Over-equipping - here we go....

[Teccer]

Originally posted by Sarelron


Funny, I just put in QL 92-131 implants, some of which required 625 in treatment. I'm lvl 72. Had to spend some points in Treatment, but I got them on, so I'm sure you can too.

Sarelron

Quite..I've maxed treatment every level since lvl 1. I've got 380 treatment skill. now..with the the nerf, excuse me, patch, I can use something that's within 20% of 380 treatment (cause I'm not wearing a medsuit into combat, nor do I bring a stationary surgery clinic with me so the 170+ treatment i get there is gone)

Now..380+(20%of380)=456..alright so far so good if your implants aren't higher level than you (actually I think I can use my QL 90's with that..need to check to be sure..but anything higher..nope..

Another 2 cents

Teccer

[______________Snails]

Why the glum faces?
I play a level 40 soldier, have a lq 70 novaflow.
what did I do to equip it? well I made my self some implants ql50
cast some skill buffs on my self.
say the assult rifle skill.
ql 50 implant shining +30
ql 50 implant bright +18
ql 50 implant faded +12
+assult rifle prof buff +20

total =80

base skill 5*40 = 200
with implants and buff 280

right now if I wish I can ask trader to wrangle me 20% more without any problems.
max total skill for a level 40 like my self would be 336.
thats without any wrangles.
this means I can without penaltys from the new system us use most weapons of a ql less that 2 X my own level.

My points is with a novaflow ql 70 I can with some luck kill dark red mobs while soloing missions. this is risky, so I stick to the light reds or lower, for safety.

All this may change at higher levels. But for now implants and buffs I can cast myself is working just fine.

[______________Lumens]

One more for DAOC. Bye bye FC.

[______________Scorus]

If I do'd it, I get a whippin'...

I do'd it.

Originally posted by FearDeath
HIRE SOMEONE TO SPELL CHECK FOR YOU WHO ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDS ENGLISH.

...funcome...te...ive...thiers...HERES SOME...THIER...THIER

That position will not be filled by FearDeath, I dare say.


Scorus

[_______________Siksi]

Can't wait.

This thing may change a lot of things an dyes, I think it goes in the good way (I started to be pissed not to see that much "weak" classes because they couldn't do as much dmg as that over equiped pack of enforcers).

Plus the IPR sounds exciting ! Really, plus it sounds to be done in an intelligent way and that's cool (XP for IPR, I just like that).

Of course I can see the ppl coming frolm here claiming they are nerfed... But well, this time I don't care because the game will AT least be rebalancing. I don't expect it to be rebalanced correctly right away after the patch, but that's a hell of a big move that way.

That was just to give my opinion

[_____________Gokudan]

Originally posted by MrGumby
If the testers aren't at least 70% happy about the changes, I would strongly suggest making OE changes live on Rubika-2 only (sorry but I know Funcom won't make a third dimension just yet and there are less players there) and enable characters to switch to their desired dimension.

They impliment the patch on EITHER server and I'm gone, I'll be blunt, I chose a trader for the ability to self OE easily, that's the point of being a trader, I shouldn't have to re-buff from my deprive/ransack just because FC can't try better methods.

Fair OE's like me will be nerfed, uber-twinks with QL 200 weapons will still be fine, where is that justice?

[_______________Wutto]

Originally posted by Lumens
One more for DAOC. Bye bye FC.

I think it's going to be a bit more than one for DAOC :-)

[__________Mindswayer]

Originally posted by Gokudan
Has anyone noticed how many people who have NEVER posted a message before think this is significant, some even registered this month (most likely today) to post about how stupid a way of limiting OE this is.

And on a further note, why hasn't an official like Cz come on yet and answered? Do you think it's cause we're right?

That or Ubah d00ds with multiple accounts :P. Or eBay/sploiters with dozens of trial accounts...

Hell I could start up a few Trial Accounts to add weight to my opinion too. But it just so happens I am against the OE changes, but just because they don't do enough to change the game for the better.

