BAA vs. BORPACT

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Tifanyx


Opening up Omni-Tek shops to neutrals is another way of absorbing them. They might as well fill out the application if that happens.

I just can't follow your logic. Are you suggesting neutral sentiments and ideals are so weak a shopping trip on Omni Trade would be sufficient to subvert them? Are you suggestiong OT and Clan trade sanctions on Neutrals are a good thing for the neutrals? Is it not the case that if Omni opened its shops to Neutral, the Clans would be under a lot of pressure to do the same. How is that bad for Neutrals (other than it might draw them to try and visit Tir..oopps!)?

Savoy

[Vixentrox]

I'd prefer to see shops in both Omni AND Clan cities open to them. I think it should have been done long ago IMO.

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Vixentrox
I'd prefer to see shops in both Omni AND Clan cities open to them. I think it should have been done long ago IMO.

Absolutely, but someone has to make the first move and as with the Amnesty, I suspect it will fall on Omni Tek again to take the initiative, with the clans following suit a couple of weeks later. Then again you could suprise me, and that too would be a welcome surpise.

Savoy

[Duzytato]

Originally posted by Lankyjosh


just because u started neutral dos not mean u can voice the opinion of a neutral. U turned clan coz u were not neutral minded, so stop pretending u can preach for the neutrals.

I started neutral and was giving a very big helping hand from a member of the NLF but does that mean i pretend im in someway a neut. NO

Someone with an indentity crisis himself (LankyBill/PapaBear/LankyJosh) shouldn't be telling people how they can speak. First of all, you do not know the reasoning behind me becoming clan. I am still very much neutral minded.

However, I realized that Neutrals do not get the respect they deserve. The only way to change that was to fight the neutral fight under one of the two main banners. Around that time, I was beginning to hear voices. The voice turned out to be my uncle who was a member of Whisper's Edge. A neutral friendly clan guild. So I became a clanner and joined Whisper's Edge to be with my family.

Those are the ONLY reasons I am a clanner. So I still hold all the values of a neutral citizen. I just have a token board now.

I'm not pretending to be anything. I am who I am and thats all that I am. I am a supporter of BORPAC & the NLF. In alot of ways, I am STILL a member of the NLF.

-Tifanyx

[Duzytato]

Originally posted by Lankyjosh
why do u care?
ur a clanner?
neutrals can take care of themselves thats why they became neutral in the first place

You don't "become" neutral. You can start that way but you can NEVER go back. If you could, me thinks, there would be a much larger neutral population.

[Glarawyn]

Originally posted by Savoy

How is that bad for Neutrals (other than it might draw them to try and visit Tir..oopps!)?

I make it a point to wave hello to the Sentinals when ever I visit Tir, e****ally Steel and Fisk. Sure, I only wave hello (brawl to the back of their head)

I figure since they haven't managed to kill me as I run by, they need some target pratice.

[Duzytato]

Originally posted by Savoy


I just can't follow your logic. Are you suggesting neutral sentiments and ideals are so weak a shopping trip on Omni Trade would be sufficient to subvert them? Are you suggestiong OT and Clan trade sanctions on Neutrals are a good thing for the neutrals? Is it not the case that if Omni opened its shops to Neutral, the Clans would be under a lot of pressure to do the same. How is that bad for Neutrals (other than it might draw them to try and visit Tir..oopps!)?

Savoy

Ever since I was a neutral, all I ever heard was that I was just an employee of Omni-Tek but in denial. That irritated me. So I stuck to shopping and hanging out in Neutral only areas. Having Omni-Tek opening up shops to Neutrals would just further drive home that feeling. Neuts would resent clanners even more, because their shops aren't open to them. It would put Omni-Tek in a more favorable light. As a clanner that would be bad. As a former neutral, I see that as a tactic to assimilate Neutrals with them knowing it.

As Vix suggested in the post below yours, the ideal situation would be to open up all shops to Neutrals.

-Tifanyx

[Glarawyn]

Before we stray too far from the beaten path, does anyone know or does anyone part of BORPACT want to say who besides Nanomage Liberation Front and Desert Winds has joined the BORPACT?

[Dabblez]

The Neo-Luddite Movement is also a member of Borpac. They have a clan chapter, but I have it on good authority that an Omni based Luddite group will be making it appearance very soon.

