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Thread: The Role of the Neutrals

  1. #141

    I understand

    Agreed about the double risk thing, but its a technicality. I think for roleplaying purposes we should be able to get caught in the crossfire like that and should have to tread carefully into dangerous areas. Just my opinion, though. I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating the tab thing. It's just a convenience for the attackers and removing it wouldn't prevent them from attacking us.

  2. #142


    You're right it's just a technical matter, just wanted to point it out. The only thing that bugs me about the tab is that it is used as a reason to attack. You rarely see someone saying 'I'll kill you 'cause your clan/neutral/omni'. As a matter of fact the only reason for most people to attack neuts is because they are on the tab list and not for RP reasons. So we can argue for months about the meaning of neuts being on the tab list it won't matter because it hasn't a meaning for those using it to target us. It's basically 'your on my tab list so I'll shoot you anyway, you being Clan, Omni, Neut or Leet I don't care'.

  3. #143

    About the TAB targetting

    The role playing aspect of this game has degenerated to nothingness. This is mostly FunCom's fault. They have provided no 'in-game' reason for Clan to hate Omni and vice-versa. The playstyles for both factions were described as VERY different.

    If you were to choose to play an Omni character you were supposed to follow a specific regimen. You were supposed to acta a certain way, dress a certain way, listen to orders, and generally follow the company line. Heh.

    If an Omni were able to TAB-target another Omni they would shoot in an instant. People just don't care anymore. As a Neutral, I was teamed with some Omni friends for a hunt of some monsters. Two others we waited for joined the group. As the action slowed, they killed me causing me to lose half a million experience. Reason? They were 'bored'. So kill someone who was fighting by their side and healing them 20 minutes ago.

    PvP in this game is a degenerate sore on the game as a whole. I am pretty sure it was allowed as an aid to being able to tell the story effectively. Unfortunately, the game technically cannot handle proper PvP in the way that is needed to assist the (non-existent) story.

    Thus PvP has turned into immature players shooting first (cuz' you'll win 90% of the time) at whoever appears on their TAB target.

    I would propose to remove EVERYONE (Clan/Omni/Neutral) from the TAB targetting except monsters and NPC's. If you want to kill someone then you best have a reason. Either try to shoot at them or bring up their information.

    At a minimum we must remove the Neutrals from this list to stop the grief of players who kill Neutrals just because they 'can' and to prevent mistakes that likewise happen all too often.

    I have no problem with people who hunt Neutrals because they 'want' to. Go right ahead. Go find some Neutrals and kill them. Just remember as an Omni employee (to use one side as an example) you are disobeying the desires of Phillip Ross, you are likely in violation of the Tir Accord, and are probably ruining the day of a real life person who has no bad feelings toward your employer.

  4. #144

    Lightbulb All Neutrals need

    I was a neutral for a while until i realised where i was geographicly, KNEE-DEEP IN CLAN TURF. How can neutrals be 'Neutral' if they are so heavily leaned on by the clans? As a low level neutral, i got shot by both sides. I got killed a number of times deep in clan turf because of the guards (namely athens).

    Neutrals need 3 things:
    *Safe-passage to BOTH sides (a whompa issue)
    *A neutral application
    *the ability to at least save in Clan/Omni areas

    Safe passage to both sides because neutrals should be able to move freely (even at low levels) away from clan areas into omni areas (or at least have some areas that are contested)

    A neutral application because i, like many, many n00bies clicked on the forms provided and made a boo-boo. Besides, what if I later on discover that I dont agree with that side (much like a senator...) and decide to switch mid-stream? (e.g. player joins clan, discovers that he/she doesnt like the clans, but still doesnt like stuck as a clan?) and yes, a penalty should be emposed on a person that swiches to neutral after chooseing.

    The ability to save would make sence because neutrals do have this "freedom-of-movement" (supposedly) so why cant they at least save?

    Anyhow, this is coming from a n00b that got stuck playing clan, but wanted to be neutral ....did i meantion that i love my clan? (hehe)


  5. #145

    My Thoughts as a neutral....

