Over-equipping - here we go....

[_________Leviathonss]

Sorry to go on again but.... i hadnt read all the posts, i saw one that caught my eye, Engineers/MP's/Crat's (Not an Engineer/MP/Crat myself BUT) The idea of may be making the pet 20-25% less effective would be better. Why not, porbably equal out the difference too, i mean why should my enforcer lvl 131 with ql 200 beam and full ql 200 armour be able to use it all with negative effects *only on the armour because my 2h blunt is well within the 20%* and engineers/MP's/crats cant use there pets at all? why force ppl to team? are we not alowwed to solo?? the whole pacth isnt to my liking but hell, if your gonna do it do it fair, pets should have HP/AS/AC reduced by the same amount as other ppl, the fun part of having a bigger bot is because it looks kewl lol, it might not be the main man anymore but hey, be Fair to the pet users (*cough* i shouldnt care bein an Enf but hey make it even) There is alot of other issues id like to address but i would not stop till i fall asleep. Im sure ill get told different by some1 soon but what the hell, i think i made a valid suggestion. .Peace Out.

[_______________Tyger]

Originally posted by Nexus900000
[B
i mean, whats the point of having a bot you can only use as long as the buff lasts??

-=Nexus=- [/B]

Lol, what the point of doing a uber-red-pet staying alive for ages which is able to kill nearly every mob ?

I sat down with an eng with one of my other chars and he was sending the pet to a npc mob. Pet dont get hurt, we lvled every 10 mins.

Fine...i stopped that after a few turns. But i am sure thats the way most engs like the game. Beeing uber with a pet which is able to kill nearly everything.

So the OE patch is going the right way. No uber ENG pets anymore. To compare that you will get the kamikaze pet some day.

And if you got deprived by a mob (or player) its the same as if i get deprived. No heal, less dmg - so i have to run.
I am glad to see other peeps running too now.

Tygma
lvl175 MA

[_____________Hextorr]

Originally posted by Tyger

And if you got deprived by a mob (or player) its the same as if i get deprived. No heal, less dmg - so i have to run.
I am glad to see other peeps running too now.

Tygma
lvl175 MA

ammen

lvl 170 Fixer, self equiped into everythign i own

[Cz]

Originally posted by Zeroshift
IMPORTANT QUESTION CZ
What about those who duped those 1k IP rings and were able to max every skill for their level?

The exploit team, not the designers, deals with those. If you know of any such characters still active in the game, I suppose sending the exploit team an e-mail would be appreciated.

[_____________Gemfire]

First of all let me say that the IPR sounds good.
However, I think FC really doesnt think things through well.
I have played up to lvl 30 in all the professions. My main is an engie. I remembered when the game launched I rolled an engie. I tried to do missions. First the npc's would hand me my broken bot then they would hand me my ass. I played for a couple of months then sat out for awhile. I have been back for about 3 weeks and I was so happy because the new engie could actually solo in missions. I dont know where people are getting engies can solo missions 75%(or whaterver is being said) above there lv. Its not true. From what I understand of this patch it sounds like its back to the npc's handen me my ass, and alot of the other proffesions as well.
But, and this is a big but, I am willing to wait and see how it works. It however is a thin rope that holds me to this game and it is fraying.

Bye the way if any profession is, has, and will continued to get spanked by FC it is the engineers. Tradeskill masters? Engineers? oh Im sorry you mean the traders or the docs, or the nts. The pet heal spells(which will become a very big neccesity if this patch goes the way i think) use skills that are dark blue to engies, and lets see it cost 3 times as much to make a nano spell from scratch as buying it in the shop, same goes for weapons. Why would anyone do tradeskills then? (sorry I know this is kinda off the topic but i had to vent. Spent 4 mill to buy tradeskill tools only to find out you can buy the stuff cheaper than you can make it.) Thanks for the time. Lol can we have an D.O.A. errr I mean E.T.A. for this patch?

[Cz]

Originally posted by lichoon
i wonder if this is the larget thread ever on this mesage board.

Yes, it is.

Anyhow, I have read through all additions since yesterday and taken new notes and such. The feedback from yesterday has been gone through by Gaute and others, and Gaute will be writing a new article to answer questions and shine some more light on the issues you have brought up. I hope this one will be out today, but it might not be until tomorrow.

Actually, I'll make an announcement on that, as this post will be lost in the fray pretty quickly.

