Doh! You suck. I was bashing an Engineer whiner in another post.Originally posted by MiKEBoND
1000th!
Doh! You suck. I was bashing an Engineer whiner in another post.Originally posted by MiKEBoND
1000th!
Attack rating is checked versus evades to see if you get a guaranteed hit.
Irregardless of the over-equipping extent one goes to, it is at least 50% easier to raise attack rating than your evades. At about level 80-100 you see attack vs. defense disparities commonly in the 300-600 natural skill point range.
It is next to IMPOSSIBLE to get your evades to the point where a MOB actually MISSES you. This is a symptom of FunComs incredible horror at the thought of a player who cannot be damaged. This is similar to the MOB's minimum damage always being equal to their level.
Using evasive skills to survive is ONLY viable for a Fixer with Grid Armor and maxed implants and full expenditure in those skills. Sorry for them that this route often leaves them deficient in other areas. But, that's another discussion. Suffice it to say you will ALWAYS get hit by a MOB (or especially a player) of close to your level.
The next factor is how badly you get hit. This is where evades can make a difference. Since you are now automatically getting hit, the big check is to see if you are critically hit or not. Your evades are again checked against attack rating and an unknown formula is added to a base 3% chance to crit. A massive debuff to ATK will NOT stop things from hitting you or vice-versa. However, a massive decrease in ATK WILL narrow the gap to where you get crit'd much less often.
The other big benefit to a massive attack skill debuff is that the actual (1+ATK/400) used to calculate base damage dealt actually has some appreciable affect on how hard you hit/get hit. (as an aside please note how much more important ATK would be if that number were 200 instead of 400).
But any of this intelligent discussion of the importance of attack rating goes down the toilet when we get ARBITRARY brick walls tossed at us on a whim.
Please address over-equipping. But, put in your Intelligence implants and do it right. We want rubber walls not brick walls. We always want there to be one more thing we can do to get one more tenth of a percentage point of damage dealt.
To make a better gun worse is simply wrong. You placed too much emphasis on Qlvls and not enough on attack rating. This is absolutely, 100% the reason you have this potential threat to your company's future in your hands.
First step at addressing over-equipping would be as simple as cutting damage for all weapons straight in half for those designed to be equipped by someone with a 400 ATK and changing that 400 in the formula to a 200.
Cut the damage to one-third for weapons expected to be wielded by someone with an 800 attack rating and quarter the damage for those expected to be yielded by someone with a 1200 attack rating.
If you have the 'appropriate' skills you will see no change. If you are drastically over-equipped, you will see a massive damage decrease. Buffs and debuffs will mean something during combat.
This is a much more elegent first step that involves a simple database query and a change to a constant in the damage code. Nothing else needs to be changed. Nothing. Not the to-hit calculation. Not the crit-chance calculation. Nothing.
We've already seen how a lvl100 with a lvl200 gun does about 1/2 the damage. I hope some of the less educated read that post and it sunk in. I propose amplifying the existing penalties for not having enough skill to wield a weapon, while keeping the better quality items better.
But, hey that makes sense.
Heh, 666th, and then 1000th, and the funny thing is I wasnt camping for them. Hell I just got up and went to see what we were up to, and it was 665, and 999 respectively
Don't be lonely anymore.
Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.
mt 2 creds
Someone said you should only have 5 IPR poins instead of 90, or the person could totally reset their character.
Well... after the patch, a lot of people will be scre-- er... A little dissapointed, and will need to reset their character.
Also... Traders seem screwed now. Maybe I am missing something, but the game was hard before, and now we don't get the good weapons?
No weapon to solo + No wrangle income = No Trader money
My Idea:
Maybe there should be a trader nano that lowers the OE penalty, like an aura. Then people would want traders in their group. The higher the QL of the nano, the less penalty received. At least then we traders could do somethign other than sit on out bums outside missions healing themselves so they can go back in and get killed by a gray.
Well, I guess I will go level my MA, maybe he won't be hit so hard by the patch.
Cross into the blue.
i wonder if this is the larget thread ever on this mesage board.
Most important thread, in my eyes. The game just got harder for everyone, just because someone didn't like getting beat in PvP...Originally posted by lichoon
i wonder if this is the larget thread ever on this mesage board.
