Lose 50% damage, keep caps in, double everyone's HP
Lose 50% damage, keep caps in, double everyone's HP
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Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.
You just dun get it! Nobody will paid for a pure pvp mmorpg, well expect some underage kids who has nothing to do but play game all days.Originally posted by Dragonfly
my company is working on a mmorpg. im the brains behind the project. Its called "Xtreme Pedestrian". Its a hard core pvp game. you can be a traffic cop, dog walker, carraige pusher, business man, bum, old lady, and punk kid. dog walkers and carraige pushers could be considered a pet class and old ladies the nuke class. were expecting it to be a big hit.
As for this issue, just check if the previous damage was done by a player, if yes then heal/=2.
It's just not that simple (not even close!).Originally posted by Leumas
As for this issue, just check if the previous damage was done by a player, if yes then heal/=2.
Look at the logic (this is probably a simplistic view of how Funcom does it):
For figuring out how to apply damage in PvP is easy:
PlayerA is taking damage (this assumes a hit was already approved), so you take the logic and figure out how much:
1) Calculate damage based on weapon used, crit or non-crit, AC of PlayerA, etc... (standard fancy damage calculation)
2) *then* figure out where damage came from (Player or NPC). If from player, take that damage and run through PvP reduction (divide damage by 2, and if Crit, make sure it's below 1/4 opponents total healt (or is it 1/3?)).
3) Apply damage by reducing players health.
After 3, most likely all information about damage applied will have been discarded, as it's not likely ever stored anywhere, because frankly, there was no reason to. All the game really cares about it at the end of that one shot, how much health does PlayerA have left, and how much ammo does PlayerB (the attacker) have left.
Now, take a case of what you said:
1) Damage is dealt to PlayerA. Now Funcom would have to keep an array of damage dealt to PlayerA over a period of time (say for simplicity, for as long as PlayerA is in a fight, although that introduces a lot of other problems). This is not likely done now, so that would require a major code change.
2) PlayerA attempts to heal him/herself. A lookup of all damage applied to PlayerA would have to be done to see if any of it was done by another player, if so, do you heal player damage by 50% and NPC damage by 100% (boy would that be ugly to figure out)? or do you heal everything by 50% if any player damage is found? How far back do you go? Just the current fight (what happens if someone is attacked at 50% health already from an NPC fight)? If so, doesn't work so well with team PvP. etc..
Bottom line is, I cannot see halving heals being a reasonable solution (it's really ugly to calculate), and I'm not saying that just because I'm a doc. I'd favor upping the damage over halving the heals, if there truly is an imbalance. (I don't PvP much, so I don't have a lot of first hand knowledge).
Just add a new boolean type var, set the default to 0. Everytime a person is damage by a player, set this boolean to true. When heal is apply, check if this var is true and the person is in combat.Originally posted by Valen
It's just not that simple (not even close!).
Look at the logic (this is probably a simplistic view of how Funcom does it):
For figuring out how to apply damage in PvP is easy:
PlayerA is taking damage (this assumes a hit was already approved), so you take the logic and figure out how much:
1) Calculate damage based on weapon used, crit or non-crit, AC of PlayerA, etc... (standard fancy damage calculation)
2) *then* figure out where damage came from (Player or NPC). If from player, take that damage and run through PvP reduction (divide damage by 2, and if Crit, make sure it's below 1/4 opponents total healt (or is it 1/3?)).
3) Apply damage by reducing players health.
After 3, most likely all information about damage applied will have been discarded, as it's not likely ever stored anywhere, because frankly, there was no reason to. All the game really cares about it at the end of that one shot, how much health does PlayerA have left, and how much ammo does PlayerB (the attacker) have left.
To restore the default value, everytime a mob done damage to a player or that particular player are no longer engage in combat, set the value to 0. Just how hard is that? Rethink the possibility bf you flame me for not knowing a shi*.
BTW, where you buy your degree?
Last edited by Leumas; Apr 4th, 2002 at 08:09:30.
