2.0 no over equip patch.... no?

[Arinia]

Simple point, it's a complaint, I admit.

But think of it this way:

If FC can't even get basic bugs out of the game, what makes you think that this will be done correctly?

Everything will be thrown out of balance, and the game will change drastically. Small changes are fine, in fact, I expect them in a patchable game. This is no small change. This is DRASTIC.

I have a bad feeling about this. Oh well, I'll have more time for my real life. And I suspect a lot of other people will too.

[Bionitrous]

Of which I play one over lvl100. Can you imagine the sheer soloing power of this class after such a patch? Oh, my, god. I have never asked for a buff from another class, ever. Never. No buff from another class has any appreciable effect on my pets. I already think it's a very involving but almost (almost) overpowerful class now. I can't imagine how easy it'll be so start soloing Vets after they get their hitpoints and damage nerfed.

But, in reality, all the classes are pretty much balanced now. We got Fixers, Agents, and Advents kinda weak. But I play with one of each regularly.

Actually the game is pretty much almost completely balanced now.

I can't imagine the ungodly power of the MP if MOB's get nerfed. The Engineer gets it good in the rear. The Agent will probably get a boost to match the smack with the Nerf stick. The NT will be stronger. The Martial Artist willl be Godlike like the MP. The Trader now rules PvP all alone by himself with noone to fight.

My god, what a mess this is going to be. Unless we see some subtle changes put in to appease those crying for a Nerf, this is going to be chaos.

The drastic ideas that Gaute put forth in that initial feeler letter were so drastic there is no way they could be balanced without at least another half-year of power swings.

I simply don't understand why the don't fix the Fixer, Adv., Agent, and whoever else needs work just like they did with the Engineer, Metaphysicist, and Martial Artist. They are so close now. Let's not f up a good thing.

[_______________Orion]

Bionitrous, I enjoy reading your posts but you ignore certain truths when reaching your conclusions. For example:

I know there are characters much better equipped than I am. I also know that I have the same opportunity as them to have the same gear. The playing field is even AND there is opportunity to get better.

If you factor in exploiting, your statement becomes less valid, and ignoring the fact that rampant exploiting has effected AO is naieve. Guilds exist today that contain many exploited characters. These exploited characters then assist other guildmates. A player who has never had access to these same exploited skills suffers in comparison, and hence where is your notion of an equitable playing field?

I know how the game works and can appreciate what the designers were trying to do. They put together a beautiful system and are being tempted to dumn it down by the ignorant and/or lazy masses...

You express this opinion often. You assign talismanic qualities to the process of OE'ing hence putting it upon a sacred altar. I understand your fear of losing this b/c for you it seems that this is what makes the game challenging. I don't denegrate that, but you must realize that many people who are tired of OE'ing are not all dumb and lazy. While the process OE'ing in AO is more complex then other MMORPGS it still is not far above the capabilities of an intelligent simian. Once the process is learned, it simply becomes a matter of execution. The execution for many has become stale.

Not all of us who want to see changes in OE'ing desire a nerf them into uniformity approach. I'm just tired of AO's focus upon chasing statistics, and would rather spend my time strategizing against a class based upon it's unique abilities, and not upon an individuals access to exploits. Your attack skill ideas also seem very valid.

[Bionitrous]

Been here since the start. I know most of the exploits and used none of them. I despise those people. That's why I don't completely disagree with the proposed changes. I just would like them to affect the freaks of nature who obviously used bugs.

I'm gonna use Computer Literacy as an example rather than a weapon:

Example, use a Tutoring Device to get 6X64 NCU spaces on a lvl1 character who has 5 skill in CompLit. That character has 5/750 or about 7% of the skill required to use those items. I want his ass nerfed to hell.

However, I put in a full set of qlvl 200 CompLit implants (+207) at lvl125 and have the same 6x64 NCU space. I buffed my intelligence as much as I could (Odin's Eye), General Buff, Implants, Two Guns, plus the general CompLit buff.

Now, unbuffed I only have 475 CompLit. 475/750 that's only 63% of the requirements for these items. I feel that I should be rewarded for smart gameplay and having the resources and patience to do this.

Everything I did was valid and within the scope of the games rules. Yet half the people on the boards would say I'm an exploiter because I was able to do something they either didn't think of, didn't have the credits for, or did not want to spend the time to do. I could take those qvl 200 NCU's out right in front of you and put them in again. If I gave you the credits and the implants I used you could do it too. Yet, for some reason, there's something wrong with me having 384 free NCU's and you only having 218?

They want artificial rules brought into the game so that the game can bring me back down to their level. This is what I fight against.

This is the number I will settle for if the changes in the game's rules follow Gaute's basic outline. That 80% should be 60%. I'd live with that. If the game designers did not want a particular item to be able to be equipped by a certain level player, then the requirements should have been such so as to prohibit him from ever wielding it.