...PvP...
Maybe there should only be the penalty in PvP zones? Who knows...
Cross into the blue.
I read almost all the posts. Didn't read through all the postings starting with: "but now my lvl XX *insert profession here* will be nerfed AGAIN!"
My god, don't you super-twinkers get it? A ql 200 rifle is not supposed to be available at low lvl's. And what the h*** is the point in playing through 200 lvl's when all you have to show for it equipment-wise is that your equipment is no longer OE'd?
What is the point then?`
To me, the OE-part of the patch looks like it will actually increase the longevity of the gaming experience. By which I mean that there will be more to look forward to as you advance through lvl's and increase your abilities.
Good work FC, keep up the good work.
Kind regards
Lvl 56 NT, selfbuffed( that's right +20skills/+12abilities )
I solo 50% missions!!!
One last thing: This is my second posting here. To all you people who have been posting for ages, and seem to think that you are the omnipotent gods of AO-forums:
1. I am a player, I have a right to make my opinion known in this forum.
2. I have played 100 lvl's all together with different char's. I know what I am talking about.
3. It's all about my experience subjectively.
4. I have yet to see ANY objectively motivated comments in these forums. It's all about "I got this" or "I didn't get that", sounds like four-year olds.
5. PLZ don't give me any crap about how you are better suited to discuss game mechanics just because you have three lvl 150+ char's. It doesn't take that much time to get a feel for the game.
6. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POSTING.
I completely agree with Iceman. Well said.
These are the moments we'll remember for the rest of our restless lives.
Perfect point Iceman but good luck getting it across to these morons, I am a verteran and I am all for this OE change. Unfortunately most of the numbskulls in this forum would like to be a lvl 200 character at lvl 60... why? hell if I know. This game needs some sort of balace. PERIOD. Some trader said earlier "I have had a 130 vektor since lvl 52 and in need of upgrading. " This is EXACTLY the kind of crap that shouldnt be happeneing! A lvl 52 guy attacking at the equivelent of someone twice his lvl its insane. Not to mention Ive had it up to here with these damn traders complaining about this and that when they have the CHEAPEST class in the whole game. Aww they wont be able to charge 400k for a damn wrangle too bad make money like the rest of us and quit crying, your a "Trader" right? how bout you peple try making money by trading? Im glad this OE nurf is happening, good job FC keep up the good work.Originally posted by Iceman
My god, don't you super-twinkers get it? A ql 200 rifle is not supposed to be available at low lvl's. And what the h*** is the point in playing through 200 lvl's when all you have to show for it equipment-wise is that your equipment is no longer OE'd?
You know what the problem is with this game, and every game like it it's the perdictability of what's going to happen when such and such an ability is raised to a given amount. so my solution, take all the numbers out of the game, leave them in the background, don't change anything else, just take the numbers out.
If people know that they need 386 or something like that to equip a new shotgun, they are going to do everything in their power to get that 386 so they can equip it. sure this is a game and all, but make things a little more realistic, espeicaly with skills. I mean I don't know that I can lift 300lbs until I go out and try and lift 300lbs. I don't know that I have the mental skill to try and figure out E=MC^2 until I try. sure numbers give us a generalization of how we are progrssing and we like to see progress, but the same can be done with a status bar. When you see a status bar sliding accross the screen you know that progress is being made, you don't know exactly how much, but you can make a good generalization
If FC were to all of a sudden make the numbers dissappear out of the game, it would be alot more interesting, and sure there would be alot more trial and error and people try to find out what is needed to use what, but by doing this FC has complete control over what is going on behind the scenes, like with the damage calculations and things like that, then we the users don't have to worry about it when something is serously changed
Sure this is a threat about over equipping and suggestions and comments on it, but and yes I will admit that it is a problem to an extent, but it is also needed to an extent, sure a trader with this new patch can completely dominate PvP because all they have to do is use Ransack and deprive skills, and at high enough levels those formulas can easily put a person way beyond the 20% grey area
But at the same time, people need to be abel to OE unless serious changes are made to mob AI, HP, NP and just about everything else, unless those changes are made, FC is going to have another repeat of 12.6 where fighting mobs of any kind would be a problem, unless they were grey
So to summerize things:
- Traders will be a dominant profession in PvP after the patch
- Over equipping is an issue that does need to be addressed especialy at lower levels
- the OE issue shouldn't be even touched unless there is something done about the mobs
And just one thing that I would like to add is I hope that it is planned that eventualy mobs will suffer the same penalties that we do when say Deprive skills or Ransack skills is cast on them or other such debuffs
Um. this whole subject is like an ugly re-run. overequiping has already been nerfed once like 6 months ago..yaknow back in the day you couldnt keep the servers running.
welp servers are up..bravo.. loaded with bugs still but runnin at least.
