Over-equipping - here we go....

[________________Caol]

Originally posted by Beagle
I'm a level 52 Enforcer who had real good friend wrangle me into a QL 105 Sledge that requires +100 skill than I have. I don't exploit because I RAISED MY OWN SKILL ABOUT +60-75! NOW MY BUFFS ARE USELESS? BECAUSE IF U RAISE THE QL OF THE WEAPON 20% ABOVE YOUR SKILL THEN SUBTRACT THE DAMAGE BY 25% DOESNT THAT DECREASE YOUR DAMAGE? AND SO MY FRIENDS TRADER IS NOW USELESS BECAUSE HE WRANGLES... AND MY LOW TRADER? I HATE THIS NEW PATCH! SO NOW, I CANT SOLO 3 SHADES AT SW WHICH IS LVL 40 CAUSE MY WEAPON IS ONLY QL 80! AND NOW YOU HAVE TO HAVE A FULL TEAM OF 6 TO FIGHT AT NW? BECAUSE ALMOST EVERYBODY (YES EVERYBODY!) USES A WEAPON HIGHER THAN THEIR LEVEL! AND MOST OF THEM PAY HUGE AMOUNTS OF CREDS FOR A WRANGLE! WELL, SO LONG AND REVISE THE PATCH! ONLY BRING DOWN THE ATTACK OF THE EXPLOITERS NOT THE ONES THAT USE SMALL WRANGLES OF ONLY ABOUT +20-25!

I think you're upset, right? Well, you should be. This patch is flawed to bits by just looking at the patch notes. :P

[_______________Snuis]

Originally posted by Lanasia
Let's cut the crap here.

He's the simplest of solutions:

All items you have are checked for stats. If stats are not met, 0% effect, broken, not functioning. You want the item, you SPEND THE IP.

One stat of all will not be checked: Treatment on implants. This was intended. The actual required stat (agility, stam, int, etc) on the other hand WILL be checked. Treatment will of course be buffable by Omni-Med suit, +80 doc, +20 gen, and +100 treatment clinic, and other possible minor boosts such as Biomech back/head and Sugarfree Rum - Doctor.


This applies to all things, nanos, weapons, NCU, etc.


Debuffs will debuff skills but not disable items, PERIOD. No, you are NOT allowed to debuff their agil and watch all their implants fall off (and thus all equipment relying on said implants). Trader debuffs would be DEBUFFS TO SKILL, not insane nano and equipment-locking nanos. The loss of crit chance and overall damage, and increased fumble rate for nanos is ENOUGH. If a debuff ever moved a skill into a negative number (like a soldier's -4000 to all nanoskills from Mk sheild) at that point in time the items/nanos will lock from debuff. Nanoshutdown will still be nano shut down, but Unmakes and Divests will only be fumble increasers.

It's simple - you want the equipment, then you surrender an implant cluster spot or spend the IP. No more funny tricks or silly senseless processes designed to put on crap your profession can't possibly afford to use without temporary implants that you're going to take out.

And the mobs? No, whatever AC subtraction FunCom did wasn't enough - half mob HP or less as of right now. Maybe damage too for all I know.

Debuffs better not be counting here, because traders are get ENOUGH from their debuffs as is already. Nano users are not being allowed to cast nanos they have 80% of the skill to cast, so shape up and cut this over-equipping crap out already.

Wonderful wonderful post. All this 20% stuff is too artificial. Math will rule Rubi-Ka.
This is what the game was supposed to be like. Implement it exactly as Lanasia described and immediately start balancing. It'll be a shock but a healthy one.

[________________Caol]

Originally posted by Scumbug
This patch turns Anarchy Online into the Special Olympics,
where everybody gets the same gold medal just for participating.

Not only will all characters of the same level be equally mediocre,
but now the choices you make along the way dont matter either.

I was all for a mandatory IP reset with automatic deequiping to
1) erase the advantage of exploiters
2) compensate players for funcoms mistakes/nerfs.
but it should never be considered as a permenant feature.

In this one article/patch, AO has gone from a
competative strategy-based game to button-mashing drivel.

Have fun on your passive leveling treadmil.

Funcom, have you stopped to consider that in this genre
keeping your hardcore dedicated competative players
might be more profitable in the long-term than pissing
off most of your existing playerbase (who stuck with you
all this time) to appease short-attention-span kiddies
who can't fathom a game that asks more of them than their PS2?

*claps* Well written and pinned on the point of things.

[TemplarRed]

Originally posted by Akasha
I am against this patch because it's no more than a cop-out for FC. Whiners said they weren't good enough and they wanted to make those better to be as bad as them, and FC bent over willingly. Period. That's how this OE "fix" came about.

I couldn't applaud this statement enough.

