CaptFallout and the Athen Accords

[_______________Unity]

***This entire posting is out of character***

I know this is a "Role Playing" section of the boards. but I thought it would get the most impact here.

I put that up there to make sure you understood where, what I am about to say is comming from. I don't particulary care for roleplaying when an indiviual constantly flames and bashes other people. Just because he is pissed. CaptFallout has made it his PERSONNAL vendetta to drag my Clans name and ANY one involved with the Athen Accords into the dirt. If he is roleplaying it, he's sure got me fooled. Fallout has took this from being in-game fun to real life. With everything he has posted since he was beaten in pvp at MMD. Go ahead Fallout rant, whine, moan, complain, ask that this thread be deleted. I don't care!! Others will more than likely say that I am the one taking this to RL. Well I do when someone publicly bashes other people. Yes this is a free country, and yes there is freedom of speech. But there is a time, when a line, must be drawn. The laws of a civilized sociaty pertain here as they do anywhere else. If you don't understand why I am posting this. Go take a look at the threads he has posted in the: Anarchy Online Bulletin Board > Role-Playing > Organization Politics section. So grow up Fallout. You got beat, big deal. Live with it. And stop harrasing us.

So flame away or actually post some thought out comments.

I'm done.....

[________________mege]

and just what are you doing? cant prove yourself so you have to try and drag down fallout. boo-hoo... im not saying that he was 100% in the right with what he's saying, but this seems awful 2-faced and hypocritical of you.

oh, and soilder is spelt Soldier... maybe look at changing your sig file...

Mege
M.O.T.H.E.R.

[______________Barron]

Mege, Fallout has never been in the right when it comes to his personal and unwarranted attacks against anything and everything that Div9 does.

No matter what the issue (especially topics here on the boards), he always feels the need to step in and throw out some negative post in response to a Div9ers post...even if his post does nothing but attack Div9.

I honestly dont know what his problem is...maybe he wasnt breast fed as a baby. Or perhaps he feels that somehow everything Div9 does should be credited to him in some way...like we stole his ideas or something. In fact, he is the one who stole ideas from us...case in point, his quasi-recent attempt at his own OT Council...he posted a link to it once somewhere (in the old forums I think), and upon looking at his "mandate", I could immediately tell that what he had done was basically copied Div9's Galway Pact, with some wording and phrasing changed..but the basics were still the same. Curious that he chose to wait until after we had made the Pact public before his "idea" saw the light of day...personally I think he's just pissed that we had official sanction for that event...

Maybe if his posts werent always some sort of attack on us, it wouldnt bother us so much..but there has yet to be a post from him in response to one of our posts that hasnt been inflamatory.

Trust me on this..we didnt fire the first shot in all this..he did. We've stood by until lately, merely shrugging his attacks off as someone's insane ravings..but he's pushed all of us too far.

Next time there's an OT leaders meeting of any sort, keep an ear out..I can guarantee you it wont take Fallout long before he's ranting and raving about Div9...

[_________CaptFallout]

I have a good record of not throwing the first stone. I am sorry if you or your guild feels "under attack" for wrong reasons, but you have earned it.

A few of your members have gone against this widely (over) publicized Athens Accord and Omni-Tek guilds are still supporting your actions.

In the past, I have had problems with Opposing Force and they were all legitimate complaints. GMs didn't show because you were fairly fighting in 2HO, they came because many of you were cheating.

I have no problems with Div9, at least until a few weeks ago. Barzillai has trained his members to attack whenever they see my name or my allies. At one time I was being insulted (very non-rp insults) by three or four members of the guild and their leader.

Barzillai has personally offended me recently (with some very offensive nicknames he finds to be "cute") and has proven to be no more than your average board flamer.

I do say things people dislike. What I don't do is begin personal attacks.

My problem is restraining myself from responding to those who feel the need to insult me. I have talked with my guild, and some guild leaders, and I have promised to avoid even responding to flames from the less intellegent.

I have a feeling your opinion of me will change, mainly since you will not be seeing me "returning" the insults back at the originator.

There is no reason to target me. Please, target my thoughts.

Why am I wrong in thinking Opposing Force has broken the Athens Accord?

Why am I wrong in thinking Omni-Tek guilds who support Opposing Force after they attacked Omni-Tek employees are traitors?

Why should Barzillai be able to call me names like a child?


I wouldn't have a problem with any of this "bickering" if you were able to provide some sort of proof to this, more than "Just because I say so" that has been the MO of most of these people who are claiming I'm wrong.

