Here you can post your pvp experience against doctors, and when you last killed one

[______________Takuan]

Garzu
Bro
Guildie

You have to be kidding me. Your asking to have insta kills again with 100% damage. With 50% healing and shields/roots/debuffs at 100% your asking to have the few classes that are good now be even better and the classes that suck be worse. I can't figure out how this is in the least bit logical. It sounds like you just want NT's to be the Uber PVP class and all healers/melee easy kills. This is why Sent and I argue with you over this.

Now the only way this works at all IMHO is to make roots and nano attacks resistable and root break the first time you take damage (which they currently do not). Make casters interruptable (which they currently are not). Make crit buffs MA only period. Take away the ability to crit every other shot and nano's interruptable/resistable and I completely agree that damage should be 100% again.

If they did all these things they wouldn't even have to fix MA's or rider wielding advent's for PVP/PVM we would already be fixed.

[_______________Fryli]

Originally posted by Garzu


100/40 % for both healing and dmg will do the job. At the same time crits should get a big nerf in PvP.

Hehe, i have problems believe what i'm reading, u wan't 100/40 dmg with critts nerfed??? hahahahahah, only profession that would have GREAT advantage from that is NT's with nukes that do 100/40 dmg all the time and u will only need 3 nukes to kill anyone every time!

And now we propose same rules for healing as for damage.

Don't forget to add Nullity, shields, layer, ac-buffs, evade-buffs, runbuffs,debuffs ++++ into this math of yours.

100/40% healing and dmg will do the job.

Yes, so NT's dont face any treats in this game.

I dont see you teaming much...

Ohh, i do, just ask my guildt

I have no problem with seeing that the PvP rules are totally unbalanced atm, do you have problems with that? The rules benefits heals and debuffs, the dmg profs are put far behind, the top PvPers are now debuffers and healers (not soldier of course, and some enfs do well too, but the rest of us without healing, is the total loosers of this system)

Heh! what is balance??? is it when an nt cast 3 nukes hiding behind nullity for a 100% risk free kill???

U know stun still works pretty well in PvP, u should try use it.

[_____________EJ-Seth]

(I'm 35. Skip this post since i obviously have absolutley nothing to contribute.)

The problem with pvp in this game is that the damage dealers are designed for fast, instant damage, and if they dont kill you right away, they believe that they CANT kill you.

Nano techs, this is entirely true.. if they dont drop you fast, they're out of juice.

(Aimed shot always worked on players when I left the game... I dont know if you have to use hide or not now) Agents and soldiers are a little different... they use their high damage abilities... (AS/alpha) and their dmg output drops to almost nil in comparison.

Docs are the exact opposite.. They are currently built for surviving that initial burst... and then they are free to *****slap you. Or, since they have a little more flexibility, they can drop some dots (and most of their nanos) and get away from the opponents before they can do much dmg.

The only other successful pvpers are only viable because they shut everyone down... if you cant use your abilities, you cant defend against their meager skills.

martial artists WOULD be a decent pvper if they had some way to survive the inital outburst and keep people from running, and their puny heal formulas arent doing it...

the way to even the playfield, even a little, is to increase the fight times... (titles is another issue) with dmg reduced 50%, this has already taken a huge step forward (only reason I came back to the game. tired of people hitting me at 20 for 4k dmg when as an atrox enforcer I had a little less than 1k)

if you could find a way to draw out fight times into 5-20 second battles, where you had the option to rely on your skills, but where it wasnt a chore, it would encourage more people to pvp.

Scale back damage and healing for a quick fix, but if a little more work is put into it...

scale down mob difficulty. scale down damage overall. scale back healing overall. Reduce the effectiveness of overequipping.

(level 50 char with a lvl 50 weapon hits for 150 normal... same level 50 with the same weapon only lvl 200 hits for 180 normal...
Reduce effectiveness of buffs overall, or put level restrictions on buffs to lower the ability to overequip them to such an outrageous degree)

(now)
lvl 175 soldier attacks a 190 MA, alpha strikes, miraculously, the MA still stands. Soldier hits him with 2 standard shots, MA dies, unable to heal in time or close with the soldier.

