Thread: Over-equipping - here we go....

  1. #301

    40meters

    Originally posted by Kiryat


    Range was nerfed because the game structure allowed it to be exploited. Mobs perception limited at 40 meters. That's why range is capped at 40 meters. If you could shoot a mob from outside it's perception, you could kill it with zero risk to yourself - EXPLOIT.
    OMG don't say the range nerf was a good thing.
    read this thread, what your saying is a crok

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...&threadid=5426
    ------------------------------------------
    "I do Not believe in these spooky actions at a distance"
    Albert Einstein

  2. #302
    Originally posted by Kiryat

    Range was nerfed because the game structure allowed it to be exploited. Mobs perception limited at 40 meters. That's why range is capped at 40 meters. If you could shoot a mob from outside it's perception, you could kill it with zero risk to yourself - EXPLOIT.
    Are you quoting FC? Hah.
    They should have fixed the STRUCTURE not nerfed the range. Sure it would have been more difficult but taking the easy way around it is bs.

    Anyway there's a better thread for this conversation, check above URL (Ani's post).
    .:: Isocyanate Doc
    .:: Onigiri Eng
    .:: Myaku MP
    .:: Maitrize Misc
    .:: Moruhine. Pita. Kechi!

  3. #303

    Why shouldnt players be able to....

    Sarelron,

    Why shouldnt people be able to solo a 70% mission ? I'm not talking about out and out cheaters. I'm talking about those people that have the skill, forethought, patience and imagination to use abilities that are legally in the game (buffing, . Just because you can't doesn't mean others shouldn't. Someone soloing a mission doesnt do so at someone else's expense...as opposed to PvP, which by nature is at someone else's expense. Besides, the class that solo's best under the current rules ( engineers ), are lacking in the PvP department. So there's a trade-off for the superior ability to solo PvE.

    Looks like you have 'Bot-envy, Sarelron. Why don't you judge your effectiveness by your own progress instead of spending so much time looking at the guy standing at the next urinal....

    Besides, here's something I'll enjoy telling you: Any engineers with TS/MC skill around 700 will be able to keep control of their SLAYERDROID short of a trader (MOB or Player) debuff. This includes just about every engineer lvl 125+, if they spent their IP's and planned out their implants wisely. For those that havent done so, well...you played your engineer poorly...and yes, having the right equipment and skills is a very valid reflection of your playing skill. So is having the right friends. This IS, after all, a MULTIPLAYER game. Having the right friends is a result of the efforts you make in-game.

    This patch aims to please those unskilled players that feel left behind by those that developed their characters intelligently. This proposed patch removes much of the reward for being a better player. It basically limits how much you can improve yourself regardless of your efforts and skill. Remember, as it is right now, ANYONE can work towards, and acheive, a high level of equipment and implants. Some achieve it, some dont. As of the 14.2 patch, everyone will be limited regardless of skill. Well, maybe the lazy-unimaginative-unskilled-unintelligent-communist leaning whiners will at least shut up when everyone is forced down to their level of weakness.

    Halbundy

  4. #304

    Mostly Great

    I love the way you're handling IP reset. (I do want to know, thank you somebody else for bringing it up, if "nothing worn" includes rings that can't be taken off without destroying them, like IP and Luck rings. Ouch.)

    I love the general idea of how you're handling the nerfing of weapons and armor.

    I do wonder if 20% is the right number; I felt happier when the proposed steps were at 25%. I'm wondering why the change.

    Having never played a trader, I would seriously appreciate it if somebody would give me a better idea of what percentage, on average, a trader can reduce MC/T&S on a target of roughly the same level. Including in that both stacked debuffs. If Drain Int affects skills based on Int, include that, too, please.

    'Cause here's my thinking. If my MP self-buffs into a pet, well, losing 20% of his buffed MC/TS is a LOT of points to lose. It doesn't seem to me like it's going to happen that often. But if I'm wrong, then ouch, and I'm going back to what I said in the original thread.