Why don't you go over to Norway, ransack and destroy the FC offices, steal the code, then come back to where-ever your from, and fix the code yourself. It'd probably be faster, and I'm sure it wouldn't take long to ransack FC's officies...I mean, its just an igloo, right?
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The question is...Why should I? You know, offering a possible solution to a problem and actually working to solve a problem is two different things. And, which part of my post did I claim I know everything?
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Yep, said the same thing myself a bunch of times, funcom said they were against it because it would unbalance PVM (translation: we are too lazy to fix PVM or anything, so up yours, and please enjoy or messed up system).Originally posted by MiKEBoND
Lose 50% damage, keep caps in, double everyone's HP
It would be the easiest solution, but crits will still need to be looked at no matter what, their frequency is WAY too high.
Heh...not sure how you came to the conclusion that my post was a flame. Posting a counterpoint to your argument is not a flame, it's an opposing view.Originally posted by Leumas
Just how hard is that? Rethink the possibility bf you flame me for not knowing a shi*.
BTW, where you buy your degree?
But, seeing how you want to turn this into a flame instead of an intelligent conversation, I'm not going to bother responding about all the holes I see in the boolean variable solution.
Instead I think I'll head back to my street corner and beg for change so I can buy a new degree.
Post the holes, I dare you.
It's just not that simple (not even close!).
Of couse this is not a flame, its a good way of starting an int dicussion.
/sarcasm off
Last edited by Leumas; Apr 4th, 2002 at 17:52:34.
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50% reduced effect has allready been implemented on nukes. A nuke, heal and any other nano program modifies properties on the target. What exactly makes you think that a heal is special and alltogether different from a nuke? They both do the same thing, only nuke is negative and heal is positive.
phonokol - geremi - dousk - matica [apoc]
Nukes are executed against hostile targets ... if target = player, divide by 2, nothing more required. You'll notice that if you nuke or DoT yourself, you take half damage as well, even if your standing in a shop minding your own business.Originally posted by Matica
50% reduced effect has allready been implemented on nukes. A nuke, heal and any other nano program modifies properties on the target. What exactly makes you think that a heal is special and alltogether different from a nuke? They both do the same thing, only nuke is negative and heal is positive.
Heals are executed against friendly players ... if target = player, well....we have to figure out if player is/was in PvP fight first, in otherwords, the target alone is no longer sufficient information to say divide by 2.
Basically, the fact one is a hostile action and the other is a friendly action, is what causes the big difference.
Valen, Would you stop assuming things here? You have never saw the actual code. Yet you speak as if you understand truely how things work. Based on what? Your own observation? Give me a break!
Besides, you a doctor. You will do everything to remain your unfair advantage in PVP.
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I don't see any difference at all. Divide by 2 if the player is engaged in a pvp fight. If you execute a nuke on yourself you are actually in a pvp fight :POriginally posted by Valen
Nukes are executed against hostile targets ... if target = player, divide by 2, nothing more required. You'll notice that if you nuke or DoT yourself, you take half damage as well, even if your standing in a shop minding your own business.
Heals are executed against friendly players ... if target = player, well....we have to figure out if player is/was in PvP fight first, in otherwords, the target alone is no longer sufficient information to say divide by 2.
Basically, the fact one is a hostile action and the other is a friendly action, is what causes the big difference.
phonokol - geremi - dousk - matica [apoc]
Based on having coded things like this 10 years ago. I may be rusty with the code (I'm a systems/networking guy now, not a developer anymore), but I'm just talking about the simple logic of figuring out if you're in a PvP fight or not. This isn't rocket science, and I'm not claiming to be an expert (even if I do come off strong at times).Originally posted by Leumas
Valen, Would you stop assuming things here? You have never saw the actual code. Yet you speak as if you understand truely how things work. Based on what? Your own observation? Give me a break!
