Over-equipping - here we go....

[Apothic]

IP reset sounds good, I totally screwed up my initial characters, but since the recent Martial Artist (MA) patch, I've actually been using my highest character with all his random IP spread out all over the place in uncessary skills. (Opps..I thought Melee Int. was for my fists since I did Melee damage..ahha...live and learn.)

Since MA's technically use their fists, I suppose the over-equip issue won't affect them, right? Ha, ha...I'd hate to see my MA do less damage again. Please..try to get it right before you patch us!!!

Will you also take into account the self buffs? Like if you mess with NCU and belts, how about a Trader who has self buffs for comp lit? Or for my low lvl enforcer who has a qty 60+ hammer at lvl 29? This is all from my own enforcer buffs, and general buffs. I was able to use my higher buff like head cracker with a Meta Phys' buffs. Isn't that legal? That's what they are there for. We're all part of community, and everyone should help each other out. If we have to keep running to our friends and neighbors each time our buffs run out, um..that would not be fun and I would foresee a lot of people playing less, or going MA. heh..

Frankly, since I also have a pet class, I think it's fair to allow a buffed MP or Crat or Engineer to have a uber pet out for as long as the pet's life is. If his MC and T&S, or wrangle goes away, the pet should NOT stop working. There has to be some more thought taken into that. If it's a PvP, the other player has the option to back out of the PvP so no loss.

Don't get me wrong, I do think it's totally unfair for a low lvl agent to have an uber rifle, but how did he get it on? Did he pay a trader for a wrangle, a higher agent for rifle/aimed shot buffs..a doc for treatment buffs to put on some good implants? This person invested a lot of time into improving him/herself, so maybe we should let this person keep the weapon? Perhaps only let the 20% reduction affect PvP areas?

Well 14.2 will be interesting to see...I'll wait to see what's done.

Thanks for listening...

[______________Wahoo.]

My god , every patch this game become more special.

Well i personally feel this game is going to be a bunch of cookie cut characters. Yes all the same equipment. The win or loss of a battle will depend 30 % on knowledge , 50 % on luck and 20 % on some dum bug which was not intended. Really, i know some people hate going into pvp zones cause there not equipped like some other people. I was slaughtered when i was new to the game as well. It happeneds !!

I had the best time in pvp this weeked against another agent , Both stealthy .. both well equipped. ( this was on rk2)

1st time match we where both so close it was crazy. I mean if the wind blew one way or the other, the battle could end up different.

2nd time i got my clock cleaned. Still , i came back . Time and time again we battled and compared notes.

Now, if the patch brings this kind of excitement.. then bring it on. However i have my doubts about this patch.

In defence of the OE players ..
I once had a fixer called "Jakespeed" He has sence been deleted.
Now with him i played by the rules . I was still a newbee at the time. Never knew what a wrangle was or the true point of implants and other skill modifiers. Now he got spanked like no other trust me . Gimped was not the word for him!! Threw his loses and disapointments i learned how to play. The rule was simple learn everything you can about the classes and the advantages they can give threw buffs ..ect. Also research all the equipment.

Now , with the knowledge i have:

level 30 agent who buffs feline for friends. Fights for his beliefs with his qty 89 riffle. (could go bigger but tring not to OE .LOL )

lvl 137 enforcer who loves to hit and be hit.
He still see's a psychologist for this .. im guessing something from his childhood in the backyard.

A lvl 54 Crat, Nice suit , red pet and he is so charming when he's with his favorite meta girlfriend.


Please for the love of god test this patch .. TEST the hell out of this before going live!!! I for one , am getting tired of losing friends!!! This is a gaming changing patch, so hang on for dear life.

[Arowen]

Originally posted by Templar Red
Ice cream for everyone!

The ability to buff into high-ql shotguns was the ONLY edge that Traders had in PvE: Health is generally low, & health drain nanos are too costly to be relied upon. Heals are poor outside of a team. Crowd control abilities are alright, but not as strong as those of other professions. Skill drains are outstanding in PvP (& will potentially become even more so), but have little effect on mobs.

-Templar Red

While I aggree with stupidly high cost of the health drain nanos, I must disagree with the heals being uneffective.
The team heal nano program does heal a team of 1. well until they change it anyway. I know I have used them many many times. However the cost for the heals in nano is ridiculous. I have been in a full team of 125+ppl (with pets 3 demons 2 slayers) and I have still run out of nano in one fight trying to heal and calm adds of Real Means (which I think are harder then Aces)

and yes the skill drains have little effect on MOBS. and I personally have never PVP'D so.. I don't play games for that reason if I did I would play a first person shooter (i.e. Quake 3 or the like)

Arowen LVL 134 Trader

[________Nanostreamer]

Hurray, 14.2 will be sweet, if done correctly.
One prob I can think of (as so many others) is the trader debuffs. Recasting deprives/ransacks/plunders etc. every 3 min will really be a pain. So how about increasing the duration of the positive effect (self buff) to 30 min or so, while keeping the negative effect the same. Also the casting time might be lowered considering how much more it should be used during combat.

