A Treaty for Neutrals

[Nyadach]

Originally posted by Sumokan

LOL I know thread evolution is the way things are but are we a TV generation or what? I know some sided peeps might go off topic we can't control that however we can control our own responses and keep on track. Errr what was the original topic? Oh yeah the damn treaty. Some info I would like to impart for to my fellow neutrals.

LOL, it is kinda amusing though to try and keep track of how this has moved as it has.

Originally posted by Sumokan
To Neutrals who are Anti Thug:
As for removal of the mercs in New Land the treaty can have a clause that any org who recognizes the treaty and pledges aid from outside attacks thereby securing New Land. EO will gladly meet with any sided members to conduct talks about the merc removal.

Ohhh, now you're talking. It has been in organisational law since mining opened up to the planet that we can't attack, and can't assist in attacks due to our neutral status ((as by definition attacking means we are no longer neutral)). As many know we can and we do assist other neutral organisations when we have the personal available for the particular need. And (although it will need consultation with the governing board) as such we "might" be able to assist you in defence if needed. But I would have to underline DEFENCE.

In regards to the mercs I still find it utterly silly they are in Newland. Firstly the Sentinals are no larger a problem to us than the citizens of Rome are, and even the occassional citizen in Omni-Trade. Yet no action was ever taken against them. The mercs are just plainly sided with Omni-Tek, and are in no way whatsoever neutral. If they were really there as revenge against those gunning down neutrals in other citys then why do they turn a blind eye to Omni-Tek? It's wrong, they are wrong, and they should not be there. And the longer they are there, the more people ((partically the noobs if you talk to them)) believe Newland is no longer neutral and is actually a Omni city. And to be honest I personally have to agree with them as it might as well carry the Omni flag above it for how neutral the place is. As for Tir, yes its dangerous. But its not so dangerous we can't go there. Its still possible to walk the streets in relative safety. Its actually on a par with Rome for how safe it is. Just keep out of the way of certain people and your fine. Heck even the Sentinals are friendly enough, ok there bosses arn't but on a whole Tir is not as bad as some make out.

[Sumokan]

Greetings:

Nyadach:
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In regards to the mercs I still find it utterly silly they are in Newland. Firstly the Sentinals are no larger a problem to us than the citizens of Rome are, and even the occassional citizen in Omni-Trade. Yet no action was ever taken against them.
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Since you continue to go off the subject about the treaty I will state the reason as to why the mercs are there (even though this has been literally beaten to death in other posts).

All sided NPC shoot neutrals. Everyone knows the risk of encountering a sided ncp clan/omni and if you enter a city (or wildereness for that matter) with said npcs. You should accept those risks venturing out of New Land or Boralis. Being mugged or shot in a strange city is nothing new.

The difference to as why clan is singled out is due to a major clan org STATED that they would blow up New Land and Boralis if he had the chance. The Omnis on the other hand did not.

The difference to as why clan is singled out is due to a MAJOR figure of clan stated his hostile intentions to neutrals and has a small army to back up his intentions. The Omnis on the other hand did not.

The difference is to why clan is singled out is due to there aggressive posture toward neutrals in general. The Omnis in general have not.

To as Tir being not so dangerous I agree, but so is New Land to clan, as long as they do not linger and go to the city interior they may still use the whompa system although in haste. They have been warned not to come. Any clan coming is to be shoot on site since they are clearly up to no good.

Many clan guilds clearly showed their intent in their blatant wanton destruction of neutral property and lives. If New Land itself could be taken by clan I know they would have done so. If clans would violate a neutrals org mining operation They would violate a neutral city as well. Clan track record for treaty breaking, lieing, deciet, murder and destruction has not impressed EO at all.

As far as the sentinals being nice............I am at a loose of words and will not respond.

EO has and always stated to the clans how the mercs can be removed. EO backs this and THE NEW LAND COUNCIL supports this. While the mercs as Omni affliated and you consider it a omni city. Fine, but EO would rather have it stand as a city then a pile of rubble due to a clanners mindless blood lust. EO will use any resource available to secure New Land and will not just stand by just because of neutral inaction. The city is to be defended by whatever means possible.

I find it silly that you continue to change the subject and talk about the mercs when this is a treaty post. How can anyone take a proposed treaty serously if you continue to bring up another subject that is not even related? Instead of coming directly to me or the EO president about finding a solution to the New Land Mercs you continue to wage words on the forum.

The New Land merc issue has been beaten to death.
The status of Neutrals has been beaten to death.

Lets talk treaty or not talk at all. Otherwise lets not waste our time.

