OMG, I am so tired of the whiny docs that always claim they are not gods of pvp.

[_______________Fryli]

Originally posted by Garzu


As you know, she is Novice now...

Grats with title Fryli

Bouth u and me Garzu know that the way i got that title sucks :-)
After getting my azz kicked 3 times two days ago and 5 times last nigh, when i got about 10 kills. My title came from fighting Syrah, and a soldier jumps in and alpha her down and he get the "kill" msg, i zone in and out of bunker and i'm Novice.

Cpl other ppl i know lost Novice after being 300-500 kills into Neo, so the titlesystem is all messed up. I tought i was pretty close to Rookie and now i'm a Novice. Does not make sence to me.

[assassimon]

Originally posted by Garzu


As you know, she is Novice now...

Grats with title Fryli

I know she is novice, I was with her.

and it really show how bad the title system work

She have been killed 8 times the last 2 days, and yesterday she just joined us in 2ho and attacked Syrah, she didn't get the kill but afew min later she was novice, without killing anyone

Syrah died 3 times yesterday without losing title

Dankman was novice for 2 months, killed 5 people 2 days ago, and lost novice title after one death.

Was also another soldier that got Novice yesterday and atleast 1 that got apprentice, not sure if it was 2.

only person that lost title was Sourstuff a DOC....


EDIT: I posted at same time as Fryli so I didn't see what she post before

[_______________Fryli]

Jacksr also lost his Apprentice and is back to rookie :-I

[assassimon]

Originally posted by Fryli
Jacksr also lost his Apprentice and is back to rookie :-I

Doh, so the only 2 that last title was docs?

How can it happend Garzu?!?!?!?!?!?

THEY ARE GODS! :P

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon


Doh, so the only 2 that last title was docs?

How can it happend Garzu?!?!?!?!?!?

THEY ARE GODS! :P

Rubi-Ka must be running out of pillow NT's for doctors to fight.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Fryli


Bouth u and me Garzu know that the way i got that title sucks :-)
After getting my azz kicked 3 times two days ago and 5 times last nigh, when i got about 10 kills. My title came from fighting Syrah, and a soldier jumps in and alpha her down and he get the "kill" msg, i zone in and out of bunker and i'm Novice.

Cpl other ppl i know lost Novice after being 300-500 kills into Neo, so the titlesystem is all messed up. I tought i was pretty close to Rookie and now i'm a Novice. Does not make sence to me.

Exactly, the title system is TOTALLY messed up!!! So to speak of titles when talking about power in PvP is more or less BS, even a MA can get Neophyte if he/she works hard enough for it, I can bet my ass (doubt anyone want it, but htats exactly why I do it ) that those Novices/Neophytes has been extremely cautious when it comes to dieing, always coming in numbers, and never attacks if outnumbered, if they do, they have MK running and fires their specials off and runs away... this I know many of the omnis do...

And doctors dieing... You are the first target to hit... With my flashpoint I got the kill of Jacksr yesterday , REVENGE, SWEET REVENGE , I felt so good after killing him that I got totally careless and got instakilled by Opiium 2 min later , I still feel good btw.

As far as Jacksr goes, every single time I have met him in a PVP area the last months, he has been GREATLY outnumbered, seems to me he likes to fight against the odds, and that he even got a title is an accomplishment. Jacksr took both me and Seoman at the same time alone...

Just look at Steffani, she hadnt done any pvp at all before 2 weeks ago, she is now Apprentice.

It is NOT difficult to take down a doc if you are 2 ppl with alphastrikes.

The problem with docs is when you are 1 vs 1... (or of course 2 NTs vs 1 doc... heh)

I have a suggestion, that will encourage team pvp. When in team, heal should be 100%, when solo heal should be 50%. Along with Azzazzimon's suggestion of buffs team only, I think team pvp will be much more attractive. And add some team pvp title would help alot also I think, even if many ppl claim titles doesnt mean anything, it makes you feel good, and you feel progress by advancing in the pvp ladder

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Garzu
The problem with docs is when you are 1 vs 1... (or of course 2 NTs vs 1 doc... heh)

No, this is a problem with everyone. Trying to balance PvP for 1 on 1 combat is an unimaginable fools quest. If you orientate the game toward team PvP then people can't say much since each side has the same races/professions to choose from. The again, since people can't help their complaining when they lose, if AO ever becomes a team PvP game, people will ***** about side specific equipment and PvP zone layout. Just watch.


P.S. I find it hard to believe that 2 NT's can't take down one doctor. Maybe if the 2 NT's fumbled 75% of their attacks. but as a norm .. no way.

