Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 164

Thread: A Treaty for Neutrals

  1. #21
    Nya has that age old problem of confusing pacifism with neutrality. He could very well be Omni or Clan and still embrace the ideals of his org.

    What does shooting someone have to do with taking a stance? Politics are in your mind and not necessarily chambered in the barrel of a weapon.

    Let me put it this way ... if an armada of pointy fanged and Ian-powered aliens landed on Rubi'Ka and started killing Omni and Clan people and stuck mines in the ground, I would absolutely consider them neutral in terms of everything I know about Rubi'Kan politics.

  2. #22
    I find this whole Newland Treaty interesting. I do not have first hand information on it however, being away on a scientific expedition only getting communications from home once in a while, but I can say this.

    At first it looked interesting. The Desert Winds have always been for making Rubi-Ka a planet with a stable ecology. This tower business seem to have made a lot of people forget that. I, as Trisagiona without the General in front, thought maybe making this compromise would be a good thing. Newland lake beeing a valuable breeding area for several different species, and being a body of water on this desert planet.

    Unfortunatly, agreeing to this will require us to "scrap" BORPAC which of course is out of the question. We still believe that extensive mining harms the planet, not only do we not know enough about the notum reserves. The towers supression gas continually disturbs wildlife.. in some areas driving animals from their natural habitat.

    A compromise withing BORPAC might have been reached, as we all know we have to give some to get some. The Newland Treaty itself, however, does not seem to be interested in giving way.

    If this treaty was ever thought of as a possible bridge between BORPAC and the "neutral" community, Rule 3 shuts the door in our face.

    Trisagiona
    President Anisha "Trisagiona" Kenley of the Desert Winds

    "Here is the price of freedom:
    Your every drop of courage,
    ounce of pain, pint of blood.
    Paid in advance."

  3. #23
    Who said I was a pacifist? Its just a believe more can be accomplished by getting utter ratted drunk and coming up with a plan than can ever be accomplished with a gun....and you usually come out of it a bit better also, if not for the hangover but am sure we have some stims around for that somewhere.

    As for those who didn't like the idea of removing the shoot first policy, it all goes to what has happened over the last 8 months since we got that policy change. The number of people who have now sneaked out of there old lives in Omni and the Clans and haven taken up refuge as a neut, only to go on a rampage under a new hiden life style so there true backers arn't seen lowers everyone and tarnishes us all in there attacks. I still make a point of going for a walk around Tir...why? because I can. I don't have a problem with it, most of the Clanners don't have a problem with it. The Commanders might not like it but hell, thats gonna be there problem if they wish to start something. The same goes for the Omnis and our abilities to mix with them all. Can't we be the bridge to bring the Clans and Omni closer together and find a common path? do we really just have to sit and provoke them even more? We can help them, and ourselves by trying to knit them both back together again through talking and meeting each other. The only people who are winning out of continued fighting is the arms dealers.
    Major "Nyadach" Prabel
    Neutral and proud of it!

  4. #24
    Greetings,

    posted by Necc:
    Newland City is already mine free. If on the other hand you mean the area outside the City itself, maybe that needs to be specified. Otherwise you might have trouble with people picking it apart, and people do that here.

    How right you are about picking the treaty apart Necc I will try to answer some questions. Keep in mind that this is a ROUGH DRAFT the only way to formalize this treaty is by members coming together and TALKINIG.

    To Necc: The New Land City ZONE I am refering to consist of the two mining spots outside of New Land City to be placed as a Mine Free Zone.

    To Trisagiona: Thank you for your interest in treaty. Again this is a rough draft and hopefully at the very least a compromise will be reached to the BOREPAC members. The most important issue is getting BOREPAC and Non BOREPAC members to talk.

    To Nyadach: This treaty has nothing to do with the New Land Mercs. I defer to EOs original statement on how and when the New Land Mercs will leave.

    To Glarawyn: No, "outlaw" guilds for lack of a better term are guilds clan/omni or even neutral who attack, grief and pretty much are *******s to the neutral community. Since those guilds do not show any respect to neutrals they do not have as far as I am concerned any right to be oour neighbors and must be evicted from neutral lands. This is just my opinion mind you the treaty members will make the final call on how to handle this I am only laying down something to work with as a rough draft.

    If any org wishes to ask more questions about this please message President Pryomance or myself. The most important thing is to stay focused, talk and compromise to make the neutral community have a beginning power base without compromising basic principles.