    Before I start a quick confession:

    I havent read all the posts here (there are sooo many) so I'm probably repeating previous posters or going to put my foot in it. I just wanted to air my thoughts.....

    Ok so we, as neutrals, have the ability to go anywhere and be pretty safe (acording to the article).... I'm sorry but thats not true and flies in the face of the sentence that follows shortly afterwards about being attacked by sided monsters.

    err ok, surely if I go to a sided city (which I can as a neutral) then it follows that I am likely to meet sided monsters? (and when I'm high enough to kill that bloody NPC Omni crat that ALWAYS kills me when I go to Omni-ent he'll wish he was never rendered!).

    I realise we cant have it both ways so what I would like to see is either:

    a. We are safe anywhere (unless we start trouble) and all are welcome in a neutral city (unless they start trouble). So we can use all their shops and maybe sided players cant attack us first????


    b. It stays the way it is at the moment but the same issues apply to clan and omni members in neutral cities (i.e cant use shops, ramdomly attacked by neutral monsters etc.).

    There are basically two views to neutrality, we take neither side because we dont care OR we take neither side because we dont like either alternative. I think too many people think the neutrals just sit on the fence, rather than having made their mind up already.

    The above statements will also show why it is stupid that we cant start a PvP fight (not that I want to but I realise why people are complaining about it). In fact if you follow the line of reasoning then neither side should be able to attack a neutral because they are 'non-combatants', but also because you wouldnt want to risk alienating a potential ally and/or convert - and start the bad vibe grapevine moving e.g. "Those Damn clanners attacked me last night while I was out hunting Leets, perhaps Omni is right about them being a bunch or terrorists after all!" or "If it wasnt bad enough having to put with Omni sending spys out here, they attacked by cousin Billybob yesterday while he was cleaning his Yalm, makes us just hate 'em even more"

    Now for my part I choose neutrality because I didnt want to commit until I knew the pros and cons of either side. Well I'm lvl 23 and I still dont. I dont see any compelling reason to join either side. Neither has any great advantage (but then maybe thats because this whole token thing isnt explained anywhere), nor do they have any disadvantages (notwithstanding being attacked by the other side, but hey thats one side less than us right!). Neither actively canvesses for me to switch sides (omni or clan missions offered to Neutrals characters should offer more of an incentive since they cant get their own people to do their dirty work for them) but that isnt necessarily a bad thing (unless you stick to your original plan where neutrals are just a pool of people 'waiting' to join a faction)

    As far as making playing neutrals hard.......this fact needs to be explained during character creation. I can imagine a lot of people would pick neutrality for the same reasons I did, i.e. wanting to find their feet first. On the face of it taking a side in a war appears to be a lot harder than not getting involved in the war. Unfortunately in this case its made harder for those who stay out of it (which again may be by design) so new players should get plenty of warning.

    [Edited because I found loads of typos :-)]
    Last edited by Warlock; Mar 22nd, 2002 at 10:12:48.
    Dont you think I look like Geordie from Star Trek?
    Actually I look more of a cross between him and Picard don't I?

  6. #146

    please, don't consider

    I don't think neutrals understand what they're getting into when they become neutral. Neutral means you don't have the support of anyone. They have no organized group, they're neutral so they don't stand for anything, they just bow to the victor. No shops, no quests, no central organization. The individual neutrals are pivotal to the story in that they decide which side to join, and the more that join a side, the greater chance that side wins. I play a neutral character because there is no central organization and I can objectively decide which side to join in the struggle.

  7. #147
    I've never really understood why clans had access to Newland City through a whompa and Omni didn't since Newland was suppose to be a NEUTRAL city.

    I think there should be whompas linking Tir directly with Athen. Then maybe clan and omni should each have a whompa linking them to an outpost that was in neutral territory (that is clan link to clan outpost, omni link to omni outpost).

    That would give BOTH clan and omni access to neutral territory (and neutrals access to clan and omni territory) without having them arrive smack dab in the center of a neutral city (which seems a bit rude )

    I'm glad that neutrals will be getting their own organizations.
    Anastasia "Aniee" Cervenak
    Martial Artist

    Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to. -------Mark Twain

  8. #148

    The thing about Wompa access to Newland.....