[Utildai]

I must say, this was the first sensible post I have read of yours. As you can see by my 2 whole posts here, I don't usually have much to say. Because basically I dont care what you or others think about OpFor or the choices it makes. We make those choices for the betterment of the clan and for freedom for all citizens on RK. If that means attacking you, an OT clan, a Clan clan, or what have you, then so be it. However, it WONT be by grid camping, attacking from a 100% zone into a 25% zone or anything of the like.

It will be by calling all Athen Accord Members to the area to defend it however, regardless of who is attacking it. REGARDLESS. THAT, is peace at all costs. Irregardless of wheather you agree with the Athen Accords or not is not the issue here. What is the issue is that you *CLAIM* we have done all these things, but yet, as you so desparately seem to want, provide no proof. Until then, you have zero right, in RL, or in an RP sense to bash anyone, other than in your own personal opinion.

[______________Barron]

Fallout, this all goes back more than a few weeks and you know it.

The first time I remember you hopping on your anti-Div9 wagon was around the time the Galway Pact was being signed. At that meeting, you were very vocal about your opposition to it...but that wasnt even the bad part...you continued to harrangue (sp?) all of the attendees with your inflmatory comments. The leaders that had gathered to sign the Pact very kindly gave you some time to voice your opinions before the actual signing...and if I remember right, you spoke your peace after I said a few words (lol..remembers my fubar'd script with the inadequate delays in it). And every single time you had an audience (especially at OT faction meetings), you'd just start right up again. If you had just let it go after the Pact signing, no one would have cared...but you just kept at it, both in game and here on the boards. I've lost count of the times you've posted some scathing comment in reply to a Div9ers own reply...and 10 times out of 10, it was nothing but an attack either on that person or on Div9...your comments didnt even bother to address whatever topic was actually being discussed.

Through all that's been said, I can proudly say at least we've never made anything up about you or what you do. You however just seem to love to make anything up about us you like and pass it off as the truth...we're never involved in any battles, we supply clanners, we give clanners PvP intel, we're working against OT interests...absolutely none of which has ever had any grain of truth to it. We are trying to make Rubi-ka a better planet for everyone..be they clan or OmniTek. We are working within the au****es of the ICC Charter and the Tir Accords, which are both official OT policies. You, however, are deliberately, and with malice aforethought, acting against the direct orders of Philip Ross, your frikkin BOSS!! HE was the one who enacted the amnesty (which is an extention of the CEASE FIRE he outlined in the Tir Accords). And with both the Galway Pact AND the Athens Accords, we are trying to help those 2 mandates along.

Yes, we do realize that the Accord may not work out in the end...and if that's the case, so be it...we tried, we failed, we try something else. But just because things are still tense around the planet, that doesnt mean that anything has failed...yet. Things like this naturally take some time for both sides to adjust...just look at ancient Earth and the long drawn out conflict between the Israeli's and the Palestinians...decades went by with failed attempts at peace...but finally, in the end, that peace was achieved...that is the same thing we're working for here...although we do hope it doesnt take decades this time.

All you seem to care about is yourself. You refuse to listen to any opposing position, and if someone *dares* go against you, you attack them. Yours is not the only viewpoint..and believe it or not, there are a LOT of people with some damn good ideas out there...and like it or not, quite a few of those people are in Div9. All of us, most especially Barzillai, are putting our necks and reputations on the line here in order to make the planet both profitable and a safe and nice place to live. We have never once claimed to be superior to anyone or any group. And we never will...we're just people trying to do the jobs we're trained for in the best way we know how. We're taking risks..yes. But the rewards for those risks is worth it, I think. Profit and glory for OmniTek, and a safe Rubi-ka for all.

[_________CaptFallout]

Just for the record, I never attended the Galway Pact signing.

I am currently attempting to ignore any and all "flames" in hopes of preventing myself from angering people I shouldn't.

If someone posts something to insult me on this forum I will ignore it. If someone says something of an insult in the leaders channel I will ignore them.

I don't tend to get myself in trouble, but I tend to not walk away from even petty arguements.

So if I don't respond to the insults, I won't have the ability to insult back (for the most part) Not responding will also anger the insulter because their sole purpose is to envoke some sort of response in their target. It validates them and makes them feel successful.


Ignoring is bliss.

[Tricia50]

Anyone posting OOC, especially on this forum, about these personality conflicts needs to step back from the game.

Keep the slagging and fragging in-game and in-character. If you can't handle it, don't play. If it violates Funcom ToS, report it.

