Docs and 50% - Not ever gonna happen

**______canadian bacon** · Feb 24th, 2002, 12:07:43

Simple fact from a programmers prospective. If funcom uses the system I assume they do, then implementing the 50% damage was simple, they just did:

if(target=="player") dmg_output()/50

Now that works fine because they have the "player" tag defined as another player object. The problem with 50% heals is, ruh oh, they can't just enter if target is player do 50% heal... the target is ALWAYS player, hense nerfing all heals PvM and PvP. And being someone who is working on another mmorpg project for a company let me tell you, if the engine is much like the ones i've seen then making a zone specific healing system would be an ENORMOUS hassle. Not to mention if they say in 25% or 0% zones only is healing halved, what about all the places you huntin 25%? or what about PW and DAV? Sorry the code doesn't click. And from what I understand you can't have a variable change so that if you are in combat it will instantly change the potency of your heals then change back to 100% as soon as you exit combat.

Changing the heal system is near impossible from a programming perspective, I have just realized this and asking funcom to change it (which they never would im glad) would probably result in a 6 month delay before our next patch, or longer :/

So please lets sotp discussing it altogether. Ask for 100% back if you wish, but healing will NEVER be changed, trust me.

**_______________Snarf** · Feb 24th, 2002, 18:17:18

Changing the heal system is near impossible from a programming perspective, I have just realized this and asking funcom to change it (which they never would im glad) would probably result in a 6 month delay before our next patch, or longer :/

Godamn you weenies who talk about implementation bug me. First off, how the hell would you know how difficult it would be to implement without seeing the code?

A solution to the problem if the following info is known (which it should be):

if( targettype == "player" && inFight == 1 && typetargetYouAreFighting == "player")
totalheal=totalheal/2

It says that if you are currently fighting a player and the target of your heal is a player, divide your heals.

Snarf.

**Whiterrabbit** · Feb 24th, 2002, 18:22:25

at least my java / c sucks ass, but isnt that code saying that if you are fighting another player then you can only heal THAT player by half normal?

damn you! you edited!!!

i guess you spotted that one as well

**_______________Snarf** · Feb 24th, 2002, 18:30:55

lol yep, read it myself and it made no sense. better now

**_______________Garzu** · Feb 24th, 2002, 20:22:03

Originally posted by Snarf

Godamn you weenies who talk about implementation bug me. First off, how the hell would you know how difficult it would be to implement without seeing the code?

A solution to the problem if the following info is known (which it should be):

if( targettype == "player" && inFight == 1 && typetargetYouAreFighting == "player")
totalheal=totalheal/2

It says that if you are currently fighting a player and the target of your heal is a player, divide your heals.

Snarf.

/me is copying and pasting for later use

**______canadian bacon** · Feb 25th, 2002, 03:37:03

As I mentioned in the original post, if they are using the same engine we are basing ours from which as far as I know is the same, then it is something that would take a LOT more than the little line of generic code you posted. Unless you work for Funcom, verant, OSI or a company working on a similar game, dont pretend because you know some basic languages you can make assumptions, trust me, there are so many complications branching from the formula it's never going to make it to funcoms plate and I don't blame them. And no I'm not a doc if you look back you can see that I posted quite the flame stating i support 50% heals. This is just from a serious perspective I post this, so keep any hostile comments away :/

**__________Turbulence** · Feb 25th, 2002, 04:19:32

LOL What MMORPG would you currently be working on...Barney's Big Adventure?

**_______________Snarf** · Feb 25th, 2002, 07:56:54

> And being someone who is working on another mmorpg project for a company let me tell you

He's working on stat-builder

**______canadian bacon** · Feb 25th, 2002, 23:32:19

The software company i work for is currently producing a mmorpg product. If you're all to childish to understand that other people who play the game have real jobs, then you are more pathetic then I originally thought. But whats th epoint in explaining anything to you people, you'll just scoff and say dumb things like "barneys adventure" and "hes making a stat builder".

Good day children

**_______________Sjoko** · Feb 26th, 2002, 00:35:10

Originally posted by whiteaw
The software company i work for is currently producing a mmorpg product.

I'm serious and curious, what company and title ?

**________senatorjesse** · Feb 26th, 2002, 01:39:19

The only thing wrong With snarf's method would be that if you, the doc were currently not engaged in combat, heals would still be 100%, so a check on both sides should be made. For the target of the heal and the healer, if neither is fighting a player, then the heal would go through 100%. Otherwise, it would go through 50%. If this was built into healing spells in general, or any hit to heal check, then it would clean up all the loose ends like first aid, heal pets, mongo, etc...

If it's done half crappy, and I think with prescedent no one can expect us to not be skeptical, you may end up with HoT's still doing 100% but targetted single heals doing 50% or heal pets being "monsters" still healing 100% but everyone else doing 50%... which would make MP's all the more uber... but hey, they're ub3rg1mp3d already, so why not, right?
If Funcom is serious about keeping 50% damage and heal caps as part of their PvP system, they should alter the fundamental way that damage is dealt and health is restored. Every time you see Hit to Health in the hackersquest db, that's when the player flag should be checked.