Back in school, I can't remember a teacher or admin EVER making conditions more difficult for a student if she or he was performing over 20% beyond his ability.

And at every job I've ever worked at, my employers have NEVER docked anyone's wages to bring them in line with the average, if one person put forth the effort to get an extra 20% overtime bonus.

For want it's worth, these changes are going to have virtually no impact on my Doc. I just don't like seeing other peoples' game being ruined (and, I would've liked to have the option of playing a Trader or Agent, & self-buffing into my gear without punishment). I find it sad that the basis for so many peoples' stance on this issue is: A.) What profession that person plays, & B.) What kind of impact does this have on me?

With this in mind, it stands to reason that more people would favor such changes, as the majority of people in-game are NOT mid-level Traders, mid-level Agents, or PvP pet users (i.e., the people getting destroyed). And hell, any nerf against everyone else just elevates your own rosy ass, right? Pathetic.

Another thing... why the hell are so many high level pro-nerf people posting here again & again & again? This doesn't affect you in the least. You're beyond that now. Why do you want to have the game ruined for whatever minority of mid-level players of a few specific professions? Why would you even care?

You old-timer flame war pros, who've been coming here daily for months in hopes of pissing someone off, need not respond. I won't honor anyone by mentioning names; you know who you are.

-Templar Red

[______________Lilith]

Originally posted by Scumbug
Funcom, have you stopped to consider that in this genre
keeping your hardcore dedicated competative players
might be more profitable in the long-term than pissing
off most of your existing playerbase (who stuck with you
all this time) to appease short-attention-span kiddies
who can't fathom a game that asks more of them than their PS2?

"hardcore dedicated competative players (who stuck with you all this time)" will most probably keep playing. They endured all, adapted, and will adapt again.

While the 'short-attention-span kiddies' will probably come back, or stay longer now that it is fixed,....

So yes, it might be more interesting to nerf OE

The only people who will leave are those who can't adapt and play the game under normal conditions... so they might as well buy a PS2

[____________Fpockets]

wow i just posted a replay about 10 minutes ago and its already 1 page back heheheh

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Lilith



"hardcore dedicated competative players (who stuck with you all this time)" will most probably keep playing. They endured all, adapted, and will adapt again.

absolutly not.
I've played many hours every day since day1 of US release.
I thought I'd be playing everyday for the next several years.
It never ever crossed my mind that I would cancel AO.
I wanted to play until the day they shut the servers down.
I'm gone immediately if this happens.

The only people who will leave are those who can't adapt and play the game under normal conditions... so they might as well buy a PS2

these arent 'normal conditions'.
this is a completely different game in the same wrapping.

[Darkbane]

Originally posted by Cosmik


No, implants (nor belts and belt components) won't be affected like guns and armor. That'd be messy.

And render a lot of the OE patch ineffective - this DOES need to be looked into. Any such item that you do not meet the stat reqs. for (not counting the item itself) (maybe allowing 20%? maybe not...) should cease to function (become 'redded' out in equipment window). This could of course have a cascade effect, so yes, it could be messy... but I'm sure there is something that can be done.

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by diu
Talking about Traders being a buffing machine during team battling? I hope the Creaters of Trader Wranglers know that the wrangler will only last 3 minutes, which also means that Traders in team will need to do a wrangler buff for other players in team every 3 minutes. In this sense, Funcom is Forcing Traders to be a buffing machine! Which is completely against the original idea of not creating professions as a buffing machine!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you and every other trader are complaining. though i never see you denigh to take the money you demand to give a wrangle.

wrangles are POWERFULL and offer temporary unballance in favor of the the one receiving the wrangle. temporary ... unballance.... FC is trying to bring balance to this game! they are being ----much--- more kind about it that I would be should I have been the director.. i would have taken wrangles out completely or made them trade skill buffs only.

be happy i'm not in charge. >:|


AO is a role playing game, a "MMORPG" see those three leters ther at the end ? RPG. they stand for "Role. Playing. Game."
go back to quake. Oh wait. thats right you have no -real- skill you only have abuse of the system. What on earth would you do in a game such as Tribes2?? Where -every- player has the same statistics and its all about -your own skill- not the abuse you've managed to sneak through the cracks. Oh yea (takes half a second to think) you'd die. alot.

I play Tribes for the sheer joy of gibby bits blastered to my characters armor. cause i'm good like that. In AO i have to -develope- my character along his/her's line of greatest potential so that I may be paradoxially equal to another of a different class at the same level.

AO has the makings of a -great- game for REAL players. Everyone complaining about not being able to wear a ql200 stigma (my vice) can just go shove off and join AC or UO (blackthorn release is out, go play and be Uber there).

