Over-equipping - here we go....

[____________Greystar]

How will mobs be changed when the patch goes through ? Lower HP ? Lower AC ? Lower hits ? Higher Exp ? All ?

[-Zagadka-]

One way to appease people: Make wrangles last a bit longer, so they are viable in mission/hunting.

[Nanogater]

Originally posted by CHILD
i restarted as a ma,. and due to the last patch i am useing a ma weapon. i am doing it diffrent with this chr and i am not putting on anything what i cannot self buff to do so . but i am allready finding many probems and i am only lvl 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


basicly i got a cool 1hd blade wep for a ma in a mission , ql4
when fighting mobs what are green / yellow.. basicly i get my ass kicked.. now if i got wrangled , implanted i could get a ql15 weapon on no problems. but thats what your trying to stop .
the reason why people over equipt is if u use weaopns and armor found in missions with a ql close to your lvl, basicly lvling is slow , hard and dull , of corse if you made the monsters more aimed to the ql lvl of your weapons 95% of the game will ace max diff missions solo and lvl too fast.... but after this patch will you make it so monsters ( im rearly just talking in missions) are more fun to fight at say lvl 60 with only ql 60 items , ( my atrox enforcer at lvl 60 has a ql 170 belt , ql 150 ncu , ql 120 armor , ql 160 hammer ,,, and he can only just take down orange things !!!!)


please reply to this as i feel its a very important point ,.

of corse the other thing you can do is change the exp on missions....

would like to know and im sure the rest of the game will ...

thanks for your time

If u have problems with a MA At lvl 4 u have big problems indeed, but they got nothing to do with AO...

MA has no prob doing solo missions, not at lvl4, not at lvl104.

A lvl60 Atrox enforcer with a ql170 (6slot) belt ? U must have used so much ip in comp lit, int and treatment no wounder u r a gimp fightingwize. Try upping ur fighting skills instead

[Cz]

Won't be getting and posting answers until later today. we're gonna have an evaluation meeting at 3pm CET, and I hope to have the full list brought up there.

/me grabs some of the cookies, and heads off for lunch.

[__________Spacegipsy]

*Hands CZ some cookies* So there ya go .

Anyway, I'm having mixed feelings on this patch, and here's why:

1) I think it won't really get the exploiters - because they won't be forced to take their Imps/NCUs etc. out - *unless* they want to make use of the IP reset.
I can see where a *forced* removal of all that stuff would get extremely messy - so I can understand it's not done, but it will still leave those who legally over-equipped in bigger disadvantage than the exploiters .

2) Why are so many people opposed to over-equipping? Mostly I guess, because it leads to unfair advantages in PvP.
I can see that point, but as long as the over-equipping is done *legally* - i.e. by use of buffs, wrangles, imps etc. it is available to *everyone* who takes the time and effort to do it.

3) Why are so many ppl over-equipping and begging to remain over-equipped? Because they want to *own* in PvP? Hmmm no, maybe some of them, but not all, by far not all.
People are over-equipping (and over-equipping a lot) because otherwise they don't stand a chance against the MoBs. In team-play this might not matter as much, but there are times when you want or have to solo. Even in a large guild (such as ours) - you don't always find ppl to team with, or there are times when you prefer to solo, be it for tokens, or just the experience of solo play, whatever..
No, by no means do I think that *any* class should be able to solo deep-red mobs - no way - don't get me wrong.
But as long as there are classes out there (and quite a few) that can't even solo green/light-green mobs post lvl 50 without heavily over-equipping (and some can't even solo those mobs *with* heavily over-equipping), there is something wrong.
So if you go through with this - make Mobs easier still or help those *weak* classes in other ways.

4) Maybe a solution: Make those OE rules count only in PvP, and *not* in PvM. I think this would make most ppl happy.

5) One of my biggest concerns are the trader debuffs - in PvM and especially PvP. An answer on that would be much appreciated.

6) And - last - not least - I know this doesn't quite belong here but anyway - if levelling wasn't such a bore (I'm Lvl 154, I need roughly 15 Mill. XP to Lvl, if I was actually crazy enough to try and make a Lvl solo, I'd have to kill about 2000 (!!!) Mobs to do it - that was *if* all went well, no deaths or such...) , if there was more *fun* stuff to do, stuff like prof-oriented missions, tradeskills better implemented, story missions that can actually be found and done, static dungeons that weren't over-powered for the levels they're aimed for and boring for the higher levels, if levelling actually was more *fun*, then maybe we wouldn't worry so much about how to level faster and faster, because we'd actually be having fun doing it.

