Root Changes will Destroy pvp

[__________averagejoe]

You got it right on sjoko. An adventurer with a beam should be able to do as well as an enforcer. ----- And can do exactly that. A good adventurer knows that he is not there to simply do damage. Yeah he can help out; provide support. But where he shines is that while he is dealing damage he is also provideing heals for his team. This is absolutely invaluable.

So is the adventurer as good as the enforcer. Well he is just as valuable in group RvR that is for sure. But they are two completely differnt classes. You simply cannot compare them by standing there 1 on 1 dealing all the damage you can deal and seeing who drops first. This is what has lead to all the nerfs and screweyness with all the classes. The game needs to be balaced in a way that everyone shines in thier own way.

But here is the problem. PvE. Well this is easy fixed. Look at it for what it is. => Completely different then PvP and a totally seperate beast. What changes in PvP should not effect any changes in PvE. And good god do I know what you mean about the debuffs in missions. Don't know why but they always seem to get that debuff off just before they die. That is such a pain in the arse. And mesures should be taken to correct that (i.e. make the debuff drop when the person/mob that cast it dies) , but this is the PvP forum and I do not want to post anymore on this here.

[______________Yazule]

Averagejoe

Yes, did forget to mention

If they attack you the root should break and you go back to melee. (yes the root system does need to be fixed to break when you take damage. I think I failed to mention this fact in my last post. My mistake and my appologies)

and without that everything you said is utter BULL, not trolling, stating a fact

However, if you are not attacked you should have plenty of time to switch to a range weapon and do some damage to help your team. Measly maybe. Up to how you build your char.

again you are NUTS, there is NOBODY below level 120ish that pvp's with success unless they overequip their weapon even if only slightly. That alone kills this idea because you need to self arm to switch out. NOBODY has the IP's to pick up a shotgun etc when they are a melee class until High level. My enforcer WILL have a shotgun, but not til level 155 or so.

What class and level are you? How often do you pvp? what is your title? I would like to know where you get your info. Enforcers and MA's should NOT be required to use a ranged weapon to be vialble in pvp.

I dont know if you have noticed it, but there is not a whole lot of Team pvp in the game. This is probably because there is no titles for teams.

I consider you pretty clueless about this whole thing. Either

1) you dont pvp
or
2) you dont pvp with a melee class


The origional poster is Snarf, an NT, a ROOTER. He knows what it will do, and he is a Rooting melee fighter (he does not use a gun, but has nukes). Not only that he is a very experienced pvper.

Now you enlighten us as to your super duper experience base and tell us where this wisdom is coming from.

Look at my sig, Dnastyone is a rookie
I have a 64 NT (no title)
35 Trader (freshman)
39 Meta (freshman)
25 MA (freshman)

What you are saying is not correct. If you want troll you will get troll and you dont know what your talking about.

[__________averagejoe]

Quote:

again you are NUTS, there is NOBODY below level 120ish that pvp's with success unless they overequip their weapon even if only slightly. That alone kills this idea because you need to self arm to switch out. NOBODY has the IP's to pick up a shotgun etc when they are a melee class until High level. My enforcer WILL have a shotgun, but not til level 155 or so.

Exactly, you have to build your character into this cookie cutter uber supertwink overequipt whatever to do good in 1 on 1 combat. If that is your thing fine. But that is not what this game is about. Does the story line mean anything to you? Its supposed to be a war. Not nice nifty one on one ARENA combat. Which is what i assume you are talking about. (oh hiding out in a 75% safe zone only leaving to duel someone is ARENA combat as well its no differn't. This is what the Arenas where set up for.)

Quote:
I dont know if you have noticed it, but there is not a whole lot of Team pvp in the game. This is probably because there is no titles for teams.


Um this is exactly my point if you have read any of my other post. There is no team PvP in this game. Titles are worthless except for braging rights, again this is set up for arena combat compatitions
and possible tourniments. Thats it. That is not what the PvP should be about. The actuall supposed war out there is supposed to be fought by teams of players. 1 on 1 combat in this game is a joke. If this is what you want, then again i say; take it to the ARENA or go play a First Person Shooter. That is not what the PvP should be about.

This is getting off topic go to this post for more:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=12840


Quote:
Now you enlighten us as to your super duper experience base and tell us where this wisdom is coming from. If you want troll you will get troll and you dont know what your talking about.