This patch will have my personal freinds joining en mass. They hadn't played earlier because of rumored (true) bugs/glitches/ect.
Once they learned that its a stable, beautiful game, with unending possabiltiy for RP they nearly filled their shorts (herm...). but, did not join because of my anger over OE.

This is needed. 14.2 is happening. and only the good players will make it. I -cannot- wait for the chance to meet them. Even more, i'll be happy to be rid of the "can i get a buff" group. ----ever---- so happy.

so happy i'll buy the tech guys that Cz is reporting to (i do mornings and Cz is here to monitor me hehehe) afew rounds. fri, sat and sun. lets just hope that work isn't too hard to do with hangover

[camilaen]

Originally posted by Scumbug


absolutly not.
I've played many hours every day since day1 of US release.
I thought I'd be playing everyday for the next several years.
It never ever crossed my mind that I would cancel AO.
I wanted to play until the day they shut the servers down.
I'm gone immediately if this happens.


these arent 'normal conditions'.
this is a completely different game in the same wrapping.

Scumbug, I agree totally

Funcom, don't make us quit by throwing out a half-thought-out patch! At LEAST let it live on test for months!

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by Darkbane


And render a lot of the OE patch ineffective - this DOES need to be looked into. Any such item that you do not meet the stat reqs. for (not counting the item itself) (maybe allowing 20%? maybe not...) should cease to function (become 'redded' out in equipment window). This could of course have a cascade effect, so yes, it could be messy... but I'm sure there is something that can be done.

/me agree's
/me agree's

Easy solution(s). Reduce overall NCU storage by % for belts not meeting standard (see my post yesterday about my grandma with an athalon!) Reduce overall health by % for implants not meeting standard.

fair, and easy to impliment. without affecting the skill bonus gained from the implant... Everything there is a trade off. You want shotgun base damage? give up range. I like balance, its good.

Despet (trueneutral) omni-agent

[______________Lilith]

Originally posted by Scumbug


absolutly not.
I've played many hours every day since day1 of US release.
I thought I'd be playing everyday for the next several years.
It never ever crossed my mind that I would cancel AO.
I wanted to play until the day they shut the servers down.
I'm gone immediately if this happens.


these arent 'normal conditions'.
this is a completely different game in the same wrapping.

There is a difference between

planning implants / gear of the highest quality for your level

and

playing the game with implants / gear in your 20% range and survive.

These are different playstyles.

You may like the first one, when I may prefer the second. It doesnt really matter to me.

What matters is that people who put effort in leveling their character should be able to level and be proud of it.

OE'rs plan, assemble artificial characters, level without much risk, level faster, and make PvP impossible for others... so you chose to play the leveling game in godmode. You chose the easy ride.

Those who play the game in the normal range on the other hand, take risks, die more often, and their levels are more meaningful. Yet, most OE'rs refer to them as clueless newbies.

On the social level of this game, those who took the easy way reap more rewards than those who play the game the hardway.

Risk vs Reward is non existant. Maybe it will come to reality with the patch.

If Risk becomes a factor, small players will leave and go back to their Quake cheats...

[camilaen]

Originally posted by Lilith


There is a difference between

planning implants of the highest quality for your level

and

playing the game with implants in your 20% range and survive.

These are different playstyles. You may like the first one, when I may prefer the second. It doesnt really matter to me. What matters is that people who put effort in leveling their character should be able to level and be proud of it. OE'rs plan, assemble artificial characters, level without much risk, level faster, and make PvP impossible for others... so you chose to play the leveling game in godmode. You chose the easy ride.

Lilith, you say that it doesn't really matter to you.. then why do you absolutely have to counter others' opinions..?
And OE isn't god-mode. It's actually not an "easy ride" at all.

[________________Heya]

I Really understand why people over-equipp, i really do!
Its nice to have the added firepower when you fight uber red mobs with 18k hp.
But the fact of the matter is a lvl 30 trader should NOT be able to use a ql 145 shottgun as someone claimed he did earlier in this thread, its absurd to put it mildly.
And a lvl 70ish agent should NOT be able to use the absolute finest and best sniper rifle in the entier game.
C'mon a lvl 70 (n00b) with a PREMIUM stigma rifle! It really it is kind of fu*ked up.

Sure your dmg output is dependant on your atk rating but you will still make huge gains when using a way OE weapon.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christabel lvl120MP
Vandame lvl113MA
Plus a bunch of other characters.

[______________Wahoo.]