    That would be this. As someone else has already said earlier: debuff a soldier by 25%, his weapon drops 25% in effectiveness. Debuff a meta-physicist by 25%, his "weapon" drops to zero percent. This is fair?

    Actually, it might be, because I just thought of one more implication of something buried in that post. You're no longer saying that the pet won't respond to any orders, you're just saying that it gets stuck in "behind" mode. Can I terminate it and summon a lower-level pet?

    I know that keeping up with this thread and dragging answers out of Mr. Godager and arguing our side on the occasions when when we convince you means that since this article went up, you must be having a couple of rough days, CZ. Thank you, though, for the effort you've put in so far. I hope you can keep on doing as well as you're doing. Thanks!

    P.S. Oh, and please pass on this message, too: 14.0 and 14.2 had better stay on test for a very, very long time each, and this time, they had really, really, really better do a better job than they did with 13.8 of listening to feedback from the test community. Thank you.

  5. #305

    Re: Why shouldnt players be able to....

    Originally posted by Halbundy
    Sarelron,

    Why shouldnt people be able to solo a 70% mission ? I'm not talking about out and out cheaters. I'm talking about those people that have the skill, forethought, patience and imagination to use abilities that are legally in the game (buffing, . Just because you can't doesn't mean others shouldn't. Someone soloing a mission doesnt do so at someone else's expense...as opposed to PvP, which by nature is at someone else's expense. Besides, the class that solo's best under the current rules ( engineers ), are lacking in the PvP department. So there's a trade-off for the superior ability to solo PvE.

    Looks like you have 'Bot-envy, Sarelron. Why don't you judge your effectiveness by your own progress instead of spending so much time looking at the guy standing at the next urinal....

    Besides, here's something I'll enjoy telling you: Any engineers with TS/MC skill around 700 will be able to keep control of their SLAYERDROID short of a trader (MOB or Player) debuff. This includes just about every engineer lvl 125+, if they spent their IP's and planned out their implants wisely. For those that havent done so, well...you played your engineer poorly...and yes, having the right equipment and skills is a very valid reflection of your playing skill. So is having the right friends. This IS, after all, a MULTIPLAYER game. Having the right friends is a result of the efforts you make in-game.

    This patch aims to please those unskilled players that feel left behind by those that developed their characters intelligently. This proposed patch removes much of the reward for being a better player. It basically limits how much you can improve yourself regardless of your efforts and skill. Remember, as it is right now, ANYONE can work towards, and acheive, a high level of equipment and implants. Some achieve it, some dont. As of the 14.2 patch, everyone will be limited regardless of skill. Well, maybe the lazy-unimaginative-unskilled-unintelligent-communist leaning whiners will at least shut up when everyone is forced down to their level of weakness.

    Halbundy
    Good points Halbundy

    I think if Neocron comes out before they release this patch, we can see where the skilled players will exodus to, the way the system that game uses is similar to Deus Ex - an RPG FPS breed.
    Plus I kinda like the ability (and reality) of being able to move while firing a gun.

    Better yet, if I get picked for one of the stages of the beta on this game, bye goes my AO account and I'll keep everyone informed of how much more fun the game is

    lol
    Traders are Kings, they are the ultimate in self-buffing and no one can change it :P

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/charac...2/name/gokudan

  6. #306

    Re: Mostly Great

    Originally posted by Brad, STL/MO
    I love the way you're handling IP reset. (I do want to know, thank you somebody else for bringing it up, if "nothing worn" includes rings that can't be taken off without destroying them, like IP and Luck rings. Ouch.)

    I love the general idea of how you're handling the nerfing of weapons and armor.

    I do wonder if 20% is the right number; I felt happier when the proposed steps were at 25%. I'm wondering why the change.

    Having never played a trader, I would seriously appreciate it if somebody would give me a better idea of what percentage, on average, a trader can reduce MC/T&S on a target of roughly the same level. Including in that both stacked debuffs. If Drain Int affects skills based on Int, include that, too, please.

