RUR to research Token Technolgy for Neutrals

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
The easy route is sitting on the sidelines saying you have "strength, dedication and willpower" for living without merits, then starting a campaign for a merit board without having done anything to earn them.

No, the easy route is for me to really not care one way or the other and to sign up under a flag of convenience for the benefits it brings. No-one's asking OT or the clans to simply come along and hand us a merit board. As far as I understand it, this is an initiative to reverse-engineer the technology and produce a merit board for ourselves.

Stand up and fight for what I believe in? What if I don't believe in either Omni-Tek or the clans? You're not the only two value systems on the planet, you know.

Cheers,

~R~

[Jereziah]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
The easy route is sitting on the sidelines saying you have "strength, dedication and willpower" for living without merits, then starting a campaign for a merit board without having done anything to earn them.

Clans and Omni have earned their merits for having the courage, honor and dedication to stand up and fight for what they believe in. And you say we "have it easier than neutrals ever will?" Why don't neutrals earn the merits instead of having them handed to them then?

Being neutral is NOTHING like sitting on the sidelike, being neutral is sitting in the MIDDLE between Omni and Clan. You both pick on us, you both harass us, you both bitch like mad when neutrals stand up for themselves. Just take this endeavour as example! Neutrals all over endorse it, it can only do us good, yet Omni and Clan alike throw a fit over the possibility of neutrals having what they get for free, simply by accepting a simple application.

I do the same missions as my sided friends. Heck I even tank for them sometimes, even tho Im just a lowly nanomage. What is more heroic in their efforts?

I do my best at providing implants for my friends, yet because I have not picked a side at war, I am short in nanoprogramming skill for some reason. The token board technology hanging around the neck of every sided person I team with lets them do nanoprogramming so much easier than me, why is that?

That is the technology *IM* most interested in, personally. Lacking in skills is far more important to me than dying easier than anyone buried knee deep in a war.

/J

[Boltgun]

Well, since this idea was launched, I couldn't stop thinking about how it would enhance or ruin my business.

The thing I fear that there would be a creation of a sort of Neutral government for distributing the tolens.

I think myself that having right to travel to both sides and have contacts where we want is more a priority. Because except my anonymous clients who send me requests via missions terminals, everyone see me as an enemy. Which is wrong because I would fight with them as soon as they pay me.

[Nyadach]

((OOC

Waaaaaay back when (sept 2001), it was asked for neuts to get token boards. The reason we got back we don't get them was we are not a anything....we are a community. Yet the idea sent back to the powers that be that as such we could actually get the tokens rewarded as we've done a job for the community, and as such we get rewarded by the community. Well, that went up in smoke also. The idea of killing enough clan that omni citizens get rewarded, or killing enough omni that than clan hierarchy reward you is even sillier than being rewarded by the community...but it still failed.

And yes, some of us do understand the concept that we are not a faction, not another side, and have no backing. And actually find that part of the challenge that we ain't some half baked wimps who need these things...would they be nice, yes. Can't deny that. But then again there is also more important things that need to be sorted first before they run around working on tokens or something similar for a neut. Is it really such a priority when theres balancing and alot of other things that need to be fixed first?

/OOC))

Ohhh, very interesting...

*camps the door of the ICC with a ql300 Anti matter device*

Oi, you know its worth saying yes this time don't ya?

[_______________Bliqz]

Originally posted by Yarko
So my dear Bliqz, you get rewarded by OT because you are a distorted, man-eating psycho, while at the same time a humanist, peace loving OT employee gets the same reward? Seems to me your employer can’t make up his mind

First of all, I do not eat people, I eat clanners. Second, I accept missions and assignments like any other loyal employee who wishes to be recognized in this way. I see no confusion.

Originally posted by Yarko
Same goes for the clans. And what about the numerous occasions when a neutral citizen aids in the accomplishment of an omni or clan mission? Or even more, when people join forces to defeat the real dangers on our planet in mixed teams?