[______________Dareus]

"What I will NOT do is maintain drain pairs AND team wrangles through a mission. That is a nightmare that I simply won't participate in. So, all of you out there will just have to love me for my 4k crits...take care of your own skill levels. "

Looks like someone wanted to be a soldier and chose the wrong button.

Trader who doesn't trade? Player who doesn't know his role. You just wait to get in group once they nerf crits and don't whine about it because it's already been posted.

[__________starknaked]

Ok, I will say that the complaining from Engineers is amusing.

"Fighting oranges is not economical (for ANYONE, not just engies). If I fought oranges I would level so slowly that it would be rediculous."

We have engineers in the game who get MP buffs and trader wrangles and then spend the rest of the day running around with their ridiculously high level pet, soloing mobs 50+ levels higher than themselves, who apparently think that it's that way for everyone.

Newsflash for engineers: try playing any non pet profession, over level 100, and try soloing some dark red mobs, and watch them kick your ass and send you crying home to mama.

Fighting oranges is not economical? Try fighting yellows, like many of the rest of us do. And yes, we level so slowly solo that it's not worth doing. That's why we all fight in groups!

[assassimon]

Originally posted by Terrorizer


yeah?
so?

Look at it this way, you should be able to do a 50% mission with risk(if you are sleepy or go LD)

60% requires wits, speed and other things besides just points put in skills

70% requires death upon death

80% impossible to solo

so, with all respect... hand back that Slayerdroid, and solo like the rest of us.


People that can blitz solo high lvl missions now are:

Agents, Fixers, Crats, NTs, MPs and maybe Traders

Due to concealment, root, calm.

How does a MP blitz a mission?

We have no concealment, no root and no calm

I can solo a mission, it usually takes me around 1 hour if I have crit buff, else it takes 1,5-2

Everyone seems to think MPs have root or calm, we don't have anything useful like that.

[Phinger]

Dont know what glue your sniffing BUT REAL MEANS ARE HARDER than Aces.

Its just some mobs have varying diffs.

A real mean raider is a cake walk compared to an Ace Ruffain.
My Mate an Enforcer and me a NT creamed Two real mean Raiders in one room of a mission....without doc.

THen ran into a real mean Bully and and we were lucky to live...the fight taking like 10 mins....with 4 calms during it to heal up. An Ace Ruffain we met in the next mission....we only need to calm once to complete the fight.

But a Real Mean Bully......beats the snot out of an Ace Ruffain.

Two Enforcers Classes.....Real Mean is top over Ace.


Its just not title its also the class of the MOB....be it Adv, Doc Enf or soldier.

[ironphist]

So after this OE patch, a newb who lvls quickly to lvl 40, with about 50 hours of playing time total, will be completely equal to a guy that is on his 5th char & has well over 1000 hours invested in this game.
The veteran will have no advantage to show for all the study he has done on all the other profession's buffs & the things he needed to learn to make his character the strongest it could be.

It doesn't seem right to me. . . why force the hard workers to be equal with the lazy/ignorant?

[Arowen]

Originally posted by Fingers

BUT REAL MEANS ARE HARDER than Aces.

Its just some mobs have varying diffs.

Its just not title its also the class of the MOB....be it Adv, Doc Enf or soldier.

I was under the impression that aces were the highest in the game if I have been incorrect thank you. I do know a lot of people who thought this way. So now don't take this wrong but say you were fighting a Real Mean Bully and you got an add of an Ace Bully which would be harder? I was under the impression that Ace was supposed to be the hardest human mob in game

Arowen LVL 134 Trader

[____________Travesty]

Over Equipping has been both a boon and a scourge to Anarchy since inception.

This gift gives someone the ability to look past their standing in a way that is unique among games. Success isnt just based strictly on how long one camps an enemy or hours logged. Instead, planning and preparation play a key role in development far beyond what you see in UO, EQ and the others.

Thus far though, this blessing has come with a steep price. The leash on this ability has been too loose. At lower levels, one can equip items four times in quality value over the characters current status. At high levels, characters obtain the maximum item allowed too soon and flatline the rest of their careers. Note, I said "items", meaning weapons, armor, scopes, pets, ncu's and other ability enhancers. A great increase in one of the categories makes the humble, proud. A great increase in All of the these makes the humble, arrogant.