I would like to see true poll on this topic. That way there is no gray area of what the majority of people want in this game! I guess the truth is the decision has made. Even with all this feed back. I don't know where this buff machine crap came from. IF your rolling missions and someone wants a buff do it. If it makes you mad ignore them. Go somewhere else and roll missions. Now i just started an agent , for the first time i started to like the class. Has any of you seen any movies with a sniper in it. He or she comes from out of no where and hits you so hard your teeth rattle. Now without OE this simply will not happen. All you 'll see 4 things . Root , Run ,shoot and repeat. Now that is even if the damage is good enough. Maybe it's a mind set at this point however, it was a game style which was thrust upon me. This happens after getting the experance in the game. Oh and as far as my high level handing cash to my lowbee. It will still happen. I don't care if you believe twinking is un fair. If you don't like it i'd suggest you OE a good weapon and power level like mad before this OE patch comes out. Then you to can have good cash flow . Oh BTW i save all equipment so not only do i hand them cash they have there equipment to boot. This is if they need to get a pizza or something between killing full reds .Did you know pizza hut delivers to 4 holes ..lol .. it hot to!

[TemplarRed]

Originally posted by Desbet
because i can't leave well enough alone


TRADERS ARE NOT WARRIORS!!!

Hahaha! Why? Because this doesn't dovetail with your own personal view of the concept 'Trader', & how it applies (or rather, applied) in the 21st century? By that rationale, I suppose you also think that Doctors, Bureaucrats, & Engineers shouldn't be taking up arms either?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/jih/30.1hanson.html

And it wasn't just early Greece... history is full of aggressive cultures who did extensive trading; the vikings, many old Germanic tribes, and.. erm, Americans just to name a few.

Not that these facts apply to our 100% fictional world of AO, in any way whatsoever. In our make-believe world, you must kill in order to gain power, period. Every character in AO is a warrior.

-Templar Red

[______________Desbet]

Could a moderator make an adjustment to the primary post, the one that -hopefully- people read before they vent?

Mention that perhaps (if i'm right) OE will not be 'nerfed' simply changed so that the system will punish abuse of -uber- OE.

Example: I'm casting SB and general rifle+aimed boosts. I'm over equiping my rifle. I will be punished because I'm beyond the 20% range. BUT, I can buff myself into my weapons so there is no problem. OE will not hinder me, I shall only need be more mindfull of the time limits of my own buffs.

Example: I'm casting general rifle+aimed boosts. I'm over equiping my rifle. I am -NOT- over the 20% range. I will not be punished in the least if my buffs run out.

Example: I've gotten a trader to do a 100+ wrangle, a soldier to do riot control and (smg NF). I'm waaaaay OE my ql 180 Mausser. I will be -severly- punished in terms of damage reduction; for my abuse of OE.

You tell me. ALL OF YOU, tell me. How is this not fair? I'm going to have to make a link and I swear on everything I can think of I will drop it into a post quoting someone complaining about not wearing their uber-OE'd weapon.

Punishment is not fun. this is why they complain.

I feel sorry for ya'll at FC central for having to sort through their complaints for valid concerns. I have concerns now, but they revolve around IPR abuse, and I need to know more about it before I can write a report on it (or... I need to know someone will read it)

[________________Caol]

Ok, looks like we are in battle here. The "Oh, I'm lvl 9 and will kill you lvl 8 anytime cuz I'm better" plasyers and the "I'm lvl12 but can kill your gimpy lvl30 ass with one shot" players on each side.

Where am I? Oh I belong in the latter group. OE is fun and challanging. It takes brains. No exploits. Brains.

So why not do it simple? Let the OE people on to Rubi-Ka2, stick with the OE rules currently in effect, and let all the carebears and RPG fanatics out to RP and not PVP, on Rubi-Ka1. Even make the whole world 75% there. They don't PVP anyways. That's just griefing to them.

I guess I'll lose about 80% of my ingame friends due to 14.2. And god knows they sticked thru ALOT of BS. But this, this is not the drop that made it flow over... It's the tidal-wave that washed out all hope... (atleast for alot of em).

[_______________Intra]

I think he gets the impression that traders are not warriors in AO from the AO manual which states that traders are weak at all combat skills

http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten...06/trader.html

but being a fixer I know how innacurate those descriptions are


bring on 14.2

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by Lilith


These are different playstyles.

You may like the first one, when I may prefer the second. It doesnt really matter to me.

well, it sure as hell matters to me when i've given
several hundred dollars (2 accounts, 1 for gf)
and months of my life to a game i love.

the game i love is defined by the current rules.
not the pretty graphics. not the AO logo.

OE'rs plan, assemble artificial characters, level without much risk, level faster, and make PvP impossible for others... so you chose to play the leveling game in godmode. You chose the easy ride.

your exagerations make me want to call you bad names.

the game is challenging. even equiped to the max the game allows.
it should be damn near impossible to anyone who thinks
all they have to do is level and level and level without
any research or planning.

If Risk becomes a factor, small players will leave and go back to their Quake cheats...

fyi - i play no other videogames.
none have ever held my interest until AO.