    Sincerely, Sumokan of Elite Operations.

  5. #25
    Originally posted by Nyadach

    As for those who didn't like the idea of removing the shoot first policy, it all goes to what has happened over the last 8 months since we got that policy change. The number of people who have now sneaked out of there old lives in Omni and the Clans and haven taken up refuge as a neut, only to go on a rampage under a new hiden life style so there true backers aren’t seen lowers everyone and tarnishes us all in there attacks. ....(snip). The only people who are winning out of continued fighting is the arms dealers.
    Hey Nyd, you know what? If you don’t like some of the new neutral arrivals because of the right to shoot first, then by all means be selective with whom you recruit. All neut guilds have the option to pick and choose diamonds from the rough rather than have an open admission policy. But is far better to speak for yourself instead of preaching to the ICC for a HUGE step back in neutral human rights like you have already done. Oh booo hoo you don’t like how other guilds operate, well let me remind you that neuts are not a faction, so expecting all of them to conform to your perfect little idea of a world is an exercise in futility.

    Maybe it’s just me, but I’d rather accept neut guilds differences and instead focus on what we all have in common to hammer out a treaty. That would be far more effective than bickering about who’s excrement doesn't stink according to you.
    Last edited by Lady Kali; May 14th, 2003 at 14:26:26.

  6. #26
    *Cosmik*
    Guest
    Does the rabble of a council, or commitee, or asylum, or whatever that runs your 'neutral' cities have an interest in the education of it's people? Because, it occurs to me, that you neutrals could use some basic cranial amelioration.

    Do you not realise, that by asking for a treaty you are acknowledging you are involved directly in a conflict with another side, and thereby foregoing your 'neutral' status? Do you not realise that by petitioning for 'neutral' areas, you are moulding yourself into a side of the greater conflict, thereby transforming into the entity you feverntly deny to be: a side?

    You 'neutrals' can do so much better than this; and I don't mean by creating a better soapbox to stand on. I think it's time you, once and for all, got off the fence, looked deep into the shadowed depths of your soul, and stood next to those who fight for your ideals.

    It's time to stop running from the fight.

  7. #27
    Originally posted by Lady Kali
    All neut guilds have the option to pick and choose diamonds from the rough rather than have an open admission policy. But is far better to speak for yourself instead of preaching to the ICC for a HUGE step back in neutral human rights like you have already done.
    Just look at this last week at new folks popping up all over. Heck look at the soon popped up neut org which then proceeded in immediatly picking fights with Omni and other Neut bases. Can someone say Clanners in Neuts clothing here? This is what I am refering too. The number of neutrals has gone up over 1000% since the gun changes? why...because it makes it easy to start up fights and the true culprits get away with it. There are many differing ideals out there which make up the collective group known as Neutrals, and that should be encouraged. BUT having the whole of the neutrality exploited in the way that the Clans and Omni are currently using is, is something which needs to be stopped. The shoot first idea was just that, and idea as to a solution to get rid of these types from our midst.

    As for recruitment I am happy with those people who do go to the established neutral organisations...but they do have there own ideals and goals for the membership and for how they see life on Rubi-ka. The big thing I see nibbling away at everything that is neutral is these imposters, for want of a better word to describe them who are using us all.

    Originally posted by Lady Kali
    Maybe it’s just me, but I’d rather accept neut guilds differences
    And in your treaty you have the lovely agree with us or get booted out policy...yep thats living with differances for ya.

    Originally posted by Cosmik
    Do you not realise, that by asking for a treaty you are acknowledging you are involved directly in a conflict with another side, and thereby foregoing your 'neutral' status?
    Yes, thereby as such the Clans and Omni can go grab a few beers with us, and we'll sit down and sort this out properly....over a nice game of urmmm I would say Chess but thats maybe a bit too complex for the current Omni and Clanners out there so how about noughts n crosses
    Major "Nyadach" Prabel
    Neutral and proud of it!

  8. #28
    *Cosmik*-

    Ah, a very elaborate "pick a side" post, however still the same as the other 1,000,000,000 of them I've read in my lifetime.

  9. #29
    *Cosmik*
    Guest
    The Clans are definatly not free. Look at the nut who seized control of Tir? Look at the number of terrorist activities the Clans have done in the last year.