    The answer to the way the wompa network is constructed may be explained by the fact that the wompas would have been built prior to the formation of the clans. This still doesnt really explain why they go to Newland (from the architexture Newland doesnt look like it was built by Omni, and I dont recall anything out its construction in the timeline) as I cant see Omni being that bothered about keeping open relations with the Neutrals. The downside of this is there there really should have 'been' Wompa access between Omni-1 and Omni-2 (Athen), although this may have been 'switched off' or 're-routed' once Omni abandoned the city to the Clans.

    The lack of Wompa betwwen Tir and Athen would be explained IF the Clans do not have the technology/resources to construct their own Wompa system.

    Of course what makes sense in the context of the story doesnt always make for a sensible system in the game :-)
    Last edited by Warlock; Mar 29th, 2002 at 23:10:43.
    Dont you think I look like Geordie from Star Trek?
    Actually I look more of a cross between him and Picard don't I?

  9. #149
    I think these proposed changes are excellent, but I would just caution funcom to bear in mind as they do so that they should be careful to craft the neutrals a true NEUTRAL faction, not a THIRD faction. I think their role should be enhanced as the MEDIATORS of the dispute. If they become too unified they will simply be a third voice in the argument, loyal to themselves and thus not be neutral.

  10. #150
    Originally posted by x-genesis
    I think these proposed changes are excellent, but I would just caution funcom to bear in mind as they do so that they should be careful to craft the neutrals a true NEUTRAL faction, not a THIRD faction. I think their role should be enhanced as the MEDIATORS of the dispute. If they become too unified they will simply be a third voice in the argument, loyal to themselves and thus not be neutral.
    But wouldn't the mediators of the dispute be the ICC? To me the neutrals are just those who are neither for Omni or the Clans nor against them either. They would be allowed in the territory of both Omni and Clan (although they would probably be watched carefully), they would trade with both Omni and Clan etc.
    Anastasia "Aniee" Cervenak
    Martial Artist

    Man is the only animal that blushes, or needs to. -------Mark Twain

  11. #151

    Mission tokens for Neutrals, etc...

    I would like to see mission tokens for Neutrals if possible. Perhaps not as many as Clan or Omni? Or not as powerful? I think a Neutral should be able to collect rewards from both sides, token rewards. One way to implement this is to require twice as many tokens before they make a difference. Perhaps half the tokens from one side and half from the other? (So the first reward might show up after 10 tokens from Omni _and_ 10 tokens from Clan have been collected).

    I would also like to see more shop access for Neutrals to Clan and Omni shops. Perhaps a fluctuating system, where access to shops changes periodically based on the current political situation? Or where only some shops are accessible at any time, but which shops depends on recent events in the storyline?

    Thank you!

    PS: For the Agent profession, faking sides might be an interesting addition to the game, especially for PvP. IE, a nano like FP Doctor, called FakeSide Omni, FakeSide Neutral, FakeSide Clan. Also, FakeName might be helpful in PvP.

  12. #152

    in summary

    I hope this is not too late and you are still reviewing these responses Guate.

    I add my voice to those fellow neuts that say, we never wanted to be on the side that 'wins' or be a side or faction that does win. In fact, it appears that most of us originally believed that nuets 'had a role' in the conflict already. It appears by your article that we assumed incorrectly and that the neut function has yet to be determined.

    As far as making changes to or for the nuets, I would only like to see two things, otherwise, leave us neuts alone. Must of us have accepted our lot in life in Rubi-Ka and are doing ok.

    1. In regards to the tab target, when we are teamed with either clan or omni, take us (neuts) off their target list and take our teammates (clan or omni) off ours. Otherwise, leave the tab-target alone, it serves its purpose and you have more important things to fix.

    2. If you havent already, allow us to initate combat in 25% zones AND ... deduct pvp points from sided players that attack us without provocation. This helps in two areas in one stroke.

    For neuts, this will allow us to role-play effectively (as omni and clan do now) and be able to use our choice of 'no alignment' to serve both sides if we wish in non-combative and combative terms. Allowing the neuts that wish to play the 'shadier side' of neutrality to play that side.