[__________NicholaSix]

I'd like to see 50% healing and 50% damage, and christ, 50% everything else, or 100% for everything and maybe tighter caps, like 30% max damage.

But maybe just looking over crits will help alot. If crits were 25% as common as they are now, all this wouldn't make too much of a difference. Crits are a big part of the mess that is the current PVP system.

There is an issue with an NTs ability to do enough damage to equal level players with their existing nano pool when the target is a healer. I guess this could be addressed in other ways, offensive nanos could have half cost in PVP, and this would include debuffs, dots and so on, or if you move out of 40M range you could be made able to charge with your nano-kits (but not health kits), thus making rooting kind of useful. NTs now play close to zones so they can root, zone charge come out and attack again.

Anyway one exception creates the need for all these other exceptions that cascades into further exceptions.

Maybe no exceptions would be nice, 100% damage and tight caps. Heck I'd take 20% caps for 100% damage and 100% healing with a 40% cap on healing.

The current system discriminates againts people who can't de-buff (un-nurfed) and can't heal (un-nurfed) and those who's mainstay for damage is nano pool (nurfed).

[__________NicholaSix]

Originally posted by Dr. Sent


No, this is a problem with everyone. Trying to balance PvP for 1 on 1 combat is an unimaginable fools quest. If you orientate the game toward team PvP then people can't say much since each side has the same races/professions to choose from. The again, since people can't help their complaining when they lose, if AO ever becomes a team PvP game, people will ***** about side specific equipment and PvP zone layout. Just watch.

Well it's a pain to balance the classes but in a way it's not such a bad idea. In team competition games, and I'll use some CTF style games as an example, Team Fortress, Weapons Factory Arena, Fire Arms and other "class" based games, where players specialize in a given area, the amount of effort you need to exert to change classes in these games is minimal. If your team needs more defense you play a class geared toward defense, more offense you switch to a better offensive class.

In this game, however, there is an enormous amount of resistance if you want to play another class in competition. It's good to have symbiotic relationships between the classes, but at the same time it's good if most classes can stand on their own to some degree.

Anyway, the factions in this game will strive to make their class better regardless of common sense, which is what we all know and accept. Even though I have my own agenda, I can see the merits of others points of view. We really need to get more people interested in PVP. The first 5 months were a nightmare for keeping people interested in this aspect of the game. There were massive imbalances that have jaded people to PVP forever. Now I think the recent changes have missed some major problems with the system. The system needs to be fixed and some classes need to be improved so they can compete.

Engineers, MAs, Crats and advents need to be made viable PVP classes at high levels. Engys and crats need nanos that break roots on their pets, they don't have to be fast but they do have to work. If an engy sicks their pet on my soldier, I zone and zone right back then kill him. Tactics like this ruin the class for PVP and a simple fix like pets not following me through a zone would do wonders for the class.

Crits are crazy, the mechanics of combat need to be worked on. That would be a balance for the whole game, and the cost basis of damage to healing in nano is unfair.

All that being said, the nuances of how it's done, I don't care, getting more people into PVP is what I want. You are dreaming of TEAM PVP when in fact there really aren't enough people doing it at any one time, nor because of the whole gas thing, doing it in any organized way except for maybe the hit teams that go to aces and mort.

[assassimon]

Just look at Steffani, she hadnt done any pvp at all before 2 weeks ago, she is now Apprentice.

getting apprentice isn't very hard if you PvP alot..

and as Snarf said in another tread, she terminated as fast as she saw that she wouldn't win(no idea if she usually do this, but it would be a easy way not to lose kills...)

I count Steffani as a good friend, actually my only omni friend, so I mean nothing bad about her personally, but it's not THAT hard to get apprentice if you only go for title and don't care if you fight fair to get it..

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Dr. Sent
No, this is a problem with everyone. Trying to balance PvP for 1 on 1 combat is an unimaginable fools quest. If you orientate the game toward team PvP then people can't say much since each side has the same races/professions to choose from. The again, since people can't help their complaining when they lose, if AO ever becomes a team PvP game, people will ***** about side specific equipment and PvP zone layout. Just watch.

Yeah, well, if balance in 1 vs 1 is so impossible, why not get 100% dmg back, when all that "really counts" is team balance?

Originally posted by Dr. Sent
P.S. I find it hard to believe that 2 NT's can't take down one doctor. Maybe if the 2 NT's fumbled 75% of their attacks. but as a norm .. no way.

Well, i realize you dont like me much and dont trust me anymore after all my 100% dmg whining, but if you trust Seoman, he is in your guild you know, ask him... or ask Jacksr if you really want to know.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon


getting apprentice isn't very hard if you PvP alot..

and as Snarf said in another tread, she terminated as fast as she saw that she wouldn't win(no idea if she usually do this, but it would be a easy way not to lose kills...)