[____________RedSonja]

Originally posted by Phelisha
i tell ya, UO is lookin better and better by the moment here.......

Yup, that would make sense.
You can now become a Grandmaster in 4-5 skills in a matter of 1-2 weeks.
I take it you enjoy the, how shall we put it, easier game?
Fire up Halflife or Counterstrike, there are plenty of "Optional Add-on's" that will enable you to be "ubber" and Rule.

[Ygglens]

Cz or Cosmik, would any of you please answer this question, it has been asked many times now... Will Mob HP be lowerd to the way it originaly was??

Yme

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by Cz

However, I have noticed a lot of people with a low posts count posting in this thread, which makes me happy, as it seems we have reached way more people than just the hardcore bulletin board crowd.
Cz

I only post in all seriousness. and abuse of OE is serious in my opinion. power to 14.2!!! (has done a search on Cz to locate any 'pertinate' updates since i both have to sleep AND work like 'normal' people) AO sickness has not set in fully yet

And another reason I don't postoften is because i'm too busy playing

[________LordHelmchen]

I apologise if this has already been said... this thread has grown faster than I could read it, so I gave up after page 13 :-)

Although getting an MP buffed bot sure is nice, I have mostly tried to work with a selfbuffed pet, so I think I can live with the change i general.
But there are two things i'd like to see changed with it (apart from balacing the mobs):
-make the bot go to /guard mode instead of /behind. This makes it much more 25% off than 100% off, so it should be a little more balancing compared to weapons. Bot is OE ? ok,so I cannot send him in to kill whomever I want. But I need to have some chance of surviving. whith guard mode, reds are still impossible (I have to take a hit before the bot joins the fight, and will probably take some more untill the bot gets aggro. But do I realy need to stand defensless to a green on my way out to get rebuffed / build a smaller bot ?
the second thing is: If you make bots unresponding in either way, _please_ let us repack them and remove that stupid UNIQUE flag from the shell.
"hmm... buffs wear out. let me build a new bot I can command then. no, wait, I have to get rid of this one... /pet terminate (it DOES still respond to this ?!?) ... well, there go all the credits i put into building it (for the nano, for buffs, for nano rechargers)"
I think you get my point :-)

sincerly,
LordHelmchen
Lvl 54 Engineer RK2

[Shadelore]

Well, I`m still missing any feedback on the question on balancing mobs as well as "balancing" players, would you please answer this question Cz,my apoligies if you have allrdy,but 1k posts is a bit long to browse,so maybe an own post for it.

[____________RedSonja]

Well here is my take on the two main changes listed for 14.2 for what they are worth

The IP reset sounds like a good idea, however I really cannot see why a "Free for all" is being created.
Surely the whole idea of the IP reset is to allow characters that have been 'nerfed' the ability to get back on track, not some way of totally changing a character over night.
I notice Map Navigation is not included as a skill you can reset and that is good, unless such a method could be found to remove the maps as the skill was lowered, too much programming required I think.
I also feel that ALL Driving skills should also be included as "Non refundable" skills.
You raise skills so that you can use a Kodiak, then you un-learn that skill once you get a Yalmaha, sorry, not keen on that idea.
I am also very confused as to why Implants, NCU's and Belts don't have to be removed also.
These area's have been very much subject to over-equipping, first with the massive Computer Lit buff's which are no longer available and then with the stationary treatment clinic "exploit".
These two area's should also be bought into line.
Which bring us onto the next massive change.

The OE issue.
Well, I've got to admit I'm on the side of "Yay, get that patch in now".
Some professions are going to be hit harder than others here.
Enforcers for example have great Blunt Weapon buff's that means they will be able to keep some quite high QL weapons equipped as long as they stay self-buffed, and I am sure they will.
I am sorry but the argument "If you don't OE then you are lazy and are not exploring the game as much as you should" does not wash.
From day 1 of this game I discovered OE in it's most basic form, buff your Str by 12 and use better armour, buff wears off and you can still wear it.
This actually annoyed the hell out of me, this didn't and still doesn't make sense.
If you were strong, strong enough to wear something and then a few minutes later you are not strong enough to wear it why no penalty?
I also feel the "Rather than stopping OE, allow other classes that currently cannot to do so" argument is not good either.
You don't further break something to fix a serious issue.
I've got a great way to reduce crime rates, lets make some of those crimes no longer against the law - you see it doesn't solve anything, but just looks better on paper.
The majority of people here will be able to adjust.
It isn't going to be difficult.
You've got a lot of credits and if the worst thing you have to do is find a lower QL weapon to use then it's hardly game stopping.
Alas we have people who feel that soloing a 100% mission full of reds is the norm and people should be able to do it all the time.
Why is this?
Is it only because up until the 14.2 patch you have been able to?
Reds should not be an easy kill, red indicates they are of a much higher level than yourself, so why should they be a walk over?
There are still a few problems with some mobs, I was killed recently by a green and once those few issues have been ironed out iot will be good.
A 50% mission will still be fine, you'll be able to get through that, but 75% & 100% missions shouldn't be the kind of thing you can do safely and easily by yourself.