    Not free? Not FREE?? How is freedom not at a pinnacle when a man can be placed into the role of Administrator of Tir without having to answer to deluded Omni-Tek structure and laws? How is freedon not embodied when some Clan member, any Clan member, can take up arms against those that try to take away that exact choice to take up arms?

    It could be said that freedom, true Freedom, is in the eye of the beholder. I say you need some damn good optical enhancers if you think freedom is being a Neutral, sitting on the side of the pitch, watching two teams go head to head and then complaining when one team heads home to sleep with the cheerleaders. Freedom is living the amount of freedom you have, and always wanting...no...always busting a gut for more regardless of opponents. That is exactly what Clanners live every day of their free lives.

  10. #30
    *Cosmik*
    Guest
    Originally posted by Lady Kali
    *Cosmik*-

    Ah, a very elaborate "pick a side" post, however still the same as the other 1,000,000,000 of them I've read in my lifetime.
    Maybe the universe is giving you a subtle hint then, eh?

  11. #31
    *Cosmik*
    Guest
    Yes, thereby as such the Clans and Omni can go grab a few beers with us, and we'll sit down and sort this out properly....over a nice game of urmmm I would say Chess but thats maybe a bit too complex for the current Omni and Clanners out there so how about noughts n crosses

    I'm not too sure what you are aiming at there, but you know, Nyadach, if I was ever forced to like a Neutral, you'd be....well.....you'd make the short... Well, it wouldn't be for very long.


  12. #32
    Originally posted by *Cosmik*
    Does the rabble of a council, or commitee, or asylum, or whatever that runs your 'neutral' cities have an interest in the education of it's people? Because, it occurs to me, that you neutrals could use some basic cranial amelioration.
    Fancy namecalling but still name calling. I don't need a better skull.

    You 'neutrals' can do so much better than this; and I don't mean by creating a better soapbox to stand on. I think it's time you, once and for all, got off the fence, looked deep into the shadowed depths of your soul, and stood next to those who fight for your ideals.

    It's time to stop running from the fight. [/B]
    What fence, there is no fence. There is only a disagremeent between two groups over who should own Rubi-Ka. I don't care who owns Rubi-Ka. I do care that there are two parties fighting to determine who own it. That creates work for mercenary outfits like the one I am part of.
    It is just a problem of misguided people like you that the moment I take a payment from omni/clan for a job to neutralize a clan/omni target our outfit gets branded omni/clan.
    Proud member of Circle G.
    We solve your problems on Rubi-Ka 1.(if the price is right)

  13. #33
    Originally posted by Nyadach


    Just look at this last week at new folks popping up all over. Heck look at the soon popped up neut org which then proceeded in immediatly picking fights with Omni and other Neut bases.. (snip)… The shoot first idea was just that, and idea as to a solution to get rid of these types from our midst.
    ((of course people who play sided characters are going to make neutral alts, they did it before too. It’s nothing new. Clan and Omni have the same problems with this sort of thing as well. It’s not a unique problem that only neuts have a issues with. I think you also forget that the lack of a token board is even more effective deterrent. Taking away neutrals right to shoot first is PVP absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have heard coming from another neutral player. Seriously. That will gimp neuts back to the stone age, I see nothing beneficial about the way things were before that outweighs having the right to self-preservation. Not being able to attack was strangle-hold for every neutral player to be nothing but a pacifist except in terms of RP. Those days were SO limiting it made PVP (which is a very important and element) virtually out of reach unless you filled out an application- not fun in my book! So you want things back the way they were? With neutral’s hands tied behind their back just because you don’t like omni and clan making neutral alts? Wake up, neuts, omni and clan have always made, and will always continue to make, alts with different alignments. Roll with the punches and try to make the most of it.))

    Originally posted by Nyadach

    And in your treaty you have the lovely agree with us or get booted out policy...yep thats living with differances for ya.
    First of all that’s not the way a democratic treaty counsel works and you know it, people who don’t agree with the treaty in the first place have the option of NOT JOINING!! OMG THE NOVELTY!!! Is your head exploding yet? A democratic counsel of guilds sounds pretty cooperative to me. Second, any decisions made by a democratic vote is much more desirable than having someone like you calling the shots based off your personal dislikes and prejudices.

    Yes, go and have your beer and crunchy, cheap peanuts.

  14. #34
    Originally posted by *Cosmik*

    Maybe the universe is giving you a subtle hint then, eh?
    Likewise, with all the neutrals using your precious applications as toilet paper one could say the same to you.