    'Cause here's my thinking. If my MP self-buffs into a pet, well, losing 20% of his buffed MC/TS is a LOT of points to lose. It doesn't seem to me like it's going to happen that often. But if I'm wrong, then ouch, and I'm going back to what I said in the original thread.

    That would be this. As someone else has already said earlier: debuff a soldier by 25%, his weapon drops 25% in effectiveness. Debuff a meta-physicist by 25%, his "weapon" drops to zero percent. This is fair?

    Actually, it might be, because I just thought of one more implication of something buried in that post. You're no longer saying that the pet won't respond to any orders, you're just saying that it gets stuck in "behind" mode. Can I terminate it and summon a lower-level pet?

    I know that keeping up with this thread and dragging answers out of Mr. Godager and arguing our side on the occasions when when we convince you means that since this article went up, you must be having a couple of rough days, CZ. Thank you, though, for the effort you've put in so far. I hope you can keep on doing as well as you're doing. Thanks!

    P.S. Oh, and please pass on this message, too: 14.0 and 14.2 had better stay on test for a very, very long time each, and this time, they had really, really, really better do a better job than they did with 13.8 of listening to feedback from the test community. Thank you.
    My lvl 38 trader can deprive for 69 and stack a ransack on that of 76 fairly, that'll show u how stupid FC is
    Traders are Kings, they are the ultimate in self-buffing and no one can change it :P

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/charac...2/name/gokudan

  7. #307

    Re: Re: Why shouldnt players be able to....

    Originally posted by Gokudan


    Good points Halbundy

    I think if Neocron comes out before they release this patch, we can see where the skilled players will exodus to, the way the system that game uses is similar to Deus Ex - an RPG FPS breed.
    Plus I kinda like the ability (and reality) of being able to move while firing a gun.

    lol
    _agreed._
    .:: Isocyanate Doc
    .:: Onigiri Eng
    .:: Myaku MP
    .:: Maitrize Misc
    .:: Moruhine. Pita. Kechi!

  8. #308

    Question Reduction to attributes also?

    I'm curious. Nothing has been said about the attributes of a weapon, like +20 to Intelligence. Will that be nerfed also if you don't meet the requirements or just the dmg/performance of the weapon?

    Please let us know.


    Thanks,
    Ecce

  9. #309

    Traders please stop crying

    Okay, seriously, for all those traders who think this patch is nerfing them, wake the hell up.

    first of all, okay so wrangles are useless now...welcome to the rest of RK...make money mezzing missions...like NTs, crats, etc...

    for the overequipping patch...this just made traders better than any other prof, PvM or PvP...first of all, traders can keep their attack skills up 100-300 points in PvM depending on lvl, and about 80-150 in pvp (with one debuff, as the recharge time is long)...

    this patch is more friendly to traders than any other prof, you'll still make money onc eyou learn to mez and you'll now hit 20% harder than everyone else (keep in mind that at the moment, only a GOOD soldier can outdmg a trader)...after this, i may start a trader to prove my point....NO profession but a smart soldier can kill a trader...none...if you die 1 vs 1 against a non-soldier and yer a trader, you did something wrong...

    p.s. don't tell me it's SOO hard to keep the 2 debuffs running during a fight...i do it all the time and i'm an agent using assume profession...

    this was a patch against long-time players of AO...nobody has, as of yet, convinced me otherwise...

  10. #310

    To me...

    It all sounds reasonable and good.

    Overequipped players will kill mobs as easily as before.
    Normally equipped players will have an easier time.

    How is this a nerf?

    Or are you OE'rs just angry that you aren't "uber" enough?
    Camp some mobs, get some phat loot. I just wanna do my missions at a reasonable difficulty level and be able to face a yellow mob with a good chance that I will live.

