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Thread: Solution to camping and lack of boss mob

  1. #61

    Want to know something?

    Why has none of my guild who are mostly 100+ not been in most dungeons. Because of the crap that Trigger and many others are trying to address.

    We get bored and have to do mission after mission because even that is preferrable to dealing with jackasses in dungeons or boss-campers. Camping is so detestable we'd rather be bored in our 200'th mission than enjoy any of the content that FunCom has provided.

    The question is how long will we continue to pay for the opportunity to do another mission.

    Individual team dungeons please. And I don't mean the proposed team missions.

  2. #62
    Ok, I'll give my 2 cents.

    It's possible to use both systems. Here's how: On the key generator, it would display "open" keys, aka people who went into a dungeon that want to see others come into the dungeon as well. Obviously there would be an option to create a new key, but also the option to create a duplicate of one of the open keys. The generate new could query the person getting the key if they wanted a "closed" key or an "open" key. Both arguments could then be included.

    The problem with the AC thing is that it has nothing to do with the item that is given away. So one person could theoretically go in and do the quest, give away the item and not be able to do it again. But their friend could go into the quest and get a duplicate of the same item. If the items don't deteriorate or become less usefull, the chain continues and pretty soon the item isn't rare any more. DAoC has this problem too. And kill X mob to get Y item is pretty boring in my book. Everyone learns about the connection, it leaks out to the internet, and then it's not rare anymore. To keep an item a "rare" item, it must be NODROP but must also be destroyable/sellable to vendor. This way when a player outgrows the item, he can dispose of it properly.

  3. #63
    Any solution would be something. Because if this game becomes Evercamp people will leave in droves. The greatest thing about this game is (for the most part) it's freedom of camping. But more and more camping is becoming the way. Please funcom inplement some method so that EVERYONE has a shot at a quest/rare monster/unique item/whatever. If you want to make it a rare item then make it a hard quest/mob/whatever. Don't make it a mob that spawns every other tuesday if it's a full moon.
    Oren "Ironheel" Fadri
    Clan Enforcer

  4. #64
    I have to admit, I really enjoyed the high level game of EQ. I was in a guild that regularly cleared NToV and Sleepers Tomb. There is little in the game I didnt accomplish, and I have fond memories of it. What I didnt like about it was the unneccesary competition for spawns, the camping, and what it did to rival guilds. It got to a point that whenever we zoned into ToV, we got petitioned right away by a younger guild who was trying to kill Aaryonar, the first dragon in NToV, just for being there. They never bothered to ask us what we were after, they just petitioned us. It sucked.

    If AO wants to implement a high end game similar to EQ's, then they need to improve upon what they did wrong, and stick with what they did right.

    What they did wrong was putting these things on a timer, and making them only spawn 1 to 2 times a week. That meant as soon as they popped, the race was on. The result was a lot of hostility between players over KSing, Training, leap frogging, camp stealing, etc... It just brought out the worst in everyone, not the best which is what you would hope competition would do. It sucks because both guilds were full of people who paid the same ammount of money to play and were capable of killing anything, yet one guild was full of people who were on east coast time and had the advantage time wise, and the other on west coast and never got a shot to do much of anything.

    What they did right was making the end game fights challenging and fun. Sure it took a long time to get to the actual fight, but it should be tough to get to a boss mob. The time it took in EQ would be nothing in AO because there is much less downtime.

    I think if AO addresses the wrongs and makes challenging, fun fights, they will have an end game that will be exciting and worth doing. EQ's was ok, if you were in a guild capable of controling everything, but if you werent it really sucked. I know a lot of people in NToV capable guilds that would have come over to AO in a second if there was an end game. Just from what I know, AO would do well if they had an end game that rivalled or was even better than EQs. I know a lot of former EQ players that were here hated EQs end game, mostly because they werent able to do it much. They also hated what it did to people. Fix that and you have the best of both worlds.