Sincerely, Sumokan of Elite Operations

[Evalissa]

EO has and always stated to the clans how the mercs can be removed. EO backs this and THE NEW LAND COUNCIL supports this. While the mercs as Omni affliated and you consider it a omni city. Fine, but EO would rather have it stand as a city then a pile of rubble due to a clanners mindless blood lust. EO will use any resource available to secure New Land and will not just stand by just because of neutral inaction. The city is to be defended by whatever means possible.

grrr

if i did not respect pyro so much..

[UwensBack]

EO has and always stated to the clans how the mercs can be removed. EO backs this and THE NEW LAND COUNCIL supports this. While the mercs as Omni affliated and you consider it a omni city. Fine, but EO would rather have it stand as a city then a pile of rubble due to a clanners mindless blood lust. EO will use any resource available to secure New Land and will not just stand by just because of neutral inaction. The city is to be defended by whatever means possible.

EO told us that the mercs would be gone as soon as the Sentinels were gone. We worked on a plan with a group of people and now the ball is no longer in "our court", rather in those that we contacted. Of course, upon relaying that we have a plan in place and that, hopefully, the issue would soon be resolved, we were informed that we had to stabilise clan/neutral relations as well! Was this part of the original deal? No. Is this asking the clans to do all the work to repair relations? Yes. Is this acceptable? No. Relations will not "normalise" until the mercs are gone. Period. End of story.

And this threat we are continually told about.... I think its amusing. I haven't seen one Sentinel advance pretty much anywhere for some time. No plans, no troop movement, nothing. You think its the mercs that kept them still? Hah. If Silverstone wanted, he would turn Newland city into this pile of rubble you talk about. Thats not to say I want him to, but that is to say that the sexually confused mercenary thug and his merry band of murderers won't stop him if he doesn't want them to stop him. All you did was A) seriously damage relations and, B) turn Newland city into an Omni city, much to the dismay of many other neutrals. We're told that many neutrals want the mercs, but say they don't publicly. We've also been given no proof of this, so I will continue to believe that people are not afraid to express their true opinion.

You are afraid of clanners conquering Newland and your solution is to give it up to OmniTek without a fight. I believe my friend Cris has a supply of applications for you. Just sign along the dotted line because your actions have filled out the rest.

And these mercs do not keep clanners out. I visit Newland whenever I like and shoot spitballs out of my Yalmaha window at Loren Warr.

In my opinion, EO had no right to give Newland to OmniTek without the consent of all the neutrals.

There are remnants of OmniTek posters in Newland. They say "Omni-Tek: Behave Examplary[sic]". Perhaps they should be put back up, with a slight spelling correction.

That said, I'll try to get back on topic . A political alliance for neutrals without apocalyptic goals (BORPACT) or OmniTek/Clan influence would be a welcome thing, so long as all the neutrals are represented equally. If the majority of neutrals think the way I believe they think, it will do alot for repairing relations.

[Evalissa]

In my opinion, EO had no right to give Newland to OmniTek without the consent of all the neutrals.

Here here!

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Uwen
If Slicse is attacking me, one of the sides of the conflict, he has engaged one of the sides. How is he still neutral to the conflict when he has attacked one of the sides?

That's the whole point you're missing or not understanding. He's attaking you, not the side.

As Necc states, the why is important too. If he's attacking you because of your hair, then he's attacking you, not the side. If he's attacking you because you disagree on how the income from notum should be distribued, then he's attacking you and the side since income is part of the clan/Omni conflict.

Our biggest problem is understanding what exactly clans and Omni are fighting over and when exactly do neutrals cross into that territory. The ability to mine notum is not exactly the conflict, but the income generated from the mining is in dispute and what the two sides are conflicting over.

The question, are neutrals invovling themselves in that aspect of the conflict by mining? Yes and no. If neutrals debate over the income of notum, then they are invovled. If they don't debate over the income of notum, then they are not invovled.

So, in regard to this neutral treaty, there is nothing to be said at the moment as neutrals have not yet crossed that line.

[UwensBack]

I'm not missing that point, I just don't agree with it. To me, if he attacks a clanner, he is attacking the clans. However, I suppose that it is naive to believe that clans who have different agendas would come together when one clanner is attacked. I guess I was also thinking of a more unified clans than we currently have now. If Slicse attacked Jypsie, he would be at war with OmniTek because thats how OmniTek functions. Therefore, he would not be neutral to them. Therefore, it is different when talking about the clans because we wouldn't come together when one is attacked. Or, at least, that is what I'm understanding from you. I know that if Slicse attacked me, he would be at war with VE. And being at war with VE would bring along EG. The income generated from the mines is not the only thing being fought over, nor was I under the impression that it is anywhere near the most important. The majority of arguments for rebellion I see are for a democratic system to be put in place. And I would not judge neutrality necessarily by the way one thinks, rather by the way one acts. If you attack, no matter what your ideas, I do not believe you are truly neutral.

