Over-equipping - here we go....

[___________x-genesis]

If OE is so bad to you that you are enforcing this formula for determining if you are indeed OE, I must ask you what WRANGLES were intended for. U DIDNT want us to wrangle a way to add higher ql weapons than we had skill for? Are you going to remove wrangling? I understand if someone is using an exploit, then of course they shouldnt be able to do it. Id hate to see lvl 10 players with ql 200 guns. But i mean its CRAZY sometimes working out just what buffs, implants etc etc one needs to equip an item and feels dern good when u finally get it in. But then to discover it is dropped in efficiency by 25% (or in the case of pets, when the buffs drop, utterly useless!!) is a slap in the face. Why would I bother? And let me say, this ends up being half the fun of AO. It IS a great deal of effort, but when it all works out its a major shot in the arm. You mean I should do the math first to see if Ill be penalised for operating within the rules anyway?? C'mon, if you don't want it equipped make it impossible. don't let me go to the effort only to discover it was wasted effort. One or the other. I didnt make the rules, you did. dont punish me when i obey them

[_____________metadox]

Why dont you just enlarge the time on nano's
For axample... Wrangle only takes 3 mins... how can a engineer use a pet for 3 mins?:P wrangles simply dont get used outside team anymore... bye bye allot of money for traders.....

if the wrangle whould be changed to a nice 30 mins people could use something.. instead of what it is now..
same for gift's and infuses.. make em last 1 hour so we can fight wthout a MP in the team..

or let pets just do 80-90% of the normal dmg.. (20% dmg debuff)

might sound better for all of us.. (Martial artist are gonna be best dmg dealers since they put their dmg output up since everyone whas twinked)

[locomdenom]

Originally posted by Uziel
I have a 108 soldier with a ql 200 nova and I should have that nova because I did not twink it whatsoever I used implants and buffs to equip it but now with this 14.2 patch coming out it will be reduced by over 20% and that is not fair at all and if I understood correctly we would only be able to equip 20 lvls above our current lvl which would decrease my effectivness as a damage dealer totally, this game has done some nice stuff but this new patch is going to lose alot of people

If your base skill, which includes all implants and running buffs, is within 20% of the required skill, you don't suffer.

Level, QL, etc., have nothing to do with it.

As an example, my RK2 fixer Dharin had a L36 Mausser at level 14. He would have suffered no penalties, however, as long as his SMG Expertise buff was running, because he would still have been within 20% of the required skillset.

Question answered. New one, that's been posed by many people - how are multi-requirement weapons handled? -25% for each failed requirement?

Also, something *will* have to be done about debuffs in PvP. Another 40% rule?

I still like my idea of a scale where OEing is gradually reduced, but where excessive OEing hurts you worse the further you go. I can see the problem with a QL121 rifle being worse than a QL120 - but I have no problem with a QL150 rifle being worse than the QL121. I still think the suggestion of -

Damage reduction = 2% reduction for every 1% you overequip beyond 15%. This would implement sufficient diminishing returns to pretty much eliminate twinking, without the rather severe stepping issues the current formula would face.

Bot classes have a legitimate gripe that they lose 100%, whereas we would only lose 25%. Make their pets less effective - don't make them completely ineffective, that's not fair.

I'm looking forward to this patch. I agree, it needs to be tested and thought about, but I am looking forward to it nonetheless.

Please do this right, FC. You do it right, a lot of past mistakes will be forgotten. Do it wrong, and you'll have big problems.

Finally - all the twinks who are going on about going to SWG and how everyone will - PLEASE go there. Deal with XxUberJedi9000000X for a while. Me, I hate the SW universe, hate the concept, and will be happy to see most of the 14-year-old twinks (note: not an insult to 14 year olds, just to 14 year olds who need to feel uber) go harass people in SWG.

Anyway, Cz, Cosmik - we're waiting. Please, please, don't keep us in the dark. What happened at your meeting?

[____________Phelisha]

maby im just being hasty about leaving....... this may not turn out half as bad as everyone thinks.......
if funcom is smart, then they will balance the classes soon.
meaning my engineer will lose the ability to have a good bot, but
the mobs are being reduced in damage and hp (greatly i hope)
to match what is happening.

for everyone that says, were just trying to do our best, and be our best...... well, i know how you are thinking right now, but just think about this for a sec.
the entire game basis is being reduced.
meaning its like saying that high dmg stuff dosent exist at the moment.
and you will still be the best out there, just that the best will be less then before.

i am fairly high leveled....... and if i play my cards right then i can be lvl 100 by the time this patch comes out, so i get to keep the warbot.
i will also just have to find a MP friend to stay with me on my hunts alot.
and always need to keep some NCU free.

now the only thing i disliek about this is how the engineer dosent have to much goin for him/her.

we only get our armor spells.(and beacon warp)
o.... whats this you say? slayer droid transference? o yea. great spell........ you look like a slayer droid and hit like a little girl.


all of our other buffs and stuff take skills that are dark blue to us.
maby something to fix this would be to change those colors to maby a lighter blue atleast, in an attempt to allow the engineer to utilize everything, to re-balance it.
(make MA skill light blue before anything so that slayer-droid transference is of use)

[______________Xandru]

IF what Funcom intends to do in this patch is bring balance then they are gravely mistaken.