Back off arsehole;
I have everyright to post my oppinion on the matter as much as you. You want to flame fine do it somewhere else.

[____________Meligant]

Originally posted by averagejoe
ok was waiting for that flame.

Quote:
)1 you talk about tactics there is NO tactic for a root unless your an enforcer

Exactly, that's why its a root. If it doesn't root, then there is no point in it is there. Roots should break when you take damage. Period. (although self damage is kinda off base, should be damage from your enemy or there again is no point in a root)

Roots are used for team tactics. To keep the melee from doing damge. That simple. If you get rooted you sit and wait till the root breaks. WAAAAAHHH. Get over it. That is why you have a team with you. To try and cover you arse while you are disabled.

....deleted for space....

I would support your idea of "team tactics" if there was actually some "team goals". At the moment we have "Single Player Title Quests" and “ganking”. Maybe by the time I qualify to PvP (level 155 it seems for a soldier) we will have forts that can be taken and other rewards/reasons to get involved "in the conflict". Until then, roots just hose the melee classes who are fighting for title points.

PS - After reading the rest of the thread, I will say that coming to the boards to TELL me/others the way PvP SHOULD be according to you is not a good way to support your points.

[_______________Snarf]

> in other words, nerf roots.

No, my point was that they should be left alone. Currently they give rooting profs a measurable advantage, but nothing overpowered.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by averagejoe
Quote:

again you are NUTS, there is NOBODY below level 120ish that pvp's with success unless they overequip their weapon even if only slightly. That alone kills this idea because you need to self arm to switch out. NOBODY has the IP's to pick up a shotgun etc when they are a melee class until High level. My enforcer WILL have a shotgun, but not til level 155 or so.

Exactly, you have to build your character into this cookie cutter uber supertwink overequipt whatever to do good in 1 on 1 combat. If that is your thing fine. But that is not what this game is about. Does the story line mean anything to you? Its supposed to be a war. Not nice nifty one on one ARENA combat. Which is what i assume you are talking about. (oh hiding out in a 75% safe zone only leaving to duel someone is ARENA combat as well its no differn't. This is what the Arenas where set up for.)

Quote:
I dont know if you have noticed it, but there is not a whole lot of Team pvp in the game. This is probably because there is no titles for teams.


Um this is exactly my point if you have read any of my other post. There is no team PvP in this game. Titles are worthless except for braging rights, again this is set up for arena combat compatitions
and possible tourniments. Thats it. That is not what the PvP should be about. The actuall supposed war out there is supposed to be fought by teams of players. 1 on 1 combat in this game is a joke. If this is what you want, then again i say; take it to the ARENA or go play a First Person Shooter. That is not what the PvP should be about.

This is getting off topic go to this post for more:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=12840


Quote:
Now you enlighten us as to your super duper experience base and tell us where this wisdom is coming from. If you want troll you will get troll and you dont know what your talking about.

Back off arsehole;
I have everyright to post my oppinion on the matter as much as you. You want to flame fine do it somewhere else.

You dont like my flames then dont post here, or post something that in some way makes some kind of sense. You dont know what your talking about, your obviously either going to gain MASSIVELY from this or your ignorant of the facts.

If you are going to pvp sucessfully in AO you have to do damage, and lots of it. There are few non-cookie cutter pvpers, for a reason, there is no room for anything but the best equiptment.

I have posted a number of times that team pvp needs to be encouraged, it does not in any way pertain to how ROOTS will effect pvp. there is AE roots too you know, making team pvp just as messed up.


Your unrealistic and you have no idea what you say. Keep replying, I will keep telling you how much you dont know about it. If you give me something to support what you are saying besides "find a friend to fight with" then I may lighten up on you.

Before the 50/40 damage caps I was talking to a solja that I could not beat even though he was green to me. You know what he said "get a team if you want to beat me". Meaning that he alone was unstoppable in pvp unless a team ganked him. So telling me to "find friends to fight with" is bs. What you are saying is "rooters and ranged people can solo pvp and melee guys need to find friends with the skills to kill"

How dumb is that.

Get a clue.

If you dont want to hear more on this then "Back off arsehole" and dont reply.