If someone's picking on you, your org, or any in-game events you've held ... so what?

If it doesn't violate the standards Funcom has set, deal with it yourself. If it does, let them deal with it.

Any further out-of-character bickering in here just makes everyone involved look bad.

[________________mege]

In character:

"fallout ... im not saying that he was 100% in the right with what he's saying"

I'm trying to stay as objective here as possible with any situation, Div9 to me just seems in the wrong... you completely go against all that OMNI stands for and just glare at CptFallout like he's some sort of traitor. OMNI-Tek is giving clanners amnesty, and allowing them to join the corporation - this is just like a trial period...

This seems to translate to you at Div9 "oh, we are really just clan members... let's go help the real clan members kill some OMNI citizens." Keep in mind that I read the events at many news agencys like Basher and Stratics - this seems to be the fair minded decision.

Am I wrong with saying that? or should i just bow down and believe Div9 "just because." Make me believe if you think you're so right. That's a challange.

[______________Barron]

Actually Mege, we're not going against anything OT stands for...we're actually trying to further 2 very important documents..the ICC lease and the Tir Accords...someone posted a link to the official story item on the AO site in one of these threads somewhere...

There IS an official cease-fire handed down by Philip Ross in the Tir Accords...and someone (Davyn I think) posted some pertinent info from the ICC lease...take a look through the other threads about this for it...

So everyone promoting wiping out the clans, yelling and screaming that we are the traitors are in fact the traitors themselves...WE are the ones trying to follow the mandates of our own CEO.

[________________mege]

Barron... So...
What does OT stand for?
What do the clans stand for?

I love how you guys jump up and down on the ICC lease... we're not voilating it by advocating the removal of the amnesty. We're not persecuting them... they have complete means and right to join the corporation (persecute implys that we are blaming them for something they cannot help). If they want to support OMNI-Tek then they can do it as an employee, else they are in violation because they are interfering with our Notum exports and we have a right to protect our interests.

Hmmm... how does the Tir Accords and the Athens Accords work then? Sure, Mr. Ross tells us not to kill clanners - we dont. We're presuring him to change his decision soon. What the Tir Accords do not even imply is that we hold hands with the barbarians to the North and go on join ventures against OMNI employees. The cease-fire is not a blanket "accept every clanner with a smile on your face while they invade your land" order - I am sure. The cease-fire just means that OMNI-Tek corporation is not devotion resources on an open offensive against the clan members. The juggernaut hasn't been let loose in a while, and neither has the OMNI air patrols. Think about what the clanners have done, do you really want to dance with them in Baboons knowing that one of them might have killed your grandfather? or don't you care?

I have high respect for Phillip Ross but that does not mean that I have to agree with every single thing that he says, if I act in direct opposition to what he says - that's a different story. So... what are you going to do with the murderous clanners that you've made friends with? Try and take the corporations power yourself? Blah.

[Blyzzard]

So Medge let me see if I understand you. You respect the CEO Mr. Ross, but think you can do his job better than he can?

To show him that he's wrong you'll ignore, no deliberately act against his wishes till he see that his decision is wrong. Because you have better intell than he does, have better decision making AIs to help come up with a plan of action than he does, and just all around know better how to handle Rubi-Ka and intergalactic politics better than he does.

Medge you are acting way over your pay grade. What usually happens to those that don't do what their boss tells them to do? "This is to inform you that your services are no longer required by this company. Have a good day." Think about it.

[________________mege]

I dont act against his wishes... i speak out against them. BUT... at the same time im not taking what he is saying to the extreme and going on a love fest with clanners. What are you going to do and what are you going to say once the war starts back up "oh lets just be friends" as the whole planet is at war. Ross has issued a general Cease-Fire and Amnesty. NOT open peace talks and forward friendliness - there's a difference.

And dont talk to me about pay grades... you're claiming that you know what he's thinking just the same as me. I am taking a stand which backs the OMNI-Tek ideals... not the current president's wishes - but at the same time I am an OMNI-Tek employee and I am not going to defy my boss with action (that's treacherous).

[_____________Zardosz]

QUOTE]And dont talk to me about pay grades... you're claiming that you know what he's thinking just the same as me. I am taking a stand which backs the OMNI-Tek ideals... not the current president's wishes - but at the same time I am an OMNI-Tek employee and I am not going to defy my boss with action (that's treacherous).[/QUOTE]

Dearest Mege,

I have been to Omni cities, and seen the signs, "be quiet", no?