(proposed)
lvl 175 soldier attacks a 190 MA, alpha strikes, MA stops, heals, charges, soldier attacks, dinks the MA for a few points of damage.. MA begins to beat the snot out of the soldier... Soldier uses 1st aid... soldier refreshes burst (or fling, or full auto. watch me care which actually refreshes first) and kills MA. barely.

MA decides next fight he'll actually pay attention.

Roots arent that much of an issue in prolongued fights, because 2 or 3 hits, even for a lot of dmg wont kill you... so you still get to be a participant. Grouping suddenly becomes viable to regain fast kills, and defend against other groups... pvp suddenly becomes something worth doing.

I figure that levels really dont mean much past 140. (or 120 even even) everyone has their "max" skill, and everything past that is just working on resists or fleshing out underdeveloped skills. (like evades) they may help you stay alive a bit longer, but they wont help you kill anything.

Titles are pretty much pointless atm. Its more a matter of who has ridden the curve of boosts and nerfs funcom has experimented with than any real skill. Skill gets lost in the mass somewhere. (dont mean to be overly insulting, sure there are people out there with skill. a lot of people out there just ganking at zones/grid terms getting around the grace period.)

I guess I'm done with my thoughts.

-Sayth

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Sjoko
I believe I have stated this before, but heck I'll try again.

Ok lets say healing gets the same change...

Lets take MAs and Adventurers that depend upon their healing, they will be crippled. I'll go so far as to saying that they will be useless.

I know there is a problem with MAs and Advs, personally i think Fixers is the worst... They need a boost in general, Many of the MAs I have spoken to (except Takuan ) liked the 100% dmg alot more than the current rules... But with my best nuke, I have problems with doing enough dmg to take down MAs... When MAs can heal almost as fast as I can nuke for dmg, something is very wrong in my opinion. But they will get a dmg boost next patch, hope that will help..

Originally posted by Sjoko
Docs will probably manage when they are higher level, but what about complete healing... It says heals the target to full health. Should it do so or not ? It basically heals for 10001 points... When I get lots of hp buffs I get far over 5k which it will heal for... what then ? then the description won't match....

I have some nano called Izgimmers Last Word, 5k-9k dmg, I would say that this nano takes away all of targets health, but it is now totally useless, cant feel sorry if other profs loose the effect of any of their nanos, I have lost as a result of the nerf

Originally posted by Sjoko
Yeah I know nukes have a description that says it should nuke for xxxx damage to xxxx damage...

Lets say we put the damage to 100% again.... Then I would be able to insta kill a lot of people. Not fair if you ask me...

No, not fair.. thats why we keep the 40% cap... maybe even make it 33%, then nobody will get instakilled by Flashpoint anymore... (I got one of those myself, so it would effect me too)

Originally posted by Sjoko
What I think makes pvp off balance is how long the roots lasts and how long debuffing will make you come. I mean I can use general debuffs, and those aren't even close to getting -1500 init debuffs... maxed I can get about 1100 to init with all the best buffs... Still leaves me to -300.... Since nano init isn't something that I'm very concerned with, casting mk takes 3-4 seconds longer...

The buffs/debuffs that breaks roots is getting fixed, that is a good thing, but I think the different professions should get a nano like the doc Epsilon Purge or Enfs Rage to break roots and remove hostile nanos.

Originally posted by Sjoko
Getting deprived and plundered leaves me to use the gun I hold in my hand.... How can I protect myself against something like that? Its no way in h... I can do it... So should all buffs be at 40/50% too ?

I as a NT and casters in general, docs also is hurt very bad by those debuffs, we are rendered totally useless, I was debuffed by 392 points in all skills a couple of days ago... the main problem with that kind of powerful debuffs, doc init debuff too, is that I have NEVER resisted any of them, I have resisted Nano shutdown, but NEVER a doc or trader debuff.... I think those debuffs should be easier resisted, and so far the Psy ability does not add to NR, needs to be fixed, but in general, debuffs AND roots should be easier to resist.

Originally posted by Sjoko
Think of it... there must be another way to correctly balance this so that debuffing helps, but won't let you neccesarily win the battle.