[Raiko]

Originally posted by Intra
could someone tell me if this is possible, as this is what I see happening...

those with the highest NCU will just relocate the comp lit ip as they no longer have any use for it. they can just get rid of it and keep their current belt.

also because NCU and implants are not effected by OE changes then stepping implants will still be possible to a large degree.

leaving these things out of the OE changes creates a huge window of oportunity that people will use and exploit to get their skills maxed and stay maxed with hugely equipped implants.

I do think implants should be part of the OE changes... but obviously dont count the treatment skill into the 20% as you get 100 treatement temporarily in order to put them in

oh.. and /me puts out some plain cookies for Cz

I dont think this would be a problem since you have to have an empty wear menu whenever you use IPR points.

[-Zagadka-]

Main prob is casters not being able to OE :-p

[Kinkstaah]

I was 666th, If you looked at the thingy, it said "replies 666", and last post by me.

THATS 666TH, AND THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT BROUGHT UP IN THIS DISCUSSION SO FAR!

END.

[Dharshar]

Instead of pinning the problem on the pet owners why, in the name of all thats holy, dont you address the point at the root and remove the Wraggle Nanos istead. That would take care of all of the OE and still leave most ppl satisfied.

[Nanogater]

Big Welcome to this OE patch

But if mob's where 'fixed' in 13.8 and r not going to be nerfed again then we'll have a problem. Someone said NT and MA would become über after this patch, lol. MA r now working ok yes, we can solo missions np. PvP wize MA r good as long as we get in range before rooted

NT is über gimp, and this patch, although helping pvp-wize, will do nothing for solo missions. At lvl100+ solo missions r out of the question because even at 20% diff setting meeting grey mobs only we do have a very hard time, and if we survive we most likely wont get a token. Calm-blitzing is ok, but it would have been more 'fun' if autoattack and sync problems where fixed. Still very dangerous, as it should be, but at least u would hit reclaim for the rigth reasons.

Oh, on a side note, a Great Big Welcome to the Team Mission Patch, my support class NT will at least get tokens without recieving charity

[_____________Hextorr]

Originally posted by MiKEBoND
I was 666th, If you looked at the thingy, it said "replies 666", and last post by me.

THATS 666TH, AND THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT BROUGHT UP IN THIS DISCUSSION SO FAR!

END.

hehe i think i was looking at your number of posts, lol you post a lot Kink ;P

[_____________Hextorr]

the +100 treatment buff is not a problem, if you want to give a +100 bonus just include it in the formula when calculating the OE to add 100 at the skill check...

AAL items must pass the OE check, most of all NCUs and Implants!

[____________Phelisha]

i welcome them with open arms! this should be another good add on, and hopefully it will come out ebfore this nerfing bull$***
so i can see what will (and should) be like.

[_______________Intra]

Originally posted by Urshu


I dont think this would be a problem since you have to have an empty wear menu whenever you use IPR points.

oh yeah..

oops

[Metachrom]

This is very good solution for OE. Must be dont long time ago thou.

Great job FC!

[____________Ejeckted]

when i play, overequiping IS the real game.
the mindless mutant bashing and repetative
missions are the chores i have to put up with.
but i feel damn proud of my toons when they
have 3different professions buffs running
+ a specialy designed implant set just to
get on a nice new weapon or armor set.

this change kills the fun and leaves the tedium.

there were much better suggestions on how
to balance overequiping, without removing
the strategy that keeps so many of us playing.

---------------------------------------------------
a higher QL weapon should NEVER EVER
be WORSE than a lower QL weapon.
---------------------------------------------------
Funcom, you can save half the playerbase from
quitting if you just abide by that rule in your 'fix'.

Anti-overequipers, listen.
most of us pro-overequipers dont care about being 'uber'
and dont want to 'own' you in PvP. We just want this strategy
to remain in the game. It is fun for us.

I dont care if ultimately a level80 player with a QL200gun
only does an extra +1 point of damage for his effort,
just dont PUNISH this strategy.

We want balance too, and are just trying to drive home
the point that *this solution* is unacceptable and why.