People are not going to quit this game en-mass once this patch goes in.
I say once this patch goes in because it will, I'm pretty sure everybody here knows that.
Those that don't OE will not have a problem, the game will continue as it always has done.
Those that OE a little will still see the game as it always has been.
The majority of mass OE'ers will know this is a game, they will adjust how they play it and the game, more or less, will continue as it always has.
Yes some people will leave the game, no doubt about it, but what will their reasons be?
Suddenly AO isn't the "easy" game they signed up for?
"But it's not easy to get all those buffs at the same time so that I can OE a QL200 weapon onto a Level 70 character" - Yes it is, compared to playing the game without OE it certainly is.

The game has already suffered greatly since release day.
The credits exploits that has already destroyed the RK1 economy (It took 3 solid years to destroy the economy in UO, so this could be some kind of new record).
The dupe exploits that have allowed a very easy ride for a lot of players.
In the grand scale of things this patch is minor compared to all the other issues that AO has either had or still has.
Adjust or get out is the only real option.
Many if not most will adjust to these changes and carry on.
There will always be those that will complain about it and they will do until the bitter end - just don't.
If it annoys you that much then get out, the last thing we want over and over again is the shopping channel being flooded with "This last patch sux".

[Doctorkain]

Let's cut the crap here.

He's the simplest of solutions:

All items you have are checked for stats. If stats are not met, 0% effect, broken, not functioning. You want the item, you SPEND THE IP.

One stat of all will not be checked: Treatment on implants. This was intended. The actual required stat (agility, stam, int, etc) on the other hand WILL be checked. Treatment will of course be buffable by Omni-Med suit, +80 doc, +20 gen, and +100 treatment clinic, and other possible minor boosts such as Biomech back/head and Sugarfree Rum - Doctor.


This applies to all things, nanos, weapons, NCU, etc.


Debuffs will debuff skills but not disable items, PERIOD. No, you are NOT allowed to debuff their agil and watch all their implants fall off (and thus all equipment relying on said implants). Trader debuffs would be DEBUFFS TO SKILL, not insane nano and equipment-locking nanos. The loss of crit chance and overall damage, and increased fumble rate for nanos is ENOUGH. If a debuff ever moved a skill into a negative number (like a soldier's -4000 to all nanoskills from Mk sheild) at that point in time the items/nanos will lock from debuff. Nanoshutdown will still be nano shut down, but Unmakes and Divests will only be fumble increasers.

It's simple - you want the equipment, then you surrender an implant cluster spot or spend the IP. No more funny tricks or silly senseless processes designed to put on crap your profession can't possibly afford to use without temporary implants that you're going to take out.

And the mobs? No, whatever AC subtraction FunCom did wasn't enough - half mob HP or less as of right now. Maybe damage too for all I know.

Debuffs better not be counting here, because traders are get ENOUGH from their debuffs as is already. Nano users are not being allowed to cast nanos they have 80% of the skill to cast, so shape up and cut this over-equipping crap out already.

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by Phelisha
i tell ya, UO is lookin better and better by the moment here.......

I was a player and =A COUNSILOR= in UO up to pre-3rd dawn when i quit. (something like 2 months pre) I had been with it since my 2dollar beta enrolment fee. I was there when LB died in the fire wall, I was there when players got morphed into orcs and were killed in town and I was there when the blade spirits would always target the caster. (hated the last one, got called 100x or more for it).

I like AO better.

and btw. I can GM three characters in a week. UO is for arcade junkies ;p the ones with alot of quarters who leave broken.

AO looks better, playes better, has more options, can do more with the story has better support both in and out of game... If you mention UO again I'll go call my old freinds and tell them the new gimp they need to destory.

To return to topic.