    Also this serves neuts that wish to be peaceful as well, as it would be harmful for a pvp player to go around 'using neuts for target practice'. As a suggestion, make the penality twice or 3x that of losing a pvp fight. This should give pause to any pvper, or at least a minute or two to double check their target and decide if it is worth the trouble or not.

    In summary, most of the neuts have come to the realization that neuts were never meant a faction and are 3rd class citizens of Rubi-Ka. We've accepted the harder road and are OK with it. Though we didnt choice this alignment not to be invovled in the story, quite the opposite, we are the few who believed that this choice is what would add some ****e to the story. We are not asking to have our lives made easier, just take off a handcuff or two and let us play.

    Thanks for the time and the article,

    silusGrim - paying customer since Nov.01

  13. #153

    Late Thoughts

    Just for the record

    I'd like the ability to target in PvP. I have not as yet participated in this, but if I was targetted and defeated in PvP by an aligned player, I would like the chance to return and even the score. Neutrals can hold a grudge too.

    I would like to be able to take both Clan and OT missions from their booths. Some Neutrals do like to be mercenary and work for either (or both) side(s).

    Being able to utilise all the save booths is a must too.

    I'd like more shopping access too. Restict access to weapons and armour if you must, but everything else should be fair game. And there are never any good clothes in the Neutral clothes shops .

    I like having the Whompas in Newland, don't remove them. Going anywhere is a Neutrals big advantage and one I'll happily trade a Token Board for. If we lose the Whompas it makes low level movement impossible.

    I think that Clanned and OT should be allowed to join the Neutrals if they want. I think it should be a 'resignation' form rather than an application form tho' . Standard penalties to apply. Since oplayers can swap between the two sides to their hearts content, may as well let them become Neutral as well.

    I don't see that Neutrals need a central organisation, but then the larger Neutral factions do deserve some recognition for their continued contribution to the world we play in. I see being Neutral, not as being a third faction, but the conscious choice of NO faction. Or perhaps either faction depending on whose paying at the moment.

  14. #154

    Post Another Take on Neutrality

    My first character was like most. Neutral because I wasn't sure which side appealed to me. But now my highest level chars are still neutral. Why, you might ask? Because after taking on "good" missions for both sides, they have seen the dark side of both Clan and OT. Both of these characters could never in good conscience join Clan OR OT after destroying hoards of amateur virusbuilders, people with permanent death technology, etc.

    Don't call them mercs, it doesn't reflect their motives properly. These are individuals who started with Clan political sympathies and then woke up during a mission and said "Waitaminute! These guys are making weapons that could destroy the planet and everyone on it!" Then they saw the same projects coming out of OT. They think both sides are evil. The end doesn't justify the means to them. They'd do these "good" missions for free if that was an option. Seriously. They're not so much mercs as idealists. They'll take a mission for any long as it's one they agree with morally. My characters are not alone. A lot of the chat in the clubs with other neutrals indicates to me that in addition to mercs and profiteers. there's a fairly sizeable contingent out there who believe the way to save the planet is to kill those on both sides who threaten every life form on on Rubi-Ka, regardless of their affiliation.

    Please don't make my neutral characters join clan or OT because they kill a virusbuilder whose own employers would publicly deny all knowledge of him or her. These are chars who take jobs the public is never gonna know about, to prevent disasters that hopefully the public will also never know about. If forced to join a side, they could only do half that job. Half isn't enough for them. They make a lot of sacrifices to continue doing what they think is right. It's not easy to make money as a neutral actually, at least at the level mine are. They can't use half their treasure and rewards because they are Clan or OT only. Selling is difficult.

    I can accept that maybe aligned items should not be usable by neutrals, or perhaps could be used if "hacked" in some manner, but I agree with other posts here that clothes and such are items that one would imagine a store owner would sell to neutrals. And insurance cell scanner machines? Why would they lose credits rather than insure a person who is in many ways less likely to die of war-related causes? As for being pked by aligned npcs, I don't think it should happen if you haven't killed a member of that faction in the last 24 hours. After all, most of the missions neutrals take are pretty hush hush. Would the average guard really know about them unless they fit the description of someone seen running out of a building recently with a loaded weapon and heading straight for the ammo shop?