It's not a black or white arguement.
It's not either accept 'overequiping' as it is now,
or accept this arbitrary capping garbage.

We want another solution; a solution that scales,
and one that doesnt make a QL121 weapon worse than a QL120.

[Raiko]

Originally posted by Scumbug
when i play, overequiping IS the real game.
the mindless mutant bashing and repetative
missions are the chores i have to put up with.
but i feel damn proud of my toons when they
have 3different professions buffs running
+ a specialy designed implant set just to
get on a nice new weapon or armor set.

this change kills the fun and leaves the tedium.

there were much better suggestions on how
to balance overequiping, without removing
the strategy that keeps so many of us playing.

---------------------------------------------------
a higher QL weapon should NEVER EVER
be WORSE than a lower QL weapon.
---------------------------------------------------
Funcom, you can save half the playerbase from
quitting if you just abide by that rule in your 'fix'.

Anti-overequipers, listen.
most of us pro-overequipers dont care about being 'uber'
and dont want to 'own' you in PvP. We just want this strategy
to remain in the game. It is fun for us.

I dont care if ultimately a level80 player with a QL200gun
only does an extra +1 point of damage for his effort,
just dont PUNISH this strategy.

We want balance too, and are just trying to drive home
the point that *this solution* is unacceptable and why.

It's not a black or white arguement.
It's not either accept 'overequiping' as it is now,
or accept this arbitrary capping garbage.

We want another solution; a solution that scales,
and one that doesnt make a QL121 weapon worse than a QL120.

..but you'll still be able to overequip to a large degree - for example I checked my adv last night and at level 82 he would still be able to wear a QL 150 gun legally. He would still need outside help to equip it, but once the outiside buffs had gone he'd still be within the 20% threshold.

14.2 will just add a reasonable ceiling to over equiping, it wont stop it altogether.

[______________Felix7]

Hello,
well this is my first time posting on these or any forums for AO. Well well what has this come to ppl !!!!! all this discussion over something like OE.... well i think i can say i have viewed this problem from both sides of the fence !!!!!!!!

First off i would like to say that atm OE is allowed by the ammount of buffs out there that do it..... and are ppl here thinking its cheating somehow ?

well heres my views.........
when i started this game around a year ago i was a lone person happy wandering around and doing things on my own or in teams. then one day in a team i noticed my damg was poooo comparied to other peeps i asked how they do this !!!!! i then see what weapons they usin and think wow how do they get that on ???? im not even close to those stats !!!!!! so as to be expected i was annoyed with these OE'rs i would of said burn them in hell lol

well as life progressed in game and in the real world i started to network in game gettin to know ppl and especialy WHAT does WHAT !!!! so i deciede to start a new character an ENG ( 1st char was an ADV btw ) when i started this character i done my reserch this time and vowed not to waste ip on crap thats not going to be needed so i would usually not spend all my ip when i lvl'd just waited untill i found somethin i needed then used it . well anyway i eventualy found a guild and by now had a few ppl i knew who would always help me do things and get items and we soon became and good working team.......... this process has taken around a year to achieve and now its possible because of guild and friend s to get those wrangles and those buffs when and where needed............. SO u can see that i have moved from a complet newbie who was dead against OE to someone who in a way is tryin to defend it..... yes there are ppl like me who would rather play the game than whine on these boards all day about why i cant do this or that !!!! infact i think alot of ppl will be comin to these boards and viewing this document as i think this is a death nail for the game !!!!!! after all what will be the point of the game no one who has put effort into gettin to know ppl and makin friends and joined guilds etc etc to be able to futher there characters or in someway become better than others........ we will all end up being the same shells with diferent clothing and all doing roughly the same damg......... such fun ........ not.....

what im tryin to say is that if u are new to game ............ IT TAKES TIME TO LEARN IT so what do u expect ? .................. or if u have been playin for awhile and still moan about OE r u in a guild or do u play alone ? have u made friends ? have u learnt what can can do ?

hehe cant stop now can i

PvP i believe has lead use to this situation regarding OE well my answer they is put a flag on characters so they can choice to PvP or not and TO BE HONEST what do ppl expect if they PvP i believ that FC are goin to hit the more QUIET and SILENT majority here if they implament these changes.......

like i said i have played for a year without the need to post anythin regarding this game.......... but this has to be responded to as it will effect what i believe to be the silent majority of game players who have got to know ppl and worked hard at getting where they are...........


enough

be good

Felix7

[locomdenom]

No one is claiming overequipping is cheating (well, I hope they aren't.... it isn't.)