  15. #35
    Starting to get sick of (now even ex-) 'powers that be' wasting Gridfeed bits and bytes pretending to know what makes a Neutral tick. Really sickening. Damned if you don't got some of the most interesting and popular topics of discussion over the last months related to people of independant thought and mind and yet the greying autocracy still cling like mules outfitted with blinders to some agenda intended to ensure that Rubi'Ka never becomes alive and vibrant as a place to develop one's character, but instead continues to fester as some sort of freakish abberration where one is expected to not think or act how they wish, rather only how 'Worthless Leader O' or 'Worthless Leader C' tell you to act. Three cheers for the lemmings!! Hip, hip, hurray!

    Three cheers for the man behind the curtain pulling the levers! He certainly has an exciting Vision of a world where one can evolve to fulfill their destiny as long as you only wear the red pants or the blue pants.


    ((OOC- Yeah, that's in-character. But, I sometimes forget I give people too much credit when I lapse into a belief that there are actually some people who can think. I gotta stay away from these forums as they get my blood to boiling. The Omni-vs-Clan thing is a failure. There never was impetus to engage in it and still isn't. That's the fault of the game designers. They attempted with Notum Wars and unfortunately based it on PvP. They didn't attract a substantial amount of people into the 'conflict', only temporarily got a few people to stop leveling every so often. The fact that FunCom is doing everything in their power to attempt to squash role-playing, as even witnessed by the indoctrinated ex-employee in this thread, shows me how little faith they have in their programming abilities. It should be quite clear that the main reason we don't have 3, 4, or 5 'factions' in the game is because any more than two is a programming burden. We all know that multiple factions leads to a more interesting and involved tableau. Even if only 2 are dominant, the remaining monkey wrenches give color to the world. The stubbornness shown by the developers in trying to enforce their Vision(TM) on an unwilling playerbase serves neither party well, with the exception of making the game's stiff database structure apply to items and PvP rules better. 'Yes or No' is a much easier question to apply to a database field than 'Who are your friends?'

    Make no mistake that a large majority of all this push for Clans vs. Omni being the only thing this damn game is about stems from the lack of desire to put for the effort to create something more interesting by going through the drudgery of having to have look-up tables rather than booleans in the database structure. (Man, I would want to throttle whoever originally did the db layout for this game, if I were a story person or game director, it's so limited in so many ways)

    Why is it so hard to understand that some people could give a horse's poop about the Clan vs. Omni 'conflict'? Maybe, I'll care about the goings on in the Shadowlands (that is if you allow me to make a choice and not try to cram it down my throat). FunCom's biggest mistakes:

    - Homogenizing the Clans. Having them as one 'faction' means 'you are either with them or against them'. Well, given those choices and seeing what I see of them in-game, I guess according to that definition, I'm against them.

    - Abandoning the Story. Why do so many of us not give a crap? Well, if the Story people don't care to develop Ross/Radiman/Sergyevich/Tucker/ and the Clan vs. Omni 'conflict' then whey should we care? At one time, I followed the developments of the story with an anticipation that I've never been affected by in any other online diversion. I 'tuned in' constantly to see what was going and was making assessments of all parties involved. I probably would have 'picked a side' much to the satisfaction of FunCom, if the events continued to unfold.

    - Thinking the Notum 'Wars' (lol) is a valid substitute for Story or in any way represents the 'conflict'. It's just a bunch of kids playing a big game of Team Fortress Classic. You can understand the increasing disinterest in this diversion and why it is being overtaken by exploiters and small orgs devoted to that aspect of the game and only that aspect of the game(without regard to the 'conflict') simply because Notum 'Wars' has no soul. It's an empty pursuit made empty mainly because of a flawed implementation. It's near impossible to truly engage in any meaningful battles against one's arch-rivals in any manner that would make a victory or defeat meaningful.

    - Abandoning their core Story. The old beta site and now-near-hidden resources on the current Story site, actually had an engaging story. It's hard to actually focus on the Clan vs. Omni 'conflict' when all we got in game are Dragons, Cultists, Wizards, Zombies, Orcs, Elves, and whatever else you want to add to the campfest list. You expect people to even remember that Clan and Omni are more than Team Blue and Team Red and yet nothing is done to make people care. You fail even at reinforcing the flawed concept of Black vs. White. The fact that people at level 195 change sides for the sake of a gun or a piece of armor is blatant proof that people just don't care about 'killing a Clanner today', and rather care more about killing Pat/Ris/Peter/Ian/Nirtox/Ljotur/Lamb/Kronilus.