(geez, I've said it a million time, wielding should have been based on abilities like Agility and not skills. This issue would not even exist now)

I guess my biggest concern is that that number 80% does not allow the truly diligent and gifted players to shine while still punishing the exploiters and acting as a safety valve for poor programming or item design.

And Orion, I totally get where you're coming from. Unfortunately, you and I want different games. I'm an engineer and former object oriented coder by profession. I play this game for the challenge of beating the system legally and fairly and helping good online friends to do the same. I want to 'win' as far as my character is concerned and as far as my political in-game agendas are concerned. I too wish I could take my helmet off in the bar and down a few Plumbo-XXX's with you. Unfortunately, my desire for that does not outshine my desire for a game where there can be 'good' players and 'bad' players.

I have never put a single point into Map Navigation. I'll drop in my QLvL 200 Navigation implants when the time comes if I ever find a need. Already got most the maps I want just from abilities rising and 'free' skill points. What new player do you know who doesn't drop at least 130 points into Map Nav. I'm an exploiter, right? Hell, I've traveled the planet so much I don't NEED maps.

Is it fair that my lvl2 character knows the mission location and best route to get to EVERY mission location in Newland and Newland Desert simply by the coords in the mission description? Is this exploiting? Obviously this is not fair to the all those I hear /shouting 'wHO CNA TELL ME BORALIS IS?' How can we address this inequity?

[_______________Orion]

Unfortunately, you and I want different games. I'm an engineer and former object oriented coder by profession. I play this game for the challenge of beating the system legally and fairly and helping good online friends to do the same.

No, I do not believe that we desire different games, b/c we both seek achievement through merit. Perhaps where we differ, is that I believe a person should not have to be an engineer, or a statistician to achieve merit. There are ways for this to be implemented.

[____________Moodyman]

all a over equip nerf will do well is make MP's 3 times more effective - why i hear u all say???

Mps dont over equip (by that i meen non self buff) - we have the only Int/Psy buff so armr is easy - we buff our own pets - another easy - and while usin creation weapons again no need to over equip as its only there for 2 hours...... this meen we will be totall uneffected by the OE patch and become the uber prof everyone thinks we are now

[__________Merkaba715]

god, when will you guys stop bragging about the fact that you dont over-equip?

[____________Moodyman]

not braging - just pointing out MPs (enforcers too to a lesser asspect since they can buff themselves) will be far mopre effctive since this patch will not effect them - with this patch it will kill off all classes without self buffs - it will kill the Trader class as they will no long be needed - it will destroy the way the econemy works ie buffs for cash to help get into better armr/weapons/pets

if this gos ahead i can see the game loosing a good 20-30% of its players

[sheana]

Originally posted by Cyblade7
If you do a /played on your char you will see just how much game time you have on it. I have played my agent for 13 days over 3 months. Thats 13 24 hour days in-game. I am now lvl121.

If you have played this game for 6 months and are only lvl86, either you are a heavy RPer or just lazy. I RP alot, I also make sure to get at least one lvl a night or every other night.

I am not "twinked" either. This is my very first char. I knew no one here in AO and had to learn everything from trial and error. At lvl50 I had ql5 implnts in LOL!


.

Cy I cant believe you are saying this. You know you are not typical of the average rate of leveling for new players. <sigh>
good grief.

Ky

[XtroXtreme]

Originally posted by Moodyman
not braging - just pointing out MPs (enforcers too to a lesser asspect since they can buff themselves) will be far mopre effctive since this patch will not effect them - with this patch it will kill off all classes without self buffs - it will kill the Trader class as they will no long be needed - it will destroy the way the econemy works ie buffs for cash to help get into better armr/weapons/pets

if this gos ahead i can see the game loosing a good 20-30% of its players

MA can self buff, soldiers can sefbuff, traders can self buff and agents can self buff.
I guess that leaves out adventurer and docs, and they have been seen as weaker in that department for a long time.

Anyway, the weapons will only function at lower lvl as long as your skill has been lowered, and that should mean that deprave and ransac skills will be even more effective for traders then. So not only will traders alow us to equip stuff (and thereby let us forget upgrade for quite awile) but they will become better in combat.

I forsee a lot of new players staying in the game with this change. The only big problem then is to take care of griefers, but I guess some of them will be leaving when they are not uber newbie killers.

[____________Moodyman]

ok so there are a lot of classes that self buff what i ment was self buff to a large extent

also i ge tthe impresion most of that last part was aimed at me - ive made in my entire AO career 4 PvP kills (i mainly play pet classes and we arnt renowned for PvP skills) - i think OE is part of the game - it destroys the way is set up in one patch and would take a lot of work to put it back together in a way where it could compare to the way it is know - does that make me a greifer?

the problem with this whole issue is - this should have happened many many months ago long before the game went com - this is a fundamental change that will change the way the game plays totally - at this stage AO should have been thru all of those and only having small changes like prof fixes / bug fixes / new dungeons etc and to put this in now is a bad move

[____________Kikamiro]

Bionitrous, I must say it's very refreshing to read your comments in this thread. Some people fail to realize what a great system this game works on. Because of overequipping you can have an advantage over people even much higher level than you by putting in time and effort into researching your profession and keeping your character optimized. Not like in EQ or DAOC where whoever has the most levels is the best. UO had an interesting system but because of how you gained macroing became stupid, I remember power hours as well, hellish idea.