Unfortunately, the passage of time has caused this ability to be ingrained into how we play the game, how we differentiate the powerful from the mediocre, and how we forsee the future development of our characters. The latter will have a tremendous effect upon the game. Far more reaching than mere game balance issues, it will strike at the core of our almost motherly attachment to characters. Bettering these children is the primary , and for many, only, goal of an online role playing game. Pulling the superior quality beam out of the Huge Atrox's paw and placing the premium beam he was reaching for far, far out of reach will be the equivalent of telling Anarchy Online's "Mom's" that there is no more baby formula for their tikes.

Finally, I think that this change is the bravest act I've seen yet by game designers. As a GM in live games, I can do nothing but stand in silent admiration. The designers are prepared to weather the storm caused by the coming exodus in order to establish a new "norm", a standard on which our perceptions and expectations will be based. I am cautiously optimistic. With proper testing, adjustments and above all, explanation, I believe this will begin a new age in Anarchy Online. Yes, I will greatly miss the boon that overequipping has given. But, we must sacrifice it in order to end the scourge.

[____________Lonehawk]

/me am skeptical about the yellow colored ice cream cone.


/me will pass on the ice cream.

[TemplarRed]

Originally posted by Zuleica
I run 3 drain pairs (all the way to the highest) and usually maintain them throughout a solo mission. It isn't THAT hard. I use a ql 200 Defender and can EASILY make it within the 20% rule.

Yes; this is to be expected. The margin between your base skill vs. total buffed skill will grow more & more narrow beyond level 100 (largely, because we're comparing with a percentage). At level 120, this nerf shouldn't be much of a problem, even for a Trader.

I think you can exchange that poo cone for some of the good stuff...

Also, I find it a great deal easier to keep the drain-chain running inside missions, where you can go from room to room very quickly. But on outdoor-team-safari-style hunts, I can't see how this is feasible. Sometimes it takes three minutes or longer for the team to mobilize (buff the pet/heal the Enforcer/recharge the Doc/etc., etc.,)

-Templar Red

[Miriandel]

Originally posted by Dareus
"I wear QL200 Flowers armor, but my agility is breed-capped at 480 while the armor requires 551.

Even if I reach level 200, I still won't be able to wear any QL200 armor in the game, being Solitus.

Since implant locations are scarce, may I suggest you look into this issue ? "

Lets, Proposed OE rules specifies that only stuff more then 20% over equiped will be affected.

Armor req 551, 80% of that is 441 (rounded up) a full 13 levels before you hit breed cap even without implants.

Whats the problem?

The problem is I can't count up to 450 I guess

*goes to hit the sack, waiting eagerly for the best patch ever*

[__________Subject IV]

Originally posted by starknaked
Ok, I will say that the complaining from Engineers is amusing.

"Fighting oranges is not economical (for ANYONE, not just engies). If I fought oranges I would level so slowly that it would be rediculous."

We have engineers in the game who get MP buffs and trader wrangles and then spend the rest of the day running around with their ridiculously high level pet, soloing mobs 50+ levels higher than themselves, who apparently think that it's that way for everyone.

Newsflash for engineers: try playing any non pet profession, over level 100, and try soloing some dark red mobs, and watch them kick your ass and send you crying home to mama.

Fighting oranges is not economical? Try fighting yellows, like many of the rest of us do. And yes, we level so slowly solo that it's not worth doing. That's why we all fight in groups!

Having a pet 50 levels above me STILL cannot out damage an enforcer, adventurer, agent, soldier, NT, MA, or MP of EQUAL to my level.

Our bots do not do anywhere close to the damage of a gun, hammer, or ANY weapon. The reason we can solo at all is because the bot gets hit, and not us.

The reason we had to make pets 50 levels above us in the FIRST place is because our robots are COMPLETELY inferior to any class of equal level. No range attack, poor AC (STILL!!!), slow attack even trimmed, no roots, no calms, not DD nanos. OUR BOTS WERE ALL WE HAD!

And now fighting greens will be a challenge. We have EVERY right to call foul.

Don't judge us until you have walked in our shoes for 100 levels.

Your gun will only be 25% affected. Our bots (which is our weapon) will be 100% affected.

[Xtremtech]

I've searched and I may be blind but I haven't seen a definitive answer to this yet:

1) I used a Shining Surgery Implant in order to get my own implants in. From this thread, I'm given to understand that since the reduction in effectiveness will not affect implants, belts or ncu's. So does this mean that my implants will function after the patch as they do now? Giving the same buffs?

2) The QL of the implants allows me to get certain pets up. Will I still be able to cast those pets effectively?

If not... which skill would I have to raise to get within the requirements? The treatment skill that allowed me to get the implants in? Or the required skills for casting the pet? Or either? Or both?

Which skill will be used to measure whether I'm 20% out or not?

I buffed treatment using the Surgery Implant by ca 16% (within the limit)

This allowed me to get higher QL implants which buffed certain skills (against base) by 30% which would be over the limit....

Clarity would be wonderful on this!

X

Those extra skill buffs allowed me to get a pet.

[_______________Orion]

Common sense dictates applying the OE caps to implants. If you used treatment exploits then you should not be able to benefit from the fruits of this exploit.

A low 90's MP left our misson group the other day b/c we decided to do a 130-140 mission (we were short a doc and didn't have a full team). She didn't want us to waste her time b/c she could solo 130 missions. Engineers at level 90 with slayer droids soloing ungodly high level missions. People complaining that gasp! they will have to level by killing oranges in missions and it will be too slow. The disparity between the classes that struggle in 50% missions and those that can solo missions way above 50% is inequitable. At this preliminary point I will not venture whether this patch is the definitive way to address these issues or not.

People seem to forget that the gameplay is supposed to be challenging, and not just the equipping process. There is no divine right for certain classes to be able to solo ungodly high level missions and level up like a fiend. Either make other classes more capable at soloing, or getting XP through other means, or put a stop to this huge imblalance. Whether this proposed patch will equitably effect these problems cannot be determined at this early date? Let's hear from test first before rushing to judgment.

What this boils down to is that the clever industrious player should not be penalized for the sins of the exploiting scum, yet it's inevitable that there will be some overlap.

[madandyuk]

Just like every online game I have played!

You have the High level players not caring, because they have already exploited the system

And the patch creating a group of have's and a group that will never have.

I'm pretty new to the game prolly shows, but not new to Online Games or games in general. But I can atest to one thing in AO, it's all but impossibal to play at low levels! Credits are impossibal to gain at below 50 lvl ON CERTAIN templets. Soloing is horribal for many classes, impossibal for others. LEVELING, need I say more *Winks*

From my view point I see FU making these changes to balance PvP, but on the other hand will make normal play PvM impossibal for many templets! Without OE many templets will be grossly retard in game and lvl advancement, not to mention the CREDIT crunch that already exsists in game now.

Mybe the thing to do is make these changes to attack zones instead *shrugs* Who really cares how over powered a templet is while he or she is farming credits? The only concern I tend to see is the complaint over the uber PvP equip syndrome?

If PvP is the problem then FIX IT. But to cripple the game mechanic over such a broad span is simply poor thinking. I had hoped leaving my last Online game I would also be leaving half backed ideas behind me But it seems these patch BLUNDERS and half baked changes are characteristic of these types of games.

The only diff between this game and the one I left is the latter had a quarter of a MILLION subscribers and with those numbers you can AFFORD to make a few mad. With AO being so unpopular you chap to many or make it so difficult, the new players leave AO will soon join the "Well we gave it a good GO, HUH?"

And it's MPO this is what will happen, the UBER already have what they need so they care NONE. Right now the newbs still stand a chance because they are afforded at present BUFFS and OE to help them thru the tough times. After the patch, well the UBER will still have it all and the new will struggle until they quit

[________Wyckedchylde]

Cage the rage. as for psychosis pets you mean that green con thing that my MP twink summons that couldn't mez a damn thing for more than a half second if it tried?

Having my NT's calm spells would actually be a big improvement over the mp calm pet :P

[____________Maitrize]

Originally posted by Crymcyn

Quite simply, you're dead wrong. With self-buffed matcrea and spacetime (20 points of each), maxing those stats via ips each level, and good planning with your implants (implants in the normal range of what can be gotten into with no help at all) then you'll have your RED pet (which is nice to have mind you, but even an orange pet, properly trimmed, will own a 50% mission). You just don't want to have to put any effort into levelling.

The red is only a couple of levels beyond the orange pet, but my question here is, do you PLAY an engy? There is always effort and adequate RISK though majority of the people I know don't particularly like fighting only orange mobs (at best) and while we're at being FAIR...

my 32 MP can _SOLO_ 100% missions.
my 57 ENG WITH wrangle/mochams, whatever, RED BOT, can solo 50% fine, 75% NO CHANCE. Beyond 75% you're talking deep HELL and COMPLETE inability to progress.

So how's that for character balance?

At fricken least give eng's some ability to further buff beyond the 20 exp, it's NOT ENOUGH (at very least for MOST Eng's I know) even with trimmers and AC buffs. >_<