1. Twinks are gonna have higher QL implants so they will have higher skills therefore will have higher QL weapons without the penalty of OE.

2. Joe "CasualPlayer" Schmoe will be hurt more due to the fact that his imps arent QL 70 at lvl 10.

3. Twinks are gonna have more NCU therefore can roll around with high lvl buffs so his weapons are again in OE standards.

4 Joe "CasualPlayer" Schmoe extremely lower QL NCU therefore cannot run buffs and uses lower QL equipment to stay inside OE guidelines.

Most higher lvl buffs last between 30 mins to an hour and fifteen mins. I can run 2 successful missions in 30 mins inside the OE guideline. Casual players not having higher NCU/Implants will suffer more. I do not believe this patch has been well thought out and maybe should be approached from a diffrent view.

Currently atm my main char is an MA. Without over equipping Armor I wouldnt last 30 secs in a mission. we have low hps, no buffs to raise that, so AC is what I must go by.

I am however looking forward to the new MA damage types mentioned in the next patch.

[Painsmaiden]

I keep seeing people saying that mob hp and ac are being lowered to compenstate for these changes. I say to you people that this IS NOT HAPPENING.

Quote
-------------------------------
The package:

This will affect some professions more than others. When we first talked about this, we promised that we would change several things to make life easier for you. This we have done, and will do. I have prepared this list so that you will see the entire picture:

IP Re-Allocation. (IPR)

IPR will now become an active part of the game. (Scheduled for 14.2) You will get IP Re-Allocation points. These you can use to reset a skill, (point and click) and get the IP back. You can select whichever skill or ability you like - except Map-Navigation.

You cannot wear anything - no implants, no armour, no NCUs - nothing - when you use the IPR.

You will get a temporary 90 IPR points! This way you can change your WHOLE character - all skills. This will be available for a limited period only! (More on this in the patch message.)

You will also get IPR points every time you gain a new title level. These points will be there until you use them, and will be added when the limited time with the 90 points ends.

They will be backwards compatible, in the sense that if you are level 200 you will get ALL points from all previous title levels.

Reduced AC on humanoid monsters with 60%. (13.8)

Increased effect of Sneak mode, indoors and outdoors. (scheduled for 14.2)

Now "grey" monsters should be very much easier to sneak by than "deep red" ones.

True Invisibility for Sneaking against other players. (scheduled for 14.2)

If you succeed in a sneak check against other players, you will be invisible.

Of course you can still be detected using a Perception check.

Changed Perception pattern of monsters outdoors.

Monsters won't search as big an area for players as they do today. This means there is a greater chance that you will be able to run past, or sneak past, monsters outdoors. This should make travel a lot easier.

I would also just like to mention that this patch (scheduled for 14.2) has some new additions to the Agent profession, including new nanos and items. It is too early to list them here, although they perhaps should have been.
--------------------------
End Quote


I don't know where you people are getting the idea that mobs are getting easier. It is going to be easier to AVOID them to a certain extent, but it will be HARDER to kill them now. The only thing mentioned is a drop in Human mobs AC which already happened in v13.8. All of you folks thinking that a change in mob difficulty is coming with this are going to be rudely surprised when they are the same ass they have always been.

This whole thing really makes me really angry. I played the game from 2 weeks after release until I became a victim of 12.6 symndrome. I just came back recently since it *seemed* to be better. I fell in love with the game all over again. Now they are changing everything around and screwing up what everone has done in the game so far. I may quit again, who knows? The writhing mass of bugs is still around and annoys me daily. Anyway.

I say to all you who blindly support this change. I hope you like it when it comes. You may think it looks good, but I seriously doubt you will like it when it actually comes. The only good thing I can see is the IP reset. That's it.

[____________Phelisha]

if they dont lower the hp and ac of mobs then the game will be so un-balanced that it will be RUINED!!!!!!!!

[Cotharin]

Well I guess I have to ask the question of how much things change after level 50. Do Mobs become so ungodly unmanageable that you can't do a mission with anything over a yellow? Do they gain some magic power that prevents you from using any of your abilities?

I mean seriously unless this is the case, come on guys. I'm yet to have a character that high, but I'm also yet to see why this will affect much. It simply will disallow people from using things that the game should never have been designed to allow.