Savoy

[Duzytato]

There was also another guild that joined, but it appears that the guild has since disbanded.. EvaOne was the leader of that guild but now it appears that EvaOne is an Applicant of MOTHER.

There are a few individual supporters of BORPAC, like myself & Dr. Tiny. As far as other supporters, I'm sure there is quite a few, but due to current political situtations they are remaining quiet so they do not ruffle any feathers.

But the topic of this thread was what should we do about BAA, not how many member orgs are part of BORPAC.

-Tifanyx

[Kobekatt]

Originally posted by Tifanyx


Someone with an indentity crisis himself (LankyBill/PapaBear/LankyJosh) shouldn't be telling people how they can speak. First of all, you do not know the reasoning behind me becoming clan. I am still very much neutral minded.

-Tifanyx

um their is no identity crisis. Before i went away to college i made and played the character lankybill, i gave that char to my brother in the mean time while i was at college i wrote on the forums under the name papa bear. Whilst at college some unfortunate things happened to bill whicch meant i had to start again. no biggy so i am now my original name josh =).

As for ur identity crisis u r clan. Yet you seem to think since you were once neutral u can speak for them. But that logic is incorrect, it would be similar to me saying i AM lankybill but i am not i simply WAS lankybill who WAS also neutral for some stage.

Similarly Tifanyx WAS Neutral.

As soon as u clicked on ur clan application form u became clan so stop pretending ur something your not

[______________Emiliy]

Lankyjosh, Tifanyx has a unique perspective and understanding of the neutrals. He was a neutral his entire life until recently, and was deeply involved in the affairs of the NLF and the neutral community. These are experiences that simply cannot be washed away into an abyss simply because he chose to represent the neutral community among the clans.

The world may be simplistically explained away as so "black and white" in the ranks of Omni-Tek, but among the clans it is quite different.

Back to the original (and intended) topic of this discussion, as a member of the clans, I maintain what I have said all along. If the theories postulated by the NLF and DW concerning notum depletion are correct, I fully support them in their endeavour to halt all mining. To do otherwise is barbaric, as you essentially condemn an entire race to torture and, inevitably, death.

However, as I have yet to be shown concrete proof to substantiate these theories, my position is that neither are good for Rubi-Ka. The BAA is an obvious political manoeuver to further work at Omni-Tek's ultimate goal of capturing the neutrals. BORPACT is beligerent, violent, and seeks to remedy pain and suffering by forcing further pain and suffering on others.

[Kobekatt]

Originally posted by Emiliy
Lankyjosh, Tifanyx has a unique perspective and understanding of the neutrals. He was a neutral his entire life until recently, and was deeply involved in the affairs of the NLF and the neutral community. These are experiences that simply cannot be washed away into an abyss simply because he chose to represent the neutral community among the clans.

The world may be simplistically explained away as so "black and white" in the ranks of Omni-Tek, but among the clans it is quite different.

Back to the original (and intended) topic of this discussion, as a member of the clans, I maintain what I have said all along. If the theories postulated by the NLF and DW concerning notum depletion are correct, I fully support them in their endeavour to halt all mining. To do otherwise is barbaric, as you essentially condemn an entire race to torture and, inevitably, death.

However, as I have yet to be shown concrete proof to substantiate these theories, my position is that neither are good for Rubi-Ka. The BAA is an obvious political manoeuver to further work at Omni-Tek's ultimate goal of capturing the neutrals. BORPACT is beligerent, violent, and seeks to remedy pain and suffering by forcing further pain and suffering on others.

A neutral is simply one who remains neutral to the opposing sides in a conflict, tifanyx has not done this and is therefor not neutral. By the way NLF is pro clan which makes them theologically also not neutral. Both technically and as a state of mind tifanyx at this stage in his character is not neutral and should not speak for them. And if he continues to do so ill take of my carbonum and start ordering neuts around to. The most important thing though is whether the neutrals can look after themselves or do they need tifanyx (the clans) to do it for them.
Let them decide not u or me

[Duzytato]

Originally posted by Lankyjosh

Similarly Tifanyx WAS Neutral.

