Attn: COSMIK (Fixer idea you might find interesting)

[___________Evilspork]

Originally posted by Tanshanya
Im a programmer by trade...

What? There's a Programming tradeskill? Huh... maybe you mean Nano Programming?

I do agree though with what some others said, in that the modifications should be more based on B&E skill like the MCS, and less on the true tradeskills. But still keep a tradeskill requirement in there, so that when you say you have one of these modifications it actually MEANS something.

The one and (thankfully) only,

LafinJack

The Twelfth Commandment: Thou Shalt Not... Hesitate

[_____________Yureiko]

I agree with Solidsilver and Slyyk, leave the building to the engineer and we'll keep on hacking. When my engineer partner, Trosida, made my chem mausser, he didn't hack it. I did.

I break into the doors, the chests, and disarm traps. Give him hacked doctor blister packs (cuz his treament is higher than mine.)

I find implant parts because I can get around faster than he (not that he doesn't search too.) And I get him out of place with team grid phreak.

Guess, Solid and I (Solid has asked Tros to make stuff too), come from the point of view that we don't need to build cuase we've got someone who can do it faster and better.

However, asking for our nanos, which are part of our getting places fast and hacking into the datanet identity, to be cheaper at the expense of some trade skills is not an insane idea.

It's not about mismanaging our IP. I don't stuff all my IP in doing damage. I stuff it into getting stuff like Team Grid Phreak. Working on getting Team Recless digitization or whatever it's really called and leech grid vector and the next heal over time after Falsify.

Fixers are a support class and I am proud of it. If I wanted to play an "in your face damage dealer" I certainly wouldn't play a fixer! And people like Solidsilver feel that way too.

I think a really cool fixer idea would be to give us Grid missions (mission in a grid environment ala Cyperpunk where we get to actually break ICE programs.) Or adding more hackable security features like working cameras or guns. (Anyone play System Shock 2???)

Checking the official description of fixers on the this site, I see that aside from calling fixers "jack of all trades" (which could be interpreted in many ways), there is no mention of trade SKILLS being important at all to a fixer.

Check it out!

As for the above suggestion, those are things fixers should NOT be able to do. That lies in the path of an engineer. The name "Fixer' is not about "fixing" items. It refers to fixing people up with items. Gettings goods. Not making them. Stealing, whatever.

And nothing the roiginal author suggests sounds like it COULD be based off B&E. It's strictly the trade skill. Sorry, to sound so rough but this is a pet peeve of mine and yes, it's because I don't like stepping on my engineer friend's toes and he doesn't like stepping on mine. So I don't build weapons and he doesn't break into things.

Give us more things to hack. Like Solid suggested somewhere (and I think I did too) how about hacking shop booths for lower prices? How about hacking into city nodes to see if there's even a shops that offer a certain item. (From within the grid.)

All sorts of things can be done that wouldn't take from the Engineer or the Trader (our legal brother?).

Now, wouldn't THAT be fun?

Yurieko
Level 55 fixer

"Engineers are a Fixer's best friend."

[______________Frimen]

I love the thought of using some of my trade skills in hacking. Sure have the main req as B&E, but for more advanced hacking a second req of Elec Eng or maybe even Mech Eng certainly wouldnt be unreasonable. As for IP distribution, well, sure its always tight, but there are always going to be choices to be made, and the more choices we have the more varied and interesting a class the fixer becomes.
Great ideas in this thread!

[engelstein]

Originally posted by Tanshanya
Depends again on how it is setup, and since you are a community member, not a "Developer" or "Game Designer" unless you have source access that you are not mentioning, pls leave the decisions on the flexability of the system to those that are.

I'm mostly basing my comment on the fact that a proposal that I vaguely recall seemed similar. The word relayed by Cosmik was, in effect, "We would have to rewrite the DB and we don't want to do that." I don't anything about how the AO database is formatted.

What I *do* know is that every single implant has its own item representation.

I'm not deciding the flexibility of the system. I'm commenting on its practicality. I sure as hell DO mean to rain on your parade (people say I'm too negative, and they're right. Just realized that.), and I would happily get in a pissing contest with you. Have fun coming up with ideas, but don't expect to see them implemented. I don't know how many community-originated ideas are implemented, but it's probably not many. (Remember Summon Ammo? I bet a lot of people use that.)