This just means that once I get to level 130 with my MP that maybe my character won't be dead. There will actually be a point to try to get to level 200, simply so I can use my extremely good items/pets. In all honesty there should be ZERO buffs of any type. This would negate this entire problem. You simply could never use something that is about your current skill level. Sounds fair to me.

[____________Phelisha]

actually to answer yer question, yea, after about 60 they get reduclious

[___________Bimbo2000]

Those IPR points,if i am a lvl 12 enforcer,will i gain ipr points for all my levels,or just next time i level..

12x90=1008
Will i get 1008 IPR After the patch?

[_____________Hextorr]

you get 90 temporary points, each point can reset one skill, this is enough to reset all your skills. After a certain periode this points willvanish, this is a one time only thing.

Your character gains IPR points each time he reaches a title lvl lvl 15; lvl 50; lvl 100; lvl 150; lvl 190; lvl 200. This points are retroactive, meaning if you have a character lvl 200 right now, you will get the ipr points for all the title lvls.

So you dont get IPR points each time you lvl, only at the title change lvl. I have no idea how many IPR points you get at each title change.

[___________Boogiebum]

Originally posted by Thaima
Those IPR points,if i am a lvl 12 enforcer,will i gain ipr points for all my levels,or just next time i level..

12x90=1008
Will i get 1008 IPR After the patch?

No you won't get 1008 IPR.
You'll get 90 points to start with, and they'll dissapear after some time. Next time you'll get new IPR point is when you reach a new title lvl, and your next title lvl is 15. How many new points you'll get I don't know but that's how it works.


About the OE patch.
I think it's basically a good idea but PLEASE FC you HAVE to think this through more then once or twice! I you let this patch go live in 14.2 then I know there'll be ALOT of players that will quit. I might be one of them. I love this game but please don't destroy it!
Atleast think it through a while longer. There are so many things you need to change if you let this patch go live. It won't be enough just say "Okay guys this patch goes live now and this and that will happen". I think all that needs to be said already have been said in previous posts but don't be a bunch of retards and ignore them because they are good posts with good views from all different angles and professions.

--------------------Agents WILL rule the world!-------------------------

**Someday**

[____________Xeraseus]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon
Traders will be the most powerful prof in PvP, they only debuff everyone so everyone do 25% less damage and the pets are useless for the whole time, have you thought about this FC?

That already happens. If i divest and plunder a soldier. his damage will go from, say 150 a shot to 40 a shot. I don't know where people get that attack rating doesnt matter either. If I don't keep divest and plunder running in missions, my damage is cut in half. Attack rating DOES matter, even now. If I walk up and shoot a leet with no divest or plunder, I'll crit for 1700-1800. If I have my highest divest and plunder on, I'll crit for 2200-2300. That's with the same exact gun, ql152 home defender.

Xeraseus

-a trader who supports the hacking of our money machine in favor of doing away with the mega over equippers.

[_______________Slick]

You'll have to forgive my ignorance, I'm relatively new at this. Anyway...

So suppose I'm a level 35 trader fighting against a level 35 human NPC wielding a rifle. Being a Trader, I throw a Deprive Skills of some sort at him.

Questions:

1. Since he's a human just like me, he's wielding a weapon that's within 20% of his level, right?

2. Since I'm clan and he's Omni, he's wielding some weapon generally available to Omni, right?

3. Since he's a human just like me, he has the same amount of IP to spend as I did, right? So there are maximums (that I can figure out) to what his skills can be, right?

4. So if I debuff him enough, he might fall below the 20% threshold, at which point his weapon should start doing 25% less damage, right?

5. Will there even be any code written to apply these new rules to the MOBs? If not, why not?

Thanks.

--Slick

[____________Xeraseus]

ransack never has lowered skills of NPC's. It just raises yours. You can drop an NPC's skills 200 each and they will still sit there and do the exact same damage.

Xeraseus

[_______________Slick]

Originally posted by Xiauzon
ransack never has lowered skills of NPC's. It just raises yours. You can drop an NPC's skills 200 each and they will still sit there and do the exact same damage.

Xeraseus

Thank you. That sounds...well...stupid. I think I'll go play my MA now.

Do the damage reduction spells of MP's and Doc's at least work on MOBs?

Thanks.

--Slick

[___________killahsin]

everyone is screamign wrangle wrangle wrangle, but avoiding the facts. It is not the wrangle which leads to massive over equiping. one single wrangle is not what allows a charcter at level 60 to don ql 200 ac and weapons. It's over equiping. multiple means of stackign implants to get this stuff on. 10 or 15 high level buffs etc etc.

Everyone swears everyone else can do it. this is not true. Certain professions can do this with their main abilities. Other professions cannot overequip their main attributes. For instance A doc cannot 'overequip' their heals. A NT cannot overequip their nanos. A MA cannot overequip their fists. Sure its easy enough to get a shotgun for all 3 of those professions and overequip it along with armor. Yet again we are discussing main attributes.