    You guys never should have told me to 'pick a side'. If you hadn't tried so hard, if you hadn't made the loss of my Independance permanent, if you allowed the sides to develop identity, if you endowed orgs with more power in relation to 'factions' than we see today, if I didn't feel like I was selling my soul, then I'd probably have used an application form by now.

    Spewing the 'get off the fence if you want some love from Gaute' mantra isn't going to accomplish anything. Perhaps actually listening to their customers for once will.
    ))

  16. #36
    Originally posted by *Cosmik*

    Not free? Not FREE?? How is freedom not at a pinnacle when a man can be placed into the role of Administrator of Tir without having to answer to deluded Omni-Tek structure and laws? How is freedon not embodied when some Clan member, any Clan member, can take up arms against those that try to take away that exact choice to take up arms?
    The clans are free in the near total power vacuum, remember to pillage before your burn, every man for himself type of free. The Rule of the Gun, you know, Anarchy.

    What about Clan members who reside in Tir? Are they free, or has an oppressing force been imposed on them from within their own ranks? I see the CoT as at least being generally agreed upon by the major clans. The ICC had no business what-so-ever sticking their peacekeepers into Tir, but the Sentinels don't have any more right to declare themselves the administrators of Tir than any other Clan. No one Clan should be declaring themselves the administrator of the Clan capitol city.

    Simon Silverstone has shown his true colors in my opinion: A power hungry oppressor. If the Sentinels achieve their goal of total annihilation of Omni-Tek and its employees, what will stop Silverstone from turning his guns onto remaining Clan members who disagree with him? Will it be his way or perma-death?

    Ohter disorganized ramblings on neutrality and freedom here.

    Edit: I can't spell today.
    Last edited by Glarawyn; May 14th, 2003 at 16:45:08.
    Glarawyn L220 OT Adventurer
    It's good to be furry.
    ----
    Lilredhot L220 OT Enforcer
    Don't mind me, I tank without a helmet.
    ----
    Gunslinger19 L150 OT Soldier
    There's a word for people who think everyone's out to get them: perceptive.

  17. #37
    *Cosmik*
    Guest
    Originally posted by Aristaeus

    What fence, there is no fence. There is only a disagremeent between two groups over who should own Rubi-Ka. I don't care who owns Rubi-Ka. I do care that there are two parties fighting to determine who own it. That creates work for mercenary outfits like the one I am part of.
    It is just a problem of misguided people like you that the moment I take a payment from omni/clan for a job to neutralize a clan/omni target our outfit gets branded omni/clan.

    Hmm? I never branded you, nor any other 'neutral', one side or the other. And I have no qualms about making money off of a conflict. That's the true enterprising spirit.

    My itch stems from bunches of so-called 'neutrals' that want to be treated fairly, as an equal group, and who want to have a stake in this conflict. That's not being neutral. That's just 'not picking a side'. So to those people I say, get off the fence.

  18. #38
    *Cosmik*
    Guest
    Originally posted by Lady Kali


    Likewise, with all the neutrals using your precious applications as toilet paper one could say the same to you.
    I never sent out those applications to be part of the Rubi-Ka Welcome Wagon. It was obviously some misguided poor son of a... in the Council of Truth.

    Use them in the construction of your tinfoil hats for all I care. Those citizens that want freedom will know where to stand.

  19. #39
    I don't think you would find them in Tir. Glarawyn has explained why that is the case very well, I couldn't agree with her more.

  20. #40
    *Cosmik*
    Guest
    Originally posted by Lady Kali
    I don't think you would find them in Tir. Glarawyn has explained why that is the case very well, I couldn't agree with her more.
    I fail to see how one clan installing a new Administrator to deal with the anarchy that befell Tir after the Council of Truth packed up and left is classified as oppression. A renewal of strength was needed in Tir after the Council of Truth fled to ensure that no basic facilities were ignored and the protection of Tir was maintained. I fail to see one single mistake or bad move High Commander Fisk has made that as impacted upon the freedom on the citizens of Tir. Everyone is free to come and go as they wish, say what they wish, live as they wish.

    In fact, High Commander Fisk has made one of the better moves in the history of Tir - ensuring Tir is left to the clans, and the clans alone, to enjoy as they wish.

Page 2 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •