% overequip rule. 20% in a nice compromise although it's still high, favoring the OEer. Either way, I'm willing to give it a shot, how come you're jumping up and screaming? Because I don't matter?

[____________Maitrize]

The point I have is that there is a level of overequipping that isn't just an exploit.

You can OE a shotgun with shotgun expertise. 0% wouldn't allow this.

If you have a nano for your profession that ups a particular stat (say for example rifle by 80, EXAMPLE...) you could use +80 to rifle to equip the gun but if there is the 0% allowance you could only use the rifle as long as the buff lasted then it would pop off. That's...

no fun. ;_;

[____________Phelisha]

Originally posted by killerbee69
Did Funcom forget how their game was created. They put OE into this game, and I find it hard to believe that when the game was envisioned, OE was probably a selling point against other online games.


Hey FUNCOM, do you know how many online ROLE PLAYING GAMES are comin out this year. Even if you lose 20 or 30 percent of your customer to this OE issue, you'll be ok. But your probably gonna lose another 20% to Star Wars Galaxy, AC2, Necron, Dragon Empire, Super Hero(online game), and who knows how many games will debut in 2003.


This Cut and DRY move is not a smart business decision. I'm telling you because I really like the state of the game. Do something to stop level 10 characters from OE too much, but don't hurt characters that are at least 50+ in level. If someone sticks with the game that long, by getting better implants and buying buffs, let them use it.

I and thousands of other dedicated customers like the game.


Remember the customer is always right!!!!!!!!!!

And you guys created the buffing and implants for that reason!!!!!!!!!


Your Pvp system doesnt mean anything now.

Whats next, yu die and lose loot, like in Ultima Online, or Everquest.

Someone in Funcom is neither playing the game enough, nor thinking out of the box.


To Fix OE at low levels, you need to THINK OUT OF THE BOX...


NOT SMOKE THE BOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Killerbee69 LVL 94 agent
Pvpman LVL 107 MP
Killerbe LVL 28 MA

Now, you make sense, i agree with you completly.
hehe, plus that was just plain funny (dont smoke the box he says, hehehe)

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by UselessPlastic
Okay let me get this right. I have a 53 MA if I put in 100ql implants into her will raise her attack. However, after this new patch when the buffs run out will her damage output suffer?

Also Mr. Funcom Meta's aren't going to like it that everyone else can still use thier 200lv guns at reduced damage and they can't use thier pet at all.

-You can make the pet harder to control, or dumb down the damage but don't make it so they can't even use it. I called Mrs. Cleo and she said, "Yus in a bigga truoble mista Fooncom!"

Implants won't be affected.

20% is huge. You have to do the math. My level 65 Engineer will be able to keep a level 100 bot with no problems. If you get debuffed your pet will continue to fight at full power, this is very important. So if your pet is fighting 4 opponents and you get debuffed, it will continue to fight at full power.

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Maitrize
The point I have is that there is a level of overequipping that isn't just an exploit.

You can OE a shotgun with shotgun expertise. 0% wouldn't allow this.

If you have a nano for your profession that ups a particular stat (say for example rifle by 80, EXAMPLE...) you could use +80 to rifle to equip the gun but if there is the 0% allowance you could only use the rifle as long as the buff lasted then it would pop off. That's...

no fun. ;_;

You keep the buff running. They have a timer for another reason besides taking up cpu cyles for show.

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by Drabin
This is the corrected version. Oh Dogmatize, let's see there were 3 corrections. I placed you from the positive list to the negative list when I should of had you on the neutral list because your first post mentioned nothing about whether or not you were for or against. I moved Cryncyn (mispelled perhaps) from the neutral poll to the Positive poll and moved DrCam from the Neutral poll to the negative poll.

Like I said I am going by first poll message entries - (NOT 23 entries by one person) - if you want to slide to one side of the list just say Drabin, change me from this to this. As it stands - no other complaints except for 3 people - one of which was in the right slot the whole time.

This "poll" is very misleading. Those who are "neutral" to the patch may very well see that it unbalances classes even more-so than they already are, especially their ability to solo and not rely on others. They may be listed in the neutral collumn because their characters may not be directly affected by this patch (same with the people in the positive collumn) as much as others'.

Overall, I think everybody agrees that this "fix" will create serious balance issues. The main arguments in this thread have been people going back and forth who think they will be nerfed too hard, and people who are trying to do math telling them that they won't be nerfed as much as they think. Regardless, it is very apparent by the patch notes and the article(s) released about overequipping that this does nothing but unbalance classes, while hurting the vast majority of the gaming community who have overequipped to make their character what it is today.

Ok, the rules are changing. But with these changing rules, certain professions now have outrageous disadvantages to others, specifically those professions which rely *SOLELY* on their pets (Engis, Crats) which will now ignore them when a buff wears off, and Fixers who don't do all that much dmg anyway with their already overequipped guns.

This is much like the team missions thing and the argument of not splitting XP when completing single-person missions as a team. People said not to implement that change until team missions are ready.

Well, I say do not implement the OE patch the way the article describes until you can balance how the classes will end up post-patch. I could care less about armor or weapons not doing as much damage as before, or not protecting me quite as much if I slightly exceed the 20% cap limit. But to have pet-reliant professions be stranded if their buffs wear off, while a MP is running around with the darkest red pets possible, is not fair. If you say it is, then you have mEnTaL pRoBlEmS.



--Tsk

[____________Phelisha]

Originally posted by Dr. Sent


Implants won't be affected.

20% is huge. You have to do the math. My level 65 Engineer will be able to keep a level 100 bot with no problems. If you get debuffed your pet will continue to fight at full power, this is very important. So if your pet is fighting 4 opponents and you get debuffed, it will continue to fight at full power.

WHAT?!?! lvl 65 engineer kep a 100 bot?
what a load of bull**** that is!
im lvl 70 and the best im gonna bebale to do is a lvl 91!
unless you have ql 150 implants in that you OE'd to get, then i DOUBT your gonna get anything above an 75.
(i have ql90 implants on, without insane buffs to get them)

[_____________Knarled]

u know from reading all the posts the impression I get is that truly the people who are going to be hurt the most by this patch are the people who "work the hardest" at overequipping the most......now I am not under any delusion that this will fix all problems.....and ppl who are twinked always find some new angle to work......but this will at least allow the average player......(read: most ppl like myself who never ever come in here and post ) a fair chance playing the game as it is supposed to be played....An RPG......yes the ppl who have spent all the time at becoming proficient at pvp'ing "deserve" to be better at it....but this is not quake or unreal tournament....it is not a shooter.....we should not worry that as soon as we enter 25% or free for all zones (where missions lvl 100 and above are mostly located) that we are going to be slaughtered the moment we step away from the zone. We are aware that it is dangerous there.....but it would be nice to know that if u run into somebody equal to or lower than u.....u at least stand a fighting chance of running your ass out of there......I think everybody (overequippers particularly) should sit back and see how this works......if it is totally messed up they will change it again like they have b4.......what do u ppl want ......truly this is a still quite new genre........if it pisses u off so much that u cant stand being brought back down to "mortal" levels.......go find some other new game to exploit and piss all the ppl there off........

but thats just my opinion..........
lol.....first time I ever posted......guess I will get flamed right??

[____________Maitrize]

Originally posted by Dr. Sent


You keep the buff running. They have a timer for another reason besides taking up cpu cyles for show.

But keeping track of it would be like doing bloodwork for diabetes. This is a GAME, not meant to be a chore.

[___________*Arumite*]

Originally posted by Phelisha


omg, shut up kid, you dont know what your talking about.
you may not be arrogant but your thick headed.

your oblivious as to whats going on around you.
funcom isnt exactly in a very good financial situation here.
NOW, i dont mean to be bluint and harsh twards you but for some this must be spelled out.

.

OMG, your no different from the rest, i am as concerned about the overall concensus as everyone else. but im not self-centered about it. and i dont state my ideas as if they are the only solution, do it cause its the only right way, i am the only one that knows whats going on, i and the others that think like me are the only ones that are right.

thats bs. most of you that flame these patches make up these elaborate excuses on why it should not be implemented not for the better of the community "You should think before you do this FunCom", "There would be Widespread effects on every prof in the game" but in fact to just to save your own butt from getting your own over extravagant priviledges taken away from you.

im not saying that everyone that is against patches like this are like that... some have valid points and you can tell they are sincere.

but as with my previous post the rest of you (a very small percentage judging by the polls that are being done) are just trying preserve the way you play and dont give a flying fart about what everyone else goes through...

im an mp... heck ya this patch is gonna affect me.... im lvl 99 with other higher lvl chars as well... the only natural pet i can get from lvls 50 to 99 is the store bought QL 113 pet which is yellow at 90... wont be able to even think bout casting any higher on my own or even infuses til 105+ maybe higher... so YES this is going to severely cripple me and everyone else... but after all my posts this is the first time ive mentioned it... and im for the patch... and i will continue to be FOR patches like this in the future...

again this is Not your game... Did you come up with the concept? Do you work for FunCom? Are the characters and events fictions out of your own imagination? NO i think not... It is FunCom's Artistic creation... We dont pay to OWN it ... WE pay to PARTAKE in it... and if FunCom is nice enough to even let us talk about what we would like in it THEN THAT IS A PRIVILEDGE INDEED!!!