No one has made a stink about the the proposed agent changes included in 14.2. Are they not known yet? No one is going to complain that they will have to train perception to spot sneaking agents? no one will complain that agents will be able to snipe/kill players -easily- now since they can be quasi-invis? GOOD. I'm an agent, i'll love it. All you need to do now is set it up so that concealment stays active when you zone. so i can sneak myself into tir. (or add a false alignment NF)

14.2 is not ONLY about OE. though its large enough to warrent this change (i endorce it completely!) there are other things happening. people should ask what those are so they are not caught off gaurd.

despet agent omni rk2

[Tjohei]

.....even I am a soldier... I feel that the 14.0 patch seems verry good. I know many soldiers equip better guns that they schould mange to use. The attack is still to low, so they gain almost nothing at all. But some do try to selfbuff them self so they can wear the gun they use. I did early go for "sens imp" and "psy mod", and now I get payed for that. Now the game become more natural. I can equipe my self any armor or gun I usualy use. Have almost been doing that the whole time in this game. Therefor I would not suffer in this patch, infact I think that I could gain something good for my first time in game on a patch..... So salute on that!!

Therefor u pet class and u other that have used hours on over-equping.... see u on an arena near u Now we talking...!

Aimabel - Soldier Rub2

[_______________Mimmi]

Im looking forward to this patch. About time the overequiping is being dealt with. I dont really care if I take a beating in the process, as long as its for the greater good of the game.

Mimmi - Mp (Rk2)

[________________Caol]

Originally posted by Lanasia
Let's cut the crap here.

He's the simplest of solutions:

All items you have are checked for stats. If stats are not met, 0% effect, broken, not functioning. You want the item, you SPEND THE IP.

One stat of all will not be checked: Treatment on implants. This was intended. The actual required stat (agility, stam, int, etc) on the other hand WILL be checked. Treatment will of course be buffable by Omni-Med suit, +80 doc, +20 gen, and +100 treatment clinic, and other possible minor boosts such as Biomech back/head and Sugarfree Rum - Doctor.


This applies to all things, nanos, weapons, NCU, etc.


Debuffs will debuff skills but not disable items, PERIOD. No, you are NOT allowed to debuff their agil and watch all their implants fall off (and thus all equipment relying on said implants). Trader debuffs would be DEBUFFS TO SKILL, not insane nano and equipment-locking nanos. The loss of crit chance and overall damage, and increased fumble rate for nanos is ENOUGH. If a debuff ever moved a skill into a negative number (like a soldier's -4000 to all nanoskills from Mk sheild) at that point in time the items/nanos will lock from debuff. Nanoshutdown will still be nano shut down, but Unmakes and Divests will only be fumble increasers.

It's simple - you want the equipment, then you surrender an implant cluster spot or spend the IP. No more funny tricks or silly senseless processes designed to put on crap your profession can't possibly afford to use without temporary implants that you're going to take out.

And the mobs? No, whatever AC subtraction FunCom did wasn't enough - half mob HP or less as of right now. Maybe damage too for all I know.

Debuffs better not be counting here, because traders are get ENOUGH from their debuffs as is already. Nano users are not being allowed to cast nanos they have 80% of the skill to cast, so shape up and cut this over-equipping crap out already.

I see by your post that you're a NT or MA. Am I correct? OPS, I am.

[_____________Jeek500]