Public proclamations ARE actions, in case you didn't realize that.
You ARE commting treason, by your PUBLIC stance against your leader(s).

Hmm. As far as I understand OmniTek, you people go by a STRICT
code of class/paygrade/whatever. Even your words against the commander here, should be considered treasonous.

Speaking out against one's superior in such a situation, is considered a DIRECT act of INSUBORDINATION, is it not? By
proclaiming in public (this board) that you disagree with CEO Ross's decisions, I would see as a direct attempt to undermine
the confidence of the people in their leader, and employer.

We're not persecuting them... they have complete means and right to join the corporation (persecute implys that we are blaming them for something they cannot help).

Think about what the clanners have done, do you really want to dance with them in Baboons knowing that one of them might have killed your grandfather?

This would be a good example of persecution, would it not?
We cannot help that some have killed in the name of what
they believed. What we can do, is try to make sure that it does
not have to continue. THIS is what the Athens Accord stands for.

Not all clanners are "barbarians" as you say, just as not all OT
employees are. I have stood side by side with OT's that
came to defend our lands against the Borg. These people bring
honor to your corporation, as they defend the citizens of RubiKa.
I have tried to assist your people, my fellow citizens in the Borg attack on your HQ,only to be killed as I exited the Grid by NEWBIE00 and AGEOP.
I have fought mutants in Lush Fields, side by side with OmniSoldiers - not as members of two different "sides", but as
fellow citizens of a proud world!

Once your superiors, including the powerful Mr Ross, see how you
speak out against them, and their decisions....Once they see how
you attempt to undermine their authority, and confindence with
your fellow employess....I should expect you to be released from
their service, or AT LEAST to be demoted to cleaning the stalls at
the bronto pens at Harrys.

Perhaps you would like to belong somewhere that it IS allowed
to speak your mind about your leaders? I will have your clan
application waiting outside the grid to Athens West, our proud
Homeland, once you receive your termination notice. We will welcome you with open arms, as a fellow citizen. Hopefully, time
will heal the wounds that cause you so much hatred. Come live
amongst others that are proud to be able to speak their mind....

We will be awaiting your arrival

TaohJones
Opifex/Trader
Member - Clan Opposing Force
Member - Athens Accord
Citizen of Rubi-Ka

[________________mege]

You speak really uniquely for a clan member, you almost sound compassionate (a trait that i lack to see in many clan members).

If you want to get in an argument of who is more right, or more wrong... I can clearly show that the OMNI-Tek factions that signed the Athens Accord are in contempt of OMNI-Tek ideals with one simple statement: "Ceace-fire means non-agression, NOT peace." I am not attacking clan members, but I advocate not holding their hand and siding with known terrorists.

The reason that you are a clan member is because you oppose OMNI-Tek, what in that is there not to understand? The rebels rebel against what OMNI-Tek's interests are on this planet - NOTUM. Sure, you all may not have one supreme leader... you may think that you're independant, but there is a common goal that you all must identify with at some point. If you really wanted to stay out of this fight, then why arent you a neutral?

If you want to support the Notum collection efforts, join OMNI-Tek. Don't try and fake an alliance with OMNI-Tek... OpFor and Div9 and all of the Athen Accord members need to think about their ideals - what is OMNI-Tek, and what are the clans?

OMNI = Notum
Clans = no Notum

OMNI and clans dont mix... those who try, are deviating from their central power - weither it's the great corporation or the coucil of idiots.

If you want another objective example that you can relate with (please keep the sidings and moral descriptions of this example aside - that's not the point). Think about the Nazis and Jews of a really long time ago.

Nazis = cleanse the earth, so there's only the perfect human (blonde haired, blue eyed "perfection," as it were)
Jews = brown haired brown eyed "inperfection," as it were

Peace between them is just not possible on a fundamental level, and once you both sides throw away their fundamental differences they can no longer associate themselves with their "so called" alignment. Why can't you see this? Nice try at peace... does this mean that you're going to respect our Stret Outposts? Not invade our cities and use our marketplaces? Not use our resources and hunting areas? You could very well join the corporation and gain these advantages, but for some reason you choose not too... why is that? You're willing to say that you have a "peaceful" agreement with an OMNI-Tek faction, but your core stands against everything that OMNI stand for... I cannot believe this. You sit side by side forming your 4th group of inhabitants on this planet (OMNI, Clan, Neutral, AthensAccordMembers).

[______MistressSheigh]

Mr. Medge,

Therein is your mistake.