I would not know, I dont associate outside Omni-Tek, unless it is a part of my assignment, and never in a team. And no neutral or clanner has done anything truly constructive for Omni-Tek...they steal, kill, and terrorize its citizens...hardly worthy of medals and acolades.

Originally posted by Yarko
...as they perform many tasks to the benefit of all people on Rubi Ka without feeling the need to slaughter their neighbours.

Yarko

Perhaps you like a few others heve dedicated your life to science and trades. But you will not get Bravery Tokens for that. Sooner or later you will have to engage in combat.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Soyuz
No, the easy route is for me to really not care one way or the other and to sign up under a flag of convenience for the benefits it brings. No-one's asking OT or the clans to simply come along and hand us a merit board. As far as I understand it, this is an initiative to reverse-engineer the technology and produce a merit board for ourselves.

Stand up and fight for what I believe in? What if I don't believe in either Omni-Tek or the clans? You're not the only two value systems on the planet, you know.

You're completely missing the point. You state the merits are a "flag of convenience" and state neutrals are better than everyone else because they can do without the merit board. Yet, here neutrals are working to create a merit board. Do you not see the irony? Do you not see how you contradict everything you say be even asking for merits? Guess not.

Jereziah, this has nothing to do with picking on neutrals. To us, the point of the merits is having chosen a side in the conflict. Neutrals are taking steps to gain merits without having taken a side in the conflict. That will devalue what the merits mean to those who've chosen a side in the conflict. So, we chose to fight neutrals on the issue of merits because we do not want our having chosen a side to be meaningless.

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
You state the merits are a "flag of convenience" and state neutrals are better than everyone else because they can do without the merit board.

No, I'm stating that merit boards can be a acquired under a flag of convenience. Faction members have posted here frequently that they regard their merit boards as a reward for taking a side in the conflict. However I'd be willing to bet that for every dedicated, loyal faction member who chose his or her side for genuine ideological reasons, there's another who chose their side purely for the material benefits it brings [ooc: think Tara loot].

I never said that neutrals were better than omni/clan members, just that they had it harder. Some neutrals take a pride in that and justifiably so. However, recognising that neutrality is currently the hardest road to travel does not preclude that we try to do something to level the playing field.

Cheers,

~R~

[Praecautus]

((The only problem I have is this, the merit board is a reward for your work to your faction/clan/org. Merits are gained by military action against an enemy, my clan missions mention hindering Omni-Tek's efforts. Which raises the question who will the neutral guilds actions be against? A lot of the neutrals posting to this thread mention the benefits but not what the board means in an RP sense. I think it would be better to have some sort of levelling item or neutral armour, but medals that you get for essentially being at war wont sit well with a lot of neutal guilds, will The IR, for example, have to declare war on Omni-Tek and the Clans to get their merits? Or if the merits are given for doing a job eg A clan rewards a neutral character for performing a mission against Omni-Tek, wouldnt Omni-Tek subsequently view that individual as an enemy and refuse to employ them for future jobs? Whilst i'm all for some neutral luvin' I dont think this is the correct way to go about it.

edit - /me runs the nanoprogram Create Punctation in his NCU))

((added the following ic))
The Merit Board brings great benefits to its owner but also a responsibility for those benefits ((see ooc statement)). I see many individuals exposuing the benefits of the board but not what it means. I honestly think they should give that some thought, your actions always have effects.

[Glarawyn]

The Merit Board brings great benefits to its owner but also a responsibility for those benefits

And it all dosn't mean a damn anyway. Sure, you earn them by serving your clan of detachment, but think about it.

Do you always rush to defend every attack vs your base? Do you do your best to serve your faction as a whole, or do you serve your cause, or the cause of your org?

Most people are serving themselves or their org, not their faction. There are a few dedicated people who serve their faction, and they do indeed earn the merits in my eye.

I'm a self proclaimed self serving opertunistic neut, but I know who my friends are. (At least I admit it!)

In my eye, what should be being researches is seperating the benifit system from the merit system. If RUR isn't doing that, then whoever hired them is just wasting time and money.