[_______________edict]

This is a fantastic idea!! I really want to thank the author for spending so much time putting the ideas together. I hope that someone from Funcom reads this and seriously thinks about some of the ideas!

Its got my vote, great stuff

[___________Obergeist]

All I can about this is that there are no true support classes. Every class is a combat class. FC has made noncombat tasks not worthwhile, so the only way to get the IPs to do all this nifty stuff will come from smacking a high level 'borg or doing a mission in BS.

To the orginally poster, soldiers are not the premium damage dealers, and you feel that you should do MORE damage then a trained killer that uses buffs that raise his/her attack rating by 60 or so more depending on weapon type? There are only three things that count in a fight: damage dealing, damage taking, and healing. Your hp count may not be as high BUT you have better evades then a soldier, you have better treatment then a soldier, and you have HoTs(expensive in IPs, I know, but at least you have that option). You also have the option of neting (run debuff) and running from the mob. Not exactly honorable, but better then dying. As for TMS, once it's up, can't use my taunt nanos to get that nasty mob off the doc, so there goes my healing.

Therefore, half the classes in this game are gimped by default.

Hacking items to make them open to modification and hacking shops is a interesting and highly unique idea to say the least. That gets my vote. And you're getting area burst. Soldiers have burst too you know. =P

In closing, don't mention soldiers as damage dealers unless you're talking 120+ with a crit buff. That annoys me to no end.

[Epicawesomesauce]

True, there is no other alternative to XP gaining other than fighting, but that doesn't mean that there is not such thing as a support class. Taking the idea of a "support" class literally (a few guys just standing around healing the main damage dealers) is a lil' extreme.

Despite the mismatches and faults of the various professions, the professions themselves can be broken up into two groups (which have already been established obviously); front-liners and the support. Really, you're only front-liners are the enforcers and soldiers, hence the idea that a front-liner or main damage dealer is the one who can last the longest against a mob and toss out the most damage. The rest of us (fixers included) probably couldn't last as long or deal out as much damage as the rest of us.

You might mention the engineers and MPs as heavy damage dealers and thus might want to lump them in with the soldiers. That may be true, but the MP or engy himself isn't going to last long against a mob alone, that's why he/she has the pet.

Being a support class isn't a bad thing. Fixers do good enough damage and have some abilities that can help out a group. There was a misconception in the early days by some of the first fixers that in PvP and other modes of battle we were soldiers with fast evades. I don't think I see any of those fixers around anymore and this misconception has somewhat died away recently. But what you have to understand is that when you break us down, we're nothing more than a rogue, a thief. Thus you have to treat us like one. The fixer is a digital cowboy, a hacker, etc. He's best put in the back of the battle most likely selling fenced goods to the other parts of the group.

But alas, that doesn't help us gain experience. Thus our main problem. But a nigh 60 in level, I seem to be doing alright.

[___________Obergeist]

Best support I've had comes in four forms.

1. Mission blitz, enforcer hp buff/fixer run buff/ nt Dark Movement/ soldier mirror=a born blitzer.
2.6 second grid, saved my beacon plenty of times.
3.Healing
4.Buffs I can't provide myself (hp buff, high ac buffs, crit buffs, etc)

Alas, the roles of a thief are limited (currently) to chests. Where's the frikkin' black market already? Why not hack shops?

To survive, you need to be specialized in at least two areas, damage dealing and something to offer other classes, healing, buffs, crowd control, or offer a service that is hard to come by, or flat out illegal (in terms of law that is).

I can see a trend, Fixers hack the item, Engies modify them, other classes(or said fixers) use them.

Just don't step on my toes and ask for more damage then me (which isn't that much to begin with since the ol' burst/fullauto nerf).

[Gromph]

This may be hard to implement depending on how NODROP works in the actual code but...

If these ideas were implemented it would be interesting if the fixer, and only the fixer who made the modifications, could pass the newly modified NODROP weapon one time and one time only. This would allow fixers to modify other weapons so that a Soldier could have a modified weapon as well. That would solve the soldiers outdamaging us problem as well as give us a new and interesting role in illegal modifications.

[___________Obergeist]

Just one question....

What's with the no drop idea? It's pointless. I don't even see the point of no drops. A level 6, could, in theory have a the lowest ql yalm with implants. And don't get me started on the "Unique" change that FC is going to patch in.