[Lukavi]

Originally posted by Phelisha


WHAT?!?! lvl 65 engineer kep a 100 bot?
what a load of bull**** that is!
im lvl 70 and the best im gonna bebale to do is a lvl 91!
unless you have ql 150 implants in that you OE'd to get, then i DOUBT your gonna get anything above an 75.
(i have ql90 implants on, without insane buffs to get them)

lol as I meantioned before Ive seen lvl 70 Engis with lvl 140+ slayerdroids, its rediculous and cheap. Not to mention downright cheating, is any enemy that a lvl 70 engi will fight (and get 13k exp from) with a droid that strong really EVER have the fear of dying? Nope, didnt think so.

[____________Maitrize]

Originally posted by ENF*Isarugi

lol as I meantioned before Ive seen lvl 70 Engis with lvl 140+ slayerdroids, its rediculous and cheap. Not to mention downright cheating.

Cheating is only such if it's outside the natural perimeters of the game. If that eng used the right buffs, implants and accessories, it's 100% legit, thus, valid, and not "cheating". Let's not unjustly label people.

[____________Phelisha]

Originally posted by ENF*Isarugi


lol as I meantioned before Ive seen lvl 70 Engis with lvl 140+ slayerdroids, its rediculous and cheap. Not to mention downright cheating, is any enemy that a lvl 70 engi will fight (and get 13k exp from) with a droid that strong really EVER have the fear of dying? Nope, didnt think so.

what?!!?!? lvl 70 with a slayer droid?!?!?! how in hell si that even possible!
TELL ME!

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by Truejustice
4- Engy, well what can I say, you can't solo 100% missions any more I really feel for you....not really, you've made a ton of easy XP, you've had your fun so come back down to earth and see that the game should be challanging.

Haha, not really. With +20 self buff and +50 Masteries from an MP, I have great trouble completing 75% missions. Not small missions, but the large cave-type missions with 60+ rooms and 60+ mobs. I've often had to run out of a mission in the first room because multiple dark red (yes, all dark red at 75%) mobs are all over my bot and I, and well, I have to run because I can't take the beating my bot can, and when I come back, my bot is dead.

Maybe if I had mochams+wrangle it would have made a difference, but I'm using +50 from masteries as showing that we do not have it all that easy with a smaller buff from another profession -- much less self-buff-only if our "uber buffs" wear off after this patch.

You want challenging? Try playing a doctor and go solo some missions. That is challenging (unless you dump enormous amounts of much-needed IP into shotgun , but then you can't keep up with heals).

--Tsk

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by *Arumite*


your just like all those people in game who sit at the grid in 2ho or mmd waiting for some newbie to come by so you can 1 hit kill him... or one of those buffing classes that refuses to do anything for anyone unless you are payed or praised. you play the game to be better than everyone else. I play to have fun.

for the record,
- i never zone camped, and rallied for the graceperiod.
- you cannot one-hit kill anyone anymore.
- none of my characters can alpha-strike 3-hit kill either.
- i do not PvP except in defense
(missioning/hunting in PvP zone and someone attacks me or my team)
- my trader wrangles for free and if someone offers a tip i say
"whatever it's worth to you"

but you're right. i do play to be better. it's a competative game.

'better' doesnt mean overpowered or godlike or imbalancing.
better means that extra effort and preperation yields
above-average results. this proposal forces everyone to be
equally average at every level. i don't consider that fun.

[Lukavi]

Originally posted by Maitrize


Cheating is only such if it's outside the natural perimeters of the game. If that eng used the right buffs, implants and accessories, it's 100% legit, thus, valid, and not "cheating". Let's not unjustly label people.

Look, I really dont care what Engis do. I have a low lvl one that I never use because Im sick of seeing my bot be yellow to me. So I can see why it would be cool to have one that is 4 times my damn lvl. However, I feel that, going completely out of your way to "exploit" the game in the sense that you can make a droid that is basically invincible to any enemy that you will find in a 100% mission, IMO IS cheating. I dont think it was ever intended by FC to have lvl 60-80 engis making droids twice their lvl to fight like a high lvl enforcer while they sit in the back and plug away at the mob for an extra insane amount of damage with their lvl 150+ shotgun. But like I said before, i really dont care, Im merely tired of people complaing about not being able to do things that they where never meant to be able to do in the first place. It just took people determined enough to want to be invincible for FC to notice these mistakes...