    /DaveDread

  11. #311

    OE and the casual player

    Personally as a casual player of AO who plays to have fun I see this patch as the biggest hinderance to players who don't have the time to sit down for 12 hour sessions to build a huge group of friends to be able to group with every day. I log in go "donate" for a set of buffs to have a pet that I can survive with 50% of the time as an engineer because 80% of the time a "mob" will bypass your pet completely, and until your pet hits it for 500 damage it won't turn to the pet. OE is about the only way I see for a casual player, or even a player who prefers to go it alone to be effective unless they like doing green missions against foes that are no challenge at all for prizes that are not worth the effort. I will look into the magic 8-ball on this one and say this will hurt more then help.

  12. #312

    humm..

    Ok,

    I have been playing this game since it first came out in the UK (around the time when all your customers left because of you making the mobs in the game impossible to beat even when teaming, and you made the bug problems even worse). I have been enjoying the game so much that at the moment it is all I do. I go to college, come home and play AO till midnight, go to college come home play AO till midnight and i do this all through out the week.

    Now all the characters that I have on Rubi-Ka 1 and 2 are "twinked" or "uber" whatever you want to call it. The reason for me doing this is because:

    1. If I didn't do it then there would be no point in even playing, the missions you set are way to difficult and the prizes that they give are worthless compared to the prices that you have made items in the shops. I do 70-90% missions and the prizes that they give are not even enough to be able to afford something my lvl in the shops.

    2. It makes the game twice as fun, i don't want to just fight mobs lvling all day, it gets very boring and repetative. I mean all we are doing is pressing "tab" and "q" . What the hell is so fun about that? At least when over equipting there is some thinking involved. You have to have freinds who are able to cast the buffs you need, you have to be able to work out how many buffs you will need so you can equip the weapon you have been waiting so patiently to get on. I mean do you think we are all stupid or something, can't you make the game more challenging without raising the difficulty of mobs and decreasing our skills?

    3. I want to be better than the average player, i want the game to be competitive. If you make this patch, then you are making us do what you want us to. I mean half of the gamers on AO are overequiped anyway (in some shape or form). The only people who are not are the n00bs or the dumbasses who don't know how to play the game properly. I mean, did you not even think that people would overequip. You have given them all the resources to do it. It's like you giving someone some wood, a lighter, some petrol and then saying "don't make a fire" on a cold night.

    If you are going to go ahead with this patch (which me and half the population on Rubi-Ka don't) then you are going to be left with a load of mindless puppets who are too stupid to figure out how to play AO as a stratergy game. You are making a stupid mistake for the second time, and this time i don't think you will be so lucky because this time you haven't got people from Europe buying the game without any knowledge about the **** up that you are about to make.

    Galcian - 45 Enf
    Wutto - 108 Doc
    Bloodvessel - 37 MP

  13. #313

    Re: Traders please stop crying

    Originally posted by Akasha
    if you die 1 vs 1 against a non-soldier and yer a trader, you did something wrong...
    lol, I'll let u have that one

    Once they do patch it'll make sure that uber-twinks that have way high QL weapons now dink for 20% less (which will barely make a difference)

    as for PvM, I often get countered on those nanos at equal lvls, too often, with my Psy mod and T&S that I required at max what else am I meant to do
    Traders are Kings, they are the ultimate in self-buffing and no one can change it :P

    http://www.anarchy-online.com/charac...2/name/gokudan

  14. #314

    Re: Respect is dead

    Originally posted by Bionitrous

    Kinda like Tic-Tac-Toe, even a chicken can be taught to win if you let him go first.
    Actually, if both parties know how to play, tic-tac-toe cannot be won.

  15. #315

    Maybe a step back and number crunch.

    Try to compare two rifles that will fall into the 'just under 20% OE' and 'just under 40% OE' ranges to see if ANY benefit is afforded to the people who know how the game works.

    QLVL 95 O.E.T. Genuine
    http://antiguardians.org/itemdb.php?&cmd=view&id=123999

    QLVL 135 O.E.T. Lovemaker
    http://antiguardians.org/itemdb.php?&cmd=view&id=124001

    Basically, the same gun. Look at the Rifle Requirements

    402 compared to 511 for the 95 and 135 respectively.