The goal should not be to create merit based buff technology, but to free the buff technology from the merit system and reengineer it into a rough equivlent to a merit board.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Soyuz
No, I'm stating that merit boards can be a acquired under a flag of convenience. Faction members have posted here frequently that they regard their merit boards as a reward for taking a side in the conflict. However I'd be willing to bet that for every dedicated, loyal faction member who chose his or her side for genuine ideological reasons, there's another who chose their side purely for the material benefits it brings [ooc: think Tara loot].

I concure that Clan Merits - Basic Board is earned rather conveniently by filling out a High Level Clan Application Form. However, Clan Merits - Double Sun is earned by hard work and dedication through supportive actions on the clan side of the conflict, which is hardly a "flag of convenience."

Originally posted by Soyuz
I never said that neutrals were better than omni/clan members, just that they had it harder. Some neutrals take a pride in that and justifiably so. However, recognising that neutrality is currently the hardest road to travel does not preclude that we try to do something to level the playing field.

Actually, you stated that, "you did not display any sort of strength, dedication or willpower when you picked your side, you just made your life a hell of a lot easier," implying that neturals were stronger, more dedicated and more willpowered (i.e. better) for chosing not to have the merits. If you were not implying neutrals were better, by that phrase, then what did you mean exactly?

[Bionitrous]

Why did you guys have to come in here and destroy a fine roleplaying thread. You can't believe how pissed I am. I did report the thread but I guess the moderators got no balls.

Take your god damned game mechanic discussions to the game mechanics or suggestions forums. This was supposed to be an in-game and in-forum story and you bastards ruined it with your tired-ass rhetoric.

You can't believe how disgusted I am. Nobody can start a fuggen thread in this forum without some jerk ruining it. And that goes for both sides in this 'story' who are arguing god damned game mechanics when there was supposed to be a role playing scenario played out and with one of the best roleplayers in the game playing a major part.

I'd not be surprised if Savoy is so disgusted that she drops the whole plot.

Thanks alot guys.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
Why did you guys have to come in here and destroy a fine roleplaying thread. You can't believe how pissed I am. I did report the thread but I guess the moderators got no balls.

(( That's all you ever do any more, complain that someone doesn't conform to your style of gameplay, saying what's wrong with the game and how the game should change to suit your style of play.

We certainly let you play however you want, so why don't you let us play the game how we want without coming down on us with your same old song and dance routines?

This is Anarchy! Do you expect everyone to sit around and pretend this is Sims Online where all of us are suppose to be "happy happy joy joy" and get along super-duper well?!

Get over yourself already. We will not conform to your style of game play! ))

[_______________Bliqz]

OOC

Bio, wether or not your opinion is waranted is beside the point. You should not come into a thread with broad based accusations that harass everyone.

Please, if you have issue, take it to PM's. Its polite, and gets alot more accomplished than shotgun accusations.

[rheena]

Hello this is Noholdsbarre ,one of the main researchers of the Token Board Dev team. If i may respond to a comment made
recently.

Glarawyn ; In my eye, what should be being researches is seperating the benifit system from the merit system. If RUR isn't doing that, then whoever hired them is just wasting time and money.

The goal should not be to create merit based buff technology, but to free the buff technology from the merit system and reengineer it into a rough equivlent to a merit board.


Glarawyn,
We will certainly look at the problem from both angles and see
what is feasible.
Thank you for your suggestion.
Noholdsbarre,RUR

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
I concure that Clan Merits - Basic Board is earned rather conveniently by filling out a High Level Clan Application Form. However, Clan Merits - Double Sun is earned by hard work and dedication through supportive actions on the clan side of the conflict, which is hardly a "flag of convenience."

Believe it or not, there are neutrals out there with as much combat experience as any faction member, possibly more since of course neutral operatives don't have the benefit of the learning enhancements built into the merit boards. Many neutrals make their living by hiring out to employers via the mission terminals found in every major town, so there's not much of a change in lifestyle involved.