You're in control of the hacking, so the inital buyer/client/friend gets the weapon. What they do after that is up to them. I can understand the desire to make sure that these are tightly controled, but if somebody wants something bad enough, they'll find a way to get it.

[______________Ciprox]

Originally posted by Yurieko
I think a really cool fixer idea would be to give us Grid missions (mission in a grid environment ala Cyperpunk where we get to actually break ICE programs.) Or adding more hackable security features like working cameras or guns. (Anyone play System Shock 2???) [snip]

Give us more things to hack. Like Solid suggested somewhere (and I think I did too) how about hacking shop booths for lower prices? How about hacking into city nodes to see if there's even a shops that offer a certain item. (From within the grid.)

You mean these things aren't already in the game? Rats. (I expected them to be--but I'm not complaining, just wondering what the fixer can do). Also, what happens if a fixer is doing something illegal and gets caught? Gets sent to jail? (If that question calls for a spoiler nm). System Shock and SS2 ROCK, BTW.

[Whiterrabbit]

i know what it was like when i started, i expected so much more to be implemented... i was disappointed. but, there is a lot of stuff there which is cool... the remaineder, we have to wait for

[Gromph]

Originally posted by Obergeist

You're in control of the hacking, so the inital buyer/client/friend gets the weapon. What they do after that is up to them.

Upon reflection I have to agree with you Obergeist. The MCS is more powerful than the MPS (at the same ql) and nothing changes in its status so why not leave out the NODROP change? I think flagging it as illegal and making some penalty for it would be interesting though.

As for NODROP in general, although it can't be rationalized IRL, I think it needs to be in place for game mechanics.


-Gaijin

[___________Obergeist]

Hmmm... I think an Illegal status would be more interesting. OT, or the ICC wouldn't want the citizens of Rubi-ka running around with modified weapons, due to copyrighting laws, safety reasons, etc. This could put a unique spin on things, such as de-equiping a MCS in a city to avoid being arrested (ie attacked by guards).

As for no drops, I think those should remain items such as Neleb's robe, the modified HUD in TRL, etc. They are prizes that you earned (or were in a good enough team to survive). To make player created no drops would be a pain, who would benefit from it?

Also, there should be at least one item in each server that has no duplicates, is very valuable, and has isn't a no drop. The catch would be that if you die, EVEN if it was in your bank, it'd pass on to a mob for a player to loot. To keep people from making a newbie and keeping it on said newbie, if the item is inactive for a period of time, it moves on. Just a thought...

[Cosmik]

Oooh boy. Some sweet ideas here. I'll pass them onto the designers now (as well as the whole thread) and see if I can get some feedback for you all as well.

[________________Crin]

/me falls on floor

Cosmik, you care. You really care.

/me eyes start to well up with tears of joy

[________________7084]

He loves us, he really loves us! *dreams*

[bamma]

Thanks for checking this out cosmik . Any updates on what they think of it?

[_____________Yureiko]

"True, there is no other alternative to XP gaining other than fighting,..." - solidSilver

Well, yes there is, but it's a lot slower, nad to be able to use B&E and trap disarm frequently you have to be in a mission.

"Oooh boy. Some sweet ideas here. I'll pass them onto the designers now (as well as the whole thread) and see if I can get some feedback for you all as well." - Cosmik

Here's hoping, Cosmik, that the "sweet ideas" are NOT the ones using trade skills. But are the ones that keep fixers in the original idea of fixers. (You know "Fixers" fixing people up with stuff and being masters of the Grid, and NOT "fixing" stuff.)

Give us some greenish nanos skills and drop the trade skills and I'll be happy. I know a lot people say, let's just make due with what we have, but you know. If you REALLY are unhappy you have these skills and don;t know what to do with them say: I'd rather have green nanos so I can use the really cool stuff you, the pople at FunCom, have already given us Fixers. By cool stuff, I obviously mean the Nanos.)

[Epicawesomesauce]

Yeah, I forgot about traps and lockpicks. I get 500+ for picking a lock now and 2000+ for a trap. Sometimes trap disarming gives me more XP than killing a mob. But still, killing mobs causes XP to come faster than anything B&E based. But its a nice added bonus.

And yes, Cosmik, don't make our life any harder than it is by turning us into a semi-engineer.