    You are 20% overequipped (NO penalty) for the 95 OET at 322 Rifle Skill.

    You are 39% overequipped (not quite into the 50% penalty bracket) for the 135 OET at 311 Rifle Skill.

    Assume a hypothetical character has the 322 Rifle Skill that allows you to 'legally' equip the qlvl95 gun. I think it will still be better to 'overequip' the the rifle that's 45 quality levels higher and take the 25% damage penalty.

    Your damage over time as calcualated by AntiGuardians using that 322 attack rating and the given weapon stats for the 95 O.E.T. Genuine is 1776 points of damage.

    Using the same 322 attack rating and the 135 O.E.T Lovemaker the calculated damage is 2495 points of damage. A 25% penalty brings this down to 1871 damage. And you're only 37% overequipped. You probably got another level or two of Lovemaking to go.

    So basically at least very high end of the 20%-40% overequipped range still allows a bit of benefit to show through. Not enough to compensate for the time and effort to get there. I think 20% is too small an allowable 'unpenalized range' and 25% is too drastic a penalty.

    BUT as far as my numbers work out, the moderately good new is that a 37% overequipped QLVL 135 Rifle is BETTER than a 20% overequipped QLVL 95 Rifle so the overequipper will still have the statistical edge to KILL you in PvP. That's how it should be.

    ==============================================
    Let's see if it falls to poop with a seriously OE'd rifle, the top notch of this class of gun, the Qlvl188 O.E.T. Ranee.

    Wlvl 188 normal Ranee damage with 322 rifle skill will be 3436 points.

    http://antiguardians.org/crit.php?lo...=0&attrate=322

    This will probably take the 50% damage penalty and drop to 1718 points. This is LESS than a QLVL 95 rifle and is the exact reason I despise this simplist hack of a 'fix'.

    If you guys could at least show some brains and figure out a way that the 188 Ranee does maybe 2200 (as 'punishment' to the smart player) instead of the current 3436. I could deal with it.

    Under that scenario, no matter how small the gain, there would ALWAYS be incentive to use equipment that is even 1 QLVL better.

    Lazy player could say 'It's no biggy, I'm not gonna spend a whole day to put on a gun that gives me 1 point on average better damage. I'd rather level'.

    Diligent player would say 'Why the frig level? It serves no tangible purpose. I'd rather be 1 pt. of damage more efficient. let me spend the day socializing and catching up on old friends and then try out my new gun in a mission'.

    Ignorant player would still say 'huh?'

  16. #316

    Exclamation No official answer on this?

    To the staff of AO:

    I am worried about the whole useless pet issue.

    As a 'Crat I have an orange pet. This should work within the 20% limit. When I meet a monster executing a nano formula that lowers the pet summon skills, will my pet be useless for the duration of that nano formula? Without a pet I am doomed, you understand?

    Several hostile nano formulas lowers the skills as to make my pet 'dead' according to this new rule. They come in many different variants, and occurs in all but the smallest of solo missions.

    I will have to wait for that nano formula to go away, sitting on my but for up to what... 15 minutes? If I should be attacked by an additional monster, I will have to run away, possibly out from the dungeon area. This sounds very unhealthy, methinks. I am unable to take on many monsters without support, due to the nature of my profession.

    I have heard nothing about the effect of skill reducing hostile nano formulas, but I sure fear the worst. As previously mentioned, there is a big difference between a reducement in effectivity and a total loss of a supporting feature!

    I would want to hear this, before dying with 300 000+ unsaved experience points, thank you.

    Sincerely

    Sernon.

  17. #317
    Reducing overequiping is not a good idea, right now it is fair everyone can overequip so whats the problem, this is just going to hurt the xp people get more than anything, you wont be able to kill as hard mobs as you can now, i hope that this doesnt last long because its a very bad idea thats going to make AO a lot less fun to play

  18. #318
    This is incredible. 'fighting oranges isn't economical', 'we'll only be able to gain a level a week', etc. Listen to yourselves. Do you actually play this game solely to hear a Ding? Buy yourself a bell, it is much cheaper.