    Solutions:
    I really like the key holder mob idea. Make him a short repop mob, that is pretty tough (almost as tough as the boss to weed out the people who arent ready to face the boss yet) yet only drops the key to the boss. put him on a 15 minute timer so everyone can get to him. He should be non aggressive and near the front of the dungeon. After killing him, you get to go to the rest of the dungeon. The key itself spawns a seperate version of the dungeon with the boss mob always up, but the kicker is, the key only works once. To kill him again you gotta kill the key keeper. Thats fine if you care to do that, it doesnt infringe upon anyone elses fun in anyway.

    The fights themselves have to be challenging. There has to be a reason besides loot to drive people to fight. The fights that drop the best loot, should also be the toughest. They should take several times wiping out from the most capable guilds to figure out how to beat em. This seperates tier 1 guilds from tier 2 guilds (tier 1 - driven by the fight and will do whatever it takes to figure out how to win, tier 2 - capable of fighting but would rather wait to read the strategy on the web than finding out for themselves).

    There are some good ideas in this thread FunCom. Making a challenging end game will be a good thing for AO in my opinion.


    Lower level dungeons should have level limits. No reason for a level 150 player in a dungeon designed for levels 60 - 80. Farmers suck.

  5. #65

    Wink

    well just increase the variety of items the boss drops, and make some ultra rare and others more common then you still get rare items.
    I agree with the point about not seeing other people though but hey you can't have it both ways. maybe social or (antisocial area) up to a point inside where you then get your keys and the teams are on then on their own. but don't make things too complicated as it will never work out.

  6. #66

    Talking

    Bump. Down with mindless camping! Any idea to eliminate camping is a good idea.

  7. #67
    I've just read all the above, how about this:

    1. Open dungeon for ANY number of teams
    2. The MOBs respawn in the dungeon
    3. There are a certain number of items required to enter the boss camber
    4. Boss chamber is multi-phase, like existing missions
    5. The "key" items mentioned above are dropped by random MOBs, and require a certain amount of luck (and time) to find

    This should keep us all busy!
    Gimme sammich!!1

    Reborn Sammich

  8. #68

    This is all great.

    My favorite of all the suggested ideas is a key generator outside the dungeon, requiring a certain credits to buy the key, and the boss mob always having the rare item, so you know what you are paying and working for. Take a team, take out the boss, and forget about other guilds taking your item.

    From what was said about team missions of RK2, I guess this change would make dungeons and team missions very similar, but this way you know what you are working for.

  9. #69
    Bumpity-bump! If there's an argument for why the spawncamping shouldn't be changed, let's hear it.

  10. #70

    Re: Managing Rarity via REAL difficulty

    Originally posted by Bionitrous

    As an example, if there were some new item that went in an NCU slot that increased the duration of NanoFormulas by 50% they could simply put it on a MOB with a 24hr respawn time. This is frigging garbage design that a half-assed child would think of.

    Instead, they could be intelligent and allow access to the item to anyone who is willing to spend some time PLAYING the game.

    1. Talk to NPC Computer Merchant. He mentions an 'associate' who has told him of rumors of a shipm...
    yeah, this would be a lot of fun to do, hope it will happen sometime

  11. #71
    I would love if they removed all camping for "boss kills"

    But I can't see how it ever would work..

    Should a guild just be able to kill Tarasque(dragon in Camelot) 10 times in a row and everyone get the loot they want...what would that do to the "rare market".

    If my guild could kill Tarasque 1 time without problem (and we can do that without any of us killed) we could do it 20 times and get all we wanted and sell all the rest to people that couldn't kill him...

    I don't like camping, but I don't see any other way so the item the mob drops are really rare...

    I think that the people/guild that do most damage to a mob should get loot, not everyone that want to have it..
    Azzazzimon
    ICQ: 419860

    Clan Apocalypse - The guild for models

    Account closed.

  12. #72
    It's rather simple Azzazzimon, rather then making an item rare because it drops once every third tuesday if the planets are all inalignment you make it so that there is an actual challenge to getting the item. Anyone who can get past the challenge can have the item but make the challenge of getting the item very difficult. That'll solve the problem right there. And if you're worried that once people get high enough in lvl that they can easily finish some of the quests for unique items you make them no drop.