I count Steffani as a good friend, actually my only omni friend, so I mean nothing bad about her personally, but it's not THAT hard to get apprentice if you only go for title and don't care if you fight fair to get it..

No, exactly, cause titles does not mean ANYTHING in pvp =)

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by ULTRA1
I'd like to see 50% healing and 50% damage, and christ, 50% everything else, or 100% for everything and maybe tighter caps, like 30% max damage.

But maybe just looking over crits will help alot. If crits were 25% as common as they are now, all this wouldn't make too much of a difference. Crits are a big part of the mess that is the current PVP system.

There is an issue with an NTs ability to do enough damage to equal level players with their existing nano pool when the target is a healer. I guess this could be addressed in other ways, offensive nanos could have half cost in PVP, and this would include debuffs, dots and so on, or if you move out of 40M range you could be made able to charge with your nano-kits (but not health kits), thus making rooting kind of useful. NTs now play close to zones so they can root, zone charge come out and attack again.

Anyway one exception creates the need for all these other exceptions that cascades into further exceptions.

Maybe no exceptions would be nice, 100% damage and tight caps. Heck I'd take 20% caps for 100% damage and 100% healing with a 40% cap on healing.

The current system discriminates againts people who can't de-buff (un-nurfed) and can't heal (un-nurfed) and those who's mainstay for damage is nano pool (nurfed).

Very well said

[_______________Garzu]

What I really dislike is that some ppl think I whine aobut these things just so that I can instakill and be "uber" again... I honestly have a BIG problem with healing, and when I have a certain amont of dmg described in my nanos and the dmg gets 50% in pvp, not in pvm, My nukes no longer is in balance with healing. I do honestly think dmg should be more powerful than healing, if any of you fail to see that when my nukes suddenly do 50% dmg, and heals stays 100% is unbalanced, then ok, I cant do anything else but disagree.

Lets take docs, since they are the most against this, they can use same weapon as NTs, they got a base shotty IP cost of 12, while NTs got a cost of 15, we can then use same weapon, do the same dmg with it, and on top of it, the doc heals faster than I can nuke for dmg, I think this is unfair, you can disagree with me as much as you want, but damn, when my nukes gets 50%, halved... The game was balanced from the beggining with the dmg and heal as described, but to prevent instakills (which of course sucked big time) they had to nerf dmg as a quick fix, but now there is problems as a result of this, the original "balance" between dmg and heals is disturbed, and needs rebalancing, so something has to be done.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon
and as Snarf said in another tread, she terminated as fast as she saw that she wouldn't win(no idea if she usually do this, but it would be a easy way not to lose kills...)

I know Steffi a little...

I asked her specifically about this the same day I heard Snarf say it in the clan OOC in Mort, I asked "Is it true that you terminate when you get attacked by Snarf, and why do you do it?"

Her answer was: "It is becuase he exploits, I cant do anything when fighting him"

I said: "LOL, that is no exploit, it is stun... but dont worry, it is nerfed now, infact it is the quickest nerf in the history of AO, stuns lasted exactly 48 hours..."

She then said: "Oh, cause i really thought it was an exploit and had no chance and wouldnt let him get the kill etc.."

[_____________Federot]

Originally posted by Sredni
The only soldiers that are good at pvp are those around lvl 150 or higher. And All the other proffs out there use those few soldiers as a bludgeon to beat the soldier proff with.

Someone finally said it...exactly.

The only DOCs that are good at PvP are those around lvl 150+.

Drzand, Fryli, Jacksr, Drsent...etc. They are the HIGHEST docs on the server!

Calling for a nerf because of what they can do is highly illogical.

I play a 115 Doc, I've been mowed down by Hextorr, Garzu (x3), and EVERY other player I've fought.

I have a Freshman title...only because I got VERY lucky a few times while I was level 20th or so and had a good Vektor equipped.

My -681 Init debuff (highest I can cast for a LONG time), is a joke in PvP. Remember there are 2 lines of init debuffs...one has HUGE negative init, but breaks on the very first shot. The second has half the init debuff, but actually sticks on the target.

Garzu and EVERY other player I've fought post 75 has resisted my Init debuff.

Docs are uber in PvP....ya right. I think its more like those "PLAYERS" are uber...doesn't really matter what class they play...they would still be titled.

-Fed (aka Yense)

[__________SuupaSayen]

my doc hasn't won a single pvp fight since 13.0

[___________Obergeist]

Doc+loads of shotgun implants+wrangle+shotgun+crit buff+150 level=PvPer. It isn't the heals that get you.

It's the crits.