OEing is simply a cause for a game balance issue, itself caused by the rules FC set. They intend to change the rules to help fix the balance issue.

Simple, no?

3 PM CET is what time EST??

And yes, Scumbug, a scaling solution would be better. Maybe up to 10% below, no penalty, and then 2% penalty per 1% overequipped? I don't have a problem with a much higher QL weapon being less useful than a "normal" QL weapon, but I understand your point about QL120 vs. QL121 being very, very different. However, with bots and whatnot you'd still have to set a hard point for control loss, I suspect, and 20% is probably a good number there - decent discussion on the Engi forum over exactly what the OE changes would mean to their ability to summon bots.

Basically, most of them figure it won't hurt them much, just stop the lvl 80 twinks summoning slayerdroids.

[_____________Morgoth]

I personally think that twinking is very fun, everyone can do it, it adds flavour to the game when you have played a while, and of course it shows who the good players are.

I think it is arrogant to belive that when you have played for 3 weeks, 1 hour a week, that you should survive a trip to MMD or 2HO.

I have been there, gotten killed by UBER twinked, and sometimes exploited characters. I did the same as all the other: /shout cheating bastards!! you don't follow the rulez!! and so on.

I then got to know people who could do this marvelous twinking, and I learned how to become as good as them.

This is called learning, and is based upon possibilities. This is, in my view perhaps the most important part of the game, it gives a person a strange satisfaction to achieve something.

Of course it was hard in the beginning, but nothing easy is ever satisfying to do, it must be hard.

And the economey of the world of Rubi-Ka is based upon selling buffs for money, infact many people have built characters to buff others so they can make money for other characters. I like the idea that someone have got the entire demand/deliver system of the real world, I often mutter by inflated Mochams prices, but hey, they spent 4 months building the character to be able to cast those spells, if you don't like to pay, then don't. Same as in rl

PvP: When it come to PvP all good pvp'ers know that every profession can be used as pvp. Not all are as good for stand alone pvp, but neither should they. Why do you think Crats got their name, to run in the front line attacking? sure, many of these professions need something more to them, needs a little fixing, but that got nothing to do with twinking.

The best pvp professions are in my belief ranging from top to bottom:

- Trader
- Doc
- MP
- MA
- Enforcer
- Soldier
- Crat
- Advent
- Agent
- NT
- Fixer
- Engineer

I have seen Rookie's of all the above. If you go up to higher lvl's 120+ you get Agents with MP pets, Docs and NT's with soldier MK shields and assault rifles. I play an engineer and I don't mind being a loser in pvp, cuz I learn to adapt and I make my kills anyway.

There will always be someone better in pvp, peronally I think this should be the fighting classes like enforcer, MA and soldier, not support classes like Trader, Crat or NT, but thats my opinion.

As to hunting:

I must honestly say that I have never had problems with hunting mobs, npc's and such in team or otherwise. This goes if I am twinked or otherwise, if you are twinked you gain lvl's faster cuz you kill more dangerous mobs, and this is the way it should be, I am better, more experienced and I got better equipment.

So really, there is nothing wrong with twinked except from one thing, many of the new players can't do, neither should they since we couldn't either when we started. But what people don't have they want themselves and if they can't have it then something is wrong and needs to be fixed. Please grow up, I know the world isn't fair for all, live with it, take the challenge and fight yourself through, then at the end you can become an UBER fighter yourself. And if you don't want to, but like to dress in clothes and not armor, likes to remove your weapon at will, then do so, I won't look down on you, but neither should you expect to kill me in PvP or lvl as fast as me.

You will have more friends and have fun, I will lvl and fight, and if you some day would like to fight, give me a tell and I'll teach you how, but don't just say: I can't do as well as him, so he must be a cheater and nerfed so he becomes as bad as me. Thats to easy.

There must be room for us all and I have been to all stages of the game, there isn't anyone except the cheaters who have had it easy with their first or second character, live with and learn and stop worrying about others that have more then you, you will get there if you want.

Yours


Lifedrain
General of Security
Omni Shadow Ops