Overequiping because you know how leads to a major boredom factor in this game. Resulting in intelligent players having 3 sets of ac and 3 different weapons in their whole career(level 1-200).You can easily say 'its your choice' but in the end game it is not. As the player base grows and more secondary charcters are created. You will either have to overequip to survive or you will die, Simply put. If everyone finds out they can drive a porsche as easily as driving a pinto. Everyone will go for the porsche. This dumbs down the validity of introducing high level weapons and ac. Because level 60s will be able to use it and dominate their level fields.

You can argue points all day but they are moot. What a majority here are trying to do is whine their way out of having a better game in the long run. If funcom backs out of this fix. It is all your faults. Weapons as they are now are rediculous. Funcom knows all of this. it saddens me seriously to see it has come down to this. An actual GOOD change and everyone and their mother comes here to complain about it. Somthing that will add DEPTH to the game. Yet you all complain about it because you wont be able to solo 200 missions at 120. Or kill those level 80 people at level 60 blah blah blah. "Thats what makes this game special." No what i am noticing here of what makes this game special is the depth, of normal play. You see so many different things, yet find out most of the weapons are worthless, because u can just squeeze into that ql 200 set of everything and your done. at level 60. Never again having to change anything. If you call that right or fair or fun your rediculous. Right now with an intelligent player there is NO DEPTH. None whatsoever.

Stop trying to save your twinks, and let Funcom fix this game.

[___________killahsin]

"if they dont lower the hp and ac of mobs then the game will be so un-balanced that it will be RUINED!!!!!!!!"

again another person who ignored the original post about over-equiping. Why were mobs hp and ac raised in the first place Phelisha?

[___________killahsin]

painsmaiden did you read the first article on over-equiping? this is but a followup. Ac was reduced in 13.8 hp will be reduced as well. You may not see it there but FC will change it as well if it effects us drastically. Read the first article on this subject and you will see whwy people say this.

"Ok, this is a follow-up article on over-equipping changes and how they may affect you. I am not doing this to repeat myself"

notice the words follow-up^

[____________Phelisha]

Originally posted by Painsmaiden
I keep seeing people saying that mob hp and ac are being lowered to compenstate for these changes. I say to you people that this IS NOT HAPPENING.

Quote
-------------------------------
The package:

This will affect some professions more than others. When we first talked about this, we promised that we would change several things to make life easier for you. This we have done, and will do. I have prepared this list so that you will see the entire picture:

IP Re-Allocation. (IPR)

IPR will now become an active part of the game. (Scheduled for 14.2) You will get IP Re-Allocation points. These you can use to reset a skill, (point and click) and get the IP back. You can select whichever skill or ability you like - except Map-Navigation.

You cannot wear anything - no implants, no armour, no NCUs - nothing - when you use the IPR.

You will get a temporary 90 IPR points! This way you can change your WHOLE character - all skills. This will be available for a limited period only! (More on this in the patch message.)

You will also get IPR points every time you gain a new title level. These points will be there until you use them, and will be added when the limited time with the 90 points ends.

They will be backwards compatible, in the sense that if you are level 200 you will get ALL points from all previous title levels.

Reduced AC on humanoid monsters with 60%. (13.8)

Increased effect of Sneak mode, indoors and outdoors. (scheduled for 14.2)

Now "grey" monsters should be very much easier to sneak by than "deep red" ones.

True Invisibility for Sneaking against other players. (scheduled for 14.2)

If you succeed in a sneak check against other players, you will be invisible.

Of course you can still be detected using a Perception check.

Changed Perception pattern of monsters outdoors.

Monsters won't search as big an area for players as they do today. This means there is a greater chance that you will be able to run past, or sneak past, monsters outdoors. This should make travel a lot easier.

I would also just like to mention that this patch (scheduled for 14.2) has some new additions to the Agent profession, including new nanos and items. It is too early to list them here, although they perhaps should have been.
--------------------------
End Quote


I don't know where you people are getting the idea that mobs are getting easier. It is going to be easier to AVOID them to a certain extent, but it will be HARDER to kill them now. The only thing mentioned is a drop in Human mobs AC which already happened in v13.8. All of you folks thinking that a change in mob difficulty is coming with this are going to be rudely surprised when they are the same ass they have always been.

This whole thing really makes me really angry. I played the game from 2 weeks after release until I became a victim of 12.6 symndrome. I just came back recently since it *seemed* to be better. I fell in love with the game all over again. Now they are changing everything around and screwing up what everone has done in the game so far. I may quit again, who knows? The writhing mass of bugs is still around and annoys me daily. Anyway.

I say to all you who blindly support this change. I hope you like it when it comes. You may think it looks good, but I seriously doubt you will like it when it actually comes. The only good thing I can see is the IP reset. That's it.

BUT, this guy here said otherwise, thats why i said that.