Perhaps you should have "FIXED" it properly the 1st time.
know what..instead of doin this..all the manhours and energy..
FIX the npc that continue too fight me dead.......
FIX the blurry mission doors that wont let me pass threw them
FIX the constant fall dammage that kills me when i turn off my plane
FIX the menu buttons that unshade ready for action when really there NOT (burst,full auto,fling such)
FIX the classes that cant solo a mission from the "solo mission booth"
OHHHH and thanks for the MAP OF MORT.... but i have plenty now
Relic
*LOL*Originally posted by Relic
OHHHH and thanks for the MAP OF MORT.... but i have plenty now
Relic
Not that this needs it, but *bump* to that last line! *LOL* I must have found more than 75 in the last few weeks of missions.
--Tsk
220 Eternalist (setup)
216 Lich (setup)
208 Kingpin
206 Techno Arch-Wizard (setup)
200 Legend (setup)
[ Synergy Factor ]
Rest In Peace, Beardedone 12.25.04
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ENF*Isarugi
[B]
Some trader said earlier "I have had a 130 vektor since lvl 52 and in need of upgrading. " This is EXACTLY the kind of crap that shouldnt be happeneing! A lvl 52 guy attacking at the equivelent of someone twice his lvl its insane. Not to mention Ive had it up to here with these damn traders complaining about this and that when they have the CHEAPEST class in the whole game. Aww they wont be able to charge 400k for a damn wrangle too bad make money like the rest of us and quit crying, your a "Trader" right? how bout you peple try making money by trading?
Yes, Traders are very easy to overequip. But Enforcers and Soldiers are easy to over armor. Agents are easy to overequip. MP's make money faster than anyone else. Its all in your choice of professions. I didn;'t realize it was "cheaP" to buy weapons and armor and NCU's 30, 40, 80 QL's above your own. I dont charge for wrangles unless i need the money. I only charge for wrangles when i have taken the time to get masteries and mochams and have devoted timeto standing around and advertising. Usually i give them free. And what i do trade (glasses, clothing, information) i do very well off of. Dont be mad because people are spending time and effort on making their characters better. I completely agree with what funcom is planning in this patch. But i will make the point that the ones that devote themselves to twinking their characters will continue to do so. After all, its just a little algebra and a lot of time.
These are the breaks when the OE adjustments come in at. 20% OE is actually quite alot at higher levels. I think FC made the right call.
Code:Current Overequip Skill 20% 40% 60% 80% Damage Reduction 100% 75% 50% 25% 50 63 83 125 250 100 125 167 250 500 150 188 250 375 750 200 250 333 500 1000 250 313 417 625 1250 300 375 500 750 1500 350 438 583 875 1750 400 500 667 1000 2000 450 563 750 1125 2250 500 625 833 1250 2500 550 688 917 1375 2750 600 750 1000 1500 3000 650 813 1083 1625 3250 700 875 1167 1750 3500 750 938 1250 1875 3750 800 1000 1333 2000 4000 850 1063 1417 2125 4250 900 1125 1500 2250 4500 950 1188 1583 2375 4750 1000 1250 1667 2500 5000
Ye Olde and Original Founding is BACK !
Australian Timezone - RK1
Well I've only been playing for 3 weeks now, so I can't say I have the most large voice in the matter. However I have made a few different characters, and have a couple things that I would like to see with the change:
PROFESSIONS:
MP's - I have a lvl41 MP. So far this patch won't affect me in the least. I don't run around with people casting monsterous buffs on me so I can cast a better attack pet. Heck, I can't even figure out how I have seen people run with such high level pets all the time. I personally feel there should be no need. If you can solo a mission over 50% without many issues, then you are cheating. Lets be honest here, pet classes have an advantage in that they themselves can stand back and not ever get hit. If they come after you, yes you have less AC and less HP, but who cares, play a less difficulty level if you can't handle dying every once in a while.