    That's just one of a thousand possibilities besides camping, which BTW is what made me and several of my friends drop Evercamp like a bad habit. Camping is boring as hell. And who's going to pay 13 bucks a month to be bored?
    Oren "Ironheel" Fadri
    Clan Enforcer

  13. #73
    Screw the rare market. Nothing adds more ill will to a communal game than having items that segregate the society into 'haves' and 'have nots'. FunCom would be wise to ensure 'equal opportunity' for every item in the game. Take the rare market and urinate on it put it in a bag with dog crap in it and light it on fire on Verant's front porch.

    Getting a 'useful' item should entail difficulty proportional to how 'useful' it is. The one caveat should foremost and alwayst be that every single player in the game of equal character skill should have an equal shot at obtaining the item. Camping leaves about 95% of the playerbase out of the mix. We end up with 5% (most, but not all, of them jackasses) hoarding the useful items.

    We do not want items that are envied because there are only 8 of them in the game. Most paying customers would rather not have these items in the game at all. You end up with the starbellied Rubi'Kans and those who have none.

    We want items that are envied because it took 8 hours of trying to beat down a tough sonofabiatch to pry the item out of his dieing hands. Likewise we don't want Mr. Level 200 to be handing them out like candy to all the new guildies so we request they be nodrop. Even better, we hope and pray, is that these items be tied to quests that a character can only receive once in his career. That way one could eliminate the NODROP tag and allow that character to sell or give away the item only once.

    We've said it again and again. We don't want _useful_ items that are rare simply for the sake of being rare. If you want to have a pair of Red-tinted sunglasses that drops off every 3000th Blubbag, then fine. No problem. They don't change the power balance of the game.

    But, if you got an item that adds +22 to the pet creation skills of a Metaphysicist, you had damn well better make sure that every single Metaphysicist has equal opportunity to _attempt_ to get the item. This item provides more than a FOUR LEVEL difference in pet creation. This item is completely unbalancing with respect to the members of certain guilds basically being assured a shot at it and the remaining 95% of the paying customers having to resign themselves to never ever ever even seeing the MOB that spawns it alive much less outgunning an uber-guild with 6 soldiers backed up by six healers to get the item.

    A rare market is a wonderful thing. It was a fantastic element to the Ultima Online gaming experience. You know what was prized? A marble table, some lemons, a side of ham. These items were valued because they were rare. People were proud of their collections. I urge FunCom to add Candy Apple Red Yalmahas and Purple-tinted sunglasses. However, an item that gives the equivalent of more than four levels of pet-creation ability MUST be equally available to anybody who is of the appropriate level and is up to the challenge.

    And camping is NOT a challenge.


    Current AO 'rare' items <------- I poop on you

  14. #74
    Originally posted by Bionitrous
    But, if you got an item that adds +22 to the pet creation skills of a Metaphysicist, you had damn well better make sure that every single Metaphysicist has equal opportunity to _attempt_ to get the item. This item provides more than a FOUR LEVEL difference in pet creation. This item is completely unbalancing with respect to the members of certain guilds basically being assured a shot at it and the remaining 95% of the paying customers having to resign themselves to never ever ever even seeing the MOB that spawns it alive much less outgunning an uber-guild with 6 soldiers backed up by six healers to get the item.
    anyone can kill him, the problem is the drop rate on the shirt is pittiful.

  15. #75
    Last 20 times I checked, I could not kill him because he was not there. All I ever saw was groups of people waiting for him.

    If I get to lvl200 I will still not be able to kill him because he will not be there or there will be people ahead of me 'in line' to kill him.

    If I get to level 8000 I will still not be able to kill him.

    If I am level ten million and sign on next Thursday, I will not be able to kill him because there was some unemployed kid who stood in front of his monitor watching porn on the DVD and drinking Mt. Dew for 22 hours who just killed him. So this malignant bastard is a 'better player' and deserves to be rewarded with an extremely powerful item?

    Not anybody can kill him. If this were true, I'd have killed him and have at least a flamethrower to show for it. I'll make a point to log on tonight (lord knows that's getting more difficult by the day) and fly by his hangout again. Maybe they changed something where it's possible to kill the bastard.

    In any event, the current system is pissing me off. Do we want a game whose 'challenges' piss people off?

  16. #76

    Unhappy

    hmmmm yup.