You say:

Omni = notum
Clans = No notum

This is inaccurate.

Please let me use your exaple to help you out.

Omni = PROFIT at all costs(notum+interstellar business)

Clan = FREEDOM(The ability to MINE NOTUM free of Omni constraints+the right to coose OUR OWN freely elected government without OMNI interference)

The clans aren't here to "DESTROY OMNI" as many people (including some unaffiliated clan members, unfortunately) think. It would be insane for us to even try. OmniTek has intertsellar law and the ICC on their side. (In the form of the planetary lease and their monopoly on notum SALES rights.) All we want is the ability to work and live how we choose. All we demand is the right to choose our own planetary government, elected by the CITIZENS OF RUBI-KA, not some executive board on Omni Prime. Those of us who live on our lovely planet get to mine notum and either sell it to OmniTek or use it ourselves, and get to live WHERE we choose... and HOW we choose. Is that so wrong? I don't think so, and I'M willing to FIGHT for it.

I hope this clears things up for you. Thanks.

Jena "Sheigh" Denick
Soldier
Clan Opposing Force
Rubi-Ka 1

http://www.opfor.i8.com

[_________CaptFallout]

Clan want the ability to MINE NOTUM free of Omni constraints+the right to coose OUR OWN freely elected government without OMNI interference

Ah, so you guys lease the planet now?

So you have paid the ICC to share mining rights of Notum with Omni-Tek? No? So why are you even debating this?

Pay the ICC with your own money to mine your own notum, on your own planet

The ICC has not promised all those that come the Rubi-Ka anything more than the freedom to not be killed for no reason

Many clans have attacked Omni-Tek employees due to their jealousy of our success.

Leave if you don't like it. We did not come to this planet to support lazy people who want free money such as yourself (ah, so you want us to share Notum with you because you *say* so?)

Freeloader.

[Blyzzard]

*Stunned silence fills the room*

/me thinks My God, I agree with CaptFallout on a post.



Well said Capt Fallout!
100% on target!

[________________mege]

The clans aren't here to "DESTROY OMNI" as many people (including some unaffiliated clan members, unfortunately) think. It would be insane for us to even try. OmniTek has intertsellar law and the ICC on their side. (In the form of the planetary lease and their monopoly on notum SALES rights.) All we want is the ability to work and live how we choose. All we demand is the right to choose our own planetary government, elected by the CITIZENS OF RUBI-KA, not some executive board on Omni Prime. Those of us who live on our lovely planet get to mine notum and either sell it to OmniTek or use it ourselves, and get to live WHERE we choose... and HOW we choose. Is that so wrong? I don't think so, and I'M willing to FIGHT for it.

Is that so wrong? I don't think so, and I'M willing to FIGHT for it.

So go fight, don't distract OT employees with your "Freedom" propaganda. OT has existed for almost 30000 years, over 25000 years on Rubi-Ka - don't you think that Omni-Tek is doing something right?

And btw - the clans were formed to oppose the "bad" mining conditions. When in fact it was the miners sloppy performance that created the conditions. So, the clanners were formed by a bunch of ignorant miners that blame others for their problems... sound familiar?

And my name is M-E-G-E (no D) please use my correct name from now on

(OOC - watch the intro movie to refresh your memory on how/why the rebel clans formed)

[Tricia50]

Originally posted by Wyndrunneer
Well said Capt Fallout!
100% on target!

This is why there can be no peace, no amnesty, no ludricous Athen Accord between clan and OT.

This Division 9 tool of Omni-Tek agrees that OT has sole dominion over Rubi-Ka and all the lives on it because of a contract granted by the ICC.

Originally posted by CaptFallout
Pay the ICC with your own money to mine your own notum, on your own planet ... Leave if you don't like it. We did not come to this planet to support lazy people who want free money such as yourself ...

This is the mindset the clans' glorious Athen Accord ally agrees with.

You who are so willfully ignorant of the misdeeds of your corporate "family" deserve no explanation, no pardon, no quarter given. Right-thinking rebels all over Rubi-Ka will relentlessly drive you back into your fortress cities and then off world, into space, back to the prison bosom of your mother Omni-Tek.

We fight for freedom--it is Omni-Tek that fights for money. We fight for the right to live lives free of ceaseless toil for the galactic bully called Omni-Tek. We fight to unshackle the world many of us were brought to under duress, the world many of us were born or created on. We fight for justice, we fight for an end to slavery, we fight for liberty.

And we will win.