As soon as u clicked on ur clan application form u became clan so stop pretending ur something your not

((OOC: That makes no sense.

Here is a real life example to illustrate how I am neutral even though I hold a clan membership:

When I was 12, I smoked a cigarette once. Haven't touched a cigarette since. Its been over 18 years. Am I a smoker? NO! In the world of Anarchy Online, things are alot more rigid. Basically like, smoker, non-smoker & anti-smoker. Well I smoked once, so I can never again be a non-smoker. So my choices are anti-smoker or smoker. Well, I could really care less if you smoke or not, so I'll join the smoker side. But I don't smoke.
))

I'm not "pretending" to be anything.


-Tifanyx

[Duzytato]

Originally posted by Lankyjosh


A neutral is simply one who remains neutral to the opposing sides in a conflict, tifanyx has not done this and is therefor not neutral. By the way NLF is pro clan which makes them theologically also not neutral. Both technically and as a state of mind tifanyx at this stage in his character is not neutral and should not speak for them. And if he continues to do so ill take of my carbonum and start ordering neuts around to. The most important thing though is whether the neutrals can look after themselves or do they need tifanyx (the clans) to do it for them.
Let them decide not u or me

I'm not ordering anyone around, or speaking AS a neutral. I am speaking AS myself.

[Boinky]

Originally posted by Tifanyx


Opening up Omni-Tek shops to neutrals is another way of absorbing them. They might as well fill out the application if that happens.

::imagines the possibilities in my head::

Omni-Tek Recruiter: Just sign on the dotted line and all your former woes as a Neutral will be long gone!

Boinky: Hmmm sounds pretty good to me, where's the pen?

Omni-Tek Recruiter: ::right here son::

Boinky: Done!

Omni-Tek General: OK great! Now get over there and MINE THAT NOTUM!!! Now Peon!!

Boinky: Well I thought I'd go to the Miir shop now...

Omni-Tek General: You can MINE THAT NOTUM or visit our Hospitality Prison - your choice

Boinky: Well I guess I'll Mine then..

Omni-Tek Voiceover: Omni-Tek is your friend - NO RUNNING!!

[Praecautus]

From the desk of Major McCovery
Leader of Desert Winds

The BAA is simply an Omni ploy to increase their profit margins and secure their pensions. They are having obvious military difficulties against the clans and so turn their sights towards the independents offering the hand of friendship but in reality it is but a finger of the claw of capitalism ((yes paraphrased from LOTR)). BAA is a simple attempt to increase mining and the associted problems, it will not secure the future well being of our home.

((nice work Swiftmind ))

[Ramiyana]

While scanning through these debates from my apartment in Borealis, I felt I should chime in to state a point about the Borpact and the "Official Stance" of the NLF.

/me takes another stim

But then I thought what better way to allow this point to seep through the hard shell skin of so many then to allow the great Queen Fleshreaper her self explain it in her own voice.

So after declassifying this underlying recording from the Borealis Pact rally held a few months back in the "Almighty ICC" <hic> I am pleased to present to you Queen Fleshreaper's speech.

NLF FILE #4658847 ((MP3 Player needed to listen))

Of course with a little advert thrown in. Have to pay bills some how nudge nudge wink wink

~Ramiyana

[Duzytato]

Originally posted by Ramiyana

NLF FILE #4658847 ((MP3 Player needed to listen))

All Citizens of Rubi-Ka please listen to the great speech by a great nanomage, Queen Fleshreaper. After you listen, decide for yourselves which is better for all of us, BAA or BORPAC!

((OOC: AO needs more dedicated RPers like Ramiyana & Fleshreaper. The announcement and the speech are brilliant pieces of RP work. You should at least give it a listen, even if you will never agree with the BORPAC. Good RP needs to be appreciated. So enjoy it.. Great Job Rami & Flesh!))

-Tifanyx

[______________Emiliy]

Originally posted by Tifanyx
((OOC: AO needs more dedicated RPers like Ramiyana & Fleshreaper. The announcement and the speech are brilliant pieces of RP work. You should at least give it a listen, even if you will never agree with the BORPAC. Good RP needs to be appreciated. So enjoy it.. Great Job Rami & Flesh!))

-Tifanyx

((Listened........and LOVED IT Awesome job!))