Maybe Funcom has some magical formula for easily determining you are in a PvP fight, and 50% heals would be simple, but I highly doubt that based on the simple observation of how they implemented 50% damage. But we will never know for sure unless Funcom themselves respond (but don't hold your breath on that one).
I love how everyone just assumes that. Because I'm a doctor I can't have an opposing opinion? Besides, I didn't say I'm against 50% heals. I'm just saying I don't believe can be realistically done well, and personally think any 50% heal solution would be more of a band-aid, and that the PvP system needs a better look as a whole. If you go with something as simple as a boolean var, that can be exploited pretty easily (get out of a fight for a moment, you have 100% heals, attack a mob while in a fight, you could be at 100% heals, have a PvPer attack you while fighting a mob, then you might only be able to do 50% heals against the mob damage and be guaranteed death...say hello to ganking hunting parties, etc....).Besides, you a doctor. You will do everything to remain your unfair advantage in PVP.
Btw, anyone who's seen my doc PvP can attest that 100% heals don't help me much, I die anyway.
But that is the difference. If you nuke someone, you don't have to see if they are in a PvP fight, because that action *is* PvP. If you heal someone *then* you also have to figure out if they are in a PvP fight (because a heal is *not* a PvP action, it's a reaction to one).Originally posted by MaticaI don't see any difference at all. Divide by 2 if the player is engaged in a pvp fight. If you execute a nuke on yourself you are actually in a pvp fight :P
But anyway, no I'm not the expert, only Funcom knows for sure what would be required. I'm only basing my opinions off my personal experiences.
Based on the previous solution (The array of damage crap) you have offer, I highly doubt that you are once a programmer. So, forgive me for not believe in such a obvious troll.Originally posted by Valen
Based on having coded things like this 10 years ago. I may be rusty with the code (I'm a systems/networking guy now, not a developer anymore), but I'm just talking about the simple logic of figuring out if you're in a PvP fight or not. This isn't rocket science, and I'm not claiming to be an expert (even if I do come off strong at times).
If indeed I was wrong, and you were a programmer after all. Then, I think you might match what my signature describe.
Last edited by Leumas; Apr 8th, 2002 at 10:02:36.
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Its alot difference in damage and heal. What if the doc is engaged in pvp and pvm at the same time, got a DoT from a NPC etc?Originally posted by Matica
I don't see any difference at all. Divide by 2 if the player is engaged in a pvp fight. If you execute a nuke on yourself you are actually in a pvp fight :P
Maybe if they flag health that done by players. And all health wich are reduced by a player needs twice as much to heal...
But i still think its better to remove the 50% damage and double our hp... It should make single play a bit easier too.
Lona
Techno-Mage
No, doubling everyone's hp isn't the answer.
They'd up the mobs which are a wee bit overpowered already...
Who cares about Docs that can PvP.
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There are waay too many factors involved to make Healing 50% too, especially if it's in a zone with PvP and PvM taking place. Sure, it's simple to say "If target player is engaged in PvP, heals are 50%", but... how do we define "engaged in PvP". Attacked by another player, or has actually initiated an attack. The latter would obviously be PvP, but the former leads us to some problems.
Say a group are attacking some rather dangerous beast in a PvP zone. The Doctor is healing the tank, and all is well. Now a level 75 player of an opposing faction wanders up to the tank and starts hitting him with a banjo. If the tank is then in PvP combat as defined by the rules, the Doctor's heals are now only healing half of what they were before. This is far too unpredictable and haphazard. Now, of course, nobody would PvP with a banjo
Another possible method would be to tally 'PvP damage' and 'PvM' damage as different totals (internally of course, not having two HP bars
And then we have the Complete heal nanos. What about those? Should they only restore the target to 50% health
Making Healing 50% is such a horrendously complicated proposition that it could never satisfy everybody. It'd make far more sense to find a way to eliminate the need for 50% damage in PvP. That way there won't be any need to demand 50% healing.
And yes, though I am a Doc, I don't PvP myself... as anybody's who's met me in-game knows
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