[____________Maitrize]

Originally posted by Gokudan


Fair OE's like me will be nerfed, uber-twinks with QL 200 weapons will still be fine, where is that justice?

No crap.

The funny thing.

My friend messing around equipped:

ql 200 coat.
ql 200 helm.
ql 200 BELT AND NCU.

Level 1 player with ql 200 grinner. Did 500 burst damage.

Thing is.

Unless that level 1 player elsewhere reallocates IP, they're using ql 150 equipment.

But given that this character is an alt, they PROBABLY won't need to reallocate. Ever.

Funcom should really consider who they're effecting. It won't solve anything if the only people REALLY EXPLOITING to OE, have already equipped all they can to avoid getting caught.

(not endorsing OE'ing, my friend that did this whole thing just did it for kicks and the player promptly ... well CAUGHT by funcom and all equipment removed *sniffle* wasn't mine anyway...)

[Swing]

I can only see a few small flaws with the overequipping check. The first one is implants. Virtually everyone has implants that technically are overequipped. Treatment req, remember? That skill that the surgery clinic buffs 100 points? This is going to cause havoc when all of thoes well-crafted cyber bits start to run at 75% efficiancy if you dont meet the treatment requirement.

Oh hell no. This will not do.

The other point is NCU belts and upgrades. Here is another arena thats going to get hosed if the OE check works as proposed. With the rediculious amount of space that some high-level buffs take up, you pretty much need as much NCU space as you can get. I suppose it could be construed as a clever plan to make fixers more attractive in groups ("Everyone got thier comp lit buffed up? Ok, yer toast, Big_Nasty_Ubermob!"), but I think not.

One way to avoid this impending doom is to exclude both implants and NCUs from the OE check. Other then these few gripes, I have no problems with the check. I've always been a big fan of self-equipping, anyway.

The IP buyback points are a pretty good idea. Better then a full IP reset, IMHO.

More to come...

[Betablue]

I'm in total agreement with this patch. Fantastic work.

[_____________Gokudan]

Originally posted by EvilGlitch


That or Ubah d00ds with multiple accounts :P. Or eBay/sploiters with dozens of trial accounts...

Hell I could start up a few Trial Accounts to add weight to my opinion too. But it just so happens I am against the OE changes, but just because they don't do enough to change the game for the better.

Lol, maybe someone is, but like someone said OldScotch I think, almost everything has been said - least people aren't sticking to one disadvantage

[____________Gigaquad]

They may be quirks in the formula that may be ironed out. I never overeuipped any more than I can do myself. I did get the services of nano programmers for my implants. But I never engaged a Doctor to boost my treatment skills to abnormal heights, in order, that is, to install the said implant. Other than using a treatment implant for a temporary increase in that skill, I never went beyond what I could do for myself. Including using pills and buffs, that I can use. That's the moral limit.

To have paid some higher up for a buff that's way above your current skill level? Well that may be considered "trade" by some. That may be, but then it's not fair to those who are more honest with themselves. I say this then, a person should be allowed to by any means possible at his employ or by his own skill, should be allowed to increase their skill.

Better than using a formula that may hinder the above, "moral limit"; it would better to limit certain "Buffs" to the target's level. Plus or minus twenty. You do the same thing with the mobs, do you not? If a person's level is in the "grey" area for the buff, he can't get it. The above is a simplistic suggestion that even itself garners more questions. We know what to shoot for, it just gets too complex to implement properly to everyone satisfaction.

[____________Maitrize]

Treatment labs are exploiting.

Using a gun beyond your level is exploiting.

Wearing armor beyond your level is exploiting.

Shooting is exploiting.

Using bullets is exploiting.

Using nano rechargers is exploiting. No one should get their nano back that quickly.

[____________Halbundy]

Overequipping requires no skill. I do 70% missions and I have absolutely no weapons, armor or pets that are overequipped by the +20% definition. I am also not a cheater and have never so much as hit myself with a nano to break a root. I'm just a good player who has gotten 6 months of practice at perfecting how to play his character in a mission. THAT is the kind of player that will be able to 70% missions after this change, not someone who was handed a big gun and told how to equip it by a guildmate.