Actually, you stated that, "you did not display any sort of strength, dedication or willpower when you picked your side, you just made your life a hell of a lot easier," implying that neturals were stronger, more dedicated and more willpowered (i.e. better) for chosing not to have the merits. If you were not implying neutrals were better, by that phrase, then what did you mean exactly?

I'll paraphrase...

Julius Enfraam: "Using the whompa system does not require any special insight into nanoprogramming."

Sarah Mocham: "I used the whompa system to get here! Are you implying that I have no special insight into nanoprogramming?"

Simply put, choosing a faction and signing on the dotted line says nothing whatsoever, good or bad, about the qualities I mentioned. That depends entirely on the individual. Some will be dedicated employees/revolutionaries, fully committed to the cause they've chosen, while others will have a more casual, mercenary approach and will simply enjoy the benefits of faction membership while doing more or less what they've always done.

[/shrug]

Regardless, R.U.R. is on the case now and what happens, happens. It's a fascinating project and I'll be interested to see what comes out of it, although the engineering difficulties are formidable.

Cheers,

~R~

[Aimes]

Originally posted by Soyuz
Regardless, R.U.R. is on the case now and what happens, happens. It's a fascinating project and I'll be interested to see what comes out of it, although the engineering difficulties are formidable.

R.U.R is working on a project that has formidable engineering difficulties?

R.U.R as in the ones that make my cleaner bot?

Wow, bearing in mind what that bot has done to my apartment saying the outcome will be interesting must rank high up in regards for understatement of the year.

(())

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
I'd not be surprised if Savoy is so disgusted that she drops the whole plot.

/ooc

No risk of me dropping this Bio. By and large I think the discussion has been mostly ic, generally constructive and in some instance genuinely funny. Obviously it is a topic that people feel passionately about, which is what makes it interesting roleplaying. I just hope no one ends getting carried away.

[Praecautus]

Originally posted by Glarawyn


In my eye, what should be being researches is seperating the benifit system from the merit system. If RUR isn't doing that, then whoever hired them is just wasting time and money.

The goal should not be to create merit based buff technology, but to free the buff technology from the merit system and reengineer it into a rough equivlent to a merit board.

so you want something for nothing then? ie the benefits of the highest ranked merit board but without the work that went into getting it?

I'm all for neutrals getting some stuff to help them out, but I most definately dont agree in getting something for nothing though.

[Jereziah]

Originally posted by Dr Tiny
so you want something for nothing then? ie the benefits of the highest ranked merit board but without the work that went into getting it?

I'm all for neutrals getting some stuff to help them out, but I most definately dont agree in getting something for nothing though.

If I use an Omni or Clan application right this moment, I get a such a major learning bonus that is overshadows even the highest quality token board ((side Xp bonus)). I'd get it without even a hint of an effort. That, if anything, is getting something for nothing, wouldnt you say?

/J

[Yarko]

First of all, I do not eat people, I eat clanners.

Hmm, are you sure that is a healthy diet, Bliqz?

You're completely missing the point. You state the merits are a "flag of convenience" and state neutrals are better than everyone else because they can do without the merit board. Yet, here neutrals are working to create a merit board. Do you not see the irony? Do you not see how you contradict everything you say be even asking for merits? Guess not.

Well, times do change, don’t they?

The fact that in your eyes tokens for neutrals would devalue your hard earned tokens does not really create a sense of guilt in me. On the contrary, as I am trying to point out, there are many amongst clan as well as omni who do not deserve any merits. That is where the devaluation takes place.

Medals have not always and only been presented to those who distinguish themselves in the “art” of war. One could even wonder if dishonourable actions, such as a senseless war, justify any tokens. A brave behaviour, whilst freeing our world from another dangerous creature or deranged mind however does. Numerous neutrals perform these tasks day in and day out without much gratitude.

The fact that you need a governing body to hand out these merits doesn’t make much sense either. The clans no longer have a governing body since the CoT disappeared. One could even wonder about OT, as there seems to be as much anarchy there as on the rest of the planet.

I, for one, welcome R.U.R’s research and I will follow their progress closely.

Yarko