Yes, higher resist, shorter duration, and same rules for dmg as for heals.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Takuan
Garzu
Bro
Guildie

You have to be kidding me. Your asking to have insta kills again with 100% damage. With 50% healing and shields/roots/debuffs at 100% your asking to have the few classes that are good now be even better and the classes that suck be worse. I can't figure out how this is in the least bit logical. It sounds like you just want NT's to be the Uber PVP class and all healers/melee easy kills. This is why Sent and I argue with you over this.

Dmg should still be capped at 40%...

Originally posted by Takuan
Now the only way this works at all IMHO is to make roots and nano attacks resistable and root break the first time you take damage (which they currently do not). Make casters interruptable (which they currently are not). Make crit buffs MA only period. Take away the ability to crit every other shot and nano's interruptable/resistable and I completely agree that damage should be 100% again.

Yeah, would help me alot if you started to chain resist my nukes...

Well, I guess we just dont agree with each other

Originally posted by Takuan
If they did all these things they wouldn't even have to fix MA's or rider wielding advent's for PVP/PVM we would already be fixed.

Yeah, and alot of other profs totally gimped...

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Fryli
Heh! what is balance??? is it when an nt cast 3 nukes hiding behind nullity for a 100% risk free kill???

Care to explain how I can kill you in 19 secs with those rules?

Hehe, i have problems believe what i'm reading, u wan't 100/40 dmg with critts nerfed??? hahahahahah, only profession that would have GREAT advantage from that is NT's with nukes that do 100/40 dmg all the time and u will only need 3 nukes to kill anyone every time!

Oh, I will? If you cant stand 3 nukes, you got a problem.. You can heal cant you? You can run while my nullity is running, cant you?

Don't forget to add Nullity, shields, layer, ac-buffs, evade-buffs, runbuffs,debuffs ++++ into this math of yours.

Thats your math, not mine... In my math we only need same rules as for dmg, everything else stays as it is, except a higher resist and shorter duration against certain debuffs like init debuffs, roots, MPs debuffs and traders debuffs

Yes, so NT's dont face any treats in this game.

Just as the doc dont face any threats now?

Ohh, i do, just ask my guildt

You team PvP? THat cant be much...

U know stun still works pretty well in PvP, u should try use it

It can work when there is many ppl involved yes, but not 1 vs 1, but I have yet to be stunned myself, even though Claire tried like a mad girl 2 days ago...

Hope I made it difficult for you to quote me

[_______________Sjoko]

Wow, now I'm starting to like you Garzu, not in that way but you know what I mean (and I'm not shaking my eyebrows )

Good thing you understand that rooting and debuffing is a point to discuss.

Just an idea... How about increasing our hp by 10 fold, and keeping damage to 100%. And also increase hp on mobs you do in teams by 10 and those you solo by maybe 2.

What problems would that cause ? The difference between atrox and nanobreed would maybe be what it should be. Or lower the damage to 10%. (except for the healing) I don't think that would create any problems, or ? (just curious)

[_______________Fryli]

Originally posted by Garzu

Care to explain how I can kill you in 19 secs with those rules?

3 fast nukes for an average of 1.5k eatch, added with the dmg from ur Flashpoint...no need to heal....

Oh, I will? If you cant stand 3 nukes, you got a problem.. You can heal cant you? You can run while my nullity is running, cant you?

Well, stuned, debuffed and rooted....do i have to say more? Yes, u as an nt maybe resisit stun's a lot, but i don't even with my nanoresist maxed and bright + faded q200 plant i don't...

Thats your math, not mine... In my math we only need same rules as for dmg, everything else stays as it is, except a higher resist and shorter duration against certain debuffs like init debuffs, roots, MPs debuffs and traders debuffs

Yes, thats my math...bacause u forgot to add all the other "numbers" into this... as in...defensive abilities of other professions.... hmm son, do i see more nerf comming from u...

Just as the doc dont face any threats now?

Ohh, i face lots of treats, and i die pretty often too....

You team PvP? THat cant be much...

I doo , but 90% of the time i'm alone...when my guildt is doing xp...

It can work when there is many ppl involved yes, but not 1 vs 1, but I have yet to be stunned myself, even though Claire tried like a mad girl 2 days ago...

Well, nt's and Enforcers prolly have it easy with high nanoresist, me as a doc don't...