Bring it on!

Scorus [/B][/QUOTE]

Overequipping requires no skill ?....Bah, then why cant everyone do it ? Do YOU know how to get LEGALLY get 930 treatment skill from a base of 574 treatment ? Do YOU know what combination of stepping implants it takes to get in lvl 195 implants at lvl 130 ?? If you DON'T then you arent as skilled as the guy that does. 70% missions? If you're a pet using class, all you have to do is learn how to single pull.

I also run 70% missions solo, and this next patch isn't going to stop me because I made damn sure I was at the point where it wouldn't... once I heard about this coming. Am I benefitting from getting a head start ? Damn right. Using a little forethought is one of the marks of a skillful player too. Those who dont pay attention to the links on the AO site, those who just blunder around in a self generated fog....too bad. You shoulda paid attention. Those of you just starting out, you'll be missing a good portion of what made this game fun: what WASa diverse and rewarding equipment and character development design.

AO's mechanics for equipment and implants is fairly complex. Not rocket science, but not just a matter of finding the big gun and power-up (Quake ) either. There are an amazing number of people that manage to get past lvl 50 and dont have a working understanding of it. Who's fault is that ? No one but their own. No time ? Still no one's problem but their own. You wanna get better, learn the game. Cant figure it out on your own ? Find someone to teach you. Can't make friends ? Learn some social skills. Whats being done here is not for the benefit of the under-achiever. This patch is to punish those who have succeeded.


Halbundy

[_____________Gokudan]

Originally posted by Maitrize
Treatment labs are exploiting.

Using a gun beyond your level is exploiting.

Wearing armor beyond your level is exploiting.

Shooting is exploiting.

Using bullets is exploiting.

Using nano rechargers is exploiting. No one should get their nano back that quickly.

LOL

I'm an uber-twink then, it's the Super-Uber Godlike Twinks that need bringing down a few

[_____________Pinkoid]

Originally posted by Snails
Why the glum faces?
I play a level 40 soldier, have a lq 70 novaflow.
what did I do to equip it? well I made my self some implants ql50
cast some skill buffs on my self.
say the assult rifle skill.
ql 50 implant shining +30
ql 50 implant bright +18
ql 50 implant faded +12
+assult rifle prof buff +20

total =80

base skill 5*40 = 200
with implants and buff 280

right now if I wish I can ask trader to wrangle me 20% more without any problems.
max total skill for a level 40 like my self would be 336.
thats without any wrangles.
this means I can without penaltys from the new system us use most weapons of a ql less that 2 X my own level.

My points is with a novaflow ql 70 I can with some luck kill dark red mobs while soloing missions. this is risky, so I stick to the light reds or lower, for safety.

All this may change at higher levels. But for now implants and buffs I can cast myself is working just fine.

Here Here!!! A player understanding the exact principles of how to equip and use the normal way....

[_______________Wutto]

Originally posted by Halbundy
Overequipping requires no skill. I do 70% missions and I have absolutely no weapons, armor or pets that are overequipped by the +20% definition. I am also not a cheater and have never so much as hit myself with a nano to break a root. I'm just a good player who has gotten 6 months of practice at perfecting how to play his character in a mission. THAT is the kind of player that will be able to 70% missions after this change, not someone who was handed a big gun and told how to equip it by a guildmate.

Bring it on!

Scorus

Overequipping requires no skill ?....Bah, then why cant everyone do it ? Do YOU know how to get LEGALLY get 930 treatment skill from a base of 574 treatment ? Do YOU know what combination of stepping implants it takes to get in lvl 195 implants at lvl 130 ?? If you DON'T then you arent as skilled as the guy that does. 70% missions? If you're a pet using class, all you have to do is learn how to single pull.