    Same goes for the npc missions. The thing is, how are you supposed to find out what they are if the guy you need to speak to is never there. The only way is from others who know already. Which kind of stops any exploring and investigating for yourself. So you'll end up having to keep an eye out for people sitting around in groups that could be camping someone and when you spot such a gathering hanging around to see what appears and what happens etc. Or trawlinfg through tthe forums looking for info. Not my idea of fun and doesn't seem right to me somehow, putting the limitations on the player and not the npc/mob etc seems to me to be the only sensible way to resolve these issues but i assume not the easiest hence the unfortunate situation we have now.

  17. #77
    Originally posted by Bionitrous
    Last 20 times I checked, I could not kill him because he was not there. All I ever saw was groups of people waiting for him.

    If I get to lvl200 I will still not be able to kill him because he will not be there or there will be people ahead of me 'in line' to kill him.

    If I get to level 8000 I will still not be able to kill him.

    If I am level ten million and sign on next Thursday, I will not be able to kill him because there was some unemployed kid who stood in front of his monitor watching porn on the DVD and drinking Mt. Dew for 22 hours who just killed him. So this malignant bastard is a 'better player' and deserves to be rewarded with an extremely powerful item?

    Not anybody can kill him. If this were true, I'd have killed him and have at least a flamethrower to show for it. I'll make a point to log on tonight (lord knows that's getting more difficult by the day) and fly by his hangout again. Maybe they changed something where it's possible to kill the bastard.

    In any event, the current system is pissing me off. Do we want a game whose 'challenges' piss people off?
    I have most of the unique items I want and I have NEVER camped a spawn for more than 30 min.

    All uniques respawn at server up so just count 18 hours forward and go to the place, buff up and wait the 15 min and the mob will spawn, I suggest you bring a team cuz sometimes other people want the item too so you have to outdamage them.

    Many of the uniques are still there 30-60 min after they spawned, only a few get killed fast and everyone have same chance to kill it, if they only get a good high damage team together so they can compete with the others.
    Azzazzimon
    ICQ: 419860

    Clan Apocalypse - The guild for models

    Account closed.

  18. #78
    You're missing the point Azzazzimon. People want to get rare and powerful items by over coming adversity and challenge in the game. People want to find rare and powerful items by completing dangerous quests and killing powerful monsters. People don't want to get an item because they know what time the server reset is and they know the spawn time. There's no challenge there. Anyone with a watch can manage that and a brain dead hamster can camp. A game is fun when there's a challenge and a reward at the end. Camping is not fun, it is not challenging, and unless you have no life what so ever rarely can a person camp long enough to get the actual item.

    I'll say it again. Camping is what made me leave Everquest, please Funcom rid AO of camping!
    Oren "Ironheel" Fadri
    Clan Enforcer

  19. #79
    Having dabbled briefly with DAoC, I think the method used in that game to get items is better than used in AO. Speaking to NPC's and saying particular words to them, then having to travel to another location and find a moving NPC, then perhaps killing a respawning mob (random) to get an item.. You get the gist. There should be no requirement to camp, as the mobs/NPC's you need to interact with should not despawn.

    Whoever came up with the idea of an NPC spawning, handing out a quest to ONE person who has to camp in line for them, then despawning for 18 hours needs their nuts chopped off.
    Gimme sammich!!1

    Reborn Sammich

  20. #80

    Yes ... nut cutting .... hmmm

    Anyway on a more serious note. I remember one of the worst times I ever had in DAoC was doing some quest where me and my pick-up group had to wait 45 minutes (!!!! OMG). For some monkey-faced King Mukluk or something to spawn. We were all *****ing because we coulda been playing. Instead we were all just *****ing at the game.

    Now, six of us got his head after the wait (which seemed like an eternity). Could you imagine if we _each_ had to wait for his damn head? That would be almost AO-like.

    Anyhow, my point is that one of the worst, if not THE worst and most memorable moments in my DAoC career was having to wait 45 minutes for a monkeyboy to spawn.

    Right now my list of all-time low moments in AO happens to contain sitting in the lab director's office for 90 minutes (with a spring training game on the tube) before suddenly realizing I had a life and flipping my finger at the screen and logging out of the game.

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