    I'm pretty new to the game, but I suspect one of the reasons people play neutrals is that instead of creating both OT and Clans as "good" with serious philosophical differences, according to the timeline, both sides have done some pretty questionable stuff. A new player coming into the game has trouble seeing everything in black and white, because, frankly, there isn't a white side here. I am sure this was done to prevent the majority of players from choosing Clan as the "good" side, but since Clan and OT act much alike in the eyes of new players, there is no roleplay incentive to really join either side. It's unfortunate because of all the games I have tried in the last 3 years, there seems to be more roleplaying here than anywhere else. I really expected that all my characters would choose sides. So far the only ones on sides were born there. If I could make them neutral, even with all the disadvantages, I would.

  15. #155
    Good post, Shiori!

    Hey, even Han Solo, who thought he was a merc a first, turn out to be an idealist in the end...or was he just horny...

    Anyway, I liked it. May not be exactly my personality, but I liked it!
    RoboKa & RoboKaKa
    Solitus Neutral Engineer & Pet

  16. #156
    In my opinion, if there are two opposing sides and a neutral force, the neutrals influence should be grater than it is now.
    Because of its position in this world, they have the potential to leard the confrict, negotiater, bridge of communication and etc.
    Their focus is not "win" or "lose", but how the war effect their live.
    Prolong the war and make profit out of it, or end it and let's live in peace, someting like that.

    So, I think there should be neutral politicians in the story active in the war of Rubi-Ka.

    Is there one such?

    Right now, the story does not have sense of reality, details are ignored.
    If you cannot make the story at least good, you shouldn't bring one into the game, but it is a history now.
    Last edited by K.S.; Apr 21st, 2002 at 22:34:54.

  17. #157
    Very good post Shiori, however remember that Omni-tek and the Clans are MASSIVE organizations. Anything as large as they are will have both good and bad elements in it. Much like any modern day nation. Most people view the Allies as the good guys of WW2 yet the allies did some intensely evil things. Such is the way of the world. I think it adds tremendous depth to the world that things aren't just super simple and black and white. One finds in life that very rarely is there simply a black and white, only shades of grey.
    Oren "Ironheel" Fadri
    Clan Enforcer

  18. #158
    There really is no 'good' side to join. That's why people stay Neutral. Seems the influential players on both sides just want to break the peace accords and fight each other for four years. I wanted to provide my support to the Clans but in short order saw they were largely full of people at the top who just didn't get it. I checked out the Omni side as they actually seemed to be nicer at the time. But, at their top everyone was just as eager to get the game of persistent Team Fortress Classic going as well.

    So I opted out and have been happy not to have to hear the childesh 'Dirty Clanner'/'Omni-Sux' rhetoric that the 13-yr olds seem so fond of.

    This isn't very much of a plot and pretty much paints both sides as a bunch of war-mongerers or at least headed by a few of the PvP scene.

    Seems noone is willing to work with FunCom to live within a complex storyline.

    I really wish FunCom would allow players to sign on for a gaming session as a member of the Dust Brigade. At least then I'd have a true mission in going after other players to kill. As it stands now an Omni killing a Clanner is a jackass and vice versa. There's no reason in-game for these people to be fighting each other. Now, if I could set my sights on a Duster I wouldn't care if it were PC, NPC, or ARK. I _know_ that's a bad person that needs a whuppin.

  19. #159


    Originally posted by Bionitrous

    So I opted out and have been happy not to have to hear the childesh 'Dirty Clanner'/'Omni-Sux' rhetoric that the 13-yr olds seem so fond of.
    That's "filthy clanner"

    Everybody gets dirty in the duststorms of Rubi-ka.
    Neutral Nanomage Bureaucrat RK1
    Veteran, The Independant Rubikans

  20. #160


    JimmySav , Neutral Fixer RK-2
    "Jim'll Fix it for you...."

    CEO Rubika Asset Management
    "Jimmy's back, and this time, its personal!"

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