[Aristaeus]

*walks in back from a succesful commission.*
* Sees on the left side people with fingers in their ears yelling at the top of their lungs: Nanananananananana I'm not listening since what you are trying to say doesn't match my world view, I'm not listening nanananananananana*
* sees on the right side a bunch of stubborn people rephrasing the same argument time and time again*
* shrugs and goes to a screen to take a look at this document people are yelling about*

* Gets out his PCA starts looking up some stuff*
Hmm lofty ideals just not realistic in the current enviroment.

Goal 1
will require more then just a small selection (that is 2) of the locations that generate not much notum.
The effort to keep those two locations free of towers will be massive. The current geopolitical situation requires that every resource available to be used by one of the two sides in the war for control of Rubi-Ka (or anyone who can get their foot in long enough to profit from having a complex up)

Goal 2

Holes in the Wall is already neutral only (or was when I last checked my info). Newland desert is to big to be able to be controlled by the current unaffiliated groups around. There are simply not enough people around to keep those locations. And when you combine it with the effort needed to keep the Newland locations empty.


Rules
1)
Only option you will ever have to get someone to move out of a location is to provide them with an equal or better location.
If you can do that why not kick them from the current area?
The people you kicked out of the other place will come over to level your purchased place.
Also if it gets known that you purchase land with land you will get other people to attack those current locations just to get you to take out someone else so you will look black for attacking and not them.

4) There is no definition of what is meant by an outlaw guild. This makes it possible to kick out everyone you want by just declaring them outlaw.

6) Not a rule. Seems more like something the people who set up the treaty didn't know how to do and are now tacticly suggesting a member of this treaty will do.

[Sumokan]

Greetings,

I only want to respond to Aristaeus since he has a better attention span then most people on this thread.

To Aristaeus I understand the treaty is vague and not clearly defined but that was intended. It is a rough draft so treaty members are free to define and vote on permanent changes.

The current NLC zone has two lmining locations, EO has one and recently helped IR aquire the other. EO will gladely give up its site for data and research for the treaty.

In the begining of Notum Wars we neutrals were actaully able to hold low to meduim level locations because all neutrals helped including NLF and Desert Winds. It was a proud moment when the neutrals beat back the Red Tigers guild at The longest Road base. Or when we all came and helped the IR base in Varment woods. Many of the older guilds remember this and that was the neutrals finest moment. When we put all our petty differences aside and actaully helped each other.

This treaty offers give and take from all orgs from the Borepac members to the Merc thugs in order to make life safer to all neutrals. So far Desert Winds has responded via comm. However the treaty needs more of the established orgs as well to make this happen such as the IR, CG and FTA. Lets not let a grand opportunity of coalitation building slip though our hands. Let us reason and argue to make neutrals a better place for RK as did Aristaeus.

P.S. Aristaeus contact me for more info sorry if I could not write so much but I am severely drunk atm.

Sincerely, Sumokan of Elite Operations

[Nyadach]

After consultation with both the govening council and the general populace of the IR, we have come to the decision that our best course of action is that of no action. We can not sign the treaty. But we can, as already provide defence and only that when its available.

[Sumokan]

At the New Land Sumo Burger Sumokan uses the computer terminal and types a message. And mumbles "damn Lions Den stole my computer as well."

To: Azzamon
From: Sumokan

Greetings and saulatations we have been out of touch for far too too long. EO and NLF has had a long history of mutaul cooperation in fighting and drinking EO never asked anything in return for some services due to friendship. I now humbly ask as a friend to grant me a favor. Allow me to meet with the ruling council and discuss the treaty and post your decision.

The Desert Winds are also interested in this treaty and I will ask them to come and sit during this meeting if you agree.

No matter what the outcome is EO and myself will respect your decision.

Sincerly, Sumokan of Elite Operations.

Sumo presses send on the old fashioned key board and hopes for the best. "Fry cook make me a Chimara Burger but hold the Onions".

[Aazamon]

To Sumokan

I will meet with with you to discuss your treaty Idea. I do believe your heart is in the right place, but I do not hold much faith that what you say will come close to meeting the needs of my people. I will however meet with anyone willing to discuss the problem of Notum depletion, and you have at least addressed this issue. I and my council will contact you with a time for a meeting.

[BugLight]

-


..... Frankly, I've heard enough of this "NEUT" wish-wash. I've been fair, and just in my dealings with them. I've done my part to help with the removal of the Sents and still support that movement..... but damn it, I'm just tired of hearing it.