[____________Phelisha]

Originally posted by *Arumite*



OMG, your no different from the rest, i am as concerned about the overall concensus as everyone else. but im not self-centered about it. and i dont state my ideas as if they are the only solution, do it cause its the only right way, i am the only one that knows whats going on, i and the others that think like me are the only ones that are right.

thats bs. most of you that flame these patches make up these elaborate excuses on why it should not be implemented not for the better of the community "You should think before you do this FunCom", "There would be Widespread effects on every prof in the game" but in fact to just to save your own butt from getting your own over extravagant priviledges taken away from you.

im not saying that everyone that is against patches like this are like that... some have valid points and you can tell they are sincere.

but as with my previous post the rest of you (a very small percentage judging by the polls that are being done) are just trying preserve the way you play and dont give a flying fart about what everyone else goes through...

im an mp... heck ya this patch is gonna affect me.... im lvl 99 with other higher lvl chars as well... the only natural pet i can get from lvls 50 to 99 is the store bought QL 113 pet which is yellow at 90... wont be able to even think bout casting any higher on my own or even infuses til 105+ maybe higher... so YES this is going to severely cripple me and everyone else... but after all my posts this is the first time ive mentioned it... and im for the patch... and i will continue to be FOR patches like this in the future...

again this is Not your game... Did you come up with the concept? Do you work for FunCom? Are the characters and events fictions out of your own imagination? NO i think not... It is FunCom's Artistic creation... We dont pay to OWN it ... WE pay to PARTAKE in it... and if FunCom is nice enough to even let us talk about what we would like in it THEN THAT IS A PRIVILEDGE INDEED!!!

kid, ya just arent lookin hard enough, ppl are saying that this well effect the classes and will screw the game becuase it will.
people dont do things for no reason. posting anythign here thats a lie is pointless and lame.
now, im not exactly 100% against this patch, but i am scared at the thought that this game will be killed by it.
like someone else already said, other games are coming out as well, and adding those to the ammount that leave here now will be tremendous.

as for you being a MP, yer pets wont be to low for you, first off you have 3 of them, secoand off you get infuse, and then you get mochams later. thats all you realy need. MP's are set for the game, engineers are at a even lower point then ever.
has anyone here even played an engineer? its like a 1-2 hit kill on you without tweaked armor against even the grey mobs that are 10 lvl's below you. without something to compensate for how killable we are and now how weakened we are, the engineer class is worthless.

but like i had previously said, i hate seeing people like you whishing people just pack up and go if they dislike the patch.
that means that AO will lose alot of money and eventually go broke.
now this worries me, and i dont wish to leave this game, or see it die, and if it does happen then people like you that wished for it will be blamed and flamed to death.

(by the way, dont cut my original post like that, made it look pointless)

[____________Phelisha]

Originally posted by Scumbug


for the record,
- i never zone camped, and rallied for the graceperiod.
- you cannot one-hit kill anyone anymore.
- none of my characters can alpha-strike 3-hit kill either.
- i do not PvP except in defense
(missioning/hunting in PvP zone and someone attacks me or my team)
- my trader wrangles for free and if someone offers a tip i say
"whatever it's worth to you"

but you're right. i do play to be better. it's a competative game.

'better' doesnt mean overpowered or godlike or imbalancing.
better means that extra effort and preperation yields
above-average results. this proposal forces everyone to be
equally average at every level. i don't consider that fun.

nor do i consider such a predictable and average game fun, yet some people do it to the extent of making it unfair for most.
this patch should be made to fix that (which it isnt)

[____________Rockpitt]

Well ..... In my opinion, someone else's ability to overequip has never really affected my game play. I spend less than 5% of my online time in PvP and my average is about 50%. Are my losses due to my opponents OE or bad luck (i.e. poor damage)? Are my wins due to my OE or my oppenents ineptness? No one on these boards can say. As for the other aspects of the game, other players OE has no effect on my missions and in grouping its usually helpful in leveling when my group members are OE.

As far as my own abilitities are concerned, I use whatever the game allows and just deal with it. So I guess I don't feel too strongly either way on the OE issue. With one exception.

When very low players use extremely high QL equipment I think it destroys the spirit of the game. Generally, I think players in any game should perform in the neighborhood of their level with the challenge being to improve. In a way I think extreme OE undermines this challenge. I've read some posts that say the posters don't want a challenge. Its too much like work for just a game. But isn't the challenge the basis for any game? (For the record I do not think that self buffing or using buffs from other classes of similar level is OE). I will add that I think unless Funcom makes some mob adjustments classes like the Soldier and Fixer, who really rely on OE just to be mediocre, will be in some trouble.

As for the IP reset, I've always been for that. I am what you might call the casual player so I can't wait to fix some of my more costly IP mistakes that go all the way back to day one.