I also run 70% missions solo, and this next patch isn't going to stop me because I made damn sure I was at the point where it wouldn't... once I heard about this coming. Am I benefitting from getting a head start ? Damn right. Using a little forethought is one of the marks of a skillful player too. Those who dont pay attention to the links on the AO site, those who just blunder around in a self generated fog....too bad. You shoulda paid attention. Those of you just starting out, you'll be missing a good portion of what made this game fun: what WASa diverse and rewarding equipment and character development design.

AO's mechanics for equipment and implants is fairly complex. Not rocket science, but not just a matter of finding the big gun and power-up (Quake ) either. There are an amazing number of people that manage to get past lvl 50 and dont have a working understanding of it. Who's fault is that ? No one but their own. No time ? Still no one's problem but their own. You wanna get better, learn the game. Cant figure it out on your own ? Find someone to teach you. Can't make friends ? Learn some social skills. Whats being done here is not for the benefit of the under-achiever. This patch is to punish those who have succeeded.


Halbundy [/B][/QUOTE]

I second that.

Ok,

I have been playing this game since it first came out in the UK (around the time when all your customers left because of you making the mobs in the game impossible to beat even when teaming, and you made the bug problems even worse). I have been enjoying the game so much that at the moment it is all I do. I go to college, come home and play AO till midnight, go to college come home play AO till midnight and i do this all through out the week.

Now all the characters that I have on Rubi-Ka 1 and 2 are "twinked" or "uber" whatever you want to call it. The reason for me doing this is because:

1. If I didn't do it then there would be no point in even playing, the missions you set are way to difficult and the prizes that they give are worthless compared to the prices that you have made items in the shops. I do 70-90% missions and the prizes that they give are not even enough to be able to afford something my lvl in the shops.

2. It makes the game twice as fun, i don't want to just fight mobs lvling all day, it gets very boring and repetative. I mean all we are doing is pressing "tab" and "q" . What the hell is so fun about that? At least when over equipting there is some thinking involved. You have to have freinds who are able to cast the buffs you need, you have to be able to work out how many buffs you will need so you can equip the weapon you have been waiting so patiently to get on. I mean do you think we are all stupid or something, can't you make the game more challenging without raising the difficulty of mobs and decreasing our skills?

3. I want to be better than the average player, i want the game to be competitive. If you make this patch, then you are making us do what you want us to. I mean half of the gamers on AO are overequiped anyway (in some shape or form). The only people who are not are the n00bs or the dumbasses who don't know how to play the game properly. I mean, did you not even think that people would overequip. You have given them all the resources to do it. It's like you giving someone some wood, a lighter, some petrol and then saying "don't make a fire" on a cold night.

If you are going to go ahead with this patch (which me and half the population on Rubi-Ka don't) then you are going to be left with a load of mindless puppets who are too stupid to figure out how to play AO as a stratergy game. You are making a stupid mistake for the second time, and this time i don't think you will be so lucky because this time you haven't got people from Europe buying the game without any knowledge about the **** up that you are about to make.

Galcian - 45 Enf
Wutto - 108 Doc
Bloodvessel - 37 MP

[_____________Sdloner]

THIS IS INSANE!!! How in will this help the game?!?!!!!! It's just going to piss people off even more, and show exactly how stupid you guys are. If I notice any damage loss in my new hammer I'll be canceling my account for the second time, and ill bet you anything that you'll loose enough people from this patch that some of you who keep making these terrible changes will be fired aswell. This game only consists cheep graphics, crapy architecture, low frame rates, Terrible design, and UNCOMPREHENDIBLY IDIOTIC changes to aspects that are fine the way they are. Ive worked on simple first timer mod teams who have made better things than this piece of **** game. The only thing holding it together is it's funfactor, but you seem to strive to destroy that. A game can be perfect to your ideals, and will be perfect and fun for the dev team, but its the fans who count. Your running this game into the ground, leave it EXACTLY like it is or else injoy your last days as a game designer, because "Worked on Anarchy-Online" will only hurt your resume.

[_____________Gokudan]

This is fun, if u check, it's been only 8 hours since the posting started and there's 19 pages

Maybe they'll realise if they bother to look on this board at all