-

You are NEUTRALS... you linger in the middle. You suposidly have no affilations but you suckle the omni teet for all its worth. My views are changing rapidly.... The time is drawing near where you will have to take a stand. You will either be with us or against us.

-

The neuts want ANOTHER treaty.... I'll gladly offer one up for you in the form of a lovely CLAN application.....

-



BAH!


-

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by BugLight
You are NEUTRALS... you linger in the middle. You suposidly have no affilations but you suckle the omni teet for all its worth. My views are changing rapidly.... The time is drawing near where you will have to take a stand. You will either be with us or against us.

Heard that one before somewhere...

Let's just clear one thing up here. Neuts are not people with no affiliations. Neuts are people who have no affiliations with Omni Tek or the clans.

The scientist, here on assignment to study Rubi-Ka's unique geology and biosphere, is neutral. He's not here to fight a war, just to study the wildlife. Save the Ottous!

The journalist, here to cover the war for his or her periodical or news agancy, is neutral. No point being biased when your audience may not identify fully with either side.

The ICC monitor, here to report on the conduct of both sides to the ICC itself, is neutral. All he wants is a stable situation and a steady flow of notum off-planet at a reasonable rate.

The mercenary, ready to hire out his skills to either side, is neutral (rare, but neutral ). After all, no point taking a political stance on something that's strictly business, is there?

The SOL Banking operative, here to subvert Omni Tek's business interests and create a niche for his own company to flourish in, is neutral. Not clan, because the clans are big enough that they may become a rival in their own right.

The mysterious and ascetic SSC adept, here to study the uses of notum in metallurgy, is neutral. Doesn't give a damn about the conflict, just the metal.

-----

In fact, there are innumerable people here on Rubi-Ka who are neutral because their primary links are neither to Omni-Tek nor to the clans. In some cases their affiliations lie off-planet, in some cases they're simply dedicated to another cause. The neutral who has no affiliations whatsoever may be the exception rather than the rule.

Cheers,

~R~

[Praecautus]

((how do you know someones affiliation IC without them telling you or by finding out by some other method? if your RPing with someone you have just met you have no idea to their affiliation, there is no red, blue or grey name floating over their heads. so bearing this in mind why bother with this entire 'your not neutral. yes i am' argument again and again. RP with the person and go on their IC actions and lets give this tired topic a rest))

[Duzytato]

Originally posted by Dr Tiny
((how do you know someones affiliation IC without them telling you or by finding out by some other method? RP with the person and go on their IC actions and lets give this tired topic a rest))

((Actually, you can tell by the token board. We as Clan or Omni, wear them with pride around our necks. Neutrals do not have the token board. So it is easy to tell from an RP perspective. I do agree whole heartedly about going on a persons IC actions. The problem exists, however, because people ignore their IC actions and still claim neutrality. So stupid arguments like this will exist, and continue.))

[Duzytato]

Originally posted by BugLight

You are NEUTRALS... you linger in the middle. You suposidly have no affilations but you suckle the omni teet for all its worth. My views are changing rapidly.... The time is drawing near where you will have to take a stand. You will either be with us or against us.

Bug, they are against us. Except Neutrals choose to be against Omni-Tek as well, so in that regard they are okay. As long as they don't interfere with Clan business they will be okay.

I don't call what the Neutrals are doing as "suckling on the teet". They are merely accepting help given to them. When did the Clans do anything to help the Neutrals. Oh yeah, the Sentinels took over Tir. We help the Neutrals to reclaim.

Omni-Tek is using that to their advantage by allowing the Mercs to "protect" Newland. So in the Neutral eye, Omni-Tek looks good while the clans look bad. Is that a reason to spew venom at Neutrals? What did they do? They stayed out of the conflict. It was Silverstone and his nutbag of Sentinels that forced the issue by occupying Tir.

[Aazamon]

(( guys, this is a neutral treaty thread, not a what you think neutrals should be thread. If you don't have some comment about the treaty please go away, thank you)).

[BugLight]

Originally posted by Aazamon
(( guys, this is a neutral treaty thread, not a what you think neutrals should be thread. If you don't have some comment about the treaty please go away, thank you)).

Neut treaty.... = your pick of a clan or ot app.... thank you please pull forward.

[Aristaeus]

Originally posted by BugLight


Neut treaty.... = your pick of a clan or ot app.... thank you please pull forward.

Nah, don't need either one of those crappy appartments. I already have a nice location at Ranch G.
You really don't get what unafilliated means otherwise you wouldn't be so desperate to get rid of us.
In my case I (and the company, Circle G, I work for) couldn't care less who pays my next salary. And the current situation is such that both sides of the conflict can use mercenaries. Still feel bad that we lost out on that protect NLC deal though. We never thought that someone would work for peanuts.