Hope I made it difficult for you to quote me

Nope, i found it more easy then to fight a good nt

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Fryli
3 fast nukes for an average of 1.5k eatch, added with the dmg from ur Flashpoint...no need to heal....

Init debuff will make me cast 1 nuke, not 3...

Originally posted by Fryli
Well, stuned, debuffed and rooted....do i have to say more? Yes, u as an nt maybe resisit stun's a lot, but i don't even with my nanoresist maxed and bright + faded q200 plant i don't...

I dont resist alot... I resisted a init debuff from Yense for the first time in my whole NT career yesterday , but he is lvl 116, so I am not that proud of it...

I got same imps as you, and got a green NR skill, I think I got 655 NR...

Stunned debuffed and rooted? As if I could do all that... stun got a 9 sec recharge... You can debuff to you know?

Originally posted by Fryli
Yes, thats my math...bacause u forgot to add all the other "numbers" into this... as in...defensive abilities of other professions.... hmm son, do i see more nerf comming from u...

My dear mother, I dont forget, I say we dont need... and I say FC cant do it all... to bring more balance in pvp, we just need same rules for dmg as for heals, that is more than enough, there are other issues too, but not even close to what you suggest.

Originally posted by Fryli
Ohh, i face lots of treats, and i die pretty often too....

1 vs 1? Nah, I dont think you die alot against one opponent.

Originally posted by Fryli
I doo , but 90% of the time i'm alone...when my guildt is doing xp...

Well, exactly, you are alot alone, fighting against the odds against multiple opponents, that is currently the only challenge for you, no fun I guess to fight 1 vs 1 when you always win...

Originally posted by Fryli
Well, nt's and Enforcers prolly have it easy with high nanoresist, me as a doc don't...

I do have a really hard time with NR... Enfs I believe is the only prof with reliable NR.

Originally posted by Fryli
Nope, i found it more easy then to fight a good nt

Well, then it must have been really easy...

[_______________Sjoko]

I have now beaten a doc, that was in fact many levels higher than me.

So, its doable, you just have to figure out how

[_______________Garzu]

Tell me your "tactics" then... could it have been MK + alpha ?

Yes, I admit, I personally think soldiers is even harder to take down than docs...

Root must be a side effect of MK

[_______________Sjoko]

Originally posted by Garzu
Tell me your "tactics" then... could it have been MK + alpha ?

Yes, I admit, I personally think soldiers is even harder to take down than docs...

Root must be a side effect of MK

My tactic wasn't alpha strike at all, I used 1 gun, never switched. Yeah I was lucky and got 4 crits in a row, but it still was possible.

As I said in a different thread... NT uses shields for defence while a soldier uses it for offence. How can a soldier be offensive when you not only get nano skills inoperable for 2 minutes you also have to stand in one spot for the duration of it.

Come on, you just want that nerf so you don't have to use root and just step in and out of the view as you please.

[______________Blanch]

Drsin999 in 2ho
Send Pet - Dominate Bio - MQ - Fling - Aim shot - regular shot - CoC- regular shot dead

Fryli in 2ho
all remember is zoning back forth till one got upper hand other would zone

Nessicity in PW(Sabulum)
think was lv 115 at time. critical 3 times I died

[___________Obergeist]

Semi-twinked MA, 16 in Tir area against, um... hmmm Dochottie (I think). I'm reasonably certain she was twinked out, vector, senpai coat, etc. I think the only advantage I had in this fight was that I had the 30 token board at the time. Maxed evades(not implanted at the time though) including duck.

I had the next MA heal above Personal Healing(name ecapes me for now). I have a 90 ql attack of the snake. Fully buffed, my MA skill is 155, and my brawling at 103 buffed.

Our first attacks are less then impressive.
She uses Tired limbs, but I still attack at a fairly decent clip.
She drops to about 60%, and heals fully. I hit about 70% and heal. I comment that this might take awhile.

The fight seems fairly close for a long while, then she gets a crit in and while I heal, gets another. MA goes down. I didn't get a chance to use Crash of Thunder or Dimach(would have been a waste unless I knew it was a sure thing).

Lesson, be more twinked then the other guy.

Or have lots of outside buffs.

Or even both.

PvP in a MMPRPG will never involve skill. It's all about equipment and buffs, most fights are over before real tactics can be used.