[Whiterrabbit]

nerfs are made based on pvp, and we all know that about 5% of players get involved, im a casual pvper, i go to mmd, and look for someone yellow who isnt twinked to hell to fight. (twinks scaring people away from pvp is another thread entirely).

so why should all rooting classes suffer a massive nerf, just so you can remain a god in pvp?

im still not sure about the changes, are they a good idea? time will tell, but nerfing roots is like FC cancelling a few hundred accounts...

edit who wanted to nerf roots and snares? did anyone, or am i talking to myself, i cant remember if i saw it here... that my friends is what canabis does to your short term memory

[______________Yazule]

Nobody wants to nerf roots fish, the new patch will make them god though.

[Whiterrabbit]

ill just shut up then i think, unless anyone likes me arguing with myself


after the patch hits live, there will be plenty of people asking for nerfs to roots... i can feel it

[______________Yazule]

ayup, yet another reason not to change them!

I hate nerfs, but when they overpower stuff like this (for pvp mind you) then you have to scream for a nerf.

The reason I am posting on this thread is to try to stop a future nerf.

There has to be SOME way for someone to try to break a root. Leaving them helpless is just not a good option. Now my enforcer does not have to worry about this with rage, but I dont like to see any class (esp my gimped MA brothers) get shafted like this.

[garpenlov]

Maybe I missed something, but I thought that the only thing changing was that simply executing a hostile nanoprogram on yourself won't break root, but if you damage yourself somehow, then you'd be ok. So, if you're a trader you can team heal and let the DOT break roots, doctors and agents can cast their weakest poisons on themselves for root breakers, everyone else can either nuke themselves or cast that general nano on themselves that does like 10 points of damage... I forget the name, which might be because it doesn't exist, in which case never mind.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by garpenlov
Maybe I missed something, but I thought that the only thing changing was that simply executing a hostile nanoprogram on yourself won't break root, but if you damage yourself somehow, then you'd be ok. So, if you're a trader you can team heal and let the DOT break roots, doctors and agents can cast their weakest poisons on themselves for root breakers, everyone else can either nuke themselves or cast that general nano on themselves that does like 10 points of damage... I forget the name, which might be because it doesn't exist, in which case never mind.

well I dont play on test, but I have a friend that does. From what he says you need to have quite a bit of damage done to you to break a root now. Besides, what can an MA do to break the root? It is the MA that gets hosed in this deal more than anyone (and adv using melee).

[____________Arterous]

I have to totally disagree with this. Why on earth would they leave roots the way they are? They specifically stated that it wasn't working as intended. Debuffing yourself to make a root go away? Sounds really silly in the first place, but since that is the way it has always been, does that mean that they need to leave it broken?

They honestly need to fix roots... BUT.... They also need to fix Nano resist AND give a few professions other than 1 a way to break roots. An epsilon purge type nano that is general, and different levels of them also. It would be stupid to have a ql10 root breaker have the ability to make Burden Of Atlas (highest NT root) break. Balance, that is what is needed. And fixing roots is welcome in my book as long as they don't half ass it and just make debuffs not work...

[_______________Sjoko]

Originally posted by Snarf
> in other words, nerf roots.

No, my point was that they should be left alone. Currently they give rooting profs a measurable advantage, but nothing overpowered.

Seriously, if they make the roots the way some people describe, let them last for a much shorter duration.

So nerf'em where the sun doesn't shine.

[______canadian bacon]

Anyone here ever play Ultima Online and pvp? UO worked fine and the paralyze spell was broken the same way. You had a magic trapped pouch in your inv and when you got para'd you opened it and it hit you for 1 dmg and you were free. That's how it worked, and it worked fine, the people who knew what they were doing had a stockpile of pouches, the ones who didn't got paralyzed and mindblasted to ****.

[_____________Cloudeh]

Im glad im an enforcer.

[Claire]

All u whiners have doomed the roots change
b4 its even implemented! Not suprised by the nerf cries from snarf (nt-ma)and other players that use melee weapons.
The stun was nerfed within 48 hours!! That should tell u
that if indeed root should turn out to be this monster u
are all describing it as, it will be delt with fast.

Start thinking a little creative on how to deal with a new
situation, instad of whining or lungs out. Stop beeing so
scared bout changes, atleast give it a try first.