Just giving Bionitrous some kudos, well said my friend, I don't have anything to add to this thread because you already said it all.

- Whaam

[______________Eowyyn]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
then what are you complaining about? I have all the respect in the world for someone who chooses not to take the time to go implant designing, shopping, installing and also understands they'll be less than fully effective. I 100% agree with your right to choose priorities regarding your game time. You seem to understand the importance of taking care of your character. (Just try a set of fresh implants for a shocking revelation at increased power. Those 'best' nanos might not really be the 'best')

I can't deal with those who won't do the work and ALSO complain that the guy next to them is chewing through MOB's while they are struggling with greens.

If players want to RP and as such equip armor they can easily self-buff, I respect that. They want to be able to wear street clothes too. I respect those who make this choice doubly when they don't complain about the guy who spent 45 minutes just to get his helmet on.

If players don't want to be bothered with getting near the top of the best possible gear because they'd rather be out hunting, I can understand that. As long as they don't complain that one guy only two levels higher than them is soloing the same monster that takes their group of 4 to kill. Understand he has spent 10 million credits so far in his 60 levels on gear and buffs and you have spent 2 million and have 1.2 mill still saved for your Yalmaha.

If you are having fun then keep on doing it. If you aren't having fun because MOB's are too hard, then try getting prepared for the hunt. Alternately try killing those low greens. If the effort of properly equipping for the monsters you want to hunt is too much of a hassle, then maybe this isn't the game for you.

Most of my characters are equipped at about the 70-80% of max qlvl with respect to Armor and Implants. I admit to not wanting to spend the time to get nearer to 100% unless it's title cap time. NanoFormulas are always best uploadable and often more than best in hopes of teaming with an MP or Trader. At this level, I NEVER, EVER have a problem with the difficulty of the hunt.

I also don't begrudge those who I see around me who are willing to spend the gazillion credits for a +132 wrangle instead of the +74 wrangle I regularly get for free from semi-regular aquaintances. More power to them. I hope they are having fun too.

EDIT: If I sound harsh it's because I dread the day anything closely resembling the ideas set out by Gaute Godager ever come into play. I doubt anything of that magnitude will ever see the light of day considering the nice balancing job that FunCom has done and the steps already taken to remove the obvious and bizarre equipping routes present in the early stages of the game. Have I said that before. The 'over-equipping' mechanisms of last June/July/August are GONE. They simply don't exist anymore.

I remember when UO was fun when you got your first GM skill after several months and rall all round Brittania telling everyone of your accomplishment. Sure there were those who macro'd to GM. But, they are irrelevent in the planet we live on. (I mean REALLY irrelevent. Cheating at a computer game? sheesh). Then came the patch with the 'Power Hour' where you could get GM whatever you wanted in 7 days. I quit 20 days later.

I may be being selfish, but (to use combat classes as an example) I want AO to continue to have a range of player effectiveness from hardly able to cope with low-greens to able to solo low reds with an exhaustion of every trick in your book. I want the determining factor to be:

- Knowledge gained through experience in the game. Veterans should be rewarded.
- Knowledge gained through research and planning. Dedication should be rewarded.
- Time spent socializing and networking with other players. Positive social interaction should be rewarded.

I DON'T want someone who is lvl100 to automatically kill someone who is lvl80. I DON'T want leveling to be the end all and be all of this game. I wan that level 80 if he is smart, resourceful, and dedicated to be able to kill the less than optimal lvl 100/

Likewise I don't want the game to degrade to the point where it is given to the players on a silver platter to the point where a Trader is level 10 before he realizes he might have to upgrade his Solar Pistol.

=========================

Treatment Stacking - GONE (Biggest Change)
Trader CompLit Buffs - SELF ONLY (Almost as big)
Implant Stacking - GONE
Implant in HUD1 Slot - GONE
Tutoring Bug - GONE
Carrier Crafts - HAS ANYONE SEEN ONE LATELY?

Overequipping as we knew it is DEAD

Very well put. I don't always agree with you on things, but on this one, I do. Completely. Dedication and knowledge should be something that is praised and rewarded...not punished. If someone knows enough about the game to "chew thru mobs", then hell, LET EM. They deserve it.


Derritch - 92 Trader (Equipped w/ a ql168 Waltzing Queen)
Nanodood - 87 NT (OE-d...really....maybe not )

PS ..."Because of overequipping you can have an advantage over people even much higher level than you by putting in time and effort into researching your profession and keeping your character optimized. - Whaambulance" <- Again, another well put reason to keep OE.