Engineers - Exact same situation. Furthermore, I have an engineer. Guess what I have access to all sorts of AC based buffs (which I don't have with my MP). Furthermore, I get to carry around 2 big pistols with burst/fling special attacks. Guess what I get to carry with my MP, a shield doing 2-5 damage, or a staff that is incredibly slow and rarely hits.
Nano-techs - I also have one of these. They will probably be the least affected by this. Great, I welcome it. Only downside to this I can no longer send my friend to tank with his +50ql Nova flow he is carrying in to do the most damage.
OVERALL:
Here are my gereral comments:
1. BRING IT ON. Thank god, I can finally get asked to help on a mission again. I spend 90% of my time soloing with my MP, because I have a bunch of friends who tank around with incredibly high NOVA's (soldiers) and rifle's (agents). Guess what now they actually have to wait for my pet that jus got stuck trying to heal them as they ran around that table to fast.
2. What in the world is all this talk about how it will hurt the average player. It won't in the least. I AM and average player. Guess what, it won't do anything but make me play the game fairly. Don't try to deny you are exploiting the game by using a weapon far more advanced than you would be able to use at a higher level. This it the first game I've EVER heard of that even allows this. I think its hilarious that 90% of these posts are from people that just mad because they won't be able to use the gun they paid some guy $4 million credits for.
3. I really hope they implement some type of auto calculation feature. ESPECIALLY in the store fronts. For example when I enter a shop now in my car. My car will dissapear and become red inside my inventory. Something like that would be FANTASTIC in the stores. If it could read my skills and see if I am able to use the item within a 20% variance, make it have a yellow tint over it. If its above that, make it a red tint. I'm not sure how hard this would be to do in a quick manner, but it would greatly speed up the calculations.
4. Pets and attacking situations. I know its been said before that pets will not quit until the fight is over. However do they mean that they will attack 2-3+ mobs if need be? If you get ganged will they continue to help you until it is clear, at which point you can rebuff? Please correct me if I missed this part of the answer. I didn't feel like reading the last 29 pages of this thread.
5. ALL this will do is make the game a little more fair for every class. It will also force people to team up more. Which I think is a great way to play, I can't think of a single time I would rather go solo than have a buddy with me.
6. I can't wait for the IP rollover. I personally have screwed up my MP something feirce (seeing it was my first character). I would love to get some IP back and put it someplace that I can actually use it.
Just my 2¢ Feel free to flame.
Nvr
Oh and I think OE changes should be made to NCU's, keep those Complit Implants in, raise your complit or lose the extra NCU's.
And if your debuffed to the point of losing your NCU's, allow current buffs to stay and just don't let anybody cast new ones on you. Complit debuffs are only going to last a few mins.
Last edited by Founding; Mar 13th, 2002 at 05:17:22.
Ye Olde and Original Founding is BACK !
Australian Timezone - RK1
well I will make this short and simple, everyone out there that is mad about overequipping basically does not know how to overequip so they flame everyone else for doing it. If you all really knew how hard it can be in some cases to make your character uber not to mention expensive!! you might just change your mind and give some credit where credit is due, people that twink put alot of hard work into there chars to make them the best they can be. alot of my old friends from way back have already quit the game and when patch 14.2 comes out I also will be gone along with many others I guarantee it
(if I read guates article correct here is an example)
I have a 108 soldier with a ql 200 nova and I should have that nova because I did not twink it whatsoever I used implants and buffs to equip it but now with this 14.2 patch coming out it will be reduced by over 20% and that is not fair at all and if I understood correctly we would only be able to equip 20 lvls above our current lvl which would decrease my effectivness as a damage dealer totally, this game has done some nice stuff but this new patch is going to lose alot of people
Last edited by Uziel; Mar 13th, 2002 at 05:26:13.