Claire

[Whiterrabbit]

Originally posted by Sjoko


Seriously, if they make the roots the way some people describe, let them last for a much shorter duration.

So nerf'em where the sun doesn't shine.

Originally posted by me
nerfs are made based on pvp, and we all know that about 5% of players get involved, im a casual pvper, i go to mmd, and look for someone yellow who isnt twinked to hell to fight. (twinks scaring people away from pvp is another thread entirely).

so why should all rooting classes suffer a massive nerf, just so you can remain a god in pvp?

im still not sure about the changes, are they a good idea? time will tell, but nerfing roots is like FC cancelling a few hundred accounts...

edit who wanted to nerf roots and snares? did anyone, or am i talking to myself, i cant remember if i saw it here... that my friends is what canabis does to your short term memory

damn im good, pre-emptive strike or what?

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Claire
All u whiners have doomed the roots change
b4 its even implemented! Not suprised by the nerf cries from snarf (nt-ma)and other players that use melee weapons.
The stun was nerfed within 48 hours!! That should tell u
that if indeed root should turn out to be this monster u
are all describing it as, it will be delt with fast.

Start thinking a little creative on how to deal with a new
situation, instad of whining or lungs out. Stop beeing so
scared bout changes, atleast give it a try first.

Claire

Well as I said, I dont play test, but I have a good friend that does, and he has told me all about it.
All melee people that are not enforcers are no longer going to be able to play pvp at all. Root will garuntee that they will lose due to the lack of abilty to damage.

One of my pvpers is an enforcer, he dont mind. The other big pvper I have is a trader and it will be a boon for him. Dont matter that it wont affect me, it will effect a lot of my friends.\

And anything that will have less people pvping is a bad Idea in my book, impossible to find a fight at it is on RK2

[Adjust]

Just gonna have my say on rooting

/mindless drivvle starts

My theory of pvp is that no class should be unbeatable. That if u had a selection of equal lvl ppl with equal skill no 1 class should omniate. Infact i would like for FC to do this, test see what happens, who wins, who really needs the fix. But i am not of the opinion that any class should, when of equal skill, have the chance to beat another class. Sort of like scissors, paper, and stone.

However the problem is that this "proper" implementation of roots is going to mess up certain classes who are already in a bad place, i.e. MAs and melee adv. I agree that if u use melee your chances are not good. Luckily on RBK2 (form the omni point of view) not many clanners who can root play much. When Trystar (clan fixer) plays grontha, shtylez and co must be cursing there day. I would include MAs here but there isn't exactly a bountiful amount of Omni MAs fighting, execpt Nutbar who attempted to charge about 12 of us in 2ho, single handidly, I have rarely seen such bravery/insanity, /me salutes you. My point is tho that if MAs where insanley hard when close up then i would have less of a problem. Then it would be about sneaking about buildings in 2ho, using the speed of a MA to get in close and then it would be all over for the NT. But this is not the case, perhaps new rules will change it , don't know yet. But as of this time MAs will peck away, Nt simply can then root, hell he can go zone heal him self up then come back. I think thats another problem I will have the ability to zone and heal, i mean u can solve it by /terming but it seems a little silly. Last time i played a ma it was pre 50% dmg and i didn't know about root breaking exploits, and u could take down some rooters, get i fast Dimach/BwT/Brawl was death most times, just needed that 1 break. But with 50% and these roots traders are going to own big time. If ur opponent has less range than u, u can root and go thro all ur debuffs stacking them up for some massive penalty, hell even if they do have range u have time to pull back and use first aid to get back some health(assuming opponent has no root).

However a solution is not easy to see. An immediate an obvious 1st point is that any hostile action against a person rooting should immediatly break root. Also i believe NR should be made more effective vs rooting, come on FC i have about 500-600 NR (can't remember exacty) and a lvl 75ish rooted me. I'm not saying give the 75 no chance but simply illustrating that i believe NR should be looked into and tested.

Snarf the issue of rooting a high class and then getting many to take him down is a difficult one. To be honest in some ways i like the idea of a team working togetther and taking down a high class this way, that there organisation and team work will win the day. On the other hand i will be mightly pissed when/if it happens to me Perhaps should have the oppurtunity to resist every 10s root is active or sumthing, rather than just 1 at the beginning. Again not a problem with a simple solution.

/mindless drivvle ends

Er me