    Make this game more challenging. I don't want to be level 200 tomorrow or even by the end of the year! I want to exercise my brain and have to figure out strategy after strategy in order to just survive, much less advance. I don't want a game where the only skill you have to have as a player is to go to a web site that explains how to overequip and where to find the fat loot!

    Scorus

  19. #319
    i play a style as so many other like as well, i like to stay behind and make my minions do the hardwork.

    i play a engi.. i'm now a chief engi. take a moment to "feel" that name...
    Thats supposed to be one that can build a fearsome machinery. i dont want to get close to the fire, if i against will end up in pvp i try to hide behind who ever is with me. i dont like to be target because that means a quick death. im smart with machinery. i build big stuff, and dangerous stuff. but if you get me it all over.

    --------------------------
    14,2
    --------------------------

    i play a engi.. i'm now a chief engi. i have no imagination, and hence build only cheap non respectet machinery. i dont want to get close to the fire, if i against will end up in pvp i try to hide behind who ever is around saying"no need for a engy, a soldier/enforcer benefit us more". i dont like to be target because that means a quick death. im an idiot with machinery. i build worthles stuff, and laughable stuff. but if you ignore me ill go away myself



    real world.. a enforcer/soldier/what ever.. is supposed to fear that fearsome warmachine/slayer droid that i can build. its made of steel if not harder and while i build it i addet the biggest amor i could imagine. my bot's are to be feared and respectet.. that's why they are named warmachines... they are not to be put to sleep by a eaqual player or slightly higher player.. they are big weapons of warfare..


    this game is sceiens ficktion we all know, but i cant imagine a Chief Engineer that can't even build a machine that can kill another player no questions asked(around same lvl). whats the point of building machines then?

    i have never complained about ppl that do OE.. all they really do is taking advantage of their knoglege..

    if i start a new char and go and buy a med suit giving me +74 in treatment and first aid (that suit has no requierments and can be bought for ca 5k) and then use the surgery clinic to get aditional 100 in treatment.. have i cheatet then? or have i used my knolegge of being a player since beta 3 to my advantage?

    who ever is doing OE xtreme.. thats their way of playing.. i dont care.. they dont bother me.. i play my way and they play their way..

    the only one whining is all the damn n00b's. always in the way.. always asking for money and you know they just got 25k from another player that they asked. and if they get ganged.. that's because we cheat.


    i say it now cus now im kinda fed up with idiotic patches..
    frankly i said to myself.. "you aint playing this game, if they pull the **** with max one shell in inventory"

    somehow i stayed.. dunno why, because now you are disapointing me again.

    so i say this now.. i have already cancelt my subscription.
    and plan keeping it that way, for the time being. IF you pull this insane patch, im done. if you reconsider i will too (i even think i will reactivate). and i dont take this easy, because i really want to stay. this game is awesome..why are you ruining it?


    if this stops, then the way i like to play stops.. then the way many like to play stops.. then many stop playing.



    Captain "Lordcyrik" Western
    SQ & Chief Engineer

    Ps.

    how many times aday do i have to pay for the same pet? could you ask 2 programmes to add a trace to pets and tell if they die in battle or by warp/zoning/LD what ever.. and give us back our pets. i spend roughly 1/3 of the time getting a new pet.

    i have to find a trader and a mp willing to help me for less than 100k each. im so sick of it..i really am "sick,sick,sick,sick" of building a pet i just lost in a warp/paralel zoning and the pet costet me my last creds.

  20. #320

    Re: Want me to be impressed...

    Originally posted by Jentai
    ...then have all implants on all characters bumped out on the day of the patch.
    I would like to see this too, but at least they won't be able to reallocate any IP until they take those massively overequipped implants out.

    Scorus

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