I will never be able to use them ql 200 ncu's then even when i'm lvl 200... bad ideaOriginally posted by Falcon
Oh and I think OE changes should be made to NCU's, keep those Complit Implants in, raise your complit or lose the extra NCU's.
And if your debuffed to the point of losing your NCU's, allow current buffs to stay and just don't let anybody cast new ones on you. Complit debuffs are only going to last a few mins.
LoL. To the Whining Engineers. Iam a level 121 engineer. I for one think it is unfair that we can solo 180 missions with our lvl 200 bot at level 110. BUT, IMO It isn't fair that the MP's will be able to get demons at low levels to do to being able to buff themself by, 140+20+Intel Boost+Nalebs + High Impants = a lot of damn OE. BUT. For any Engineer out there, Find a Buddy MP to play with. After 14.2 i can team with my lvl 104 MP friend...
If they nerf this it will be the dumbest thing but for engineers all you gotta do is get Wrangled into your pet and moochamed whatever. Then go with your MP friend and have him keep infuse on you. At level 121 I can get roughly 685/685 MC/TS on my own. To buff to my qlvl 200 slayer i only then need 190 + to ts/mc. That is over the 20% limit so i can't control the slayer when moochams wears off. Ill be back down to 685/685. But if you have a MP friend with you he can just cast Infuse or Masteries even to keep you in the 20% margin. Plane and simple.
685+50=735
735x .2 = 147
147+735=882
So there you go. Plenty of IP to spare for the 20% OE.
Unless that is totally wrong then shoot me. Its just a suggestion. Mp's and Engs are still going to be the best classes to go together. Which seems fair. Many may say "Oh you can solo way higher then us" But in reality its slower and more risky. Sure i can solo the 180 mission but hey... i get in, get 2 mil xp and die and have to start all over again? LoL. I could get 2 mil from 130 missions in the same time. Stop whining, just look for better ways to keep your bots. BTW the self cast is NOT as bad as you think. My self cast with my mp friend was plenty to solo a 154 mission. Not really that must slower etiher since slayers are stupid and forget commands ne ways... Sometims my slayer gets hit 8 times before it realizes hey... the enemy isn't dead yet.
Those complaining about OE have a faulty mindset.
OE and PvP......if a twinked character kills you in PvP, then go twink yourself if PvP is your goal. The same legal, in-game buffs, implants, etc. that allows one person to OE apply to all EQUALLY. Everyone started with ONE low level character. If they choose to to twink later characters, thats an option open to anyone that has the means to do so. If you dont have the means, work at it. Go get good stuff. Make friends that can buff. Do what you have to do. Don't whine about the advantage others have ...and have FC drag everyone down. Go out and achieve something instead of taking away the achievements of others.
OE and PvE......if someone is soloing a 90% mission, they're not taking away anything from anyone else. That supertwinked so-and-so isn't taking YOUR mission away from you. His mission is his and only his. This isn't EQ where everyone is fighting over the same dozen spawns in the same dozen dungeons. Anyone that has a problem with what another player is doing on solo missions spends too much time worrying about what others do and not enough working on their own characters.
I know this point has been brought up before in this thread, but I'll say it again: This patch will only widen the gap between the haves and have-nots, not decrease it. For those of you that can't meet the 20% requirement on really good gear, its gonna be that much tougher for you to get to the level where you can have it. For those that already have it, well...I guess this patch is pretty laughable ( except of course, pvp'ing and NPC debuffs...though the NPC debuffs aren;t used nearly as intelligently as debuffs from good players ). From casual observation, it seems that those people against this patch are higher levels and seem to be arguing this as a point of principle, not because its gonna hurt them. Those that are in favor seem to lean heavily towards the under lvl 100 crowd....well, you better hope that FC makes the mobs a little easier too. Missions over lvl 100 have some hella mobs.
I think this patch has good intentions, but you know the saying about the road to hell being paved with..........
BTW....
....I'm an engineer that can keep his q200 Slayer because I can self buff well into the 20% requirement, so I'm not screaming NERF because this patch screws me. I'm not threatening to quit because I will still be ( as a previous poster called it ), "The guy with the Tank-bot".
All of you that have been wishing ill on those of us that legally equipped very high level gear and bots...be careful what you wish for. This patch is only gonna hurt you.
Halbundy
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