The reason I played this game was because I could have a chance at PVP without a dsl conection, well now after 14.2 traders will rule everyone after a few ransacks and deprives that level 60 trader will be using a level 200 shotgun with full force while you level 60 whatever, the gun your using now dosent shot for even a double digit, and if you had a pet thats the end of that its just going to stand there. Ive read before that in anarchy you were supposed to beable to overequip, anyway this is why I like the game I can make my charecter special; put alot of thought and work into a charecter to make it better than others. Once this patch is out every soilder with a nova flow will be the same, the olny chalenge of the fight will be if you can guess when the other guy is gonna burst and see if you can MK before he does. This patch is taking away the thinking in specializing a char, its bringing trammel to AO. So what if the other guys weapon now is 100ql levels above yours , thats poor bastard spent millions on buying implants and implants and more implants and had to plan out wich ones would be more usefull and what order they would have to go in, spent a couple more million on getting buffs to get them in and buffs to get the weapons and armor on. The point is this person had to do alota work to get where they are and deserve their title, not to be taken away by a newb that gets lucky with a critiacal burst now. And you can forget fighting a trader now. If they want to make the game so simple just make a dimension like tramel where there is no PVP at all, and leave the Dimension 1&2 to the people who dont mind investing some time and thought into their charecters. Anyone that dosent at least have a Rookie title dosent ever deserve an opinnion on this patch, you dont know a real fight. I love fighting "twinks" I have to have a stradegy not just do an alpha and hope that it kills the guy, or hope I crit a couple more times than the other guy. As a Twink no 2 people ever end up the same This guy is focused on nanos to use a higer mongo and that guy is focused on weapon skills to do more damage and the otherguy uses a weapon that anyone else of the same profession wound dream of being proficent in. Even same clases as twinks can be very diffrent I made a very good NT with a hammer as an example and I did it by "twinking" the way things will be after 14.2 a NT with a hammer is a moron for wasting IP cause that hammer isnt going to do enough damage to be worth it. The olny reasonable souliton would be just to make seprate dimensions for the "Twinks" and the carebares. And dont tell me you like fighting and just not the twinking you can still have the arena in carebear land just not MMD or any zones lower than 75%. I know the plans for now are olny 25% but I guarentee IT wont stop there.


Barabadin

Ive killed you before.

[______________Desbet]

Originally posted by Rhayden


I see by your post that you're a NT or MA. Am I correct? OPS, I am.

I hate to sound insensitive but, I don't care.
I've played both NT and MA. You don't lose the programs/moves you used 1 lvl ago, if you deleted the move you're very very silly. Debuffs have -=always=- been in the game. and and reasoning player knows they need a backup incase that happens.

Use the lower ql move/NF you had 1 or 5lvls ago. and run. Like the rest of us.

Too many people -like- this patch. learn to deal.

/me has no sympathy.

sorry.

[________________Caol]

Cz, Please .. PLEASE reply to this. (No I have not read the whole thread.. My eyes were hurting after page 10)

Aight, according to Cz a 21% OE will decrease weapon damage by 25%. Wouldn't this DECREASE the dmg output so much that it would be better to do a 0% OE?

So equiping a better weapon would actually hit you so hard you would get less dmg than a perfect fit?

What about 19% OE? This would be the new pinnacle in optimal performance then. iow, giving you 100%+19% = 119% performance.

I'll write up a lil table.

19% OE = 100% + 19% = 119% w/ No penalty = 119% dmg

20% OE = 100% + 20% = 120% w/ 25% penalty = 95% dmg
39% OE = 100% + 39% = 139% w/ 25% penalty = 114% dmg

40% OE = 100% + 40% = 140% w/ 50% penalty = 90% dmg
59% OE = 100% + 59% = 159% w/ 50% penalty = 109% dmg

Ok, as you see from this table, the more you OE, the harder you get hit by each 25% decreas in dmg. (since the limit steps in 20% and the dmg caps steps in 25% each time.)

The new optimal OE would be 19% OE. So guess I would have to ditch my QL148 Vektor on my lvl30 Trader then and go for a exact 19% OE.

This would be kindah hard tho. Would I go for 19% OE without plunder/divest or would I go for a 19% OE with plunder/divest, thus making me less than optimal if resisted (resulting in a 20%++ OE)?

I remember a post by a guy who just got his QL199 or QL200 Vektor on, asking Cz if the damage he would get was -atleast- the same dmg as a gun that he could equip wihtout any buffs, thus sacrificing the 19% OE bonus by getting a new gun each lvl.

If I remember correctly, I think you, Cz, responded to his post saying that it was logical and that would be the propper way (or something like that).

Well, right now the winds have changed and if you OE 200%+ you'll be hit pretty hard...

Is this final? Is this how it's going to be?

Why not add a dynamic system? That would stop the 19% OE. It would stop the ruining of 132 wrangles (as I'd like to put on a weapon 30-40QL's better than I could unbuffed and not think about it for the next 30-40 lvl's). It would stop people from having to worry about the "19% with plunder/divest or without" issue etc.

As I see it now, this could be a step in the right direction for the whole of AO, -if- done properly. This solution is clearly not. Don't get me wrong, I still think that OE is fun, challanging and about the only aspect left I care about in this game, but I understand that most players do not invest the time to learn these things or have the money credits to do it in the first place. (yeah twinking costs, you greedy traders! )

Please tell me that this is not the final step in your OE fix. You could do so much better.