**Anthem2k** · Mar 27th, 2002, 02:07:05

OMG OMG OMG
heres an idea stop and listen to what the guy is saying

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-- Ok continue flaming... ---
--- It's what everyone -----
--- Likes to do anyeway ---
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**____________eleetist** · Mar 27th, 2002, 16:36:49

Originally posted by senatorjesse
The only thing wrong With snarf's method would be that if you, the doc were currently not engaged in combat, heals would still be 100%, so a check on both sides should be made. For the target of the heal and the healer, if neither is fighting a player, then the heal would go through 100%. Otherwise, it would go through 50%. If this was built into healing spells in general, or any hit to heal check, then it would clean up all the loose ends like first aid, heal pets, mongo, etc...

If it's done half crappy, and I think with prescedent no one can expect us to not be skeptical, you may end up with HoT's still doing 100% but targetted single heals doing 50% or heal pets being "monsters" still healing 100% but everyone else doing 50%... which would make MP's all the more uber... but hey, they're ub3rg1mp3d already, so why not, right?
If Funcom is serious about keeping 50% damage and heal caps as part of their PvP system, they should alter the fundamental way that damage is dealt and health is restored. Every time you see Hit to Health in the hackersquest db, that's when the player flag should be checked.

It would need to be, the target, the healer, or any member of the team that they are on. And they already have a check on Team Combat, since you can't recruit a player while team is in combat

**gnuman** · Mar 27th, 2002, 16:57:23

How about if fighting a mob and getting attacked by a player? Should heals then be 50% also? Or how about teamheals? Should they be 50% if the healer is attacked, should it be 50% if any on the team is attacked? Should first aids be 50%?

This isn't just as simple as it sounds.

**____________eleetist** · Mar 27th, 2002, 19:15:45

Originally posted by Noer
How about if fighting a mob and getting attacked by a player? Should heals then be 50% also? Or how about teamheals? Should they be 50% if the healer is attacked, should it be 50% if any on the team is attacked? Should first aids be 50%?

This isn't just as simple as it sounds.

The other reason it will just lead to other problems is that as soon as you limit heals, then Shields will be ridiculously overpowered and everyone (who doesn't have them) will ask for shields to be at 50%.

I support no 50% damage... if you are trying to avoid 1 shot kills then keep the 40% cap...

The game was completely shifted from release, when he with the best specials wins... to current, he with the best heals wins... or at least in most cases is most likely to win if both players are well equipped.

**_______________Valen** · Mar 27th, 2002, 23:31:34

Yea, I brought this up a few weeks ago. It particularly gets really tricky if the doctor is involved in a fight with a player and a mob at the same time (and provides some exploit potential), as well as teams that are in fights (lotta checks).

Code aside, just the logic gets very complex.

Much easier logic to determine "target damage against player", as opposed to "is a player currently attacking anyone in the group, and is a mob attacking anyone in the group at the same time".

If you don't get my point.... if you ignore mobs, a player will wipe out a team currently in combat with red mobs by attacking the team (heals go to 50%). If you count mobs and keep 100%, someone in the team is gonna attack a mob to get heals to 100% anytime you are attacked.

Same goes for 1 on 1, just less checks.

**xbmspec** · Mar 28th, 2002, 02:16:12

Half the heals and their grand total healing power is down right
destoryed. They'd be lucky to get off a 600 HP heal, at lv120
People do 1000 damage to player's anyway.

Half Healing
Half Costs
Half First Aid
Half Mongo
Half Shield Dur
Half Null
Half Dmg Deflected By Shields
Half Debuffs
Half Debuffs lengths
Half Fixer Run speed

And what are we left with? yelch.

**_______________Airri** · Apr 2nd, 2002, 16:28:22

...

Half MK
Half Humi
Half UVC
Half HP Buffs

and so on...

btw... What is so bad on Heals.. any Trader, MP and tata... Enforcer can easly kill a Doc and during the time the heal needs to cast, a Healer cannot shoot so the heal MUST heal significantly more, then the damage the Healer gets in this time. Otherwise he can only heal or fight in pvp, not both what he is supposed to do.

Thinking before whining...

Airri

**_______________Garzu** · Apr 3rd, 2002, 02:04:47

Who cares really, we need the same rules for pvm as for pvp. How they do it, I dont care at all. But to hope for a change is stupid, we cant even get an official comment from FC on it, or on anything at all...

**___________Dragonfly** · Apr 3rd, 2002, 02:21:13

my company is working on a mmorpg. im the brains behind the project. Its called "Xtreme Pedestrian". Its a hard core pvp game. you can be a traffic cop, dog walker, carraige pusher, business man, bum, old lady, and punk kid. dog walkers and carraige pushers could be considered a pet class and old ladies the nuke class. were expecting it to be a big hit.

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Docs and 50% - Not ever gonna happen

im no code wizz

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